thrag.9740 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > If cooldowns really don't matter as you're protesting, then why do we have them to begin with ? Never said they don't matter, I said, that multiplying cooldowns by .8 doesn't make them meaningless. > @"TexZero.7910" said: > They are a neccessary gate and changing them drastically warps their innate power. This changes how all balance has to be factored and Anet still has not gotten this down and probably wont for a while. Yeah all boons drastically warps the power of skills. Most classes can't break 10k with their meta builds without boons. Then with boons they are at 35k or so. You think alacrity is the only factor there? Can't I say the same thing about quickness? Isn't the cast time of a skill a "neccessary" gate, and changing it drastically warps its innate power? What makes alacrity so special? Skills like warrior banner res, druid spirit res, and necro signet res, quickness makes these skills way more powerful. Name one time in this games life pre-hot where you think Anet was doing great at balancing. > @"TexZero.7910" said: > Removing 25% of a cooldown is extremely significant considering as you put it " Do you just love slow rotations based around autoattacking". See this, you literally don't even know what alacrity does. Alacrity doesn't remove 25% of a cooldown, it speeds your rate through time by 25%. I.e. your dividing your cooldown by 1.25, which is multiplying by .8, i.e. your reducing cooldowns to 80% of original value, or removing 20% of its cool down. Considering your proposing the removal of an entire boon, you could at least bother to know what that boon does. > @"TexZero.7910" said: > Or are Hyperbolic statements only okay when you make them ? I don't think my statement is hyperbolic. If I'm in a raid, and I don't have alacrity, it feels sluggish to me, and I think most experienced raiders can confirm. Not having alacrity feels slow. Maybe that's just because we are use to it, but I use to feel that way a lot more back in dungeon days when low manning. I don't think anyone ever thinks, 'I don't mind when bosses move out of my plague lands because alacrity makes the cooldown irrelevant'. > @"TexZero.7910" said: > The power creep that shared alacrity introduced is immense and needs to be removed for a healthier gamestate. Yeah except it didn't. All pve content that existed before alacrity, is almost completely uninfluenced by alacrity. Before alacrity entered the game, pve had dungeons and fractals up to level 50. In that content, if your running in a serious group, nearly all enemies die within the time of a single break bar (or back in pre-hot times, with defiance stacks, within the time of a icebow 5 -2headshots w/unshared basi venom + steal - icebow 5 combo). Alacrity is irrelevant in that context, because you won't be using any skill a 2nd time in such a short fight. If anything, you should be complaining that quickness power creeped the game, because all the old content like dungeons have been drastically power creeped by the large availability of quickness. Quickness use to be something you would get once in a dungeon run, maybe twice, from time warp. Now we have wells and firebrands giving it out frequently. Quickness actually does influence burst damage, and is much more relevant in all core content, unless your this worried about world bosses in which case, go to a different forum, because this one is about raids,fractals, and dungeons. In short, all pve content where alacrity is relevant, entered the game after alacrity did. So no, alacrity didn't power creep anything besides the sustained dps values at a golem, but the golem also didn't exist before alacrity so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"thrag.9740" said: > In short, all pve content where alacrity is relevant, entered the game after alacrity did. So no, alacrity didn't power creep anything besides the sustained dps values at a golem, but the golem also didn't exist before alacrity so.... Not quoting your entire wall of contradictions. It's pretty clear just by your last statement here that even you can acknowledge alacrity warped balance. That's before you go back to your "feels" about sluggish gameplay. So it is a balance issue at its core. I'll admit that quickness is also a problem and something i'd also reduce significantly, but that's not within my power to do so. Only Anet can acknowledge that they've goofed hard and power crept things to absurd levels and course correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > In short, all pve content where alacrity is relevant, entered the game after alacrity did. So no, alacrity didn't power creep anything besides the sustained dps values at a golem, but the golem also didn't exist before alacrity so.... > > Not quoting your entire wall of contradictions. > Yeah because you came into a discussion about alacrity and literally didn't even know what it does, of course your gona downplay that. Have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pridedemon.3041 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > > > > > > Havhing 100% quickness is extremely borken and something i am sure ANET never intended. I have raided in WoW since the BC era and having something like quickness should only be extremely limited. Like in WoW we had shamans giving Heroism and eventually mages with timewarp for 40 secs and those were used strategically for burn phases. No other profession can even remotely match the quickness uptime chrono's