Broken Deadeye

[googel.3278]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"googel.3278" said:

> > a bland spec that is perfect for people with no brain, like how scourge was branded as a stupid spec with spamming, now its deadeyes turn.

>

> Its exhausting keeping a 100% stealth uptime :trollface:

>

 

could imagine, angry enemies chasing the stealthed, prob chased around the whole map if it calls for it

[Kayowin.9217]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"The Ronin.4673" said:

> > Hello guys

> > can someone say, in gods name, how deadeye get unblockable shots?

>

> Death's Judgement....Stealth Rifle auto attack. Its the only unblockable attack they have on rifle

>

 

And to clarify on Papa's comment a bit further, if you lead with Deaths Judgement without malice, (and are revealed for several sec every time you use DJ, which limits the amount of times you can use it) it hits like a wet noodle even with full zerk or zerk + valk which is what I run. There is so much projectile hate in the game otherwise and without DJ being unblockable, you would see far more of the malicious backstabs which I would think is a far worse issue. (At least you have an easily distinguishable tell with the DJ attack)

 

Malicious backstab is where the big damage #'s is at for DE unless they changed it on the last patch. (I believe it is still 100% viable but I don't use it) Rifle DE is not as, easy... as some people might think. It is great for wearing down single support or glass backline targets which can be fun if you can stay alive long enough due to the channeled skills and numerous passive/active reveals out there. As previously mentioned, one channeled skill is usually all it takes to take the DE out if you are fast enough. (As you need to be nearly full glass on rifle to do enough damage to take out targets with SA traitline) DE's roaming in pairs is usually preferred.

[Kayowin.9217]

> @"googel.3278" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"googel.3278" said:

> > > a bland spec that is perfect for people with no brain, like how scourge was branded as a stupid spec with spamming, now its deadeyes turn.

> >

> > Its exhausting keeping a 100% stealth uptime :trollface:

> >

>

> could imagine, angry enemies chasing the stealthed, prob chased around the whole map if it calls for it

 

This happens a lot. :)

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> DE's roaming in pairs is usually preferred.

while in pairs you can fight larger groups, the deadeyes efficiency within WvW comes from avoiding fights so for warscore it is more efficient IMO to run solo as a deadeye not in pairs. yet obviously if you only want to kill people stacking numbers will get you more bags, thats why people run in large blobs :3

 

[Kayowin.9217]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> > DE's roaming in pairs is usually preferred.

> while in pairs you can fight larger groups, the deadeyes efficiency within WvW comes from avoiding fights so for warscore it is more efficient IMO to run solo as a deadeye not in pairs. yet obviously if you only want to kill people stacking numbers will get you more bags, thats why people run in large blobs :3

>

 

Good point.

 

My skill level is just average with DE though so I am always looking to do a duet as it is fun when you can get people off the tail to chase you and lure them to their doom. (I normally play Scrapper) As a single DE they usually get rezzed too fast and again, I am speaking from the rifle perspective. M-Backstab is a different approach as the down can be secured much faster with little warning against squishies.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> > > DE's roaming in pairs is usually preferred.

> > while in pairs you can fight larger groups, the deadeyes efficiency within WvW comes from avoiding fights so for warscore it is more efficient IMO to run solo as a deadeye not in pairs. yet obviously if you only want to kill people stacking numbers will get you more bags, thats why people run in large blobs :3

> >

>

> Good point.

>

> My skill level is just average with DE though so I am always looking to do a duet as it is fun when you can get people off the tail to chase you and lure them to their doom. (I normally play Scrapper) As a single DE they usually get rezzed too fast and again, I am speaking from the rifle perspective. M-Backstab is a different approach as the down can be secured much faster with little warning against squishies.

 

i find that its mostly easier to stomp people that you have downed with a rifle in outnumbered fights, because rifle allows you to seperate your opponents. they have to focus on 2 points you and the target. with dagger their attention and probably position is stacked wich makes it alot harder to stomp before they rez.

its also alot easier for a deadeye to kill a target that he can predict, wich can be difficult if the deadeye has allies that affect the opponent, an NPC is often a better ally for a deadeye as it is a predictable distraction.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

> > >

> > > ^^This.

> > > OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.

> > > And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.

> > > But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

> >

> > Well arguing high damage its pretty pointless. Some players just optimize fully for it on a class they know exactly how to play and/or macro. A thief should be capable of that. I've seen a measly guardian dump 25k+ damage in 0.2 seconds on 1800+ toughness.

