Maybe it's time to redesign phantasms. Let's brainstorm ideas.

[Agent Noun.7350]

Yeah, let's not confuse trying and falling short with not caring at all. It's clear ArenaNet wants Mesmers to have better sustained DPS. I just think the problem is deeper than number tweaks or slight attack adjustments can solve and comes from the underlying design of phantasms themselves.

[Carighan.6758]

I definitely agree Phantasms need a full overhaul, but I'd do this:

 

* You can only have 1 Phantasm at a time.

* This single Phantasm occupies a special, fourth, illusion slot.

* All Phantasms buffed accordingly, usually not via making their individual attacks stronger (this'd result in needlessly high burst) but in removing much of the inter-attack delay result in continuous attacks blasted at their target.

* Phantasms ignores Shatter effects.

* Phantasms are immune to PBAE and GTAE effects but die extremely quickly (2k-4k health) to cleaves or single-target attacks, however cleaves **do** need the Phantasm targetted to hit it.

* When hitting a targetted enemy with your AA attacks, your Phantasm will switch to that target if it had been attacking something else.

[Lanhelin.3480]

Well, actually if one wants to shatter, one can do so. But one doesn't have to, just because one can. There are the shatter-players and there are the non-shatter-players. Redesigning (weapon-)phants to be attacks only probably would make non-shatter-builds impossible, if there are no alternatives for non-shatter-players. There are a lot of minor and major skills that only make sense if the phants persist. Other skills affect players using shatter skills a lot. While I understand the wish of shatter-players to redesign phants a/o to exclude them from active illusion counter, I'd prefer a skill granting this effect, rather than changing (weapon-)phants for every Mesmer regardless what build they play. It could be the counterpart of Phantasmal Force which obviously benefits persisting phants.

 

Like I already assumed in a similar thread in the old forums the suggestion to redesign phants this way basically expresses the dissatisfaction with the Master of Fragmentation skill, which currently is the skill of choice for shatter-players. Maybe it'd be enough to just add a F-skills cd reduction of 50%? Then shatter-players could use their primary source of damage more often. on the one hand this would strengthen shatter builds but on the other hand also leave phants untouched for non-shatter-players.

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Lanhelin.3480 said:

> Well, actually if one wants to shatter, one can do so. But one doesn't have to, just because one can. There are the shatter-players and there are the non-shatter-players. Redesigning (weapon-)phants to be attacks only probably would make non-shatter-builds impossible, if there are no alternatives for non-shatter-players. There are a lot of minor and major skills that only make sense if the phants persist. Other skills affect players using shatter skills a lot. While I understand the wish of shatter-players to redesign phants a/o to exclude them from active illusion counter, I'd prefer a skill granting this effect, rather than changing (weapon-)phants for every Mesmer regardless what build they play. It could be the counterpart of Phantasmal Force which obviously benefits persisting phants.

 

Admittedly, I'm looking at things from a purely PvE perspective here, but I think phantasms are pretty boring from a PvE DPS standpoint. The best Mesmer DPS rotations just involve summoning phantasms and mostly autoattacking. In my opinion, using phantasms as one-off attacks like this would make it a more involving rotation that simultaneously has more reliable (and probably easier-to-balance) DPS. That's something I'd love.

 

And from a PvE standpoint, shatter builds aren't really a thing. Shatters are about burst, and outside of open world things, PvE DPS really doesn't reward burst. Meanwhile, using a utility shatter like Distortion feels like a punishment, because it craters my ability to continue to do damage until I can resummon phantasms.

 

That's why I think there really _isn't_ much of a divide between shatter players a non-shatter players--in reality, you don't have a ton of choice. If you want to contribute good DPS in a group PvE setting, you don't shatter. If you PvP, you shatter. That strikes me as an odd thing, when a profession's two main mechanics are so thoroughly at odds, and so thoroughly divided by game mode. I'm not so much trying to kill off the phantasm play style as I am trying to make those two halves of the profession work together rather than conflict.

 

That said, I completely understand wanting a build where you can rely on persistent summoned illusions. I wonder if there'd be a way to let clones fill that role. Right now, they actually can contribute pretty well in a condition damage DPS build, because while they don't do much direct damage, they're more than capable of helping you stack up conditions. Leaning into that more--where continuing to summon clones helps condition DPS, while frequently shattering and using one-off phantasm attacks helps direct power damage DPS--might be an interesting divide. And because clones are cheap and easy to summon, that condition DPS clone build would be able to shatter more often than a current phantasm PvE build can and be back up and running much more quickly.

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Carighan.6758 said:

> I definitely agree Phantasms need a full overhaul, but I'd do this:

>

> * You can only have 1 Phantasm at a time.

> * This single Phantasm occupies a special, fourth, illusion slot.

