Kam.4092 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 > @"Dace.8173" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. Aaah, I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah.4376 Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. > > Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. It does, but Dragonhunter, and especially Power Herald bring a lot more. Dragonhunter also has strong CC. I'm not trying to make the mood depressing, but this just shows that damage buffs are not all that matters. Necromancer needs a worthwhile group buff in its damage Trait trees. Blood Magic is mostly just mediocre support with meh damage buffs. Vampiric Presence is also less unique now, because of Herald changes. Herald can do group Life Steal as well. Necro just needs something. An example of another spec that looks great on paper is Firebrand DPS. It's great in Fractals, but in Raids it lacks in utility, and CC. Dragonhunter does less DPS, but its burst DPS, CC, and group buffs make it a better choice for Raids. I want to see Power Reaper be similar to Dragonhunter one day. Reaper, Soul Reaping, or Spite just needs a special aura, or access to more group buffs. Wells are nice, but negligible due to Blood Magic probably being inferior now for Power DPS. Also Wells are ground target abilities, and a lot of fights require moving, so it's a similar issue with Shades. Power Reaper is great in Fractals for burst, area control, projectile blocks, strong CC, and being tanky. In Raids it gets outshined greatly though. Every patch is consistent with buffs at least for Necro lately. People just need to realize a Profession needs more than just high damage to compete with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > > > > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. > > > > Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. > > It does, but Dragonhunter, and especially Power Herald bring a lot more. Dragonhunter also has strong CC. > > I'm not trying to make the mood depressing, but this just shows that damage buffs are not all that matters. Necromancer needs a worthwhile group buff in its damage Trait trees. Blood Magic is mostly just mediocre support with meh damage buffs. Vampiric Presence is also less unique now, because of Herald changes. Herald can do group Life Steal as well. Necro just needs something. > > An example of another spec that looks great on paper is Firebrand DPS. It's great in Fractals, but in Raids it lacks in utility, and CC. Dragonhunter does less DPS, but its burst DPS, CC, and group buffs make it a better choice for Raids. > > I want to see Power Reaper be similar to Dragonhunter one day. Reaper, Soul Reaping, or Spite just needs a special aura, or access to more group buffs. Wells are nice, but negligible due to Blood Magic probably being inferior now for Power DPS. Also Wells are ground target abilities, and a lot of fights require moving, so it's a similar issue with Shades. > > Power Reaper is great in Fractals for burst, area control, projectile blocks, strong CC, and being tanky. In Raids it gets outshined greatly though. Every patch is consistent with buffs at least for Necro lately. People just need to realize a Profession needs more than just high damage to compete with others. High damage is exactly what a dps profession need in order to compete others. There is no need to over complicate things. Too many unique buffs is exactly what made GW2 meta rigid compare to other MMOs. Warrior for example would most likely be your ideal profession then where he has 3 unique buffs, good cc and 28k dps which is around where power reaper was. They are wanted in literally every single meta run because of the banners and people have been complaining endlessly to nerf banners and buff warrior dps. That is not good design where groups have 1 spot locked forever for 1 class because of its buffs. The fact is that dps is dps. If your profession does 28k dps and 2k group dps via aura of some sort, what is the difference compared to the profession doing 30k dps at the end? There is no difference. In fact I would argue it feels worse to have a noticeable amount of your own personal damage locked into other people's performance. Banner warriors for example almost never tops the chart but are still wanted because of the boosts. I highly doubt they are happy about that. Example in other MMOs would be Playing a retribution paladin during Legion where the class had a buff called blessing of might. You can place it on 3 other party members and it consists for around 10% of your damage. It feels absolutely terrible to see yourself fall below the dps chart because other people made mistakes in their rotation or die and be performing worse due to other people's mistakes. Now this is not to say I am against adding utilities in dps kits. Blood rezzing for example is pretty unique for necros and I think they should try to keep it if possible. However ultimately the end game of all dps is just do dps. Therefore they need modifiers to hit at least a base level which I don't think the recent buffs have reached yet. It is really that simple. I bet you if the modifiers today bring power reaper to 32k-33k then they will be instantly accepted into groups without question. Instead we have to wait for the bench to see where it falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > > > > > > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. > > > > > > Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. > > > > It does, but Dragonhunter, and especially Power Herald bring a lot more. Dragonhunter also has strong CC. > > > > I'm not trying to make the mood depressing, but this just shows that damage buffs are not all that matters. Necromancer needs a worthwhile group buff in its damage Trait trees. Blood Magic is mostly just mediocre support with meh damage buffs. Vampiric Presence is also less unique now, because of Herald changes. Herald can do group Life Steal as well. Necro just needs something. > > > > An example of another spec that looks great on paper is Firebrand DPS. It's great in Fractals, but in Raids it lacks in utility, and CC. Dragonhunter does less DPS, but its burst DPS, CC, and group buffs make it a better choice for Raids. > > > > I want to see Power Reaper be similar to Dragonhunter one day. Reaper, Soul Reaping, or Spite just needs a special aura, or access to more group buffs. Wells are nice, but negligible due to Blood Magic probably being inferior now for Power DPS. Also Wells are ground target abilities, and a lot of fights require moving, so it's a similar issue with Shades. > > > > Power Reaper is great in Fractals for burst, area control, projectile blocks, strong CC, and being tanky. In Raids it gets outshined greatly though. Every patch is consistent with buffs at least for Necro lately. People just need to realize a Profession needs more than just high damage to compete with others. > > High damage is exactly what a dps profession need