>

> With only 1 stack of malice however, it would (imo) require a LOT of perfect scenarios to achieve (both glass canons, OP being light armored, attacker neding every damage boost known PLUS to be ghost at the same time). Ill have to do some math next time I am on as it seems very unlikely 1x 1 stack malice DJ did that much.

 

I was hitting that hard from my DE against zerker light armored classes like Memeser.

 

I ran DA with extra power on reveal, CS traits, use stolen skills twice and the might stacking trait from it for free might, also ran the signet which gives over 500 raw power to mix in with the 200 power from the trait so by the time I used DJ I had self stacked 20 might and added another 700 raw power to the hit. Also uses the cantrip for the 3s knockdown for super easy set ups.

 

Havent played DE in a while though, things could have changed.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

> > > >

> > > > ^^This.

> > > > OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.

> > > > And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.

> > > > But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

> > >

> > > Well arguing high damage its pretty pointless. Some players just optimize fully for it on a class they know exactly how to play and/or macro. A thief should be capable of that. I've seen a measly guardian dump 25k+ damage in 0.2 seconds on 1800+ toughness.

> >

> > With only 1 stack of malice however, it would (imo) require a LOT of perfect scenarios to achieve (both glass canons, OP being light armored, attacker neding every damage boost known PLUS to be ghost at the same time). Ill have to do some math next time I am on as it seems very unlikely 1x 1 stack malice DJ did that much.

>

> I was hitting that hard from my DE against zerker light armored classes like Memeser.

>

> I ran DA with extra power on reveal, CS traits, use stolen skills twice and the might stacking trait from it for free might, also ran the signet which gives over 500 raw power to mix in with the 200 power from the trait so by the time I used DJ I had self stacked 20 might and added another 700 raw power to the hit. Also uses the cantrip for the 3s knockdown for super easy set ups.

>

> Havent played DE in a while though, things could have changed.

 

that is a very stupid overkill then at the cost of a lot of sustain, with wich it would be really funny if he killed an entire group.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > > I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > ^^This.

> > > > > OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.

> > > > > And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.

> > > > > But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

> > > >

> > > > Well arguing high damage its pretty pointless. Some players just optimize fully for it on a class they know exactly how to play and/or macro. A thief should be capable of that. I've seen a measly guardian dump 25k+ damage in 0.2 seconds on 1800+ toughness.

> > >

> > > With only 1 stack of malice however, it would (imo) require a LOT of perfect scenarios to achieve (both glass canons, OP being light armored, attacker neding every damage boost known PLUS to be ghost at the same time). Ill have to do some math next time I am on as it seems very unlikely 1x 1 stack malice DJ did that much.

> >

> > I was hitting that hard from my DE against zerker light armored classes like Memeser.

> >

> > I ran DA with extra power on reveal, CS traits, use stolen skills twice and the might stacking trait from it for free might, also ran the signet which gives over 500 raw power to mix in with the 200 power from the trait so by the time I used DJ I had self stacked 20 might and added another 700 raw power to the hit. Also uses the cantrip for the 3s knockdown for super easy set ups.

> >

> > Havent played DE in a while though, things could have changed.

>

> that is a very stupid overkill then at the cost of a lot of sustain, with wich it would be really funny if he killed an entire group.

 

the whole point of the build I ran was to kill people before they knew what hit them... You dont need to sustain anything if theres nothing attacking you hehe

 

also... not sure if you still can but you can bug your malice cap to full on white animals while running around before engaging someone, run around and mark about 5 whites then it should bug out, or atleast it used too.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > > > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > > > I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ^^This.

> > > > > > OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.

> > > > > > And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.

> > > > > > But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

> > > > >

> > > > > Well arguing high damage its pretty pointless. Some players just optimize fully for it on a class they know exactly how to play and/or macro. A thief should be capable of that. I've seen a measly guardian dump 25k+ damage in 0.2 seconds on 1800+ toughness.

> > > >

> > > > With only 1 stack of malice however, it would (imo) require a LOT of perfect scenarios to achieve (both glass canons, OP being light armored, attacker neding every damage boost known PLUS to be ghost at the same time). Ill have to do some math next time I am on as it seems very unlikely 1x 1 stack malice DJ did that much.