> * All Phantasms buffed accordingly, usually not via making their individual attacks stronger (this'd result in needlessly high burst) but in removing much of the inter-attack delay result in continuous attacks blasted at their target.

> * Phantasms ignores Shatter effects.

> * Phantasms are immune to PBAE and GTAE effects but die extremely quickly (2k-4k health) to cleaves or single-target attacks, however cleaves **do** need the Phantasm targetted to hit it.

> * When hitting a targetted enemy with your AA attacks, your Phantasm will switch to that target if it had been attacking something else.

 

I actually think this is a pretty great solution, and more realistic than my more drastic one. I still prefer mine, but let's be honest: a total overhaul of what a phantasm even _is_ is pretty unlikely. Plus, I think this solution helps to keep phantasms as persistent summons a big part of Mesmer, which addresses some of what @"Lanhelin.3480" wrote about.

 

I like the idea of phantasms existing separately from illusions and not being shattered, as well as not being killable unless specifically targeted. And I think having only one phantasm at a time (that does the same attack, just more often) makes sense, because in many cases, at least in PvE, you want three phantasms of the same type. Combining those into one phantasm leaves you with functionally the same thing, but with less maintenance, and with the ability to shatter frequently for extra damage and defense.

 

Good stuff. I like the way you think.

[SlimChance.6593]

If you want to convince Robert Gee to make changes to phantasms? I would make sure that your suggestions are in align with the original design concept.

 

Phantasms are not pets. They are not summons. Phantasms are physical hexes!

 

This was the original concept behind Mesmer illusions. And as such, you might be able to convince Robert that like hexes, phantasms should only be around for X seconds or X attacks or Y ability and then expire. Just like a hex!

 

You could also make the argument to separating phantasms from shatters, since clone/shatters area separate/different style of hex.

 

 

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @SlimChance.6593 said:

> Phantasms are not pets. They are not summons. Phantasms are physical hexes!

>

> This was the original concept behind Mesmer illusions. And as such, you might be able to convince Robert that like hexes, phantasms should only be around for X seconds or X attacks or Y ability and then expire. Just like a hex!

 

Yeah, these are good points. Maybe instead of being one-off attacks like my original suggestion, they should instead stick around for a few seconds and do their attack multiple times before disappearing, while still not counting as an illusion or being targetable/killable. Similar to the one-off attack suggestion I started with, but keeping the idea that these are persistent hexes, rather than just a single illusionary attack. Still leaves us able to have three clones, use phantasms, and shatter without any of those things conflicting, too.

 

My main goal here is to find a way for phantasms to be a core part of what Mesmer does, while achieving these goals:

 

* Not conflicting with the other core Mesmer mechanics, clones and shatters.

* Providing more consistent sources of PvE DPS that aren't frequently killed by AoEs and cleaves.

* Providing more _active_ Mesmer DPS, rather than just setting up phantasms and mostly autoattacking (which is the current best option for Mirage condition damage DPS).

 

Lingering but ultimately temporary phantasms would also work, so long as the rest of the Mesmer's attacks are a little stronger to help compensate for not always having a phantasm around.

 

> @SlimChance.6593 said:

> You could also make the argument to separating phantasms from shatters, since clone/shatters area separate/different style of hex.

 

This aligns pretty well with @"Carighan.6758"'s suggestion above, to limit the Mesmer to one phantasm at a time while also exempting that phantasm from the illusion limit and shatters. I think it's also a relatively realistic fix, though skills that summon phantasms would need a rework with that change, given that there'd be no reason to cast them once you've summoned that phantasm once. Their built-in attacks would probably need to be stronger or desirable beyond summoning a phantasm in this case.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Agent Noun.7350" said:

> This aligns pretty well with @"Carighan.6758"'s suggestion above, to limit the Mesmer to one phantasm at a time while also exempting that phantasm from the illusion limit and shatters. I think it's also a relatively realistic fix, though skills that summon phantasms would need a rework with that change, given that there'd be no reason to cast them once you've summoned that phantasm once. Their built-in attacks would probably need to be stronger or desirable beyond summoning a phantasm in this case.

 

Ah, forgot about that, I thought of that before: When you cast a skill for a Phantasm you already have up, you make it immediately do another attack (even interrupting the current one if need be) which is also stronger. For the utility phantasms, this would instead be a stronger version of the on-cast effect.

 

> @SlimChance.6593 said:

> If you want to convince Robert Gee to make changes to phantasms? I would make sure that your suggestions are in align with the original design concept.

>

> Phantasms are not pets. They are not summons. Phantasms are physical hexes!

>

> This was the original concept behind Mesmer illusions. And as such, you might be able to convince Robert that like hexes, phantasms should only be around for X seconds or X attacks or Y ability and then expire. Just like a hex!