in order to compete others. There is no need to over complicate things. Too many unique buffs is exactly what made GW2 meta rigid compare to other MMOs. Warrior for example would most likely be your ideal profession then where he has 3 unique buffs, good cc and 28k dps which is around where power reaper was. They are wanted in literally every single meta run because of the banners and people have been complaining endlessly to nerf banners and buff warrior dps. That is not good design where groups have 1 spot locked forever for 1 class because of its buffs. > > The fact is that dps is dps. If your profession does 28k dps and 2k group dps via aura of some sort, what is the difference compared to the profession doing 30k dps at the end? There is no difference. In fact I would argue it feels worse to have a noticeable amount of your own personal damage locked into other people's performance. Banner warriors for example almost never tops the chart but are still wanted because of the boosts. I highly doubt they are happy about that. Example in other MMOs would be Playing a retribution paladin during Legion where the class had a buff called blessing of might. You can place it on 3 other party members and it consists for around 10% of your damage. It feels absolutely terrible to see yourself fall below the dps chart because other people made mistakes in their rotation or die and be performing worse due to other people's mistakes. > > Now this is not to say I am against adding utilities in dps kits. Blood rezzing for example is pretty unique for necros and I think they should try to keep it if possible. However ultimately the end game of all dps is just do dps. Therefore they need modifiers to hit at least a base level which I don't think the recent buffs have reached yet. It is really that simple. I bet you if the modifiers today bring power reaper to 32k-33k then they will be instantly accepted into groups without question. Instead we have to wait for the bench to see where it falls. > > The only reason why you'd care if you're not top DPS, is if you're selfish, and don't understand support class tax. It's been a thing for years in many MMOs. Why have a powerful support do top DPS? Also expecting 32k-33k is expecting way too much. Remember there's a trade off for losing DPS in Blood Magic. People keep forgetting this. Also the buffs are tied to Shroud. Expect a more realistic number like 30k+ I also played WoW for years, and none of the raiders in my guilds cared about being lower on the charts as support. I raided in serious progression guilds. They cared about contributing to the team. DPS isn't all that matters in MMOs. The last time Power Reaper got a lot of buffs, people expected above 30k, then it ended up being 28k. Inexperienced players with numbers overreact to any buffs on the forums, and expect way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > > > > > > > > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. > > > > > > > > Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. > > > > > > It does, but Dragonhunter, and especially Power Herald bring a lot more. Dragonhunter also has strong CC. > > > > > > I'm not trying to make the mood depressing, but this just shows that damage buffs are not all that matters. Necromancer needs a worthwhile group buff in its damage Trait trees. Blood Magic is mostly just mediocre support with meh damage buffs. Vampiric Presence is also less unique now, because of Herald changes. Herald can do group Life Steal as well. Necro just needs something. > > > > > > An example of another spec that looks great on paper is Firebrand DPS. It's great in Fractals, but in Raids it lacks in utility, and CC. Dragonhunter does less DPS, but its burst DPS, CC, and group buffs make it a better choice for Raids. > > > > > > I want to see Power Reaper be similar to Dragonhunter one day. Reaper, Soul Reaping, or Spite just needs a special aura, or access to more group buffs. Wells are nice, but negligible due to Blood Magic probably being inferior now for Power DPS. Also Wells are ground target abilities, and a lot of fights require moving, so it's a similar issue with Shades. > > > > > > Power Reaper is great in Fractals for burst, area control, projectile blocks, strong CC, and being tanky. In Raids it gets outshined greatly though. Every patch is consistent with buffs at least for Necro lately. People just need to realize a Profession needs more than just high damage to compete with others. > > > > High damage is exactly what a dps profession need in order to compete others. There is no need to over complicate things. Too many unique buffs is exactly what made GW2 meta rigid compare to other MMOs. Warrior for example would most likely be your ideal profession then where he has 3 unique buffs, good cc and 28k dps which is around where power reaper was. They are wanted in literally every single meta run because of the banners and people have been complaining endlessly to nerf banners and buff warrior dps. That is not good design where groups have 1 spot locked forever for 1 class because of its buffs. > > > > The fact is that dps is dps. If your profession does 28k dps and 2k group dps via aura of some sort, what is the difference compared to the profession doing 30k dps at the end? There is no difference. In fact I would argue it feels worse to have a noticeable amount of your own personal damage locked into other people's performance. Banner warriors for example almost never tops the chart but are still wanted because of the boosts. I highly doubt they are happy about that. Example in other MMOs would be Playing a retribution paladin during Legion where the class had a buff called blessing of might. You can place it on 3 other party members and it consists for around 10% of your damage. It feels absolutely terrible to see yourself fall below the dps chart because other people made mistakes in their rotation or die and be performing worse due to other people's mistakes. > > > > Now this is not to say I am against adding utilities in dps kits. Blood rezzing for example is pretty unique for necros and I think they should try to keep it if possible. However ultimately the end game of all dps is just do dps. Therefore they need modifiers to hit at least a base level which I don't think the recent buffs have reached yet. It is really that simple. I bet you if the modifiers today bring power reaper to 32k-33k then they will be instantly accepted into groups without question. Instead we have to wait for the bench to see where it falls. > > > > > > The only reason why you'd care if you're not top DPS, is if you're selfish, and don't understand support class tax. It's been a thing for years in many MMOs. Why have a powerful support do top DPS? Also expecting 32k-33k is expecting way too much. Remember there's a trade off for losing DPS in Blood Magic. People keep forgetting this. Also the buffs are tied to Shroud. Expect a more realistic number like 30k+ > > I also played WoW for years, and none of the raiders in my guilds cared about being lower on the charts as support. They cared about contributing to the team. DPS isn't all that matters in MMOs. > > The last time Power Reaper got a lot of buffs, people expected above 30k, then it ended up being 28k. Inexperienced people overreact to any buffs on the forums, and expect way too much. I am not sure why you think Power reaper is a support spec because is clearly not. It is a spec with utilities which is a far cry from a true support class. People expect 32-33k precisely because that is the average dps of classes like DH, Holos or Slbs etc etc who are all dps classes like power reaper. I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely not to. