Avoid.2807 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The [latest balance update](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53000/game-update-notes-august-28-2018 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53000/game-update-notes-august-28-2018") introduced the following change: * Lingering Curse: The condition damage gained from this trait has been increased from 150 to 200. **This trait also changes Feast of Corruption into a new, area-affecting version called Devouring Darkness**. [This](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness#WvW "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Devouring_Darkness#WvW") new scepter skill, granted by equipping the [Lingering Curse](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse") trait, is extremely strong in WvW: * Boons Converted to Conditions: **3** * 10 second recharge time * 5 Targets * Ranged (900) AoE around the target (360) This skill (thus) suffers from the following problems: * This radius around the target is larger than that of enhanced shade radius (300; [sand Savant](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant#WvW")) * The attack occurs around the target regardless of the target's state (Blocking, Invulnerable, Evading); The attack will still hit the players around the target and thus convert their boons unless they are mitigating the attack themselves. * The low recharge time combined with the amount of boons converted to conditions results in a skill with an extreme amount of boon conversion power (corrupts/strips), if not effectively the highest in-game * There is no clear animation/tell for this **ranged** skill Taking all of this into consideration; This **weapon skill** is currently arguably stronger than any of the utility & profession (shade) skills. My personal recommendation to bring this skill into line with other abilities is to at least increase the recharge time to 20 seconds & to reduce the amount of boons converted to conditions to 1. Also The (AoE) attack should not occur if the actual target is not hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 That feeling when one weapon skill is stronger than half of the elite specializations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santso.9201 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Its The only way to generate lf on scepter...20s CD would kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialWL.7138 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Agree with this 100%. The fact that shades were being progressively nerfed since PoF launch only for this trait to come into the game is mind boggling. It's basically the strongest instant aoe corrupt in the game, stronger than shades were at the start of PoF launch, if not more so due to the too low 10s cd, effectively no tell and the attack going off regardless of the target being hit by the initial scepter skill. Skill needs to be nerfed into the ground, whether it be increased cd (30s if you want to keep the 3 boons corrupted in line with manifest sand shade) or reduce boon corruption to 1, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I'm guessing Anet added this to compete with Axe, given that Axe has all but wiped out Sceptre in WvW. Its sort of an answer to Unholy Feast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker.1725 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Hello, do the devs play gw2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avoid.2807 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > I'm guessing Anet added this to compete with Axe, given that Axe has all but wiped out Sceptre in WvW. Its sort of an answer to Unholy Feast. Perhaps, but that doesn't prevent you to run both of these weaponsets for even more boon conversion, which is arguably the main reason why you take necromancers in WvW anyway. Regardless; This skill is much better than Unholy Feast: * It's a ranged attack, the AoE occurs around the target * It converts more boons into conditions * It has a lower cast time * It has a lower recharge time * It deals way more damage * It provides a lot of Life Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.2740 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Additionally, the skill ignores Line of Sight, so you can cast it on walls and behind gates the same way you can do with torch5. And commander focus just got a whole lot easier too. \o/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avoid.2807 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"pete.2740" said: > Additionally, the skill ignores Line of Sight, so you can cast it on walls and behind gates the same way you can do with torch5. And commander focus just got a whole lot easier too. \o/ Yeah, I forgot to add the issue with the skill ignoring line of sight (LoS); Which is actually quite a big thing aswell as moving behind a wall won't prevent this skill from hitting you. And like you said: You can also hit siege and players inside WvW structures with this skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EremiteAngel.9765 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Necromancers can't have good things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialWL.7138 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"santso.9201" said: > Its The only way to generate lf on scepter...20s CD would kill it. There are plenty of ways to generate lf other than scepter 3 if you are really struggling with it, as a last resort don't take the trait and you will have prepatch scepter 3, you won't need the aoe boon corrupt for small scale (this is the only scenario where I can think of you struggling with lf as a necro). