Minion Master Elite Spec

[DeathsProphet.7460]

After viewing a number of discussions on the classic "minion master" and its future in GW, I thought I'd drop a quick idea for the next necromancer elite spec. Minions are in a weird place right now as they are both loved and hated by many but I believe a well designed elite spec could change that. In the current state of the game, minions provide a rather passive style of gameplay suited for PVE only. Sure, Flesh Golem and Shadow Fiend are used to generate life force in several gamemodes, but that's about it. Running a full line of minions is neither efficient or engaging to play and I think that can be changed. The second sentence on the necro wiki page states "They summon the dead to fight for them..." Ordering the dead to fight for you and sacrificing yourself to give power to these "abominations" has always been such a cool concept to me and I'd love to see it designed this way in the game. Maybe its my love for the minion master in the original game or my frustration with minions in the current state, but I couldn't hold off any longer on making this.

Anyways, the elite spec I'm thinking of is a giant (and I meant GIANT) Flesh golem/undead abomination with a cleave attack of some sort. You summon it using your F1 and the whole elite spec revolves around this minion that you, the necromancer, put your blood and energy into. Drawing on your own health as a necromancer, you can choose whether to channel or take away health from this minion, greatly strengthening and growing your minion, or vice versa. This allows the player to turn themselves into a glass-cannon by channeling their own blood into the minion, making it incredibly strong, or taking away its blood if you are low on health. The F1,F2,F3,.... are used to control your minion with options similar to that of the ranger pet and allows you to either take away or channel blood to your minion (this will either lower or raise your health and increase /decrease the health and damage of your minion). The channeling of your health will be increments of 20% that you can either take away or give your minion. You cannot kill yourself with this. Your last F skill sends your minion on a rampage (which you cannot control), attacking everything in the area while gaining a huge health and damage buff for a set amount of time. *This will be on a cool down or consume life force...not sure whether to include life force in this elite spec. Your utility skills are also based around your minion as I feel a minion master should be solely dedicated to your minion/s. Your heal skill would cause your minion to siphon health for 10 seconds for you and itself with a small initial heal. Your 7 skill causes your minion to knock down foes in front of it with a shorter cooldown than that of flesh golem. This skill can be strategically used to save allies who are being attacked by using your F controls to target specific players and then commanding your minion to knock them down. Your 8 skill causes your minion to strike fear into all nearby enemies through a deafening howl/roar. Your 9 skill causes your minion to gain quickness and swiftness. Lastly, your Elite skill will cause you to sacrifice yourself and channel all of your blood (health) into your minion. This can be used strategically when you are already going to die and causes your minion to spread multiple conditions with each attack (maybe torment, disease, bleeding, and chill). However, this is a 2-second channel so it will take timing. I designed the utility skills to provide aoe pressure as minions currently fail at this. I have yet to come up with the traits as this is merely the start of my design for the elite spec.

 

I know some of this may seem nutty (especially the Elite Skill) but these are just ideas I came up with while typing this. I believe the minion master is something that has a lot of potential and this design of self sacrifice to buff your monstrous creation is perfect for the necromancer. Please redesign/comment/add absolutely anything on any part of this post above. As I said, these are mere ideas that I thought could make a pretty damn cool elite spec if properly balance and designed. Thanks!

[DragonSlayer.1087]

I feel like whatever the next elite spec is, it has to be something different from the current ones and what they offer. Reaper is power and Scourge is Condi/Utility. Maybe the next one focus on Tanking, which means it can have synergy with Death Magic (Toughness).

 

I love playing MM Reaper. But realistically I only play in OW PvE where its practically unkillable. Trait Blood, Death and Reaper with Assassin Runes and you have a death machine. Necro is one of the few classes that can invest in full offensive attributes and still be able to sustain.

[DeathsProphet.7460]

> @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> I feel like whatever the next elite spec is, it has to be something different from the current ones and what they offer. Reaper is power and Scourge is Condi/Utility. Maybe the next one focus on Tanking, which means it can have synergy with Death Magic (Toughness).

>

> I love playing MM Reaper. But realistically I only play in OW PvE where its practically unkillable. Trait Blood, Death and Reaper with Assassin Runes and you have a death machine. Necro is one of the few classes that can invest in full offensive attributes and still be able to sustain.

 

I definitely agree that the next elite spec needs to be different from the current two. That's why a believe a minion spec that allows you to buff and weaken your minion/s depending on the situation would be entirely different from anything we've seen thus far. Also, being able to control your minion allows some variability in play style which minions currently do not have. That isn't to say that this specialization couldn't be a classic power or tank spec, it would just accomplish this in new way that's fun to play a and fits the lore of a necromancer. It would also take skill to balance the health pool of your minion and yourself since self sacrifice is the main function of the necromancer in this spec. It seems people hate minions solely because the current passive no-skill gameplay they currently require. Why not change that?

[Lily.1935]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/49593/the-deathcap-minion-master-elite-spec#latest

 

Already designed what a minion master elite spec might look like. Take a look.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Open world E-spec yayy

[DeathsProphet.7460]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> Open world E-spec yayy

I didn't even mention what type of E-spec it would be... That the problem. When people think minions they only think open world because that's what the only good use for minions right now.

[Aetatis.5418]

any type of AI in gw2 is (very) weak if you have a look at it

ranger pets with the exception of some expansion pets, necro minions, engineer turrets, scrapper gyros, renegade utilities. they all provide some sort of passive gameplay, die easily, have almost zero interaction with the reactive nature of the game (dodges, active LoS'ing, avoiding ground targeted skills and such) - their skills and pathway will always have some sort of delay - and they have limited options to be controlled (again, delay! because either the player has to play two characters at the same time and/or the player orders the AI to do something and it takes the AI a while to do what was ordered).

 

the only AI that works well (the exception being wvw blob fights, where they instantly die, before they do smth) are phantasms and clones. they are summoned to do one big attack and are bound to be used as a ressource after that initial attack via shatter. (after the recent rework that is).

 

i am not saying minions can not work at all - but i have no high hopes that it can/will be implemented in a way, that suits the combat system of the game.

 

a diablo 3 like attempt is probably something i could see work - summoning a entity to do an attack and disappear afterwards (much like guardian summonings or phantasms) - which we already have on two professions.

it also is neither a permanent army, nor a big summoned superpower that you "control".

 

i loved playing necro in d2 and d3 (which i suppose is more like gw1 than the current iteration of gw2's minions). i think it doesnt fit into gw2

 

 

 

 

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"DeathsProphet.7460" said:

> > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > Open world E-spec yayy

> I didn't even mention what type of E-spec it would be... That the problem. When people think minions they only think open world because that's what the only good use for minions right now.

 

I believe your idea in your head will be glorious but it still be dumb AI

 

And game is old and Devs alone told many times they can be limited by their game to do some things.

[Dadnir.5038]

I think Aetatis highlighted most of the reasons why a true minion e-spec isn't really attractive for GW2's players. The game simply isn't fit for such things.

 

However, I believe that the necromancer's thematic have a high likelyhood in leading devs toward the creation of such an e-spec, much like engineer ended up with drones on scrapper. Honnestly, I have already seen and I can easily think of quite a few way to design such a spec and a lot of those may be seen as pure cancer for PvP and totally unsatisfying for minionmasters purists. The only question is: How valuable will those minions be for each gamemode?

[DeathsProphet.7460]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> I think Aetatis highlighted most of the reasons why a true minion e-spec isn't really attractive for GW2's players. The game simply isn't fit for such things.

>

> However, I believe that the necromancer's thematic have a high likelyhood in leading devs toward the creation of such an e-spec, much like engineer ended up with drones on scrapper. Honnestly, I have already seen and I can easily think of quite a few way to design such a spec and a lot of those may be seen as pure cancer for PvP and totally unsatisfying for minionmasters purists. The only question is: How valuable will those minions be for each gamemode?

 

I very much agree with all that...guess just an undying hope I've had ever since transitioning from guild wars 1. I don't believe it's impossible for such a spec to be created that relies less on ai and more on the necromancer's skill but like you said, it probably won't fit into gw2's style.

[Lahmia.2193]

NO MORE AI.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> any type of AI in gw2 is (very) weak if you have a look at it

 

-looking-

The majority of mesmer phantasms and boosted ranger pets via beast mastery..... yeah... no... i don't see the "any type" you speak of.

 

None of the listed are as weak as necro minons and thats for 1 simple reason. Minons dont get properly boosted by traits when taken. And they are far too outdated

 

Ranger pets are outdated but when boosted by the consistently buffed beast maserty line they become useful / viable.

Mesmer phants deal decent damage and can also be boosted via traits that make their worth even more useful even if they dont land the full blunt of their damage or deal damage at all.