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. I played WoW as well and yes none of the healers in the guilds I have been in cared that much about dps other than for fun. I think our fundamental difference is that you think power reaper is a support spec; something I think many of us here will disagree. That is not to say we want the class to be a pure selfish class like DE; but a dps with utilities is very common in this game. It just doesn't make the spec a support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. > > > > > > > > > > Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. > > > > > > > > It does, but Dragonhunter, and especially Power Herald bring a lot more. Dragonhunter also has strong CC. > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to make the mood depressing, but this just shows that damage buffs are not all that matters. Necromancer needs a worthwhile group buff in its damage Trait trees. Blood Magic is mostly just mediocre support with meh damage buffs. Vampiric Presence is also less unique now, because of Herald changes. Herald can do group Life Steal as well. Necro just needs something. > > > > > > > > An example of another spec that looks great on paper is Firebrand DPS. It's great in Fractals, but in Raids it lacks in utility, and CC. Dragonhunter does less DPS, but its burst DPS, CC, and group buffs make it a better choice for Raids. > > > > > > > > I want to see Power Reaper be similar to Dragonhunter one day. Reaper, Soul Reaping, or Spite just needs a special aura, or access to more group buffs. Wells are nice, but negligible due to Blood Magic probably being inferior now for Power DPS. Also Wells are ground target abilities, and a lot of fights require moving, so it's a similar issue with Shades. > > > > > > > > Power Reaper is great in Fractals for burst, area control, projectile blocks, strong CC, and being tanky. In Raids it gets outshined greatly though. Every patch is consistent with buffs at least for Necro lately. People just need to realize a Profession needs more than just high damage to compete with others. > > > > > > High damage is exactly what a dps profession need in order to compete others. There is no need to over complicate things. Too many unique buffs is exactly what made GW2 meta rigid compare to other MMOs. Warrior for example would most likely be your ideal profession then where he has 3 unique buffs, good cc and 28k dps which is around where power reaper was. They are wanted in literally every single meta run because of the banners and people have been complaining endlessly to nerf banners and buff warrior dps. That is not good design where groups have 1 spot locked forever for 1 class because of its buffs. > > > > > > The fact is that dps is dps. If your profession does 28k dps and 2k group dps via aura of some sort, what is the difference compared to the profession doing 30k dps at the end? There is no difference. In fact I would argue it feels worse to have a noticeable amount of your own personal damage locked into other people's performance. Banner warriors for example almost never tops the chart but are still wanted because of the boosts. I highly doubt they are happy about that. Example in other MMOs would be Playing a retribution paladin during Legion where the class had a buff called blessing of might. You can place it on 3 other party members and it consists for around 10% of your damage. It feels absolutely terrible to see yourself fall below the dps chart because other people made mistakes in their rotation or die and be performing worse due to other people's mistakes. > > > > > > Now this is not to say I am against adding utilities in dps kits. Blood rezzing for example is pretty unique for necros and I think they should try to keep it if possible. However ultimately the end game of all dps is just do dps. Therefore they need modifiers to hit at least a base level which I don't think the recent buffs have reached yet. It is really that simple. I bet you if the modifiers today bring power reaper to 32k-33k then they will be instantly accepted into groups without question. Instead we have to wait for the bench to see where it falls. > > > > > > > > > > The only reason why you'd care if you're not top DPS, is if you're selfish, and don't understand support class tax. It's been a thing for years in many MMOs. Why have a powerful support do top DPS? Also expecting 32k-33k is expecting way too much. Remember there's a trade off for losing DPS in Blood Magic. People keep forgetting this. Also the buffs are tied to Shroud. Expect a more realistic number like 30k+ > > > > I also played WoW for years, and none of the raiders in my guilds cared about being lower on the charts as support. They cared about contributing to the team. DPS isn't all that matters in MMOs. > > > > The last time Power Reaper got a lot of buffs, people expected above 30k, then it ended up being 28k. Inexperienced people overreact to any buffs on the forums, and expect way too much. > > I am not sure why you think Power reaper is a support spec because is clearly not. It is a spec with additional utilities which is a far cry from a true support class. People expect 32-33k precisely because that is the average dps of classes like DH, Holos or Slbs etc etc who are all dps classes like power reaper. > > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. > > I played WoW as well and yes none of the healers in the guilds I have been in cared that much about dps other than for fun. I think our fundamental difference is that you think power dps is a support class; something I think many of us here will disagree. That is not to say we want the class to be a pure selfish class like DE; but a dps with utilities is very common in this game, it just doesn't make the spec a support. I never said it was a support spec. I stated how it should at least bring something to the group. Other Power specs offer at least something like debuffs, defense, or an Aura. Power Reaper needs something like that. Even if Power Reaper did 33k DPS, there are better options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. > > Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. No it's d finetly not. Take rs5 for example, that's