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 this skill is fine as it is. cause necromancer is supposed to have boonhate. there are soooo many boons in this game, and since all the nerfs to necros in the last month that reduced dmg, Sustain, boonhate on scourge anet gave necros here some needed boonhate back (but on core). it was a mess that boonhate lately was more or less only Warriors Task with its bubble. my Point is, if you fear that scourge has too much now, nerf scourge. because core necros dont have sand shades and core classs Need some buffs like that to become useful in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialWL.7138 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 You could nerf scourge, to the point that shades do no corrupts, but it doesn't stop this one trait and skill from being overpowered. So better not get used to it boy, cos it won't last. > @"Zero.3871" said: > my Point is, if you fear that scourge has too much now, nerf scourge. because core necros dont have sand shades and core classs Need some buffs like that to become useful in any way. Scourge hasn't got too much, this GM trait has got too much, which is the whole point of this thread, to bring to attention how overpowered it is in WvW. This thread isn't about nerfing scourge, it's about nerfing lingering curses :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialWL.7138 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Also, are you really wishing that core specs will be on par with elite specs? let's be realistic here, elite specs need to be overpowered cos $$$, don't kid yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"ImperialWL.7138" said: > > You could nerf scourge, to the point that shades do no corrupts, but it doesn't stop this one trait and skill from being overpowered. So better not get used to it boy, cos it won't last. > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > my Point is, if you fear that scourge has too much now, nerf scourge. because core necros dont have sand shades and core classs Need some buffs like that to become useful in any way. > > Scourge hasn't got too much, this GM trait has got too much, which is the whole point of this thread, to bring to attention how overpowered it is in WvW. This thread isn't about nerfing scourge, it's about nerfing lingering curses :) balancing is about the Performance of an whole class. lingering curse is a buff to core traitline. core necro is trash Tier since years, only those buffs can bring this class back to game. even with this skill/trait core is weaker than all the perma invul/block/dodge Warriors or holos that yolo push you with 10k hits or the Unlimited mobility out of nowhere oneshots from DE or mirages… so where is the Problem if core necro also have such a strong skill to fight back? it is so funny that everytime another class have OP skills everyone say, its fine, its warrior he is supposed to be OP. its mesmer he is supposed to oneshot People out of nowhere. but necro got just 1 good skill and everyone say, ITS op! nerf… i will never undeerstand that community…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialWL.7138 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 What I'm trying to say is, there is a reason that core classes are shit compared to elite specs, so don't bother getting your hopes up about them ever being brought up to par with elite specs. Yes there are some exceptions (S/D thief, core warrior) but that's all they will ever be, exceptions. Look at the meta comps of every WvW guild/PvP team/PvE raid, do you see core classes? Even if this trait doesn't get changed and you get to keep it on core necro, nobody in their right mind would play core necro over scourge or reaper, and it's laughably easy to delete a core necro no matter what they're running. So yea, your reason for wanting to keep this trait doesn't make a lot of sense, although I get where you're coming from, but scourge is finally in a somewhat balanced state, with actual build variety (small shades vs big shades, curses vs blood) whereas this lingering curses forces everyone to take it in WvW because of how insanely strong it is. If that doesn't warrant a nerf I don't know what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"ImperialWL.7138" said: > What I'm trying to say is, there is a reason that core classes are kitten compared to elite specs, so don't bother getting your hopes up about them ever being brought up to par with elite specs. Yes there are some exceptions (S/D thief, core warrior) but that's all they will ever be, exceptions. Look at the meta comps of every WvW guild/PvP team/PvE raid, do you see core classes? Even if this trait doesn't get changed and you get to keep it on core necro, nobody in their right mind would play core necro over scourge or reaper, and it's laughably easy to delete a core necro no matter what they're running. > > So yea, your reason for wanting to keep this trait doesn't make a lot of sense, although I get where you're coming from, but scourge is finally in a somewhat balanced state, with actual build variety (small shades vs big shades, curses vs blood) whereas this lingering curses forces everyone to take it in WvW because of how insanely strong it is. If that doesn't warrant a nerf I don't know what does. before nerfing lingering curse, nerf full counter, meteor, mesmer shatter, death judgment,...and so on. there are enough broken skills in this game. and this skill is not just strong, it has limiting factors.if you hit an enemy that has no boons, and no condis, this skill is doing **nothing**. but yeah i also see your Point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINKAZZATORE.8135 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"Zero.3871" said: > > @"ImperialWL.7138" said: > > What I'm trying to say is, there is a reason