Unpopular Opinion: change sword #2

[skystorm.9280]

It’s clunky.

 

As Sword being our preferred Main Hand weapon for power builds the backwards roll and leap are just bad imo - it has uses in pvp and wvw but even then it’s just used to either get away (which can backfire on you very punishingly in order to execute both properly) or to enter smokedcale field.

 

You have about 2~2.5 seconds to use Monarchs leap after Hornets sting which ain’t a whole lot - it doesn’t remove immobilized or cripple (granted it does have decent damage and inflicts cripple). I just feel that Sword #2 could do with a chance or just overall be redone? I mean as it stands sword + dagger have such a nice synergy with the two evades and poison applications and Sword + Axe is great for #3 evade and reposition on target into Axe #5 (let’s not talk about axe #4 lol) but I just get bugged by Sword #2 the most out of all the weapon abilities we have. Just wanted to see if anyone shares my thoughts in this minority.

 

Just seems that they couldn’t polish the idea of what they wanted Sword to be; utility or power. The sword AA is great now but then hornet sting and Monarhs leap damage is pretty good but the roll back and leap back in part of the design just feels like it was a hot potato that just got dumped into what it is now.

[Silverkung.9127]

1Hsword skill2 they should fix like...

 

When click hornet strike can choose direction( like axe OH )when we click we jump and stab at 1st step.

Then monarchs leap pop we push again .

 

it's like skill "Swashbuckle" 0:24~0:49

 

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wsz9FLRR7d8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsz9FLRR7d8 "https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wsz9FLRR7d8")

 

we will easy to control position wise and combo faster better.

 

And...1HSword skill3 Animation not friendly with laggy they alway miss if you and your target dely 1~2sec.

[MightyOne.1742]

Tbh,I kinda agree.Skill 2 doesn't feel that useful in pve,and can be nice (sometimes)in pvp or wvw.But in all honesty,I would like for a little bit of a change to the skill :d

[InsaneQR.7412]

One other option is to make it really like thief sword 2.

So you can jump in and evade during flight and then you have 15s to evade backwards.

And serpent strike and stalker strike could be a chain too and dagger could get the evade backwardd on demand with stealth at the end.

[skystorm.9280]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> One other option is to make it really like thief sword 2.

> So you can jump in and evade during flight and then you have 15s to evade backwards.

> And serpent strike and stalker strike could be a chain too and dagger could get the evade backwardd on demand with stealth at the end.

 

Principly it is much like Infiltrators strike but reversed and yea those 2~2.5 seconds to use Monarchs Leap is brutal. I mean infiltrators dmg isn’t super high and it’s only on the first part of the chain (whereas ranger sword #2 has more damage on both chains) but it’s instant and has the incredible advantage of moving up to 1200 units (mind you not in a straight line as well) to instantly return within 15 seconds - that’s such a great ability. The immobilize is easier to land with that 900 unit instant because timing is much easier on instant abilities.

 

Thematically and balance wise I have no problem with infiltrators strike for thieves or playing against it but looking towards ours we get a clunky bee sting? Man.... a devourer would have been cooler and made more sense since they actually evade -.- nope. We get a bee ? buzz bzzz

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"skystorm.9280" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > One other option is to make it really like thief sword 2.

> > So you can jump in and evade during flight and then you have 15s to evade backwards.

> > And serpent strike and stalker strike could be a chain too and dagger could get the evade backwardd on demand with stealth at the end.

>

> Principly it is much like Infiltrators strike but reversed and yea those 2~2.5 seconds to use Monarchs Leap is brutal. I mean infiltrators dmg isn’t super high and it’s only on the first part of the chain (whereas ranger sword #2 has more damage on both chains) but it’s instant and has the incredible advantage of moving up to 1200 units (mind you not in a straight line as well) to instantly return within 15 seconds - that’s such a great ability. The immobilize is easier to land with that 900 unit instant because timing is much easier on instant abilities.