a DPS loss, what else does necro have? Golem, that does less cc than before the patch. Yesterday we went fractals, 99cm before the patch, the golem almost did 1/2 of the breakbar, now it's just 1/4. Which is a huge unwritten nerf. And then you have grasping darkness (gs5) which is part of the rota and horn 4, which isn't but since you have a very strict rotation, you won't be able to do all cc abilities, because either weaponswap or shroud, or the skill itself is on cooldown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. Well I'll be honest, the more I see the change the worst they seem to me. - All in all, power reaper gain 5% more dps than before... that's all. - The consequences of the changes on _death perception_ and _reaper's onslaught_ might not have been seen by all players but they will soon kicked out. All in all, we will most likely see a new crusade against _deathly chill_ coming in the upcoming day under the argument that "reaper is a power spec and don't have any power grandmaster trait". - The change on _death perception_ also confirm the trait into a "power" trait which indirectly strengthen _dhuumfire_ design which is a bad design. - The big winner of the patch is... the core necromancer, which wouldn't be a bad thing if what it strengthen wasn't something that is fondamentally badly designed: DS. I'd bet that some players will soon realise the duel potential of a nasty _life blast_ coupled with _doom_. - The basic condi builds for all specializations are also seriously buffed in regard of burst which will undoubtely create "hate" in the PvP subforum because in this forum they generally have a lot of hate for condition damage. This is the reality of this patch. Some minor buff only really impacting PvP and WvW with sad consequences for the futur of the necromancer and it's subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > @"Methuselah.4376" said: > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the problem, necromancer and reaper didn't need damage buff in PvP and WvW. This patch don't change the statu quo in any way, it will just lead to complains from other professions. This is the worst thing that ANet could do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this doesn't make Necromancer more viable for PvE endgame content? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope it doesn't. The increase in DPS isn't to the point of reaching the same average dps level as other professions (not even close) and there isn't more useful support or utility. This patch changed absolutely nothing for the necromancer in PvE endgame content. This patch only really increase burst and sustain, which will impact PvP/WvW not endgame PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The changes will effect PvE a bit. Soul Reaping had a big damage buff. It will make Soul Reaping more powerful than Blood Magic for Power Reaper. I'd guess 30k-31k in total compared to the 28k before. Losing Blood Magic makes Necro give literally nothing to the group though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the question here isn't so much "did Necromancer get a dps buff" but "is this buff enough"? So even if Soul Reaping got a huge buff is this huge buff enough to get them on PUG teams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably not, because Dragonhunter and Power Herald bring more than Power Reaper. > > > > > > > > > > > > Having said that, Power Reaper does have nice CC capability and it's all part of it's max dps build. > > > > > > > > > > It does, but Dragonhunter, and especially Power Herald bring a lot more. Dragonhunter also has strong CC. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trying to make the mood depressing, but this just shows that damage buffs are not all that matters. Necromancer needs a worthwhile group buff in its damage Trait trees. Blood Magic is mostly just mediocre support with meh damage buffs. Vampiric Presence is also less unique now, because of Herald changes. Herald can do group Life Steal as well. Necro just needs something. > > > > > > > > > > An example of another spec that looks great on paper is Firebrand DPS. It's great in Fractals, but in Raids it lacks in utility, and CC. Dragonhunter does less DPS, but its burst DPS, CC, and group buffs make it a better choice for Raids. > > > > > > > > > > I want to see Power Reaper be similar to Dragonhunter one day. Reaper, Soul Reaping, or Spite just needs a special aura, or access to more group buffs. Wells are nice, but negligible due to Blood Magic probably being inferior now for Power DPS. Also Wells are ground target abilities, and a lot of fights require moving, so it's a similar issue with Shades. > > > > > > > > > > Power Reaper is great in Fractals for burst, area control, projectile blocks, strong CC, and being tanky. In Raids it gets outshined greatly though. Every patch is consistent with buffs at least for Necro lately. People just need to realize a Profession needs more than just high damage to compete with others. > > > > > > > > High damage is exactly what a dps profession need in order to compete others. There is no need to over complicate things. Too many unique buffs is exactly what made GW2 meta rigid compare to other MMOs. Warrior for example would most likely be your ideal profession then where he has 3 unique buffs, good cc and 28k dps which is around where power reaper was. They are wanted in literally every single meta run because of the banners and people have been complaining endlessly to nerf banners and buff warrior dps. That is not good design where groups have 1 spot locked forever for 1 class because of its buffs. > > > > > > > > The fact is that dps is dps. If your profession does 28k dps and 2k group dps via aura of some sort, what is the difference compared to the profession doing 30k dps at the end? There is no difference. In fact I would argue it feels worse to have a noticeable amount of your own personal damage locked into other people's performance. Banner warriors for example almost never tops the chart but are still wanted because of the boosts. I highly doubt they are happy about that. Example in other MMOs would be Playing a retribution paladin during Legion where the class had a buff called blessing of might. You can place it on 3 other party members and it consists for around 10% of your damage. It feels absolutely terrible to see yourself fall below the dps chart because other people made mistakes in their rotation or die and be performing worse due to other people's mistakes. > > > > > > > > Now this is not to say I am against adding utilities in dps kits. Blood rezzing for example is pretty unique for necros and I think they should try to keep it if possible. However ultimately the end game of all dps is just do dps. Therefore they need modifiers to hit at least a base level which I don't think the recent buffs have reached yet. It is really that simple. I bet you if the modifiers today bring power reaper to 32k-33k then they will be instantly accepted into groups without question. Instead we have to wait for the bench to see where it falls. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason why you'd care if you're not top DPS, is if you're selfish, and don't understand support class tax. It's been a thing for years in many MMOs. Why have a powerful support do top DPS? Also expecting 32k-33k is expecting way too much. Remember there's a trade off for losing DPS in Blood Magic. People keep forgetting this. Also the buffs are tied to Shroud. Expect a more realistic number like 30k+ > > > > > > I also played WoW for years, and none of the raiders in my guilds cared about being lower on the charts as support. They cared about contributing to the team. DPS isn't all that matters in MMOs. > > > > > > The last time Power Reaper got a lot of buffs, people expected above 30k, then it ended up being 28k. Inexperienced people overreact to any buffs on the forums, and expect way too much. > > > > I am not sure why you think Power reaper is a support spec because is clearly not. It is a spec with additional utilities which is a far cry from a true support class. People expect 32-33k precisely because that is the average dps of classes like DH, Holos or Slbs etc etc who are all dps classes like power reaper. > > > > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. > > > > I played WoW as well and yes none of the healers in the guilds I have been in cared that much about dps other than for fun. I think our fundamental difference is that you think power dps is a support class; something I think many of us here will disagree. That is not to say we want the class to be a pure selfish class like DE; but a dps with utilities is very common in this game, it just doesn't make the spec a support. > > I never said it was a support spec. I stated how it should at least bring something to the group. Other Power specs offer at least something like debuffs, defense, or an Aura. Power Reaper needs something like that. Even if Power Reaper did 33k DPS, there are better options. Well you are talking about power support should not do top dps, which I agree but I also took it that you are describing power reaper. In which case I apologize for interpreting it wrongly. The unfortunate truth is that utilities doesn't matter because they are unneeded in 99% of every single raid encounter here. You need damage and cc. That's pretty much it. Classes like DH, Holo, Sb, Sbk etc etc all perform similar dps with somewhat different utilities. For example DH has an aoe block that might help prevent a wipe at Deimos CM, or SB can entangle which helps at gros. Holo has super speed which might help at river or Sbk has bubble which is good at dhuum. However this is mostly minor differences that does not matter. Just like there's dps gaps between say Holo and DH. Few people are going to reject a DH over holo because it bench 1k dps lower. Just like it is very unlikely that people will bench power reaper(assuming it hits 32k dps) over Sb over gros because it doesn't have entangle because the difference is small enough that it doesn't matter. Besides reaper does offer spectral grasp and boon corruption which does count as its utilities. Is just not as noticeable as the blood rez support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Well we still got buffs and Condi was buffed too. Of course we dont break a game but something has change and thats good. For me it is Thank you Anet. We are always salty maybe we should find to way to get out maximum from our class. Soul Reaping Reaper will be awesome in burst scenarios. Blood will still be thing i like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. > > Well I'll be honest, the more I see the change the worst they seem to me. > - All in all, power reaper gain 5% more dps than before... that's all. > - The consequences of the changes on _death perception_ and _reaper's onslaught_ might not have been seen by all players but they will soon kicked out. All in all, we will most likely see a new crusade against _deathly chill_ coming in the upcoming day under the argument that "reaper is a power spec and don't have any power grandmaster trait". > - The change on _death perception_ also confirm the trait into a "power" trait which indirectly strengthen _dhuumfire_ design which is a bad design. > - The big winner of the patch is... the core necromancer, which wouldn't be a bad thing if what it strengthen wasn't something that is fondamentally badly designed: DS. I'd bet that some players will soon realise the duel potential of a nasty _life blast_ coupled with _doom_. > - The basic condi builds for all specializations are also seriously buffed in regard of burst which will undoubtely create "hate" in the PvP subforum because in this forum they generally have a lot of hate for condition damage. > > This is the reality of this patch. Some minor buff only really impacting PvP and WvW with sad consequences for the futur of the necromancer and it's subforum. I disagree with this because I believe they nailed the direction where power reaper should go even numbers might not be there yet. You probably saw my thread about power reaper before where I complain once a patch that gravedigger is the biggest issue with the spec. Shroud which should be somewhat of a super power mode is left in the dust and used as defensive in PvE only. Today's patch finally made it so that doing a shroud rotation even after 50% gives noticeable dps increase which means it is no longer just spam gravedigger anymore. Granted you still press the button quite a bit but it is no longer practically the only one you press. That is what I like because changing numbers is easy but changing play style is hard. We might finally at the point where just slapping damage modifier in random places is enough for the spec to be competitive. I am not going to comment too much on the other things mostly because is speculation. I really doubt core terrormancer is going to compete with scourge in anyway other than maybe solo roaming and memes for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. > > > > Well I'll be honest, the more I see the change the worst they seem to me. > > - All in all, power reaper gain 5% more dps than before... that's all. > > - The consequences of the changes on _death perception_ and _reaper's onslaught_ might not have been seen by all players but they will soon kicked out. All in all, we will most likely see a new crusade against _deathly chill_ coming in the upcoming day under the argument that "reaper is a power spec and don't have any power grandmaster trait". > > - The change on _death perception_ also confirm the trait into a "power" trait which indirectly strengthen _dhuumfire_ design which is a bad design. > > - The big winner of the patch is... the core necromancer, which wouldn't be a bad thing if what it strengthen wasn't something that is fondamentally badly designed: DS. I'd bet