 

Interesting idea, but that sounds like a **much** larger rework because the current implementation has absolutely nothing to do with that. So if the design goal was "physical hex" we'd have seen **extensive** reworks already, repeatedly.

 

I mean I could think of such a situation, and it'd be fun:

 

* Phantasmal Swordsman: Summon a Phantasm that will retaliate if the target enemy attacks in close combat (<=300 range, 1s ICD).

* Phantasmal Disenchanter: Summons a Phantasm that prevents the targeted enemy from applying conditions. Each condition prevented in this way deals damage to them.

* Phantasmal Duellist: Summons a Phantasm that will continuously fire at the target enemy until that enemy targets and attacks the Duelist.

 

And so on, and so on...

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Carighan.6758 said:

> > @"Agent Noun.7350" said:

> > This aligns pretty well with @"Carighan.6758"'s suggestion above, to limit the Mesmer to one phantasm at a time while also exempting that phantasm from the illusion limit and shatters. I think it's also a relatively realistic fix, though skills that summon phantasms would need a rework with that change, given that there'd be no reason to cast them once you've summoned that phantasm once. Their built-in attacks would probably need to be stronger or desirable beyond summoning a phantasm in this case.

>

> Ah, forgot about that, I thought of that before: When you cast a skill for a Phantasm you already have up, you make it immediately do another attack (even interrupting the current one if need be) which is also stronger. For the utility phantasms, this would instead be a stronger version of the on-cast effect.

 

That would work, too.

 

Maybe phantasms could have an "opening attack" that they only do the first time they're conjured, and re-summoning them makes them do that attack again? Like, maybe the Phantasmal Swordsman uses Blurred Frenzy as its first attack before settling into its leap attack pattern, so when you use the skill again, the phantasm does another burst of cleave damage.

[Arshay Duskbrow.1306]

> @SlimChance.6593 said:

> If you want to convince Robert Gee to make changes to phantasms? I would make sure that your suggestions are in align with the original design concept.

>

> Phantasms are not pets. They are not summons. Phantasms are physical hexes!

>

> This was the original concept behind Mesmer illusions. And as such, you might be able to convince Robert that like hexes, phantasms should only be around for X seconds or X attacks or Y ability and then expire. Just like a hex!

>

> You could also make the argument to separating phantasms from shatters, since clone/shatters area separate/different style of hex.

>

>

 

Five years of clunky mediocrity and bandaging over it show that that idea is a failure. It was a bad idea badly implemented, and if Mesmer is ever going to receive the overhaul that it desperately needs, the devs will need to jettison their stubborn adherence to concept over execution.

[Artyport.2084]

Whew! I'm so happy the community is in agreement.

These skills as is need and have always needed a major change.

The Mirage was the final straw.

 

All of your suggestions are better than what we have now.

But honestly id love for phantasm to be summons of cooler things other than just myself.

Aesthetically it would be awesome to summon various illusions.

 

[Agent Noun.7350]

Okay, I have another idea. This one is a less drastic change, in that it wouldn't require a bunch of new systems or a total rework of skills, but still a pretty big departure from how phantasms work now. Here's my idea:

 

* **Reduce the damage phantasms deal. Increase the damage clones can deal _and_ increase Mesmer weapon skill damage.** The goal here is to reduce our reliance on keeping three phantasms up to deal good damage, and reduce the ramp-up time that Mesmers have, which also reduces the punishment for shattering during a PvE fight. I'm imagining clones and phantasms dealing close to the same amount of damage, which is less than phantasms do now but more than clones do. Meanwhile, Mesmer weapon skills deal increased damage to pick up the slack. The idea here isn't to massively increase our DPS (although I wouldn't complain :wink:) but rather to place more of it on things we can more easily control, like our own weapon skills, or easily build back up, like clones. This would be a big win for condition Mesmers, too, because it removes the double ramp-up that condition Mesmers have (the normal condition stacking ramp-up time, as well as the time spent summoning three phantasms).

* **Ensure every phantasm has a unique and desirable effect in addition to damage.** This is what would make phantasms separate from, and better than, clones: they have other effects that make you want to use them. They'd still be more durable, too. The idea here is that if phantasms aren't separated from clones by doing more damage, they need something else to make sure they're still special. And some phantasms are already there. Phantasmal Berserker has a useful AoE cripple. Phantasmal Avenger applies alacrity. Both of these would be useful even if they did less damage just for their other effects. So let's give similar things to every phantasm. Every phantasm becomes a situational, utility, or support illusion that is useful to summon but not always mandatory to keep out.

 

So what's the end effect here?

 

* **Phantasms are not core DPS tools, but instead utility tools.** If both types of illusion do similar damage, and the Mesmer themselves can do more damage directly, we don't rely on keeping our phantasms alive to do sustained DPS.