>

> Thematically and balance wise I have no problem with infiltrators strike for thieves or playing against it but looking towards ours we get a clunky bee sting? Man.... a devourer would have been cooler and made more sense since they actually evade -.- nope. We get a bee ? buzz bzzz

 

Thats exactly my point. Its already similar so its a minute step.

Both 900 range with evade frames from beginning to end would be optimal. After monarchsleap you have 15s to use hornet sting.

Dmg sty the same. Its not instant nor a teleport but good dmg with high utility which would be miles better than now.

[skystorm.9280]

@"InsaneQR.7412" i get you but what I’m saying is if there is a change I want it fit the theme of ranger, like how infiltrators strike fits for thief wielding a sword; it’s very swashbuckle-esque and promotes a hit-and-run playstyle. I do agree that if a change were to happen without touching the core of the skill too much then yes more time allowing to use Monarchs Leap would be a step or two in the right direction.

 

Also thief’s sword skills 1-3 have very great uses for pvp and wvw and also pve if you choose to roll that way in the shape of a very strong power damage with swords AA and #3 whilst ours seems to straddle both paths of utility (the evade with poison with ok damage on serpent strike).

[Krispera.5087]

It's not an unpopular opinion, lots of people want it to be a simple leap, not the weird dancing around. It's one of the main reason I just don't use Sword and prefer to use GS for the sake of simplicity.

 

Those that don't care or don't want to change mastered the about face back leap then leap thingy, which tbh annoys me a lot. I've seen lots of good ranger streamers fail it many times.

 

Sword 2 = Monarch's Leap -> Serpent's Strike

Sword 3 = Hornet Sting

 

or

 

Sword 2 = Monarch's Leap

Sword 3 = Serpent's Strike -> Hornet Sting

 

This would make more sense. Another option is make the leaps has a directional arrow.

 

PS : Crippling Thrust (Sword AA 2) still hit 1 TARGET. Pls fix Anet.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

Give sword 2 a longer Cd in between using the second leap, and Id be loving it.

 

At the moment, it seems too predictable. If I had time to use the 2nd leap at my whim, instead of a ridiculous cooldown(oh look lag, it's gone), it could mix things up with how you wanted to position the leap.

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

@""Krispera.5087"

 

Or there could be:

2.Monarchsleap - > Hornet sting

3.Serpent Strike - > Stalker strike

 

OR

2.Hornet sting (that can be cast in any direction depending on movement) - > Monarchsleap

3. Serpent Strike -> Stalker strike

 

Before you ask why i put stalker strike as a second chain on serpent strike: its pretty much the same skill with different numbers and its the main reason why dagger is paired with sword.

Dagger could get a total overhaul as a utility OH.

Because it is out dmg on torch and loses against WH in ranged utility. Even axe is better due to CC and reflect.

 

This would make sword decent power weapon and niche condi/hybrid weapon.

Good utility and with a new dagger overhaul it would invigorate this weaponset again.

 

And yes the AA needs to cleave on all 3 attacks.

[kharmin.7683]

The only time I really use sword 2 is when I hit it by mistake.

[jewishjoyride.4693]

Something to think about. Sword has been a popular choice across all game modes since launch, and in every meta. That includes the days of the broken auto attack.

 

The question that needs to be considered is whether sword is picked in spite of, or because of how #2 works.

[terrorshard.3854]

The only real use I have found (during combat) is to get out of necro puddles quickly.

[shadowpass.4236]

Sword 2 evade should be instant. In its current state, you can't use it to reactively dodge to anything.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"jewishjoyride.4693" said:

> Something to think about. Sword has been a popular choice across all game modes since launch, and in every meta. That includes the days of the broken auto attack.

>

> The question that needs to be considered is whether sword is picked in spite of, or because of how #2 works.

 

Because of the fast power AA that buffs your pet and because of sword 3 mainly.

Sword 2 is useful but cluncky to use and needs serious QoL.

[Kydar Schattendolch.6879]

Hornet Sting instant and throw a projectile while evading backwards, so that the dmg part of this skill stays.