that some players will soon realise the duel potential of a nasty _life blast_ coupled with _doom_. > > - The basic condi builds for all specializations are also seriously buffed in regard of burst which will undoubtely create "hate" in the PvP subforum because in this forum they generally have a lot of hate for condition damage. > > > > This is the reality of this patch. Some minor buff only really impacting PvP and WvW with sad consequences for the futur of the necromancer and it's subforum. > > I disagree with this because I believe they nailed the direction where power reaper should go even numbers might not be there yet. > > You probably saw my thread about power reaper before where I complain once a patch that gravedigger is the biggest issue with the spec. Shroud which should be somewhat of a super power mode is left in the dust and used as defensive in PvE only. Today's patch finally made it so that doing a shroud rotation even after 50% gives noticeable dps increase which means it is no longer just spam gravedigger anymore. Granted you still press the button quite a bit but it is no longer practically the only one you press. That is what I like because changing numbers is easy but changing play style is hard. We might finally at the point where just slapping damage modifier in random places is enough for the spec to be competitive. > > I am not going to comment too much on the other things mostly because is speculation. I really doubt core terrormancer is going to compete with scourge in anyway other than maybe solo roaming and memes for example. I don't talk about core terrormancer thought. What you don't take into consideration is that shroud's damage are nerfed by the very fact that your health is replaced by life force when you are in shroud which mean that in real combat where you take damage repeatedly the time you spend in shroud is further reduced than against a golem that don't touch you. The grave digger spam will stay because nothing in this patch changed the rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. > > > > > > Well I'll be honest, the more I see the change the worst they seem to me. > > > - All in all, power reaper gain 5% more dps than before... that's all. > > > - The consequences of the changes on _death perception_ and _reaper's onslaught_ might not have been seen by all players but they will soon kicked out. All in all, we will most likely see a new crusade against _deathly chill_ coming in the upcoming day under the argument that "reaper is a power spec and don't have any power grandmaster trait". > > > - The change on _death perception_ also confirm the trait into a "power" trait which indirectly strengthen _dhuumfire_ design which is a bad design. > > > - The big winner of the patch is... the core necromancer, which wouldn't be a bad thing if what it strengthen wasn't something that is fondamentally badly designed: DS. I'd bet that some players will soon realise the duel potential of a nasty _life blast_ coupled with _doom_. > > > - The basic condi builds for all specializations are also seriously buffed in regard of burst which will undoubtely create "hate" in the PvP subforum because in this forum they generally have a lot of hate for condition damage. > > > > > > This is the reality of this patch. Some minor buff only really impacting PvP and WvW with sad consequences for the futur of the necromancer and it's subforum. > > > > I disagree with this because I believe they nailed the direction where power reaper should go even numbers might not be there yet. > > > > You probably saw my thread about power reaper before where I complain once a patch that gravedigger is the biggest issue with the spec. Shroud which should be somewhat of a super power mode is left in the dust and used as defensive in PvE only. Today's patch finally made it so that doing a shroud rotation even after 50% gives noticeable dps increase which means it is no longer just spam gravedigger anymore. Granted you still press the button quite a bit but it is no longer practically the only one you press. That is what I like because changing numbers is easy but changing play style is hard. We might finally at the point where just slapping damage modifier in random places is enough for the spec to be competitive. > > > > I am not going to comment too much on the other things mostly because is speculation. I really doubt core terrormancer is going to compete with scourge in anyway other than maybe solo roaming and memes for example. > > I don't talk about core terrormancer thought. What you don't take into consideration is that shroud's damage are nerfed by the very fact that your health is replaced by life force when you are in shroud which mean that in real combat where you take damage repeatedly the time you spend in shroud is further reduced than against a golem that don't touch you. The grave digger spam will stay because nothing in this patch changed the rotation. Ah sorry about that. I read coremancer and life blast + doom and figure you were talking about the terror change. I am honestly be interested to try it out even though is probably a meme. As for Shroud, you really don't stay in shroud long enough for damage to kick you below the threshold and if you do. Well that's your fault for tanking hits and I am perfectly ok with losing damage because of personal mistakes. The only thing that's really unavoidable is the boss aura which ticks for about 1k every 3 seconds or so? That can be managed since you don't really stay in shroud for too long. The gravedigger spam is no longer the right rotation now because the +300 fero finally pushed shroud over the edge(RS5 is now worth using after 25% for example). Before you already use GS5 and 4 to cancel the aftercast for a minor damage boost and then RS4 before going back to GS2. However the difference is somewhat minor and provides more trouble than is worth in real raid situations since GS2 spam is a tiny dps loss compared to doing the rotation. Now there's actually a somewhat noticeable difference compare to GS2 spam and rotating skills that is worth to actually trying to do in the rotation in raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > Ah sorry about that. I read coremancer and life blast + doom and figure you were talking about the terror change. I am honestly be interested to try it out even though is probably a meme. > It is, indeed. But it's a fun meme that will take me back in time and i'll enjoy it. > As for Shroud, you really don't stay in shroud long enough for damage to kick you below the threshold and if you do. Well that's your fault for tanking hits and I am perfectly ok with losing damage because of personal mistakes. The only thing that's really unavoidable is the boss aura which ticks for about 1k every 3 seconds or so? That can be managed since you don't really stay in shroud for too long. > This still reduce the usefullness of the shroud as a damage dealing tool. > The gravedigger spam is no