In your opnion, whats the best class/elite especialization, taking into account PVE/PVP/WvW/RAID...

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > > Not even surprised so many people voted for mesmer, yall forgot that revenant and warrior are meta in all 3 modes as well? Its like people have nothing better to do these days than hate on mesmer

> >

> > Nowhere near the same power bro. And you personally have voted for ele? That's hilarious.

>

> Warrior has more power than mesmer in both pvp and wvw. In pve they’re just as mandatory too.

 

It really isn't. It's meta. It's useful. But if I have to choose which one to keep? 100 times out of 100 I'd choose the chrono, regardless of the situation. FAR better support. Less personal dps, but dpsers better than a banner warrior go a dime a dozen these days.

 

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Rev might not have as much utility, but its still highest large hitbox dps.

You know how many targets have large hitboxes? Yeah, I though so. "Highest large hitbox dps" is the sorriest excuse for a balance of all the sorry excuses in the history of this game.

 

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> And yes i voted for ele, you dont like it? Deal with it

I find it hilarious. But a good indication for your lack of understanding.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

>

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

 

>

> It really isn't. It's meta. It's useful. But if I have to choose which one to keep? 100 times out of 100 I'd choose the chrono, regardless of the situation. FAR better support. Less personal dps, but dpsers better than a banner warrior go a dime a dozen these days.

>

If u get desperate chrono can easily be replaced by support renegade and quickness firebrand. What can replace warrior? Nothing

 

> You know how many targets have large hitboxes? Yeah, I though so. "Highest large hitbox dps" is the sorriest excuse for a balance of all the sorry excuses in the history of this game.

>

So? Rev still has much higher dps than mesmer in raids

 

 

> I find it hilarious. But a good indication for your lack of understanding.

 

If you find it funny then that means im doing my job right ??

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Me Games Ma.8426" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > > Not even surprised so many people voted for mesmer, yall forgot that revenant and warrior are meta in all 3 modes as well? Its like people have nothing better to do these days than hate on mesmer

> >

> > True, but that's only because of sb on pvp/wvw. War's berserker spec is rarely, if ever, taken in those modes. Mesmer on the other hand is meta in any game mode no matter what espec it takes.

>

> The thing is that mesmer's elite specs are designed as a great addition to an already very strong core class.

> Mesmer as a base profession already is able to exceed other elite specialized professions. In the last weeks I just for fun played base mesmer in PvE (fractals) and PvP(yes, casual but still!) and I was able to dominate in PvP and have more dps than other players.

> This is imo the main reason why mesmer elite specs are as strong as they are right now. While other professions have a hard trade off on their specs (like scurge sacreficing shroud) mesmer just gets additional mechanics (mirage cloak and csplit).

>

> Mesmer is in an extremely good spot meta wise. Now other professions need to catch up. And I as mesmer main really think that mesmer needs some specific nerfs (especially the chaos boonshare)!

>

 

Mesmer is especially strong because its probably the most up to date core profession. The overhaul sky rocketet an already good profession to the top.

Mesmer has a good core profession with high utility and even more so when paired with an e-spec.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> >

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

>

> >

> > It really isn't. It's meta. It's useful. But if I have to choose which one to keep? 100 times out of 100 I'd choose the chrono, regardless of the situation. FAR better support. Less personal dps, but dpsers better than a banner warrior go a dime a dozen these days.

> >

> If u get desperate chrono can easily be replaced by support renegade and quickness firebrand. What can replace warrior? Nothing

 

Sure, replace 1 support with 2. Very balance.

As for the warrior, you only lose the banners. Boonstrip can be replaced, personal dps can be replaced.

 

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > You know how many targets have large hitboxes? Yeah, I though so. "Highest large hitbox dps" is the sorriest excuse for a balance of all the sorry excuses in the history of this game.

> >

> So? Rev still has much higher dps than mesmer in raids

 

[Oh, really?](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16115 "Oh, really?")

Not only Mirage has higher dps here, it is also far more reliable. As evidenced by the huge gap in the 50th percentile.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> If u get desperate chrono can easily be replaced by support renegade and quickness firebrand. What can replace warrior? Nothing

 

Any dps class can replace it actually. Pug meta for frac is 1 druid 1 chrono 3 dps. I've never seen any group replace a chrono with fb+rene in raids or fractals.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

 

 

>

> Sure, replace 1 support with 2. Very balance.

> As for the warrior, you only lose the banners. Boonstrip can be replaced, personal dps can be replaced.

>

Point still stands that warr has buffs that cant be replaced. I dont think you know how much of a dps increase banners really are. Also, before you had to run 2 warriors for their buffs, it wasnt until they made it 10 man that it dropped to 1. If they did the same with chrono, you’d only need 1

>

> [Oh, really?](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16115 "Oh, really?")