 

Necro minions just exsist. They dont do anything super great on summoning for the caster, the active skills are outdated, they are not boosted well via traits, and on death they dont do anything too great either. They are on a completely lower level of AI from the rest of the AI systems.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > any type of AI in gw2 is (very) weak if you have a look at it

>

> -looking-

> The majority of mesmer phantasms and boosted ranger pets via beast mastery..... yeah... no... i don't see the "any type" you speak of.

>

> None of the listed are as weak as necro minons and thats for 1 simple reason. Minons dont get properly boosted by traits when taken. And they are far too outdated

>

> Ranger pets are outdated but when boosted by the consistently buffed beast maserty line they become useful / viable.

 

Most of core ranger's pets are still in an awfull state even with beast mastery. Maybe not worse than necromancer minions but not very far away.

 

> Mesmer phants deal decent damage and can also be boosted via traits that make their worth even more useful even if they dont land the full blunt of their damage or deal damage at all.

>

 

It's arguable to qualify mesmers fantasms as "minion". They are now more like one time effect than minions. I'd liken them more to something like a necromancer well than a minion.

 

> Necro minions just exsist. They dont do anything super great on summoning for the caster, the active skills are outdated, they are not boosted well via traits, and on death they dont do anything too great either. They are on a completely lower level of AI from the rest of the AI systems.

>

 

Well, at least, they are way better than they used to be. I can recall a time when they wouldn't do anything despite the necromancer being in a dire state and actively attacking it's opponent.

 

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > > any type of AI in gw2 is (very) weak if you have a look at it

> >

> > -looking-

> > The majority of mesmer phantasms and boosted ranger pets via beast mastery..... yeah... no... i don't see the "any type" you speak of.

> >

> > None of the listed are as weak as necro minons and thats for 1 simple reason. Minons dont get properly boosted by traits when taken. And they are far too outdated

> >

> > Ranger pets are outdated but when boosted by the consistently buffed beast maserty line they become useful / viable.

>

> Most of core ranger's pets are still in an awfull state even with beast mastery. Maybe not worse than necromancer minions but not very far away.

 

True but you do have choice option in that regard there are still plenty of choices that will work even out side of the common meta ones. When boosted. There is a much more limited choice to necro minions and as stated traits to do not boost them properly to make them more effective, durable, or dangerous.

 

>

> > Mesmer phants deal decent damage and can also be boosted via traits that make their worth even more useful even if they dont land the full blunt of their damage or deal damage at all.

> >

>

> It's arguable to qualify mesmers fantasms as "minion". They are now more like one time effect than minions. I'd liken them more to something like a necromancer well than a minion.

 

As a well...... Because thats working out so well for renegade right now.... -sarcastic laughter- which is pretty much what you just described and no one likes those spirits for how easy they can be interrupted / killed along with the lower potential they have to do much of anything at a reasonable speed outside of the elite one.

 

I think it would be wise for anet not to take that path anymore.

Even as 1 shot effects its an AI that controls them even if the AI is simply as Attack marked target or walk to target and perform skill action. Its still much better than necro minions.

 

If necro minons worked as decent and strong 1 shot effects like that most of them would be much better off than they currently are even.

 

 

[Aetatis.5418]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > any type of AI in gw2 is (very) weak if you have a look at it

>

> -looking-

> The majority of mesmer phantasms and boosted ranger pets via beast mastery..... yeah... no... i don't see the "any type" you speak of.

>

> None of the listed are as weak as necro minons and thats for 1 simple reason. Minons dont get properly boosted by traits when taken. And they are far too outdated

>

> Ranger pets are outdated but when boosted by the consistently buffed beast maserty line they become useful / viable.

> Mesmer phants deal decent damage and can also be boosted via traits that make their worth even more useful even if they dont land the full blunt of their damage or deal damage at all.

>

> Necro minions just exsist. They dont do anything super great on summoning for the caster, the active skills are outdated, they are not boosted well via traits, and on death they dont do anything too great either. They are on a completely lower level of AI from the rest of the AI systems.

>

>

 

i did write a lot more than just "most ai is weak"... and i covered your points already.

 

cheers

[Rhyse.8179]

> @"DeathsProphet.7460" said:

> > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > Open world E-spec yayy

> I didn't even mention what type of E-spec it would be... That the problem. When people think minions they only think open world because that's what the only good use for minions right now.

 

That's because their AI is garbage and they are a liability in high end content. Buffing them via an espec won't change that.

 

I'd love for a MM spec to be viable and fun, but Anet can't even make Ranger pets work right and they've had years for that. There's no chance that a MM espec will actually work.