longer the right rotation now because the +300 fero finally pushed shroud over the edge(RS5 is now worth using after 25% for example). Before you already use GS5 and 4 to cancel the aftercast for a minor damage boost and then RS4 before going back to GS2. However the difference is somewhat minor and provides more trouble than it does in real raid situations since GS2 spam is a tiny dps loss compared to doing the rotation. Now there's actually a somewhat noticeable difference compare to GS2 spam and rotating skills that is worth to actually trying to do in the rotation in raids. You realize that those 300 ferocity you had them on _reaper onslaught_ before, right? They just switched the place this ferocity buff was. The condition for the ferocity buff didn't change at all... There is 0 gain of damage or rotation there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > Ah sorry about that. I read coremancer and life blast + doom and figure you were talking about the terror change. I am honestly be interested to try it out even though is probably a meme. > > > > It is, indeed. But it's a fun meme that will take me back in time and i'll enjoy it. > > > As for Shroud, you really don't stay in shroud long enough for damage to kick you below the threshold and if you do. Well that's your fault for tanking hits and I am perfectly ok with losing damage because of personal mistakes. The only thing that's really unavoidable is the boss aura which ticks for about 1k every 3 seconds or so? That can be managed since you don't really stay in shroud for too long. > > > > This still reduce the usefullness of the shroud as a damage dealing tool. > > > The gravedigger spam is no longer the right rotation now because the +300 fero finally pushed shroud over the edge(RS5 is now worth using after 25% for example). Before you already use GS5 and 4 to cancel the aftercast for a minor damage boost and then RS4 before going back to GS2. However the difference is somewhat minor and provides more trouble than it does in real raid situations since GS2 spam is a tiny dps loss compared to doing the rotation. Now there's actually a somewhat noticeable difference compare to GS2 spam and rotating skills that is worth to actually trying to do in the rotation in raids. > > You realize that those 300 ferocity you had them on _reaper onslaught_ before, right? They just switched the place this ferocity buff was. The condition for the ferocity buff didn't change at all... There is 0 gain of damage or rotation there. Shroud's usefulness as a damage dealing tool hasn't changed from this patch from the previous one. It just became stronger that is all. Will it performs worse in realistic situations? Sure I agree but we are talking about benching here. Nobody does bench dps in real raids. You also probably read the ferocity changes wrong which probably gave some confusion. The +300 ferocity on death perception is in addition to the 300 from reaper's onslaught. Simplest way to check is just flick shroud with both trait and then without. You will see your ferocity went up by 600 while in shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. > > > > Well I'll be honest, the more I see the change the worst they seem to me. > > - All in all, power reaper gain 5% more dps than before... that's all. > > - The consequences of the changes on _death perception_ and _reaper's onslaught_ might not have been seen by all players but they will soon kicked out. All in all, we will most likely see a new crusade against _deathly chill_ coming in the upcoming day under the argument that "reaper is a power spec and don't have any power grandmaster trait". > > - The change on _death perception_ also confirm the trait into a "power" trait which indirectly strengthen _dhuumfire_ design which is a bad design. > > - The big winner of the patch is... the core necromancer, which wouldn't be a bad thing if what it strengthen wasn't something that is fondamentally badly designed: DS. I'd bet that some players will soon realise the duel potential of a nasty _life blast_ coupled with _doom_. > > - The basic condi builds for all specializations are also seriously buffed in regard of burst which will undoubtely create "hate" in the PvP subforum because in this forum they generally have a lot of hate for condition damage. > > > > This is the reality of this patch. Some minor buff only really impacting PvP and WvW with sad consequences for the futur of the necromancer and it's subforum. > > I disagree with this because I believe they nailed the direction where power reaper should go even numbers might not be there yet. > > You probably saw my thread about power reaper before where I complain once a patch that gravedigger is the biggest issue with the spec. Shroud which should be somewhat of a super power mode is left in the dust and used as defensive in PvE only. **Today's patch finally made it so that doing a shroud rotation even after 50% gives noticeable dps increase** which means it is no longer just spam gravedigger anymore. Granted you still press the button quite a bit but it is no longer practically the only one you press. That is what I like because changing numbers is easy but changing play style is hard. We might finally at the point where just slapping damage modifier in random places is enough for the spec to be competitive. > > I am not going to comment too much on the other things mostly because is speculation. I really doubt core terrormancer is going to compete with scourge in anyway other than maybe solo roaming and memes for example. show me please. because i dont see the **noticeable** dps increase (including shroud) below 50%. like i mean it, maybe i couldnt figure out that sweet spot of rotation yet. in general i can't see why so many people expect 32k-33k dps with these changes (well as someone mentioned, because most meta professions sit around that number. sure)... it is minor changes (for power reaper that is) in terms of DPS, and big changes in terms of burst potential in pvp/wvw/when playing pve in an unoptimized group. i am missing power infusions only and i dont use arc-dps (the chat dps-meter in the test area instead) .... and my numbers are 28kdps flat with the new soul reaping. blood magic is still close behind with about 1.5k dps less but giving vampiric presence (which translates to another 1k grp dps) considering the power infusions, a dps-meter difference AND an uncompleted rotation i see minmaxed dps at roughly 30k - if it were to reach that point. i also hear the pvp sub forums crying about the reaper _burst_, because its freaking 300 AOE. however. i am not the one to complain since "unoptimized groups in pve" is what i play most of the time, if i am not playing wvw, and there the necro really shines now. it feels like a green coloured DH with a scythe transformation and more HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Aetatis.5418" said: > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > I understand