got. > > > > > > And oh, on a completely different side, mesmers can also burst a 28k necro from 100% to 0% in pvp within 1 sec if they messes their initial dodge timing. So yeah, its not like mesmers don't have extremely high burst, they can do anything they want, its just that in fractals and raids they are support meta. > > > > > > > > > > Firebrand can match quickness. > > > > > Also 25 might is roughly same damage incresee as quickness (better for some builds and worse for others) and there are numerous builds that can provide 25 might. > > > > > > > > 25 might doesn't give the same damage as quickness, as every comp that is even remotely meta assumes you have both. > > > > > > I dont understand your point. Can you explain that more please? > > > > Damage output = (raw damage) * (might modifier) * (quickness modifier) * (all other modifiers). > > > > Let's assume (might modifier) = (quickness modifier). > > > > You still can't compensate for quickness with might, as you can't have 50 might and you're already assumed to have 25 at all times. > > Thats true. He argued that 100% uptime on quickness is broken and that this level of dps boost should be only for short burst phases. I countered with the fact that modifire from quickness is not that much better then modifier from might (and definitly on same level as might+fury) but those modifires are completely fine. The fact that quickness is rarer doesnt change the fact that similar modifier is not broken. > After anet fix the firebrand mantras there will be competition and we can start talking about nerfs. > But in pve there will always be best option, be it dps slot, might stacker or quickness bot. You can clear raids with core necromancers as you can with firebrands/renegades. Many professions can have perma 25 stacks of might with trait/build/runes combination. How many professions can have perma quickness/alacrity? Don't deny the fact chrono support is broken. And genious i already mentioned that mesmer can burst in pvp if they run zerk so they have options They are meta in both pvp and pve. Compare it to ele now. Hoe many you see in t4 fractal CM's? And in pvp ele are restricted to mediocre support only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > > > > > > > Havhing 100% quickness is extremely borken and something i am sure ANET never intended. I have raided in WoW since the BC era and having something like quickness should only be extremely limited. Like in WoW we had shamans giving Heroism and eventually mages with timewarp for 40 secs and those were used strategically for burn phases. No other profession can even remotely match the quickness uptime chrono's got. > > > > > > > And oh, on a completely different side, mesmers can also burst a 28k necro from 100% to 0% in pvp within 1 sec if they messes their initial dodge timing. So yeah, its not like mesmers don't have extremely high burst, they can do anything they want, its just that in fractals and raids they are support meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > Firebrand can match quickness. > > > > > > Also 25 might is roughly same damage incresee as quickness (better for some builds and worse for others) and there are numerous builds that can provide 25 might. > > > > > > > > > > 25 might doesn't give the same damage as quickness, as every comp that is even remotely meta assumes you have both. > > > > > > > > I dont understand your point. Can you explain that more please? > > > > > > Damage output = (raw damage) * (might modifier) * (quickness modifier) * (all other modifiers). > > > > > > Let's assume (might modifier) = (quickness modifier). > > > > > > You still can't compensate for quickness with might, as you can't have 50 might and you're already assumed to have 25 at all times. > > > > Thats true. He argued that 100% uptime on quickness is broken and that this level of dps boost should be only for short burst phases. I countered with the fact that modifire from quickness is not that much better then modifier from might (and definitly on same level as might+fury) but those modifires are completely fine. The fact that quickness is rarer doesnt change the fact that similar modifier is not broken. > > After anet fix the firebrand mantras there will be competition and we can start talking about nerfs. > > But in pve there will always be best option, be it dps slot, might stacker or quickness bot. You can clear raids with core necromancers as you can with firebrands/renegades. > > > Many professions can have perma 25 stacks of might with trait/build/runes combination. > How many professions can have perma quickness/alacrity? Don't deny the fact chrono support is broken. And genious i already mentioned that mesmer can burst in pvp if they run zerk so they have options > They are meta in both pvp and pve. Compare it to ele now. Hoe many you see in t4 fractal CM's? And in pvp ele are restricted to mediocre support only STOP using the ALL TRAITS ALL UTILITIES build. No class has all that available. Support build chrono does not burst (not even near what actual burst builds can do). Period. Yes, the class can re-spec and take different stats on gear and burst. How is that in any way relevant to the support discussion? You are just asking to not be taken serious. Tempest is the best healer in game, and until the last nerf weaver was top dps. No elementalist in game had access to both at the same time. Just like mesmer don't have access to all their traits when they go support build. EDIT: and about 4 weeks ago the CM meta was 2 weaver, 