Revival of historical achievment points.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Vavume.8065" said:

> I'm just glad I'm not a new player coming into this game and finding out I can never catch up to veterans in AP, no matter how hard I try. The AP system in this game is a flawed, it's been a flawed since LS1 and when they removed the possibility of earning certain achievements, leaving a huge hole in the AP system. I think it's unlikely now that they will ever fix the issue.

 

Any progression system has this flaw. Haves vs Have-nots. But the main reason this issue is minimal in most games is how they correlate to power, and how that power is wielded against or in aid of other players. In most cases, progression has to be capped in order to make the goal of reaching tangible enough for a player to consider it worth pursuing. If there was no level cap, then you are simply progressing for Progression's sake, and can't really reap the benefits of reaching a goal you will never attain. But if you cap that progression, there is a moment of catharsis in reaching that goal; but depending on what benefits are gained from it, players will often demand more things to invest in, to make continued participation worthwhile. By metering this in cycle after cycle of moving the goal post, you can trap a player in an endless loop. So long as something is there to offer catharsis for their participation, you can stave off frustration and boredom.

 

Whats kind of changed over the years is the level of engagement verses the level of enjoyment. Over time (or may it always was like this), we're more engaged by games.... but we're not necessarily happier/enjoying playing them. And one significant, but no solely responsible element of this is rewards and the use of psychological reinforcement methods. On the one hand this kind of necessary, since games are based on rules, and those rules have to be taught to the player. But when taken further the way it has, External reward systems, accolades, and acknowledgement is now the driving force of our engagement. Simply completing a task is no longer enough.... we need overt motivation to do them, in order to satisfy our sense of achievement, efficiency, or sometimes both.

 

So if a puzzle was created where you intended to take a box to the top of mountain, and placed on button. The rules have taught you what you're supposed to do, and execute it with this in mind. At some point during this, you realize you can simply move on to the next level without finishing the task; which would signal this is an optional task, and have the choice to leave it or continue the ascent. You get to the top, and you place the box on the button, and nothing happens. How would you feel about that? Would you try to derive meaning from this to justify having done it? Having run into a hand full of unfinished (and/or accidental) jumping puzzles in the game, I know what I thought at the time.

 

Meaning gets assigned to everything, whether its intended to have it or not. But this starts to get complicated when its tangled up in our motivation and expectation that we must be rewarded for all of our efforts. AP and the rewards they give are not necessary to playing the game, or part of its primarily line of progression. But since its there, and we don't have it, it sticks out as something we can go obtain if we simply had enough motivation to do so. For some people that barrier is lower then others.... but the longer your playing the game, the more likely you will reach a point where it starts to matter to you.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > The second is achievements of Season 1. To be perfectly honest, I'm on the fence about these, because adding a way to get these, means officially removing any possibility of Season 1 ever coming back. I know it's been years and nothing happened, but this would certainly put a nail on that idea forever. Which is why I'm 50-50 on this one.

> > > >

> > > > I was thinking the same thing. I really want Season 1 to come back, but I want the whole thing back as a replayable story like Season 2 onwards. I'm concerned that the more little bits we get, whether that's the AP added to dailies or Fractals of certain fights or whatever the less likely it is that they'll bring the whole thing back, and all those little bits dotted around the game just aren't the same.

> > > >

> > > > Unless Anet tells us there is absolutely zero chance that Season 1 will ever come back, that they're 100% sure they will never do it because even if they had the time they would use it to do something else instead. But even then, it's Anet. I've lost count of the number of times their plans have changed and things they said they had no intention of doing have actually happened.

> > >

> > > I honestly lost hope on LS1. Alot of LS1 content became now either a fractal (molten, aetherblade, nightmare, making it 5 different fractals covering 3 important parts of LS1) or a festival (SAB, festival of the four winds). I wished there would be some new kind of fractals, which would be for squads with whom you could do past events (Battle for Lions Arch, Twisted Marionette battle etc). I do not belive there is any other way for the rest of LS1 to come back.