Increase time window for the use of Monarchs Leap to 6,5s --> If CD-reduction from sword trait is skilled, the skill is ready after using Monarchs Leap after 6,5s. Without trait, there is a 1,5s cooldown left, so you do not trigger it instant a 2nd time.

 

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> @""Krispera.5087"

>

> Or there could be:

> 2.Monarchsleap - > Hornet sting

> 3.Serpent Strike - > Stalker strike

>

> OR

> 2.Hornet sting (that can be cast in any direction depending on movement) - > Monarchsleap

> 3. Serpent Strike -> Stalker strike

 

Or:

Skill 2: Hornet Sting

Skill 3: Monarchs Leap --> Serpent Strike with a 10s Window

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

Sword 2 should be jump-forward then jump back, instead of the current version where it's the opposite. That makes more sense and makes it work more like the other swords.

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"terrorshard.3854" said:

> The only real use I have found (during combat) is to get out of necro puddles quickly.

 

It's also damned useful for getting out of other area effects such as those done by world or raid bosses if you know to anticipate them. I'd give it a bit more thought and actually try using it more in spite of whatever distaste you currently have for it because what's more important about Hornet's Sting and Monarch Strike- just as with infiltrator's strike, is what you're able to do around it or as a follow up.

 

> @"jewishjoyride.4693" said:

> Something to think about. Sword has been a popular choice across all game modes since launch, and in every meta. That includes the days of the broken auto attack.

>

> The question that needs to be considered is whether sword is picked in spite of, or because of how #2 works.

 

As is said above. If you take the sword in isolation it doesn't seem all that spectacular, but what it does allow you to do is to disengage quite a fair distance away and this opens you up to several possibilities- you either A) re-engage using Monarch's Leap. B) completely disengaging. and C) weapon swapping to longbow and hurting your target from range after dropping traps or using survival skills to backward leap even further away. This is sort of tip of the iceberg stuff.

 

**You have to consider what this profession is as opposed to the Thief. **

 

You're playing a Ranger. A Thief wants to engage and then disengage quickly because it's primarily a melee class and that's where it shines so most of its abilities concern facilitating melee engagement. When a Thief uses infiltrator's Strike it's as a mini opener similar to Steal in that it leads to other attacks in melee- Infiltrator's return is just a get out of jail free card if they happen to need it.

 

Ranger is at best a hybrid but with a stronger emphasis on ranged combat- that's why you have an AI pet (at least for PvE) to act as a buffer between you and the target. In this regard everything else you have is to facilitate manoeuvre around and away from your opponent to allow you to strike powerfully from a distance. Even Great Sword has evade frames built into its auto attack chain, and if you play with auto targetting turned off, suddenly Swoop becomes one hell of an escape tool.

 

I guess it's just a matter of differing perspectives, but asking to be made 'thief-lite' seems, to me at least, to be at cross purposes to what this profession is about -which is keeping and maintaining a ranged advantage over your enemy.

[jewishjoyride.4693]

> @"Iozeph.5617" said:

>

> > @"jewishjoyride.4693" said:

> > Something to think about. Sword has been a popular choice across all game modes since launch, and in every meta. That includes the days of the broken auto attack.

> >

> > The question that needs to be considered is whether sword is picked in spite of, or because of how #2 works.

>

> As is said above. If you take the sword in isolation it doesn't seem all that spectacular, but what it does allow you to do is to disengage quite a fair distance away and this opens you up to several possibilities- you either A) re-engage using Monarch's Leap. B) completely disengaging. and C) weapon swapping to longbow and hurting your target from range after dropping traps or using survival skills to backward leap even further away. This is sort of tip of the iceberg stuff.

>

> **You have to consider what this profession is as opposed to the Thief. **

>

> You're playing a Ranger. A Thief wants to engage and then disengage quickly because it's primarily a melee class and that's where it shines so most of its abilities concern facilitating melee engagement. When a Thief uses infiltrator's Strike it's as a mini opener similar to Steal in that it leads to other attacks in melee- Infiltrator's return is just a get out of jail free card if they happen to need it.