1 bs, 1 druid and 1 chrono OR 3 weaver, 1 bs, 1 chrono. So as elementalist I'd really not start barking up the fractal tree only because weaver was toned down (yet remains a strong fractal pick). Elementalists had 2-3 CM spots for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pridedemon.3041 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I think you are either in total denial or english is not your language. I clearly said mesmers are meta in every game mode and they can have the best of either side. They can have the best support build for pve which is 2nd to none or they can also have the best burst in pvp/wvw so they are currently top tier in every single game mode. I am not gonna reply you anymore, your avatar is telling the story. Enjoy your broken mesmer while you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > I think you are either in total denial or english is not your language. > I clearly said mesmers are meta in every game mode and they can have the best of either side. > They can have the best support build for pve which is 2nd to none or they can also have the best burst in pvp/wvw so they are currently top tier in every single game mode. > I am not gonna reply you anymore, your avatar is telling the story. Enjoy your broken mesmer while you can Yet this discussion is about raids and support chrono. Sorry you just enjoy lumping everything together without sticking to the issue at hand. It's even in the title: DRUID AND CHRONO. Yes, my main is a mesmer, I have played her since 2 weeks after launch through all bugs and years of the class being total craap. No, she was not my main or first raid character. I also play 4 other classes in raids and have 23 level 80s with enough ascended gear to gear all 23 out. My main interest is in keeping raids balanced and fun both class wise but also group composition and management wise. I don't currently run a full static any more and the hassle which that brings is enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > Many professions can have perma 25 stacks of might with trait/build/runes combination. > How many professions can have perma quickness/alacrity? Yes, many classes can upkeep might, but those classes break 25k dps. Chrono upkeeping quickness/alacrity doesn't break 10k dps. So the comparison is unfounded. Find me another class that specs for boon support (not healing) while having 9k dps, and Ill show you a class that should have quickness + alacrity. But a class like firebrand, that can upkeep quickness with 25k dps, doesn't deserve alacrity without lowering its dps down to 10k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > I think you are either in total denial or english is not your language. > I clearly said mesmers are meta in every game mode and they can have the best of either side. > They can have the best support build for pve which is 2nd to none or they can also have the best burst in pvp/wvw so they are currently top tier in every single game mode. > I am not gonna reply you anymore, your avatar is telling the story. Enjoy your broken mesmer while you can K bye. Not quite sure how much discussion you can add when you come to fractal/raid thread complaining about WvW/PvP. Back to the topic. If firebrand got fixed and firebrand/renegade is a thing, which one of them should replace druid in healing without significant dps loss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"polvere.2805" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > In short, all pve content where alacrity is relevant, entered the game after alacrity did. So no, alacrity didn't power creep anything besides the sustained dps values at a golem, but the golem also didn't exist before alacrity so.... > > > > Not quoting your entire wall of contradictions. > > > > It's pretty clear just by your last statement here that even you can acknowledge alacrity warped balance. That's before you go back to your "feels" about sluggish gameplay. > > So it is a balance issue at its core. I'll admit that quickness is also a problem and something i'd also reduce significantly, but that's not within my power to do so. Only Anet can acknowledge that they've goofed hard and power crept things to absurd levels and course correct. > > > > Hurr i am not here to comment on the discusion you had with @"thrag.9740" but there is a thing that bothers me: > > You talking about absurd power creep, i honestly just see more fun mechanic that are added in game. TBH if anet really followed your advices i would probably leave the game and so a lot of other players would do. You basically are suggesting to remove fun mechanics that gives more depth to the gameplay (yeah even having to click 1 more button is depth, cause if you add 5 new mech now you press 5 more buttons! guess what: is what we are doing in this game). I don't really want to get back to 4 warrior 1 mesmer, or 4 ele and 1 mesmer. That was absolutely boring (it made me stop playing gw2 only to come back with the expansion). > > It's obvious that you have sometimes to tweak a thing or two, maybe some mechanics get out of hand. But hell removing some of them totally...would just make playing certain classes really boring. You had 10 tool, now in name of "balance" you have 5 ? Just wth. > > Instead give classes that are low on tools some more of them. Balance new encounters around what you are creating. Honestly raid for example are fun, the difficulty is not absurd, you can even pug them! And honestly in raid you can really play anything you want as long as