that the number will probably be 30kish, you might have misunderstood me a bit on that statement. My hypothesis was simply that if the damage modifiers are enough to hit 32-33k today which is very likely to not. Then there would be no complaints whatsoever on the PvE side. > > > > > > Well I'll be honest, the more I see the change the worst they seem to me. > > > - All in all, power reaper gain 5% more dps than before... that's all. > > > - The consequences of the changes on _death perception_ and _reaper's onslaught_ might not have been seen by all players but they will soon kicked out. All in all, we will most likely see a new crusade against _deathly chill_ coming in the upcoming day under the argument that "reaper is a power spec and don't have any power grandmaster trait". > > > - The change on _death perception_ also confirm the trait into a "power" trait which indirectly strengthen _dhuumfire_ design which is a bad design. > > > - The big winner of the patch is... the core necromancer, which wouldn't be a bad thing if what it strengthen wasn't something that is fondamentally badly designed: DS. I'd bet that some players will soon realise the duel potential of a nasty _life blast_ coupled with _doom_. > > > - The basic condi builds for all specializations are also seriously buffed in regard of burst which will undoubtely create "hate" in the PvP subforum because in this forum they generally have a lot of hate for condition damage. > > > > > > This is the reality of this patch. Some minor buff only really impacting PvP and WvW with sad consequences for the futur of the necromancer and it's subforum. > > > > I disagree with this because I believe they nailed the direction where power reaper should go even numbers might not be there yet. > > > > You probably saw my thread about power reaper before where I complain once a patch that gravedigger is the biggest issue with the spec. Shroud which should be somewhat of a super power mode is left in the dust and used as defensive in PvE only. **Today's patch finally made it so that doing a shroud rotation even after 50% gives noticeable dps increase** which means it is no longer just spam gravedigger anymore. Granted you still press the button quite a bit but it is no longer practically the only one you press. That is what I like because changing numbers is easy but changing play style is hard. We might finally at the point where just slapping damage modifier in random places is enough for the spec to be competitive. > > > > I am not going to comment too much on the other things mostly because is speculation. I really doubt core terrormancer is going to compete with scourge in anyway other than maybe solo roaming and memes for example. > > show me please. because i dont see the **noticeable** dps increase (including shroud) below 50%. like i mean it, maybe i couldnt figure out that sweet spot of rotation yet. > > in general i can't see why so many people expect 32k-33k dps with these changes (well as someone mentioned, because most meta professions sit around that number. sure)... it is minor changes (for power reaper that is) in terms of DPS, and big changes in terms of burst potential in pvp/wvw/when playing pve in an unoptimized group. > > i am missing power infusions only and i dont use arc-dps (the chat dps-meter in the test area instead) .... and my numbers are 28kdps flat with the new soul reaping. > blood magic is still close behind with about 1.5k dps less but giving vampiric presence (which translates to another 1k grp dps) > considering the power infusions, a dps-meter difference AND an uncompleted rotation i see minmaxed dps at roughly 30k - if it were to reach that point. > > i also hear the pvp sub forums crying about the reaper _burst_, because its freaking 300 AOE. > > however. i am not the one to complain since "unoptimized groups in pve" is what i play most of the time, if i am not playing wvw, and there the necro really shines now. > it feels like a green coloured DH with a scythe transformation and more HP. Can't, is 4AM here and I am only up to watch the Asian games. Although I was more trying to point out that the incentive is now there to use shroud skills more now in realistic raid situations instead of GS2 spam for safe dps. Not really that the damage is now meta. I think people here expected around 30kish because 5% from SoU and 20% crit damage in shroud is about 5-7%ish overall damage? So previous SR bench is about 27k? So about 30k, maybe 31k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 It's below 30k. This is why I estimated 30k-31k. I don't get why everyone was expecting like 32k-33k. At least it's higher again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > It's below 30k. This is why I estimated 30k-31k. I don't get why everyone was expecting like 32k-33k. At least it's higher again. Oh it was one upped. It's closer to my estimate now. Yay xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 I'm curious now how hard we can get a Life Blast to hit. Dread isn't as terrible on core Necro due to the instant-cast fear in death shroud, and life blast isn't a slouch on damage. The extra Ferocity from Death Perception will certainly help it. I'd test myself, but my Power set is Zealots, not Zerker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 funny enough i do a similar rotation, but i cant get above 28somethingK dps. with just infusions missing... so basically three to four weapon swaps into axe (below 50%) + infusions pushes the benchmark to 30k. yay. thanks for figuring out a rotation! and nobody can say reaper rotation is boring now. in fact it feels like it is very susceptible to a screwed weapon swap, a big-kitten-stun or falling out of shroud. burst too needs some sort of preparation (compare it to DH if you like). dude, reaper players should be called skilled now, if they are able to pull that rotation flawless, hah! (i over exaggerate...? maybe, but just a tiny bit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 On par with no kit engineer. But still not on same spot like meta classes and it didn't fix anything for PvP or wvw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > It's below 30k. This is why I estimated 30k-31k. I don't get why everyone was expecting like 32k-33k. At least it's higher again. > > > > Oh it was one upped. > > > > > > > > It's closer to my estimate now. Yay xD > > Ähm. The DPS isn't 30.7 > > He got one number 30.7 but the overall DPS is lower. > Anyways. From my testings power reaper is on par with no kits engi DPS wise > > For the exact overall DPS: > (28,127+28,199+28,617+29,979+30,718)/5= 29,020 > > So the overall DPS is at 29,020. Oh and btw. You can achieve the same DPS by just using gravedigger and gs5+4 below 50% The last DPS number in the damage log is the average for the entire fight. It is not resetting the counter every time it displays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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