>

> Ranger is at best a hybrid but with a stronger emphasis on ranged combat- that's why you have an AI pet (at least for PvE) to act as a buffer between you and the target. In this regard everything else you have is to facilitate manoeuvre around and away from your opponent to allow you to strike powerfully from a distance. Even Great Sword has evade frames built into its auto attack chain, and if you play with auto targetting turned off, suddenly Swoop becomes one hell of an escape tool.

>

> I guess it's just a matter of differing perspectives, but asking to be made 'thief-lite' seems, to me at least, to be at cross purposes to what this profession is about -which is keeping and maintaining a ranged advantage over your enemy.

 

Yeah this is pretty much how I feel about the subject. Ranger sword works with and for the Ranger class. Could it use some updates? I'm not going to turn down instant cast evade as Shadowpass mentioned. Actually I feel pretty strongly that should be added to the weapon. But a complete rework as I think OP and some others are talking about just misses what actually works well with the weapon.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"jewishjoyride.4693" said:

> > @"Iozeph.5617" said:

> >

> > > @"jewishjoyride.4693" said:

> > > Something to think about. Sword has been a popular choice across all game modes since launch, and in every meta. That includes the days of the broken auto attack.

> > >

> > > The question that needs to be considered is whether sword is picked in spite of, or because of how #2 works.

> >

> > As is said above. If you take the sword in isolation it doesn't seem all that spectacular, but what it does allow you to do is to disengage quite a fair distance away and this opens you up to several possibilities- you either A) re-engage using Monarch's Leap. B) completely disengaging. and C) weapon swapping to longbow and hurting your target from range after dropping traps or using survival skills to backward leap even further away. This is sort of tip of the iceberg stuff.

> >

> > **You have to consider what this profession is as opposed to the Thief. **

> >

> > You're playing a Ranger. A Thief wants to engage and then disengage quickly because it's primarily a melee class and that's where it shines so most of its abilities concern facilitating melee engagement. When a Thief uses infiltrator's Strike it's as a mini opener similar to Steal in that it leads to other attacks in melee- Infiltrator's return is just a get out of jail free card if they happen to need it.

> >

> > Ranger is at best a hybrid but with a stronger emphasis on ranged combat- that's why you have an AI pet (at least for PvE) to act as a buffer between you and the target. In this regard everything else you have is to facilitate manoeuvre around and away from your opponent to allow you to strike powerfully from a distance. Even Great Sword has evade frames built into its auto attack chain, and if you play with auto targetting turned off, suddenly Swoop becomes one hell of an escape tool.

> >

> > I guess it's just a matter of differing perspectives, but asking to be made 'thief-lite' seems, to me at least, to be at cross purposes to what this profession is about -which is keeping and maintaining a ranged advantage over your enemy.

>

> Yeah this is pretty much how I feel about the subject. Ranger sword works with and for the Ranger class. Could it use some updates? I'm not going to turn down instant cast evade as Shadowpass mentioned. Actually I feel pretty strongly that should be added to the weapon. But a complete rework as I think OP and some others are talking about just misses what actually works well with the weapon.

 

I would rather want the disengage cappabbilities on dagger OH than mainhand sword.

If you use axe dagger it would be rational, because you can still attack from range.

If you use sword with dagger and if things get dire you also could disengage.

If you use OH axe you have Area denial skill and with WH you have a speed buff and a ranged attack so disengage is less needed or can be placed on offset. I think dagger would be a perfect fit for a disengage skill and sword could get a proper gap closer and mobility.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> Sword 2 evade should be instant. In its current state, you can't use it to reactively dodge to anything.

 

This. The most important change out of all suggestions that should've been done years ago.

[skystorm.9280]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> Sword 2 should be jump-forward then jump back, instead of the current version where it's the opposite. That makes more sense and makes it work more like the other swords.

 

Yeah the more I play with other swords going to ranger just feels clunky like I said earlier and I think you nailed it - I also would really love to see if adding a remove immobilize to it would be better.