Swagger.1459 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"beatthedown.2651" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > You point to condi stats, yet you failed to recognize that the condi system we have was built primarily for pve. There are zero gear stats that provide active defense or mitigation of condition damage, like the counterpart of toughness and armor vs power damage... It’s also easy to overwhelm an player with conditions because there are limited sources of cleansing available on builds... > > > > If you want to talk about high toughness and survivable “tank” builds, you are also neglecting to see the crazy damage numbers being pumped out by individual professions... and those damage numbers are amplified by numbers you face in wvw... What are you looking to have every fight last 5 seconds and see that as healthy? > > > > Edit- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toughness > > > > “Toughness is a defensive character attribute. Each attribute point put into toughness increases the armor of the character by one, which improves the character's ability to withstand direct damage. Toughness has no effect on falling damage. Toughness is one of the contributing factors in determining NPC aggression.” > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage > > > > “Direct damage. This damage is inflicted by skills and/or traits directly, can crit, and is mitigated by the target's armor. > > > > Condition damage. This damage is inflicted primarily by conditions, does not crit and is not mitigated by the target's armor.” > > > > Again, none of the gear stats you can use mitigates condition damage... So the problem isn’t condition damage gear stats like “dire” or trailblazer”... it’s the fact that there are zero gear stats that potentially reduce the amount of condition damage. Condition output vastly outweighs a characters access to cleansing. These are the problems. > > You are right. The condi-system wasn't that well thought out since they started working on this game. The problem with changing the whole system is that it would require some serious effort and I just don't see that happening ever. Nerfing a few gear-stats that are not available in PvP for a good reason on the other hand isn't that unrealistic. Players of the game deserve a more "serious effort" aimed at improving the quality of gameplay... And anet wants more happy customers happily buying gems, not less. All goes hand and hand right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"coro.3176" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"beatthedown.2651" said: > > > I don't know if this is still on-topic, but this has been an issue since game launch. Now that this team exists I think it's about time to review Gearstats in WvW since there are quite a few pretty broken stat-combos that hurt the gamemode. An example would be the infamous Dire/Trailblazer stats, but also the straight up stat-bonus from Celestial. I know WvW isn't about perfect balance, but this does not mean there have to be unkillable builds that could put out waay too much damage. > > > > You point to condi stats, yet you failed to recognize that the condi system we have was built primarily for pve. There are zero gear stats that provide active defense or mitigation of condition damage, like the counterpart of toughness and armor vs power damage... It’s also easy to overwhelm an player with conditions because there are limited sources of cleansing available on builds... > > > > If you want to talk about high toughness and survivable “tank” builds, you are also neglecting to see the crazy damage numbers being pumped out by individual professions... and those damage numbers are amplified by numbers you face in wvw... What are you looking to have every fight last 5 seconds and see that as healthy? > > > > Edit- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toughness > > > > “Toughness is a defensive character attribute. Each attribute point put into toughness increases the armor of the character by one, which improves the character's ability to withstand direct damage. Toughness has no effect on falling damage. Toughness is one of the contributing factors in determining NPC aggression.” > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage > > > > “Direct damage. This damage is inflicted by skills and/or traits directly, can crit, and is mitigated by the target's armor. > > > > Condition damage. This damage is inflicted primarily by conditions, does not crit and is not mitigated by the target's armor.” > > > > Again, none of the gear stats you can use mitigates condition damage... So the problem isn’t condition damage gear stats like “dire” or trailblazer”... it’s the fact that there are zero gear stats that potentially reduce the amount of condition damage. Condition output vastly outweighs a characters access to cleansing. These are the problems. > > It's mitigated by cleanse and resistance.. of which there is tons out there. Ele, for example basically cleanses 1 condi every 1-2 seconds. Same with guard. Warrior/Spellbreaker can stack tons of resistance, etc. > > Now, I can land a 15k melee-range rocket kick (very risky, very close range), but that damage is applied over 15s. Absolutely no opponent is going to let that damage sit around and tick for 15s. That's an eternity in PvP/WvW. Most will cleanse it within 5s. So it really does 5k damage or less. > > Compare with power: There is no cleanse for a 15k shatter or a 15k deaths judgement or a 28k rapid fire, all of which are easier to land and GUARANTEE their damage and don't have to wait a quarter of a minute for it to finish ticking. > > I am fully aware of the condi system, and the problems in wvw and spvp. This is about nerfing gear to address issues, but nerfing gear will not address issues... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 They should remove all HoT+PoF stat combinations, sigils, runes and elite specs from WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > They should remove all HoT+PoF stat combinations, sigils, runes and elite specs from WvW Following your logic, we might as well go back to the horse and carriage cuz CO2 emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > They should remove all HoT+PoF stat combinations, sigils, runes and elite specs from WvW > > Following your logic, we might as well go back to the horse and carriage cuz CO2 emissions. > Horses are not zero emissions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > They should remove all HoT+PoF stat combinations, sigils, runes and elite specs from WvW > > Following your logic, we might as well go back to the horse and carriage cuz CO2 emissions. > To be honest, I'd like a vanilla tier ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSlayer.1087 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"coro.3176" said: > Just to add: > > It feels like the Great Condi Nerf Patch (Dec 2017) fixed a lot of the problem with condi being burst damage, which is fine, but it did not also reduce cleanse on all classes. The result was a massive nerf to all condi builds that cannot consistently reapply conditions. If condi stacks are halved, but cleanse remains the same, the result is a 50% nerf.. > > Was this intended? Are there any plans for non-spammy condition builds to be viable again (eg. condi engi, condi ranger, condi revenant etc.)? I'm quoting this person from another thread. Condi builds needs the defensive stats because their nature NOW is to sustain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosmaster.8263 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said: > > @"coro.3176" said: > > Just to add: > > > > It feels like the Great Condi Nerf Patch (Dec 2017) fixed a lot of the problem with condi being burst damage, which is fine, but it did not also reduce cleanse on all classes. The result was a massive nerf to all condi builds that cannot consistently reapply conditions. If condi stacks are halved, but cleanse remains the same, the result is a 50% nerf.. > > > > Was this intended? Are there any plans for non-spammy condition builds to be viable again (eg. condi engi, condi ranger, condi revenant etc.)? > > I'm quoting this person from another thread. Condi builds needs the defensive stats because their nature NOW is to sustain. They're also talking about the builds that don't instantly reapply 25 stacks right after you cleansed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts