New Dyes are a Wasted Opportunity

[Rikimaru.7890]

Yes the new Dye kits are a waste, I know that there are 16777216 hex codes for colors, but why would you treat the Dye kits the way you do ANET?

 

But before I get into details I need to get something off my chest first: **WTF is up with Abyssal Forest Dye?** I mean why is it's hex code #000000, which is the hex code for **black.**

I already said there is a lot of pseudo-black dyes in the game already in a previous discussion, you can check out here:

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27712/too-many-fake-black-dyes#latest

 

However while the other dyes I mentioned are difficult to tell apart from **True Black i.e. Shadow Abyss Dye,** the Abyssal Forest Dye is clearly just dark green.

So why does it have the hex code for black? Did the developer who made it forget the actual code and went like "well I misplaced the real code so I'll just set it all to zero's."

 

Right so back to the main topic, the new dyes are a waste because all ANET does is make a lot of pseudo-black dyes and different shades of other dyes which hardly anyone needs.

Worst offenders are the **Elder Dragon Dye kits,** they could have been used to introduce other "true" colors into the game, but the only kit that did that was **Jormag Dye Kit** which introduced the **Permafrost Dye i.e. true white.**

Each of these dye kits could have brought a true color with them, because let's be honest this is what most players want, a pure untainted color.

**Primordus Dye Kit** could have introduced true red color - hex code #FF0000

**Mordremoth Dye Kit** could introduce true green - #00FF00

**Zhaitan Dye Kit** could introduce true grey - #808080, there are many shades of grey ~~ugh it's disgusting to even say it for this purpose now~~ however when talking about true grey it refers to the grey that is exactly 50% white and 50% black.

And the soon to come **Kralkatorrik Dye kit** and the last but not least **DSD Dye kit** could introduce true magenta #FF00FF and true blue #0000FF colors respectively.

 

So why are there only pseudo-black dyes made which later cost average 300g on TP? These other true color dyes would also reach high prices when introduced, so why not make them a thing already?

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

Where did you get the hex code? Sampled it with a colour picker, or somehow got the code?

You have to understand those dyes are applied to materials at shader level, that gives them different properties according to which material it's applied.

Like for example, my favourite uncommon dye: Heirloom. It can go from black to a gold-orange hue, depending on the material.

There's a lot more to dyes in-game than a simple single hex code.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

There's no "wasted opportunity" by ANet focusing more on all the aspects of color, instead of the arbitrariness of using RGB to describe colors. There's nothing inherent about #0F0 versus #01FE01 — one is just simpler to describe in the RGB model than the other.

 

And as @"ReaverKane.7598" notes, even that isn't enough to tell us what the dyes will look like in the game. Specific material affects different dyes.

 

Plus, the game uses other dimensions: brightness, contrast, hue, saturation, and lightness. Thus Shadow Abyss and Abyssal Forest both have hex values of #000, but are differently described by the other parameters, for example, on cloth, the API defines them as:

* [shadow Abyss](https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/colors/1354): "brightness": -31, "contrast": 0.976563, "hue": 0, "saturation": 0, "lightness": 0.9375

* [Abyssal Forest](https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/colors/1622): "brightness": -28, "contrast": 1.99219, "hue": 110, "saturation": 0.9375, "lightness": 1.99219,

 

I'd love to see a different variety of colors — we have 103 blues (many of which are super dark) and only about half as many oranges. But it would be a "wasted opportunity" for ANet to worry about R0|G255|B0 and similar colors simply because of the obvious hexcode.

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Where did you get the hex code? Sampled it with a colour picker, or somehow got the code?

 

 

Wiki has them: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abyssal_Forest_Dye.

You just need to hover the mouse over the 3 squares next to Color.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

How can they have “true colors” when what the color looks like will change according to the fabric type or the race?

 

[Dye](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dye)

>Up to four different colors may be applied to an individual item, and the outcome may differ depending on the type of material (cloth, leather, metal) that the dye is used on.....

>Also, each race has a cultural palette that reflects the character of the species. This means a red color for a human may not look the same as a red color for a norn or charr....

 

Obviously they can’t if how the the color looks changes according to your race or the fabric it’s applied to.

[Deimos.4263]

You can preview the dyes on your current equipment/outfit, even if you don't have them unlocked. What would be nice is an improved preview (with a zoom feature) and lighting options, similar to the one used on the total makeover kit.