> > >

> > > I was hitting that hard from my DE against zerker light armored classes like Memeser.

> > >

> > > I ran DA with extra power on reveal, CS traits, use stolen skills twice and the might stacking trait from it for free might, also ran the signet which gives over 500 raw power to mix in with the 200 power from the trait so by the time I used DJ I had self stacked 20 might and added another 700 raw power to the hit. Also uses the cantrip for the 3s knockdown for super easy set ups.

> > >

> > > Havent played DE in a while though, things could have changed.

> >

> > that is a very stupid overkill then at the cost of a lot of sustain, with wich it would be really funny if he killed an entire group.

>

> the whole point of the build I ran was to kill people before they knew what hit them... You dont need to sustain anything if theres nothing attacking you hehe

>

> also... not sure if you still can but you can bug your malice cap to full on white animals while running around before engaging someone, run around and mark about 5 whites then it should bug out, or atleast it used too.

 

that was just in the first few weeks after PoF, before DJ malice bonus was changed to only for the marked target and before the DE rework.

 

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > > > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > > > > I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ^^This.

> > > > > > > OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.

> > > > > > > And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.

> > > > > > > But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well arguing high damage its pretty pointless. Some players just optimize fully for it on a class they know exactly how to play and/or macro. A thief should be capable of that. I've seen a measly guardian dump 25k+ damage in 0.2 seconds on 1800+ toughness.

> > > > >

> > > > > With only 1 stack of malice however, it would (imo) require a LOT of perfect scenarios to achieve (both glass canons, OP being light armored, attacker neding every damage boost known PLUS to be ghost at the same time). Ill have to do some math next time I am on as it seems very unlikely 1x 1 stack malice DJ did that much.

> > > >

> > > > I was hitting that hard from my DE against zerker light armored classes like Memeser.

> > > >

> > > > I ran DA with extra power on reveal, CS traits, use stolen skills twice and the might stacking trait from it for free might, also ran the signet which gives over 500 raw power to mix in with the 200 power from the trait so by the time I used DJ I had self stacked 20 might and added another 700 raw power to the hit. Also uses the cantrip for the 3s knockdown for super easy set ups.

> > > >

> > > > Havent played DE in a while though, things could have changed.

> > >

> > > that is a very stupid overkill then at the cost of a lot of sustain, with wich it would be really funny if he killed an entire group.

> >

> > the whole point of the build I ran was to kill people before they knew what hit them... You dont need to sustain anything if theres nothing attacking you hehe

> >

> > also... not sure if you still can but you can bug your malice cap to full on white animals while running around before engaging someone, run around and mark about 5 whites then it should bug out, or atleast it used too.

>

> that was just in the first few weeks after PoF, before DJ malice bonus was changed to only for the marked target and before the DE rework.

>

 

last Time I played DE was after the rework but ill have to check again if it still works... It was a bug with the mug trait so not part of the intended changes

 

EDIT: I must have played the week of the changes but not after, bug has been fixed... Just hopped on my Thief then

[kmfart.7480]

Not long ago, I saw a DE suddenly pop from stealth infront of me for fractions of a second, so i instantly stealthed aswell... and that was basically the end of that encounter, we never saw eachother again that matchup. Was hilarious! :-)

 

I rate DE as perhaps the weakest of all in its current state, even though I still play it. He can stealth & use stealth attacks and thats basically all he can do, if a DE meets a guy who isnt a noob that can sustain dmg, the DE will usually have to retreat, as he cannot do anything that can match other professions in regular combat.

 

I think I recall doing a 42k crit once, but thats definately not on players. But if you are taking 35k from a burst, you definately need to rethink your armor & traits & stop using PvE raid gear in wvw.

 

[Imperadordf.2687]

OP is lying, there is no way that amount of damage could have ever dealt in "less than a second after the mark".

[MUDse.7623]

OP as i have seen you today in your air keep and considering your rank and tag i did fight a group with one that could be you in that questionable night a few times. do you remember how the DE looked ?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> OP as i have seen you today in your air keep and considering your rank and tag i did fight a group with one that could be you in that questionable night a few times. do you remember how the DE looked ?