> >

> > That's really not a lot of Season 1. I've not played the Nightmare Fractal but the Molten and Aetherblade ones, even if you combine both Fractals they don't cover the entire dungeon and the dungeon was just 1 part of each release. That's like saying you've had Christmas because you opened a present. The Festival of the Four Winds is more complete, but still just 1 release. Not counting festivals and SAB there were 19 releases in Season 1 so there's a huge amount of content still missing.

>

> I honestly dont find much else regarding Season 1 that important though. Season 1 updates were realy small untill the final 4 or 5. Gonna quickly go through all main storylines written on the wiki;

> - Shadow of the Mad King: Festival, already here(part of the Halloween festival)

> - The Lost Shores: Was a one time event, brought new map, nothing missing here

> - Wintersday: The Wondrous Workshop of Toymaker Tixx: Festival, already here

~SNIP~

> - The Secret of Southsun: Brought few extra events on map, and a bit of story instances

> - Last Stand at Southsun: Same as above, most of stuff stayed

~SNIP~

> - Bazaar of the Four Winds: Festival, already here(now Festival of the Four Winds)

~SNIP~

> - Queen's Jubilee: Festival, already here. We had few story instances though.(now part of Festival of the Four Winds)

~SNIP~

> - Super Adventure Box: Back to School: Festival, already here

~SNIP~

> - Blood and Madness: Festival, already here(part of the Halloween festival)

~SNIP~

>

> This is now where it gets interesting:

~SNIP~

> - The Edge of the Mists: Got a new map, still here, otherwise pointless patch.

~SNIP~

>

> Soo, thats it when it comes to LS1. If we look at it most of content is already present in the current game, just in a different shape. The only events that needs to come back are imo: The Origins of Madness, Escape from Lion's Arch and Battle for Lion's Arch. If you would try to bring back the whole LS1, alot of stuff would not make sense. Multiple things would basicaly be duplicated. The story instances could be brought back somehow, but without the actualy world changing they wouldnt have the same appeal. Everything would also have to be instanced which is another story.

 

The above items on your list where not part of LS1, even if they where delivered during the same time frame, they are not considered part of the LS1 story. The LS1 story only revolved around those incidents that involved Scarlet Briar and those she used to meet her purpose, everything else was either a festival(not considered part of any LWS at all) or one off events like the introduction of Southsun Cove.

 

[Fenom.9457]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > Every player would already have progress towards that cap. All of the historical points the player has achieved would be turned into these daily historical points instead. So if the cap is.. lets say: 4650 ap (idk what the current cap is since efficiency doesnt show it anymore) and the player achieved a total of 2329 historical achievment points, he could get another 2321 points from historical dailies.

>

> Before Heart of Thorns the stats were as follows:

> 4987 Achievement Points in the Historical category.

> 3070 are from Festivals

> 1917 are from Season 1

 

 

Yea, a huge difference that needs to be available

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

There are a couple of implicit assumptions going around in the thread that I'd like to make explicit:

* It's bad for the game that newer players cannot catch up to veterans in AP

* The primary reason for the differential is due to no-longer-obtainable AP.

* ANet should make it a priority to reduce this differential.

 

I think it's worth discussing, especially since the OP offers a very constructive suggestion for how to address this without the need to try to recreate any of the conditions under which the AP was originally obtained. However, I don't think there's a general consensus on any of the three points, because underlying them is the idea that AP is all that important to the community overall.

 

For myself, I don't care in the least how many AP anyone else has. I care more about is there fun stuff to do in the game, is ANet moving away from a "you had to be there at the right time & place" mentality to a "play when you want" point of view. I care more that ANet keeps adding stuff to the game that entertains veterans as well as newer players.

 

I'd definitely like to see ANet address achievement rewards. I think there's inconsistencies and there's stuff that made sense 4 years ago, that no longer makes much sense now. But I'd much prefer they took a look at that first, before worrying about whether people who didn't participate in a 2013 Festival can obtained some of those AP in 2019.

 

Not only that, but these so-called missing points are completely dwarfed by the 15k AP from dailies. A player starting today won't catch up on those AP until 2022. There are all sorts of points not available unless you PvP or WvW or Raid or Fractal, things that huge swaths of people ignore. It's not that the missing points are unimportant, but they aren't the only reason for the widely different amounts of AP across the community.