you know the encounter. Sadly the last part in the community is what is missing the most. I've met players with A LOT of LI that don't know a sloth shroom pattern for instance. > I dont know who upvoted you for the really crass and absurd false equivocation and slippery slope but really ? What i said had nothing to do with being anywhere close to commiting hate crimes or cleansing people based on their orientation. To go there is an even grosser mistake than what the balance team did by introducing alacrity as a shared status and then shifting it to a boon. Now then, it's pretty painfully clear that those here who dont see that alacrity should be personal only do not grasp how drastically it has warped gameplay, even when by their own admission it went from "Slow and 1 button" (which is hyperbolic) to "Fast". The absurd notion that i do not know what alacrity does because i utilized the how its described via the in-game tool tips is also the worst demonstration of appeal to an unqualified authority i've ever seen. Just because i wrote it in the basic sense does not mean i do not understand how it functions, it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. Alacrity is a gameplay issue and one that could quite easily be rememdied by limiting it to being a personal only boon. Sharing alacrity is a mistake as it does blow power out of the water because the cooldowns are there to intentionally gate the power of skills, changing those cooldowns however small you may claim has an reprecussion on how powerful skills can be and should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"polvere.2805" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > > In short, all pve content where alacrity is relevant, entered the game after alacrity did. So no, alacrity didn't power creep anything besides the sustained dps values at a golem, but the golem also didn't exist before alacrity so.... > > > > > > Not quoting your entire wall of contradictions. > > > > > > It's pretty clear just by your last statement here that even you can acknowledge alacrity warped balance. That's before you go back to your "feels" about sluggish gameplay. > > > So it is a balance issue at its core. I'll admit that quickness is also a problem and something i'd also reduce significantly, but that's not within my power to do so. Only Anet can acknowledge that they've goofed hard and power crept things to absurd levels and course correct. > > > > > > > Hurr i am not here to comment on the discusion you had with @"thrag.9740" but there is a thing that bothers me: > > > > You talking about absurd power creep, i honestly just see more fun mechanic that are added in game. TBH if anet really followed your advices i would probably leave the game and so a lot of other players would do. You basically are suggesting to remove fun mechanics that gives more depth to the gameplay (yeah even having to click 1 more button is depth, cause if you add 5 new mech now you press 5 more buttons! guess what: is what we are doing in this game). I don't really want to get back to 4 warrior 1 mesmer, or 4 ele and 1 mesmer. That was absolutely boring (it made me stop playing gw2 only to come back with the expansion). > > > > It's obvious that you have sometimes to tweak a thing or two, maybe some mechanics get out of hand. But hell removing some of them totally...would just make playing certain classes really boring. You had 10 tool, now in name of "balance" you have 5 ? Just wth. > > > > Instead give classes that are low on tools some more of them. Balance new encounters around what you are creating. Honestly raid for example are fun, the difficulty is not absurd, you can even pug them! And honestly in raid you can really play anything you want as long as you know the encounter. Sadly the last part in the community is what is missing the most. I've met players with A LOT of LI that don't know a sloth shroom pattern for instance. > > > > I dont know who upvoted you for the really crass and absurd false equivocation and slippery slope but really ? > What i said had nothing to do with being anywhere close to commiting hate crimes or cleansing people based on their orientation. To go there is an even grosser mistake than what the balance team did by introducing alacrity as a shared status and then shifting it to a boon. > > Now then, it's pretty painfully clear that those here who dont see that alacrity should be personal only do not grasp how drastically it has warped gameplay, even when by their own admission it went from "Slow and 1 button" (which is hyperbolic) to "Fast". The absurd notion that i do not know what alacrity does because i utilized the how its described via the in-game tool tips is also the worst demonstration of appeal to an unqualified authority i've ever seen. Just because i wrote it in the basic sense does not mean i do not understand how it functions, it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. > > Alacrity is a gameplay issue and one that could quite easily be rememdied by limiting it to being a personal only boon. Sharing alacrity is a mistake as it does blow power out of the water because the cooldowns are there to intentionally gate the power of skills, changing those cooldowns however small you may claim has an reprecussion on how powerful skills can be and should be. If you remove might from the game many builds that were viable are usless (most condition builds). Compositions also count 25 might. As fir nicenikeshoes question i feel like neither. If you run this composition you go