 

Ooooooo time to grab my popcorn, this may get interesting

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

>

> I only see the traps used to try to prevent a single deadeye from permanently contesting a keep for 8 straight hours and on tower defenses from hopefully stopping a portal bomb. It works on the latter, and not on the former, but it should. Every build in the game (or action) should have a counterplay. Right now, there is 0 counterplay to a permastealth deadeye contesting a structure (by doing all of 0 damage to it). It would just be nice for Anet to clarify if this is working as intended. Anet could always go another route, and just make it so that only siege damage can contest a structure, that would solve both problems. It would allow deadeye the ability to avoid the 30 second reveal of the traps (or any other reveal source) and prevent the abuse that the trap seems intended to prevent.

 

It could be argued that the introduction of the Deadeye elite is meant to indicate that the entire purpose of stealth traps was to catch mesmers hidden in keeps to portals, not chase a solo thief with five people.

 

Where does this 0 counterplay mantra people spew out come from? There's counter play. I kill many deadeyes every day and when I am on mine, people sometimes get me too. Mudse is nice enough to explain how and whys and instead of learning people would rather complain.

[Syrus.2174]

I had an interesting experience with someone playing a Deadeye earlier. Interesting, in the "not fun" kind of way, sadly. The class, or its mechanics, seems very broken to me.

For a few hours (!) a Deadeye ran around one of our forts, tagging it, destroying siege and killing players. Constantly being stealthed until the moment he struck.

 

When I finally caught him destroying stuff on the outer wall, I put down a Stealth Trap to help me, playing a Sword/Dagger Weaver, combat his stealth, since my class has no way of countering it. Thing is, despite him running into the trap, he stealthed right away again - so much for the 10 supplies and badges I wasted. At first the fight seemed to go slightly in favor to me, having almost killed him after he stealth disengaged a few times, but when he stealthed yet again and ambushed for another time (all still in fight), he was back on full health, pretty much showing the absolute futility of fighting this class. Obviously death was quick to follow, as they appear to get more powerful the longer the fight goes - a single 11+k hit was pretty much the end of it.

I don't see the fun in fighting against this class. This is not a challange, this is just a question of whether the Deadeye knows he can kill you, or you getting lucky and maybe getting that crit that finally kills him, or him realizing he can't kill you and just disengaging in stealth, never to be seen again. In other words, the fight has two outcomes, if you don't happen to play against an utterly unskilled player, who has no idea what he is doing, or get quite lucky: you die, or the Deadeye disappears.

Sure, there are other classes that can disengage quite nicely as well, and a Weaver is usually not too bad at doing that either. But the infinite stealth is on a whole other level. Especially since not all classes have a way to counter it at all. Some may say, "it's rock-paper-scissors", but imo it's more like "bird-worm", you may wriggle around a bit, but in the end the bird can always just fly away.

 

 

My solution against **infinite stealth** would be, to **decrease stealth duration with each application**. Just like Ele's Meteor Shower gets weaker and weaker per hit, stealth would not be usuable an infinite amount of times. It would then regenerate to allow full application again as stealth is not used anymore. So, in a fight it would still be usable, but you couldn't just hang around a keep all day, without anyone ever finding you, and you would have to be more careful about using it.

 

Overall though, the **Deadeye class is particularly problematic**, as other thieves usually have to go in close to kill you, meaning that they don't just jump around and **still hit you from afar.**

 

And **Stealth Traps** should really apply an **unremovable anti-stealth effect for a significant amount of time**. They cost supplies, take time and somewhat careful planning to deploy properly and usefully, but currently are rather pointless in the grand scheme. And especially useless against Deadeyes.

 

 

I play this game and WvW for fun, but to me this class or at least the spec is nothing but a troll-token. Something that doesn't fit with the rest of the classes, different, yes, but broken in a way. (Sure, there are other classes out there, which also need to be look over, but that is not the point here.)

[Egorum.9506]

 

2.5k armor in pvp. So in wvw with its greater Stat availability I could easily see the deadeye doing more

[Kaiser.9873]

A well played DE can prolong an encounter forever, end it without danger to him/herself, or finish it quickly from stealth. Can they be beaten? Sure they can, but risk/reward is out of whack for this class. I don't play my DE much, because quite frankly I'm not good at it, but even then I kill far more players than kill me.

[KrHome.1920]

For reference: In WvW a Mark + instant Malicious Backstab combo out of nowhere of a full glass Deadeye deals 12k damage (and an additional 1,2k Lightning Strike) on a 3k armored target. This happened to me a few minutes ago.