 

tl;dr I don't think 8-10k currently unobtainable AP is the biggest issue with achievement rewards. AP is already an arbitrary system which doesn't affect a lot of people much and I'd rather ANet look at it more holistically than worrying about whether every has equal access to each and every point.

[Glider.5792]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > > The second is achievements of Season 1. To be perfectly honest, I'm on the fence about these, because adding a way to get these, means officially removing any possibility of Season 1 ever coming back. I know it's been years and nothing happened, but this would certainly put a nail on that idea forever. Which is why I'm 50-50 on this one.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was thinking the same thing. I really want Season 1 to come back, but I want the whole thing back as a replayable story like Season 2 onwards. I'm concerned that the more little bits we get, whether that's the AP added to dailies or Fractals of certain fights or whatever the less likely it is that they'll bring the whole thing back, and all those little bits dotted around the game just aren't the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > Unless Anet tells us there is absolutely zero chance that Season 1 will ever come back, that they're 100% sure they will never do it because even if they had the time they would use it to do something else instead. But even then, it's Anet. I've lost count of the number of times their plans have changed and things they said they had no intention of doing have actually happened.

> > > >

> > > > I honestly lost hope on LS1. Alot of LS1 content became now either a fractal (molten, aetherblade, nightmare, making it 5 different fractals covering 3 important parts of LS1) or a festival (SAB, festival of the four winds). I wished there would be some new kind of fractals, which would be for squads with whom you could do past events (Battle for Lions Arch, Twisted Marionette battle etc). I do not belive there is any other way for the rest of LS1 to come back.

> > >

> > > That's really not a lot of Season 1. I've not played the Nightmare Fractal but the Molten and Aetherblade ones, even if you combine both Fractals they don't cover the entire dungeon and the dungeon was just 1 part of each release. That's like saying you've had Christmas because you opened a present. The Festival of the Four Winds is more complete, but still just 1 release. Not counting festivals and SAB there were 19 releases in Season 1 so there's a huge amount of content still missing.

> >

> > I honestly dont find much else regarding Season 1 that important though. Season 1 updates were realy small untill the final 4 or 5. Gonna quickly go through all main storylines written on the wiki;

> > - Shadow of the Mad King: Festival, already here(part of the Halloween festival)

> > - The Lost Shores: Was a one time event, brought new map, nothing missing here

> > - Wintersday: The Wondrous Workshop of Toymaker Tixx: Festival, already here

> ~SNIP~

> > - The Secret of Southsun: Brought few extra events on map, and a bit of story instances

> > - Last Stand at Southsun: Same as above, most of stuff stayed

> ~SNIP~

> > - Bazaar of the Four Winds: Festival, already here(now Festival of the Four Winds)

> ~SNIP~

> > - Queen's Jubilee: Festival, already here. We had few story instances though.(now part of Festival of the Four Winds)

> ~SNIP~

> > - Super Adventure Box: Back to School: Festival, already here

> ~SNIP~

> > - Blood and Madness: Festival, already here(part of the Halloween festival)

> ~SNIP~

> >

> > This is now where it gets interesting:

> ~SNIP~

> > - The Edge of the Mists: Got a new map, still here, otherwise pointless patch.

> ~SNIP~

> >

> > Soo, thats it when it comes to LS1. If we look at it most of content is already present in the current game, just in a different shape. The only events that needs to come back are imo: The Origins of Madness, Escape from Lion's Arch and Battle for Lion's Arch. If you would try to bring back the whole LS1, alot of stuff would not make sense. Multiple things would basicaly be duplicated. The story instances could be brought back somehow, but without the actualy world changing they wouldnt have the same appeal. Everything would also have to be instanced which is another story.

>

> The above items on your list where not part of LS1, even if they where delivered during the same time frame, they are not considered part of the LS1 story. The LS1 story only revolved around those incidents that involved Scarlet Briar and those she used to meet her purpose, everything else was either a festival(not considered part of any LWS at all) or one off events like the introduction of Southsun Cove.