> Not only Mirage has higher dps here, it is also far more reliable. As evidenced by the huge gap in the 50th percentile.

 

Think again

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks

Renegade is highest large hitbox dps and fourth in small hitbox. Mirage nowhere to be seen for large and way at the bottom for small hitbox. Its also more useful for more bosses than mirage is

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

>

>

> >

> > Sure, replace 1 support with 2. Very balance.

> > As for the warrior, you only lose the banners. Boonstrip can be replaced, personal dps can be replaced.

> >

> Point still stands that warr has buffs that cant be replaced. I dont think you know how much of a dps increase banners really are

 

Yeah, and guard can buff the whole party with toughness. I don't see anyone doing it. Just because something's unique doesn't mean it's mandatory. And conversely, just because you can in theory replace something doesn't make it practical.

 

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > [Oh, really?](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/area-16115 "Oh, really?")

> > Not only Mirage has higher dps here, it is also far more reliable. As evidenced by the huge gap in the 50th percentile.

>

> Think again

> https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks

> Renegade is highest large hitbox dps and fourth in small hitbox. Mirage nowhere to be seen for large and way at the bottom for small hitbox. Its also more useful for more bosses than mirage is

 

I didn't know the point of this game was to trash harmless dummy golems as fast as you can.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

 

> > >

 

>

> Yeah, and guard can buff the whole party with toughness. I don't see anyone doing it. Just because something's unique doesn't mean it's mandatory. And conversely, just because you can in theory replace something doesn't make it practical.

>

Toughness is useless in pve, i was talking damage buffs. Ima have to do the math for u to understand clearly

 

 

> >

 

>

> I didn't know the point of this game was to trash harmless dummy golems as fast as you can.

 

U still said “mirage has much higher dps” which is obviously wrong. Then u laughed at me for voting ele ??. But if golems arent enough, just check the boss fights, renegade is more useful than mirage in most of them

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> U still said “mirage has much higher dps” which is obviously wrong.

 

I said it in the context of linked statistic data. It isn't wrong - you can click and see it for yourself. I can find you other bosses where Mirage outperforms Renegade as well. Actually in real fights, [on average](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/All%20raid%20bosses "on average") Mirage has higher dps. Again, with the damage difference increasing at lower percentiles. Not only that, Mirage is also nearly twice as popular. It must be because Renegade is too good and people don't want to cheese fights, right?

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

 

>

> I said it in the context of linked statistic data. It isn't wrong - you can click and see it for yourself. I can find you other bosses where Mirage outperforms Renegade as well. Actually in real fights, [on average](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/All%20raid%20bosses "on average") Mirage has higher dps. Again, with the damage difference increasing at lower percentiles. Not only that, Mirage is also nearly twice as popular. It must be because Renegade is too good and people don't want to cheese fights, right?

 

I didnt see the link you posted, you gonna have to post it again. Condi renegade has the highest ramp up time out of all them which is why you must think mirage has “much higher dps”. In fights where we actually get to finish it, we are always highest dps. This is why renegade is highest dps for dhuum, for example.

 

Revenant is also by far the least common class in the game right now, second being holosmith (which has some of the highest dps). Just because they’re not common, doesnt mean they’re not viable. I see more weavers and dragonhunters than mirages in raids, that doesnt mean they’re better

 

[Feanor.2358]

Yet Holos have representation higher than eles. Nah. Regardless what the problem with rene is, its high theoretical dps doesn't make it actually good overall in real fights. That's not "OP", that's being niche.

 

P.S. What you see is irrelevant. That's anecdotal evidence. In Raidar Mirages have already overtaken Weavers in popularity. Since at the start of the "era" weavers were the most popular, it means recently players have been playing far more mirages than weavers. Understandable, mirages are far more reliable and useful.

[steki.1478]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Think again

> https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks

> Renegade is highest large hitbox dps and fourth in small hitbox. Mirage nowhere to be seen for large and way at the bottom for small hitbox. Its also more useful for more bosses than mirage is

 

You dont see torment and confusion on golem.

 

edit:

actual mirage benchmarks.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Yet Holos have representation higher than eles. Nah. Regardless what the problem with rene is, its high theoretical dps doesn't make it actually good overall in real fights. That's not "OP", that's being niche.

>

> P.S. What you see is irrelevant. That's anecdotal evidence. In Raidar Mirages have already overtaken Weavers in popularity. Since at the start of the "era" weavers were the most popular, it means recently players have been playing far more mirages than weavers. Understandable, mirages are far more reliable and useful.

 

Maybe you play on eu but over here in na holos are hard to come by. Theres plenty of fights renegade are good in since they offer more than just dps.

 

Prove it then. And yea mirage is better than weaver in raids, but weaver and dragonhunters are still more common to see

 

> @"steki.1478" said:

 

>

> You dont see torment and confusion on golem.

>

> edit:

actual mirage benchmarks.