 

I twoshotted the Deadeye afterwards with a shroudflash / axe 2 combo.

[sephiroth.4217]

thanks to this thread I started using DE again...

 

Im running trickery and shadow arts... This is broken. The damage isnt all that high but if I play like a persistant mosquito I'll eventually get the kill... So far my only deaths have come from greed and being an egotistical maniac by fighting Reapers in doorways to pang...

 

Shadowmeld is broken too... Rangers have Sic Em but I have 2 stacks of removing revealed while he only has 1 source of revealed... I should have 1 stack and the ranger should have 2 stacks, not the current set up.

 

the funniest thing about my set up is that when I do go down I use my shadow refuge and self rez of the stealth traits, so I just reset the fight and kill the one who downed me.

 

If anyone would like to help me improve on my damage, im all ears.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> thanks to this thread I started using DE again...

>

> Im running trickery and shadow arts... This is broken. The damage isnt all that high but if I play like a persistant mosquito I'll eventually get the kill... So far my only deaths have come from greed and being an egotistical maniac by fighting Reapers in doorways to pang...

>

> Shadowmeld is broken too... Rangers have Sic Em but I have 2 stacks of removing revealed while he only has 1 source of revealed... I should have 1 stack and the ranger should have 2 stacks, not the current set up.

>

> the funniest thing about my set up is that when I do go down I use my shadow refuge and self rez of the stealth traits, so I just reset the fight and kill the one who downed me.

>

> If anyone would like to help me improve on my damage, im all ears.

 

I play DE as well and decided to bring in my warrior to see how to counter. Success goes up considerably with On my Mark due to the range (1200) and the Ammo function wherein one gets two uses. My personal opinion is that a few more of the reveal skills should have the ammo system.

 

As to improving damage cs/sa/de does all the damge you need. I really do not think trickery adds enough and it not like you INI starved in the build.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > thanks to this thread I started using DE again...

> >

> > Im running trickery and shadow arts... This is broken. The damage isnt all that high but if I play like a persistant mosquito I'll eventually get the kill... So far my only deaths have come from greed and being an egotistical maniac by fighting Reapers in doorways to pang...

> >

> > Shadowmeld is broken too... Rangers have Sic Em but I have 2 stacks of removing revealed while he only has 1 source of revealed... I should have 1 stack and the ranger should have 2 stacks, not the current set up.

> >

> > the funniest thing about my set up is that when I do go down I use my shadow refuge and self rez of the stealth traits, so I just reset the fight and kill the one who downed me.

> >

> > If anyone would like to help me improve on my damage, im all ears.

>

> I play DE as well and decided to bring in my warrior to see how to counter. Success goes up considerably with On my Mark due to the range (1200) and the Ammo function wherein one gets two uses. My personal opinion is that a few more of the reveal skills should have the ammo system.

>

> As to improving damage cs/sa/de does all the damge you need. I really do not think trickery adds enough and it not like you INI starved in the build.

 

I honestly think it's unfair that Thief can remove revealed more than other sources can apply it, reveal does need an ammo system especially if the counter runs off an ammo system.

 

Thanks, will try and give this a shot after a few pvP matches, wasn't sure about Trickery anymore either as the only benefit I could see from that traitline was the daze and boon rip... Was thinking of the raw power set up from the traits and signet might be a good option again, 200 raw power from the quickness trait in DE, 200 raw power from being revealed so every DJ shot and the signet for another 540 power so 940 power boost before stacking might for another potential 625 power.. In total being 1565 extra raw damage.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > thanks to this thread I started using DE again...

> > >

> > > Im running trickery and shadow arts... This is broken. The damage isnt all that high but if I play like a persistant mosquito I'll eventually get the kill... So far my only deaths have come from greed and being an egotistical maniac by fighting Reapers in doorways to pang...

> > >

> > > Shadowmeld is broken too... Rangers have Sic Em but I have 2 stacks of removing revealed while he only has 1 source of revealed... I should have 1 stack and the ranger should have 2 stacks, not the current set up.

> > >

> > > the funniest thing about my set up is that when I do go down I use my shadow refuge and self rez of the stealth traits, so I just reset the fight and kill the one who downed me.

> > >

> > > If anyone would like to help me improve on my damage, im all ears.

> >

> > I play DE as well and decided to bring in my warrior to see how to counter. Success goes up considerably with On my Mark due to the range (1200) and the Ammo function wherein one gets two uses. My personal opinion is that a few more of the reveal skills should have the ammo system.