 

[Greener.6204]

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > Where did you get the hex code? Sampled it with a colour picker, or somehow got the code?

>

>

> Wiki has them: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abyssal_Forest_Dye.

> You just need to hover the mouse over the 3 squares next to Color.

 

And we pull them from [the API](https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/colors/1622 "the API").

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The hex codes are populate the color on the Dye panel's color squares; it isn't used on the armor (which, again, as @"ReaverKane.7598" pointed out above, uses a more complicated system).

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Greener.6204" said:

> > @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > Where did you get the hex code? Sampled it with a colour picker, or somehow got the code?

> >

> >

> > Wiki has them: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abyssal_Forest_Dye.

> > You just need to hover the mouse over the 3 squares next to Color.

>

> And we pull them from [the API](https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/colors/1622 "the API").

 

Didn't know that they had that on the API.

But i don't think it gives the whole information...

I mean, just look at dyes like heirloom, Shadow Red, etc. They all have multiple hues even in the same material. With highlights having a different colour than shadows. That's not conveyed with a single hex code.

[Greener.6204]

Here's an [archived post from Kristen Perry](http://booncontrol.com/threads/live-and-let-dye-%E2%80%93-kristen-perry-on-gw2-dye-system.246/ "archived post from Kristen Perry") on just some of the things behind the dye system.

 

Note that the first part of the post is about the old GW1 sytem. The archive also doesn't maintain all of the images to which she refers.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Greener.6204" said:

> > > @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > Where did you get the hex code? Sampled it with a colour picker, or somehow got the code?

> > >

> > >

> > > Wiki has them: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abyssal_Forest_Dye.

> > > You just need to hover the mouse over the 3 squares next to Color.

> >

> > And we pull them from [the API](https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/colors/1622 "the API").

>

> Didn't know that they had that on the API.

> But i don't think it gives the whole information...

> I mean, just look at dyes like heirloom, Shadow Red, etc. They all have multiple hues even in the same material. With highlights having a different colour than shadows. That's not conveyed with a single hex code.

 

Correct: the game uses other dimensions: brightness, contrast, hue, saturation, and lightness. Repeating from above...

> Shadow Abyss and Abyssal Forest both have hex values of #000, but are differently described by the other parameters, for example, on cloth, the API defines them as:

> * [shadow Abyss](https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/colors/1354): "brightness": -31, "contrast": 0.976563, "hue": 0, "saturation": 0, "lightness": 0.9375

> * [Abyssal Forest](https://api.guildwars2.com/v2/colors/1622): "brightness": -28, "contrast": 1.99219, "hue": 110, "saturation": 0.9375, "lightness": 1.99219,

 

i.e. they have the same hexcode, but appear different in game.

 

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Where did you get the hex code? Sampled it with a colour picker, or somehow got the code?

> You have to understand those dyes are applied to materials at shader level, that gives them different properties according to which material it's applied.

> Like for example, my favourite uncommon dye: Heirloom. It can go from black to a gold-orange hue, depending on the material.

> There's a lot more to dyes in-game than a simple single hex code.

 

This guy gets it. Assuming GW2 uses PBR [this](https://seblagarde.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/dontnod-physically-based-rendering-chart-for-unreal-engine-4/ "this") would help to explain how dyes affect appearance in different ways (although for dyes that have brown->green they may use multiple colors). It is not as simple as black is black. Black could effect the roughness, metallics, and etc. in the linked example. I do not know if GW2 is [PBR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physically_based_rendering "PBR") so the link may be mute but it drives the point that dye color is not simply a single value. Actually! I recall experience with PBR being a thing in their job apps...

 

D:

[Balsa.3951]

Dyes should bring more dramatic changes. I myself stop bother by now with the 100 variation of red.

 

a dye which changes color depending on angle the light falls on or glow in the dark dye or dye which vibrates in a color rythm.

 

 

 

dyes as they are now they are dead

[Iris Ng.9845]

"True" colors without regarding texture and lighting will make the characters look flat, 2-dimensional and cartoonish. I used this to my advantage to make Mario characters but I appreciate the larger swatches of colors (dyes) that enable more realistic colorful presentations. Think about watercolors vs. a pack of 12-'true'-color crayons.

[Drecien.4508]

Maybe it looks green cause your monitor needs calibration?

[Fenom.9457]

Wait so they can add up to 17 million dyes?