>

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Season_1

I know alot of things were not actualy connected to LS1, but we got them during that time, and they were on the 2 week interval (some took longer) when it came to updates.

Edit: Also, some of these are actualy connected, EOTM was a place where Mai Trin fled, we even had Taimi and Braham there. Bazaar of the Four Winds was basicaly a "pre" to Cutthroat Politics. During Queen's Jubilee Scarlet made her first apperance (there was also the instance where we had to chase her around in Pavilion). You can clearly see some festivals were actualy connected to LS1, even the EOTM patch..

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > Every player would already have progress towards that cap. All of the historical points the player has achieved would be turned into these daily historical points instead. So if the cap is.. lets say: 4650 ap (idk what the current cap is since efficiency doesnt show it anymore) and the player achieved a total of 2329 historical achievment points, he could get another 2321 points from historical dailies.

> >

> > Before Heart of Thorns the stats were as follows:

> > 4987 Achievement Points in the Historical category.

> > 3070 are from Festivals

> > 1917 are from Season 1

>

>

> Yea, a huge difference that needs to be available

 

The festival achievements repeat with every festival. Making old festival achievement points available without playing the festival removes an incentive to play during a festival, or rather removes the incentive to play the different activities during a festival. There is always an achievement for playing notes in Bell Choir, since the very first wintersday, this achievement repeats every year. Why would they make those available by playing something else?

 

Which leaves us with the 1917 achievements from Season 1. They aren't really many, there is a total of 15k available from dailies, which makes the 2k from S1 look like nothing. There are 4515 AP available in the competitive category, which includes WVW and PVP, achievements that are not available for every player (if they don't like Competitive parts of the game), these dwarf the S1 achievements as well.

[Glider.5792]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > Every player would already have progress towards that cap. All of the historical points the player has achieved would be turned into these daily historical points instead. So if the cap is.. lets say: 4650 ap (idk what the current cap is since efficiency doesnt show it anymore) and the player achieved a total of 2329 historical achievment points, he could get another 2321 points from historical dailies.

> > >

> > > Before Heart of Thorns the stats were as follows:

> > > 4987 Achievement Points in the Historical category.

> > > 3070 are from Festivals

> > > 1917 are from Season 1

> >

> >

> > Yea, a huge difference that needs to be available

>

> The festival achievements repeat with every festival. Making old festival achievement points available without playing the festival removes an incentive to play during a festival, or rather removes the incentive to play the different activities during a festival. There is always an achievement for playing notes in Bell Choir, since the very first wintersday, this achievement repeats every year. Why would they make those available by playing something else?

>

> Which leaves us with the 1917 achievements from Season 1. They aren't really many, there is a total of 15k available from dailies, which makes the 2k from S1 look like nothing. There are 4515 AP available in the competitive category, which includes WVW and PVP, achievements that are not available for every player (if they don't like Competitive parts of the game), these dwarf the S1 achievements as well.

 

How about just adding those festival achievment point to the festival achis which repeat yearly then (which currently dont give any ap)? You get (historical) ap if you didnt earn it in the past yet. If you did, you dont get any ap.

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > Every player would already have progress towards that cap. All of the historical points the player has achieved would be turned into these daily historical points instead. So if the cap is.. lets say: 4650 ap (idk what the current cap is since efficiency doesnt show it anymore) and the player achieved a total of 2329 historical achievment points, he could get another 2321 points from historical dailies.

> > > >

> > > > Before Heart of Thorns the stats were as follows:

> > > > 4987 Achievement Points in the Historical category.

> > > > 3070 are from Festivals

> > > > 1917 are from Season 1

> > >

> > >

> > > Yea, a huge difference that needs to be available

> >

> > The festival achievements repeat with every festival. Making old festival achievement points available without playing the festival removes an incentive to play during a festival, or rather removes the incentive to play the different activities during a festival. There is always an achievement for playing notes in Bell Choir, since the very first wintersday, this achievement repeats every year. Why would they make those available by playing something else?