> >

> > As to improving damage cs/sa/de does all the damge you need. I really do not think trickery adds enough and it not like you INI starved in the build.

>

>**I honestly think it's unfair that Thief can remove revealed more than other sources can apply it, reveal does need an ammo system especially if the counter runs off an ammo system**.

>

> Thanks, will try and give this a shot after a few pvP matches, wasn't sure about Trickery anymore either as the only benefit I could see from that traitline was the daze and boon rip... Was thinking of the raw power set up from the traits and signet might be a good option again, 200 raw power from the quickness trait in DE, 200 raw power from being revealed so every DJ shot and the signet for another 540 power so 940 power boost before stacking might for another potential 625 power.. In total being 1565 extra raw damage.

 

again this is not an 1 vs 1 mode, each reveal has a lower cooldown than 1 shadow meld and i can be revealed by several players, yet i cannot remove revealed from allies. you can quickly run out of shadow melds due to reveals, yet when using your last charge of it you can then retreat till you are prepared for a reveal again. wich can make it appear like you allways have more.

 

power from revealed is in DA not in trickery. DA and trickery have offensive utility that you need with the melee weapons core and DD usually use but you dont need it as much when using ranged weapon so you can use CS/SA/DE wich grants more raw damage and due to hidden killer you can go full valk wich will get your hp up over 21k and still do more damage than with trickery/SA/DE and berserk stats.

 

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > thanks to this thread I started using DE again...

> > > >

> > > > Im running trickery and shadow arts... This is broken. The damage isnt all that high but if I play like a persistant mosquito I'll eventually get the kill... So far my only deaths have come from greed and being an egotistical maniac by fighting Reapers in doorways to pang...

> > > >

> > > > Shadowmeld is broken too... Rangers have Sic Em but I have 2 stacks of removing revealed while he only has 1 source of revealed... I should have 1 stack and the ranger should have 2 stacks, not the current set up.

> > > >

> > > > the funniest thing about my set up is that when I do go down I use my shadow refuge and self rez of the stealth traits, so I just reset the fight and kill the one who downed me.

> > > >

> > > > If anyone would like to help me improve on my damage, im all ears.

> > >

> > > I play DE as well and decided to bring in my warrior to see how to counter. Success goes up considerably with On my Mark due to the range (1200) and the Ammo function wherein one gets two uses. My personal opinion is that a few more of the reveal skills should have the ammo system.

> > >

> > > As to improving damage cs/sa/de does all the damge you need. I really do not think trickery adds enough and it not like you INI starved in the build.

> >

> >**I honestly think it's unfair that Thief can remove revealed more than other sources can apply it, reveal does need an ammo system especially if the counter runs off an ammo system**.

> >

> > Thanks, will try and give this a shot after a few pvP matches, wasn't sure about Trickery anymore either as the only benefit I could see from that traitline was the daze and boon rip... Was thinking of the raw power set up from the traits and signet might be a good option again, 200 raw power from the quickness trait in DE, 200 raw power from being revealed so every DJ shot and the signet for another 540 power so 940 power boost before stacking might for another potential 625 power.. In total being 1565 extra raw damage.

>

> again this is not an 1 vs 1 mode, each reveal has a lower cooldown than 1 shadow meld and i can be revealed by several players, yet i cannot remove revealed from allies. you can quickly run out of shadow melds due to reveals, yet when using your last charge of it you can then retreat till you are prepared for a reveal again. wich can make it appear like you allways have more.

 

it was an opinion and I thought that was clear when I started off by saying "**I honestly think**"... And while I played thief, it was a 1 v 1-4 because of the fights I chose and rarely any of them were ranger let alone packing Sic em... But that's why I came to my opinion.

>

> power from revealed is in DA not in trickery. DA and trickery have offensive utility that you need with the melee weapons core and DD usually use but you dont need it as much when using ranged weapon so you can use CS/SA/DE wich grants more raw damage and due to hidden killer you can go full valk wich will get your hp up over 21k and still do more damage than with trickery/SA/DE and berserk stats.

>

 

I'm aware that the power is in DA..

I was laying out the traits from DA to see if there were any thoughts on why CS is better with DJ....

And your answer was perfect, I don't need precision because of the 100% crit chance so I can stack other stats instead..