 

Renegade main condi is torment as well. So that really doesnt matter

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

>

> >

> > I said it in the context of linked statistic data. It isn't wrong - you can click and see it for yourself. I can find you other bosses where Mirage outperforms Renegade as well. Actually in real fights, [on average](https://www.gw2raidar.com/global_stats/All%20raid%20bosses "on average") Mirage has higher dps. Again, with the damage difference increasing at lower percentiles. Not only that, Mirage is also nearly twice as popular. It must be because Renegade is too good and people don't want to cheese fights, right?

>

> I didnt see the link you posted, you gonna have to post it again. Condi renegade has the highest ramp up time out of all them which is why you must think mirage has “much higher dps”. In fights where we actually get to finish it, we are always highest dps. This is why renegade is highest dps for dhuum, for example.

>

Dhuum and the large hitbox medium/high health pool kitty golem are the only examples, Gorseval is close but the phase shifts at 33% and 66% which essentially give him a full condi clear each time happen a bit too quickly for it to take the crown. For every other raid, fractal, and dungeon encounter, condi renegade is not only not top dps but also not a part of the optimal comp.

 

And this is also ignoring that on top of a strong meta dps build mesmer has the most brokenly overpowered build in all of pve in support chrono, and possibly the best solo dps build with power chrono.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

 

>

> >

> Dhuum and the large hitbox medium/high health pool kitty golem are the only examples, Gorseval is close but the phase shifts at 33% and 66% which essentially give him a full condi clear each time happen a bit too quickly for it to take the crown. For every other raid, fractal, and dungeon encounter, condi renegade is not only not top dps but also not a part of the optimal comp.

>

> And this is also ignoring that on top of a strong meta dps build mesmer has the most brokenly overpowered build in all of pve in support chrono, and possibly the best solo dps build with power chrono.

 

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks

Mirage is only optimal for 2 fights, renegade is good for 3. If we’re talking perfect comp then all you have is de, holo, berserker, druid and chrono. Mirage isnt so optimal itself

 

Yes support chronos insanely op in pve, but thats not what the other guy was arguing about.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Yet Holos have representation higher than eles. Nah. Regardless what the problem with rene is, its high theoretical dps doesn't make it actually good overall in real fights. That's not "OP", that's being niche.

> >

> > P.S. What you see is irrelevant. That's anecdotal evidence. In Raidar Mirages have already overtaken Weavers in popularity. Since at the start of the "era" weavers were the most popular, it means recently players have been playing far more mirages than weavers. Understandable, mirages are far more reliable and useful.

>

> Maybe you play on eu but over here in na holos are hard to come by. Theres plenty of fights renegade are good in since they offer more than just dps.

>

> Prove it then. And yea mirage is better than weaver in raids, but weaver and dragonhunters are still more common to see

 

I already did prove it. With actual statistical data, not hearsay, anecdotal evidence and theoretical performance. I'm well aware what SC recommend and why, however the truth is the vast majority of the groups are not SC and can not pull off the same tactics. Hence the popularity of the much simpler DE, Holo and Mirage builds.

 

P.S. Your region of play is irrelevant as well. Raidar isn't region-specific.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

.

> > >

 

> >

 

>

> I already did prove it. With actual statistical data, not hearsay, anecdotal evidence and theoretical performance. I'm well aware what SC recommend and why, however the truth is the vast majority of the groups are not SC and can not pull off the same tactics. Hence the popularity of the much simpler DE, Holo and Mirage builds.

>

> P.S. Your region of play is irrelevant as well. Raidar isn't region-specific.

 

Only “anecdotal” evidence you’ve provided is an irrelevant website. Most guilds will use their comp if they have the required classes. Pug raids mean nothing since just about anything (including necro) will work there as its filled with noobs that dont know shit about the mechanics. Again you can’t say they’re the most popular builds without a source to back it up.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Only “anecdotal” evidence you’ve provided is an irrelevant website. Most guilds will use their comp if they have the required classes. Pug raids mean nothing since just about anything (including necro) will work there as its filled with noobs that dont know kitten about the mechanics. Again you can’t say they’re the most popular builds without a source to back it up.

 

The "irrelevant website" is actual statistical data. Its accuracy may be questionable, but it is the best we have access to. Certainly better than "you see X" or "I see Y in Z region". Far, far, FAR better.

[Coyote.8391]

Lol @ the guy that voted for ele. Ignorance is bliss...

 

I'll just throw this in here:

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51552/poll-current-most-useless-profession#latest

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Awn.1327" said:

> This thread is pretty funny. There were 3 years where noone would ever bring a mesmer to basically anything. Now look at it.

 

Goes to show how blatantly horrible these expansions have been as far as being guilty of massive powercreep goes lol.

[babazhook.6805]

Best is a relative term. In my case it means the most fun to play.