> >

> > Which leaves us with the 1917 achievements from Season 1. They aren't really many, there is a total of 15k available from dailies, which makes the 2k from S1 look like nothing. There are 4515 AP available in the competitive category, which includes WVW and PVP, achievements that are not available for every player (if they don't like Competitive parts of the game), these dwarf the S1 achievements as well.

>

> How about just adding those festival achievment point to the festival achis which repeat yearly then (which currently dont give any ap)? You get (historical) ap if you didnt earn it in the past yet. If you did, you dont get any ap.

 

 

Yea, some way that leaves people playing the festivals (and AP is not the only reason), but also doesn’t force you to play every single achievement as many times as possible every single year or miss out forever

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > Every player would already have progress towards that cap. All of the historical points the player has achieved would be turned into these daily historical points instead. So if the cap is.. lets say: 4650 ap (idk what the current cap is since efficiency doesnt show it anymore) and the player achieved a total of 2329 historical achievment points, he could get another 2321 points from historical dailies.

> > > >

> > > > Before Heart of Thorns the stats were as follows:

> > > > 4987 Achievement Points in the Historical category.

> > > > 3070 are from Festivals

> > > > 1917 are from Season 1

> > >

> > >

> > > Yea, a huge difference that needs to be available

> >

> > The festival achievements repeat with every festival. Making old festival achievement points available without playing the festival removes an incentive to play during a festival, or rather removes the incentive to play the different activities during a festival. There is always an achievement for playing notes in Bell Choir, since the very first wintersday, this achievement repeats every year. Why would they make those available by playing something else?

> >

> > Which leaves us with the 1917 achievements from Season 1. They aren't really many, there is a total of 15k available from dailies, which makes the 2k from S1 look like nothing. There are 4515 AP available in the competitive category, which includes WVW and PVP, achievements that are not available for every player (if they don't like Competitive parts of the game), these dwarf the S1 achievements as well.

>

> How about just adding those festival achievment point to the festival achis which repeat yearly then (which currently dont give any ap)? You get (historical) ap if you didnt earn it in the past yet. If you did, you dont get any ap.

 

This idea has multiple issues, first and foremost activities that existed in the past, no longer exist, or no longer give achievement points. For example Lunatic Inquisition was removed from the game, while Snowball Mayhem doesn't provide achievement points anymore.

The second major problem is that past achievements aren't compatible with future ones. Toypocalypse Canceled (Survive Toypocalypse with at least one living gift dolyak) offered 20 AP during the first and second Wintersday. It started offering 5 AP onwards and it now gives 0 AP for completion in 2017.

 

On the other hand, Not Toying Around, which requires surviving 50 waves of Toypocalypse always gave 5 AP so I guess that could extended, assuming that's your suggestion, and become "Survive 50*(number of past Wintersday events that you missed) Waves of Toypocalypse" someone that starts with Wintersday 2018 will have to survive 350 waves of Toypocalypse, getting 5 AP after every 50 waves, for a max of 35 AP at 350.

[Ashantara.8731]

It just doesn't make sense that still existing achievements (like Snowball Mayhem) now give less AP than they used to. What's the point other than angering newer players?

[FrizzFreston.5290]

I personally wouldnt measure actual content against a certain number of AP. If we're going to implement some way to simply all be able to "catch up on achievepoints" and consider that the same as playing the actual content then I personally dont really see the point in it.

 

I feel AP is just to track what you have or havent done. Not to be used as some point system on a reward track.

[Leablo.2651]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > > The second is achievements of Season 1. To be perfectly honest, I'm on the fence about these, because adding a way to get these, means officially removing any possibility of Season 1 ever coming back. I know it's been years and nothing happened, but this would certainly put a nail on that idea forever. Which is why I'm 50-50 on this one.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was thinking the same thing. I really want Season 1 to come back, but I want the whole thing back as a replayable story like Season 2 onwards. I'm concerned that the more little bits we get, whether that's the AP added to dailies or Fractals of certain fights or whatever the less likely it is that they'll bring the whole thing back, and all those little bits dotted around the game just aren't the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > Unless Anet tells us there is absolutely zero chance that Season 1 will ever come back, that they're 100% sure they will never do it because even if they had the time they would use it to do something else instead. But even then, it's Anet. I've lost count of the number of times their plans have changed and things they said they had no intention of doing have actually happened.