for maximum dps. Would probably be diferent if one of them could heal 10 players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xantaria.8726 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said: > > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > > I think you are either in total denial or english is not your language. > > I clearly said mesmers are meta in every game mode and they can have the best of either side. > > They can have the best support build for pve which is 2nd to none or they can also have the best burst in pvp/wvw so they are currently top tier in every single game mode. > > I am not gonna reply you anymore, your avatar is telling the story. Enjoy your broken mesmer while you can > > K bye. > > Not quite sure how much discussion you can add when you come to fractal/raid thread complaining about WvW/PvP. > > Back to the topic. If firebrand got fixed and firebrand/renegade is a thing, which one of them should replace druid in healing without significant dps loss? Well i would go for renegade when they could just add the stats condi dmg/condi duration/healpower/boonduration. And maybe buff renegade alac a little so that he dont need to spam his energy to uphold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. > @"TexZero.7910" said: >Removing 25% of a cooldown no, it wasn't accurate, and people will continue to read this thread, read your numbers, and have inaccurate information. For any inexperienced players reading this, let me be clear, alacrity removes 20% of a skills cooldown, if you have it for the entire time that skill is on cool down. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"thrag.9740" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > >Removing 25% of a cooldown > no, it wasn't accurate, and people will continue to read this thread, read your numbers, and have inaccurate information. > > For any inexperienced players reading this, let me be clear, alacrity removes 20% of a skills cooldown, if you have it for the entire time that skill is on cool down. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity). Right there in the wiki article you linked > Alacrity is a boon unique to mesmers specialized as chronomancers and revenants with the Salvation and the Renegade specializations. **It increases the rate at which skills recharge by 25%** So yes it's what i said. Sorry you are so particularly distraught over this language barrier but the wiki even says what i've said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > >Removing 25% of a cooldown > > no, it wasn't accurate, and people will continue to read this thread, read your numbers, and have inaccurate information. > > > > For any inexperienced players reading this, let me be clear, alacrity removes 20% of a skills cooldown, if you have it for the entire time that skill is on cool down. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity). > > Right there in the wiki article you linked > Alacrity is a boon unique to mesmers specialized as chronomancers and revenants with the Salvation and the Renegade specializations. **It increases the rate at which skills recharge by 25%** > > So yes it's what i said. Sorry you are so particularly distraught over this language barrier but the wiki even says what i've said. Increasing the rate of recharge by 25%is not the same as reducing the cool down with 25% Imagine a trait which increases the rate of recharge by 100% the cool down would then just be halved not completely gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > Alacrity is a boon unique to mesmers specialized as chronomancers and revenants with the Salvation and the Renegade specializations. It **increases the rate at which skills recharge by 25%** , therefore **making skills recharge in 80% of the original time**. This includes skills triggered by traits like Illusionary Inspiration Illusionary Inspiration, but not internal cooldowns of traits like Confounding Suggestions Confounding Suggestions. - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity Simply put: Your recharge rate is sped up (by 25%) which leads to skills being available sooner (20% faster). Skills recharge 1.25 seconds of their cooldown instead of the base 1 second per second. Thus a skill which takes 10 seconds recharges as follows: WITHOUT ALACRITY - **WITH ALACRITY** 0 - **0** 1 - **1.25** 2 - **2.5** 3 - **3.75** 4 - **5** 5 - **6.25** 6 - **7.5** 7 - **8.75** 8 - **10 (DONE)** 9 10 (DONE) It can be easy to confuse recharge rate with actual skill cool down reduction. The terms are not synonymous though. It actually goes to show that alacrity's effect on skill cool downs is a tad lower than the tool tip might suggest. Overall it remains a very powerful boon even after multiple nerfs. Mostly due to making rotations easier (or at all possible) and mistakes less problematic. Especially for long cool downs of over 60 seconds the reduction in cool down duration, which adds up to multiple seconds, can mean the difference between a skill being up again or not (say Spellbreaker Winds of Disenchantment on Dhuum which need alacrity to be up for each subsequent boon rip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > Many professions can have perma 25 stacks of might with trait/build/runes combination. > How many professions can have perma quickness/alacrity? Don't deny the fact chrono support is broken. That's not an argument that chrono support is broken. That's an argument that we should have more sources for perma quickness and alacrity After all, if perma 25 