that core classes are kitten compared to elite specs, so don't bother getting your hopes up about them ever being brought up to par with elite specs. Yes there are some exceptions (S/D thief, core warrior) but that's all they will ever be, exceptions. Look at the meta comps of every WvW guild/PvP team/PvE raid, do you see core classes? Even if this trait doesn't get changed and you get to keep it on core necro, nobody in their right mind would play core necro over scourge or reaper, and it's laughably easy to delete a core necro no matter what they're running. > > > > So yea, your reason for wanting to keep this trait doesn't make a lot of sense, although I get where you're coming from, but scourge is finally in a somewhat balanced state, with actual build variety (small shades vs big shades, curses vs blood) whereas this lingering curses forces everyone to take it in WvW because of how insanely strong it is. If that doesn't warrant a nerf I don't know what does. > > before nerfing lingering curse, nerf full counter, meteor, mesmer shatter, death judgment,...and so on. there are enough broken skills in this game. and this skill is not just strong, it has limiting factors.if you hit an enemy that has no boons, and no condis, this skill is doing **nothing**. > > but yeah i also see your Point. Everything you said is either melee or line of sight required to drop aoe/hit at all Scepter 3 atm doesn't need line of sight, is ranged and aoe on 10s cd unlike the other skills Just because other skills are also good doesn't mean this isn't broken and shouldn't be fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf Kai.3682 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"Zero.3871" said: > > @"ImperialWL.7138" said: > > > > You could nerf scourge, to the point that shades do no corrupts, but it doesn't stop this one trait and skill from being overpowered. So better not get used to it boy, cos it won't last. > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said: > > > > > my Point is, if you fear that scourge has too much now, nerf scourge. because core necros dont have sand shades and core classs Need some buffs like that to become useful in any way. > > > > Scourge hasn't got too much, this GM trait has got too much, which is the whole point of this thread, to bring to attention how overpowered it is in WvW. This thread isn't about nerfing scourge, it's about nerfing lingering curses :) > > balancing is about the Performance of an whole class. lingering curse is a buff to core traitline. core necro is trash Tier since years, only those buffs can bring this class back to game. even with this skill/trait core is weaker than all the perma invul/block/dodge Warriors or holos that yolo push you with 10k hits or the Unlimited mobility out of nowhere oneshots from DE or mirages… so where is the Problem if core necro also have such a strong skill to fight back? it is so funny that everytime another class have OP skills everyone say, its fine, its warrior he is supposed to be OP. its mesmer he is supposed to oneshot People out of nowhere. but necro got just 1 good skill and everyone say, ITS op! nerf… i will never undeerstand that community…. > Eh, I think people call for nerfs on those too..... To contribute to the thread, the skill does at the very least need a CD increase. 10s is way too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 EZ fix WvW split "This skill will now can corrupt max 9-8 boons, when multiple targets are hit, corruption is evenly distributed" or " In WvW number of corruped conditions 1" =5max ez no need to kill entire class 1st variant is better cuz there are ppl who roam on necro too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Honestly I'm cool with it, you have to give up a lot to use this skill. If you're playing condi necro, you hit like a limp hotdog compared to power. If you're playing power you give up 200 power/500 armor/condition damage reduction/ protection, 33% crit/300 ferocity/reduced CDs/LF gen/damage modifiers, or damage modifiers/250 power/perm 25 might. For 180 precision, 1 corrupt, new scepter skill (3 corrupt). With the buffs to power reaper, it's kind of crazy not to run it. 267% crit damage is kind of nuts to not be using lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > EZ fix > > WvW split > > "This skill will now can corrupt max 9-8 boons, when multiple targets are hit, corruption is evenly distributed" > > or > > " In WvW number of corruped conditions 1" =5max ez no need to kill entire class > > 1st variant is better cuz there are ppl who roam on necro too :) Wait. Wasn't this skill only corrupting 2 boons in wvw? So its maximum 10 boons corrupted when hitting 5 people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekretaal.6485 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 It's beyond clear that WvW needs a counter to the strategy of "run around in a tight ball and be invincible with all of the boons and heals." I welcome this new skill which is not OP except to counter that one strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avoid.2807 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > Wait. Wasn't this skill only corrupting 2 boons in wvw? > So its maximum 10 boons corrupted when hitting 5 people This skill is currently converting 3 boons to conditions in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialWL.7138 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > With the buffs to power reaper, it's kind of crazy not to run it. 267% crit damage is kind of nuts to not be using lol Absolutely. Reaper>scourge 100% because some extra stats and quickness which was otherwise not obtainable :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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