> > > >

> > > > I honestly lost hope on LS1. Alot of LS1 content became now either a fractal (molten, aetherblade, nightmare, making it 5 different fractals covering 3 important parts of LS1) or a festival (SAB, festival of the four winds). I wished there would be some new kind of fractals, which would be for squads with whom you could do past events (Battle for Lions Arch, Twisted Marionette battle etc). I do not belive there is any other way for the rest of LS1 to come back.

> > >

> > > That's really not a lot of Season 1. I've not played the Nightmare Fractal but the Molten and Aetherblade ones, even if you combine both Fractals they don't cover the entire dungeon and the dungeon was just 1 part of each release. That's like saying you've had Christmas because you opened a present. The Festival of the Four Winds is more complete, but still just 1 release. Not counting festivals and SAB there were 19 releases in Season 1 so there's a huge amount of content still missing.

> >

> > I honestly dont find much else regarding Season 1 that important though. Season 1 updates were realy small untill the final 4 or 5. Gonna quickly go through all main storylines written on the wiki;

> > - Shadow of the Mad King: Festival, already here(part of the Halloween festival)

> > - The Lost Shores: Was a one time event, brought new map, nothing missing here

> > - Wintersday: The Wondrous Workshop of Toymaker Tixx: Festival, already here

> ~SNIP~

> > - The Secret of Southsun: Brought few extra events on map, and a bit of story instances

> > - Last Stand at Southsun: Same as above, most of stuff stayed

> ~SNIP~

> > - Bazaar of the Four Winds: Festival, already here(now Festival of the Four Winds)

> ~SNIP~

> > - Queen's Jubilee: Festival, already here. We had few story instances though.(now part of Festival of the Four Winds)

> ~SNIP~

> > - Super Adventure Box: Back to School: Festival, already here

> ~SNIP~

> > - Blood and Madness: Festival, already here(part of the Halloween festival)

> ~SNIP~

> >

> > This is now where it gets interesting:

> ~SNIP~

> > - The Edge of the Mists: Got a new map, still here, otherwise pointless patch.

> ~SNIP~

> >

> > Soo, thats it when it comes to LS1. If we look at it most of content is already present in the current game, just in a different shape. The only events that needs to come back are imo: The Origins of Madness, Escape from Lion's Arch and Battle for Lion's Arch. If you would try to bring back the whole LS1, alot of stuff would not make sense. Multiple things would basicaly be duplicated. The story instances could be brought back somehow, but without the actualy world changing they wouldnt have the same appeal. Everything would also have to be instanced which is another story.

>

> The above items on your list where not part of LS1, even if they where delivered during the same time frame, they are not considered part of the LS1 story. The LS1 story only revolved around those incidents that involved Scarlet Briar and those she used to meet her purpose, everything else was either a festival(not considered part of any LWS at all) or one off events like the introduction of Southsun Cove.

>

 

Scarlet was only introduced halfway through the season and had the previous chapters attributed to her via retconning, one of the key reasons that her character was met with disdain by many. The reason Southsun Cove was explored was to find a place to resettle the refugees from the first chapter. This content introduced Ellen Kiel, who was a key figure in the following chapters leading to her election to the council. Thus the first half of LS1 had a continuous story chain that was completely devoid of Scarlet, and frankly, it was the better half.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

LS1 was never really a season, that only came later when the switch to ls2 was being made to repeat story content. There was talk of story arcs that explored each part of the story and everything is linked somehow. Like ls1 wasnt just about scarlet, but also functioning as the origin story of, well, what is now dragons watch.

 

As for scarlet, the devs have said, publicly, that story is planned at least a year if not years ahead. Bringing that story across right isnt easy.

[Glider.5792]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > > Every player would already have progress towards that cap. All of the historical points the player has achieved would be turned into these daily historical points instead. So if the cap is.. lets say: 4650 ap (idk what the current cap is since efficiency doesnt show it anymore) and the player achieved a total of 2329 historical achievment points, he could get another 2321 points from historical dailies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Before Heart of Thorns the stats were as follows:

> > > > > 4987 Achievement Points in the Historical category.