might is okay, because there are more than one professions that can give it, then perma quickness/alacrity now is not fine only because there are not more sources of it. Because, functionally, there's no difference of impact from those boons at all. If one is OP, they all are. If one is not OP, then they all aren't. > And genious i already mentioned that mesmer can burst in pvp if they run zerk so they have options Yeah, definitely, a viable build in PvP is an alternative option to a build in PvE. Right [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasoki.5180 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > > Many professions can have perma 25 stacks of might with trait/build/runes combination. > > How many professions can have perma quickness/alacrity? Don't deny the fact chrono support is broken. > That's not an argument that chrono support is broken. That's an argument that we should have more sources for perma quickness and alacrity > After all, if perma 25 might is okay, because there are more than one professions that can give it, then perma quickness/alacrity now is not fine only because there are not more sources of it. Because, functionally, there's no difference of impact from those boons at all. If one is OP, they all are. If one is not OP, then they all aren't. > Even though I partially agree with you, is this really what we want from the perspective of long term class design? Professions doing the exact same thing just with different coloured animations. I would really hate if Anet approach to balance becomes copying boon application from one profession unto others (which seems is where we are going). Boons are essentially a fundamental and core part of this game, contrary to their name "boon". And I don't think making professions same in terms of boon applications is smart choice in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"kasoki.5180" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Pridedemon.3041" said: > > > Many professions can have perma 25 stacks of might with trait/build/runes combination. > > > How many professions can have perma quickness/alacrity? Don't deny the fact chrono support is broken. > > That's not an argument that chrono support is broken. That's an argument that we should have more sources for perma quickness and alacrity > > After all, if perma 25 might is okay, because there are more than one professions that can give it, then perma quickness/alacrity now is not fine only because there are not more sources of it. Because, functionally, there's no difference of impact from those boons at all. If one is OP, they all are. If one is not OP, then they all aren't. > > > > > Even though I partially agree with you, is this really what we want from the perspective of long term class design? Professions doing the exact same thing just with different coloured animations. Apparently, yes, seeing the people's reaction to chrono doing something different than everyone else. There would definitely be differences, though, seeing as every potential alternative to chrono has either higher dps or healing. There would need to be some tradeoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > >Removing 25% of a cooldown > > > no, it wasn't accurate, and people will continue to read this thread, read your numbers, and have inaccurate information. > > > > > > For any inexperienced players reading this, let me be clear, alacrity removes 20% of a skills cooldown, if you have it for the entire time that skill is on cool down. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity). > > > > Right there in the wiki article you linked > Alacrity is a boon unique to mesmers specialized as chronomancers and revenants with the Salvation and the Renegade specializations. **It increases the rate at which skills recharge by 25%** > > > > So yes it's what i said. Sorry you are so particularly distraught over this language barrier but the wiki even says what i've said. > > Increasing the rate of recharge by 25%is not the same as reducing the cool down with 25% > > Imagine a trait which increases the rate of recharge by 100% the cool down would then just be halved not completely gone Except i never stated reducing anything. I said Removing, but this is getting absurdly pedantic because people need to feel superior when their own phrasing proves how game warping alacrity is at a base level even before you consider sharing it. It should be personal only to restrict how drastically it warps balance for every class (except thieves because for them it's only half as effective) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim.4596 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I have written a post about this and healing firebrand is actually viable in fractals and can take on the druid role. However, you cannot expect it to replace the chronomancer, as it doesnt give alacrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > You can't deny that Chrono is blatantly overpowered in just about every regard. > > Sure, that damage is way too OP [/sarcasm] > > DPS-Chrono isn't actually that bad with a benchmark of avg. 32.000 dps. Stuff like Reaper on the other hand is rejoicing finally beating the 30.000-border. You can also switch to Mirage which is also quite powerful and whose dps-benchmarks actually translate better into actual raid-scenarios due to losing no time due to Mirage's dodge-mechanics and due to having more bursty conditions. Sure, it's not really broken, but that's not the area where Chrono/Mesmer is broken anyway. Chrono is absolutely broken as support. > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > I agree, chrono is the only god tier class in the game currently. > > It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier. > > ...and that's just wrong. Other builds are fairly balanced. Chrono on the other hand brings: > * every single boon the game offers and the **only** class with access to both alacrity **and** quickness, > * ridiculously powerful defiance-bar-damage through Signet of Moa and various other skills, and > * several ridiculously powerful utilities/weapon-skills (focus 5, feedback, certain wells, etc.), who are superior in regards of usability and reliability. > > Face it, Chrono as support-build is downright broken. It does nearly everything besides damage far too well. It's Chrono that is utterly broken; it's not that the other support-builds are trash. Especially usability and reliability are huge factors - the Chrono/Druid combo simply outshines other possible combinations like Renegade/Firebrand. Chrono is god-tier in terms of support. Well actually scourge is trash tier support actually.Its barrier isn't really enough to compensate and instant rez is nice but niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > >Removing 25% of a cooldown > > > > no, it wasn't accurate, and people will continue to read this thread, read your numbers, and have inaccurate information. > > > > > > > > For any inexperienced players reading this, let me be clear, alacrity removes 20% of a skills cooldown, if you have it for the entire time that skill is on cool down. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity). > > > > > > Right there in the wiki article you linked > Alacrity is a boon unique to mesmers specialized as chronomancers and revenants with the Salvation and the Renegade specializations. **It increases the rate at which skills recharge by 25%** > > > > > > So yes it's what i said. Sorry you are so particularly distraught over this language barrier but the wiki even says what i've said. > > > > Increasing the rate of recharge by 25%is not the same as reducing the cool down with 25% > > > > Imagine a trait which increases the rate of recharge by 100% the cool down would then just be halved not completely gone > > Except i never stated reducing anything. I said Removing, but this is getting absurdly pedantic because people need to feel superior when their own phrasing proves how game warping alacrity is at a base level even before you consider sharing it. > > It should be personal only to restrict how drastically it warps balance for every class (except thieves because for them it's only half as effective) Removing 25% of a cooldown is the same as reducing the cooldown with 25%. It might be pedantic but you where the one who instead of saying "it appears I misspoke" went on to pull the wiki to proof you're right while being wrong. And I agree alacrity is really strong although it's strength also is very class dependant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 The main problem with "support" in this game is that it triples the dps of the team. To my knowledge there is no other game with such a difference in damage, between with-buffs and without-buffs. This essentially means that bosses need to be created with this triple dps in mind (otherwise they'll melt instantly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > it also does not change the fact that what i stated was accurate. > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > >Removing 25% of a cooldown > > > > > no, it wasn't accurate, and people will continue to read this thread, read your numbers, and have inaccurate information. > > > > > > > > > > For any inexperienced players reading this, let me be clear, alacrity removes 20% of a skills cooldown, if you have it for the entire time that skill is on cool down. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity). > > > > > > > > Right there in the wiki article you linked > Alacrity is a boon unique to mesmers specialized as chronomancers and revenants with the Salvation and the Renegade specializations. **It increases the rate at which skills recharge by 25%** > > > > > > > > So yes it's what i said. Sorry you are so particularly distraught over this language barrier but the wiki even says what i've said. > > > > > > Increasing the rate of recharge by 25%is not the same as reducing the cool down with 25% > > > > > > Imagine a trait which increases the rate of recharge by 100% the cool down would then just be halved not completely gone > > > > Except i never stated reducing anything. I said Removing, but this is getting absurdly pedantic because people need to feel superior when their own phrasing proves how game warping alacrity is at a base level even before you consider sharing it. > > > > It should be personal only to restrict how drastically it warps balance for every class (except thieves because for them it's only half as effective) > > Removing 25% of a cooldown is the same as reducing the cooldown with 25%. > > It might be pedantic but you where the one who instead of saying "it appears I misspoke" went on to pull the wiki to proof you're right while being wrong. > > And I agree alacrity is really strong although it's strength also is very class dependant. The fact that he continues to say he was right, shows that he did not misspeak, he literally just doesn't know what alacrity does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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