> > > > > 3070 are from Festivals

> > > > > 1917 are from Season 1

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yea, a huge difference that needs to be available

> > >

> > > The festival achievements repeat with every festival. Making old festival achievement points available without playing the festival removes an incentive to play during a festival, or rather removes the incentive to play the different activities during a festival. There is always an achievement for playing notes in Bell Choir, since the very first wintersday, this achievement repeats every year. Why would they make those available by playing something else?

> > >

> > > Which leaves us with the 1917 achievements from Season 1. They aren't really many, there is a total of 15k available from dailies, which makes the 2k from S1 look like nothing. There are 4515 AP available in the competitive category, which includes WVW and PVP, achievements that are not available for every player (if they don't like Competitive parts of the game), these dwarf the S1 achievements as well.

> >

> > How about just adding those festival achievment point to the festival achis which repeat yearly then (which currently dont give any ap)? You get (historical) ap if you didnt earn it in the past yet. If you did, you dont get any ap.

>

> This idea has multiple issues, first and foremost activities that existed in the past, no longer exist, or no longer give achievement points. For example Lunatic Inquisition was removed from the game, while Snowball Mayhem doesn't provide achievement points anymore.

> The second major problem is that past achievements aren't compatible with future ones. Toypocalypse Canceled (Survive Toypocalypse with at least one living gift dolyak) offered 20 AP during the first and second Wintersday. It started offering 5 AP onwards and it now gives 0 AP for completion in 2017.

>

> On the other hand, Not Toying Around, which requires surviving 50 waves of Toypocalypse always gave 5 AP so I guess that could extended, assuming that's your suggestion, and become "Survive 50*(number of past Wintersday events that you missed) Waves of Toypocalypse" someone that starts with Wintersday 2018 will have to survive 350 waves of Toypocalypse, getting 5 AP after every 50 waves, for a max of 35 AP at 350.

 

We're clearly not understanding each other here. What i meant was (example): If you in the past missed 300 ap from historical wintersday events, that you could regain those 300 achievments points by doing the current achievments which give 0 ap and reset yearly. Every achievment would give ap, however, once you would get those 300 ap they would start giving 0 ap again and forever.

In this case it does not matter how many ap a specific past achievment gave. It just matter how many they gave all together, and that you can regain those by doing similar achievments.

Oh and Lunatic Inqusition exists again, im guesssing you meant Reapers Rumble ? ;D

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> Oh and Lunatic Inqusition exists again, im guesssing you meant Reapers Rumble ? ;D

 

Right, it was removed in 2015 and 2016 but came back in 2017. I didn't even notice they brought it back since it stopped giving achievements in 2017

 

> In this case it does not matter how many ap a specific past achievment gave. It just matter how many they gave all together, and that you can regain those by doing similar achievments.

 

But in your system they won't be "similar" anymore. You could get all your missing AP, from puzzles or other activities by playing notes in bell choir repeatedly for example. Not really something that's worth adding to the game but I guess Anet can decide if it's gonna be good to have something like that or not

[Glider.5792]

Another idea came up on my mind regarding this topic, a bit different solution though.

 

Since there is around 4987 historical ap, how about that the daily ap cap is just increased by another 5k points, to a new total of 20k. The historical achievment points would be counted towards the daily cap, just like the monthly does. This would be the most simple possible solution. Though since the daily cap would increase, i would suggest that every daily would start giving 1 extra ap again (just like it did in the past) so that this new goal could be achieved a bit faster.

 

And again, to point it out. This is about the achievment **points**, not the achievments themself, and is aimed mainly at people that did not experience first 2-3 years of the game, missing out on tons of ap, and being unable to get even close to highest possible ap and rewards.

_Everyone should have an equal chance_.

[Sanity Obscure.6054]

I'm not sure events like Fractured could be brought back so easily. They are clearly 1 time events. Maybe if they had a fractal anniversary week where you earned x1.5 the relics.