* **Replacing a phantasm with a clone, or shattering phantasms, becomes less punishing.** Sure, there are times when you'll want to keep your phantasms alive as long as possible, like a Chronomancer providing alacrity. But in general, because phantasms would no longer be a huge DPS gain over clones, it's not as punishing if you use a skill that generates a clone and replaces one of your phantasms, or if you shatter.

* **Phantasms retain their core identity.** Unlike my original suggestion, I'm not redefining what a phantasm even is here. I'm suggesting that phantasms could use the same system they currently do and simply fill a different role.

 

What do you all think of this concept?

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Artyport.2084 said:

> But honestly id love for phantasm to be summons of cooler things other than just myself.

> Aesthetically it would be awesome to summon various illusions.

 

This could be a pretty cool feature of a future elite spec, actually. We've had a time mage spec and now a master of deception, so how about the ultimate phantasmal illusionist? It could replace phantasms with slightly different and stronger versions that also have unique appearances.

 

[Levetty.1279]

> @Durzlla.6295 said:

> > @Levetty.1279 said:

> > > @Durzlla.6295 said:

> > > > @Levetty.1279 said:

> > > > > @Durzlla.6295 said:

> > > > > Mesmer might actually get a major update since they're trying to help Mesmer sustain,

> > > >

> > > > Source?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > That was literally their reasoning for giving us attacks on our phantasm skills lol

> > >

> > > "Also in this update, we are implementing initial attacks on several phantasm skills, allowing the mesmer to deliver a primary attack in addition to the summon in order to provide a bit more constant pressure on your targets."

> > >

> > > https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-22-2017/first#post6516356

> >

> > Do you honestly believe if that was their actual goal they would have made the attacks so kitten?

>

> Look Levetty, i'm not saying anet did it properly, i'm only saying what they said their goal was and am assuming they're not lying to our monitors.

 

If the attacks hit as hard as a auto attack I'd agree with you that they were weak but the obvious intention was to increase sustain damage but the damage on them are miniscule and in line with other class skills where they threw a bit of damage on to make the skill break stealth.

 

They lied to your monitor.

[apharma.3741]

> @Levetty.1279 said:

> > @Durzlla.6295 said:

> > > @Levetty.1279 said:

> > > > @Durzlla.6295 said:

> > > > > @Levetty.1279 said:

> > > > > > @Durzlla.6295 said:

> > > > > > Mesmer might actually get a major update since they're trying to help Mesmer sustain,

> > > > >

> > > > > Source?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That was literally their reasoning for giving us attacks on our phantasm skills lol

> > > >

> > > > "Also in this update, we are implementing initial attacks on several phantasm skills, allowing the mesmer to deliver a primary attack in addition to the summon in order to provide a bit more constant pressure on your targets."

> > > >

> > > > https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-22-2017/first#post6516356

> > >

> > > Do you honestly believe if that was their actual goal they would have made the attacks so kitten?

> >

> > Look Levetty, i'm not saying anet did it properly, i'm only saying what they said their goal was and am assuming they're not lying to our monitors.

>

> If the attacks hit as hard as a auto attack I'd agree with you that they were weak but the obvious intention was to increase sustain damage but the damage on them are miniscule and in line with other class skills where they threw a bit of damage on to make the skill break stealth.

>

> They lied to your monitor.

 

Agreed, phantasmal berserker change anyone? That does about 300-500 damage **on crit** which is hilarious. What about the giving sword phantasms might while giving you a 1s charge up attack which as mentioned does about the same as an auto attack? I mean it’s literally completely pointless without the GM trait in illusions. I could go on but at this point I sound like a salty broken record.

 

While ever phantasms do non negligible damage mesmer will always be in an awkward spot, they should remove the word phantasm and the mechanic entirely from the game.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Arshay Duskbrow.1306" said:

> Five years of clunky mediocrity and bandaging over it show that that idea is a failure. It was a bad idea badly implemented, and if Mesmer is ever going to receive the overhaul that it desperately needs, the devs will need to jettison their stubborn adherence to concept over execution.

 

I'd actually argue the exact **opposite**. We have too many iterative changes and too few substantial re-designs were a lack of balance is accepted temporarily to push forth a new design idea.

 

Because in many regards, it seems like a lot of classes suffer first and foremost from their basic design "vision" either not existing (Mesmer falls into this, for example) or not being realized in a sensible way (Engineer).

 

I'd say, go back to the drawing board. All the way. Formulate a new elevator pitch for each class. Then rip out whatever doesn't fit it, and don't forcibly try to fill all open gaps left if it just isn't sensible (the game is too spammy in effects and modifiers anyhow). Throw away the 3+3x3 model of traitlines, different traitlines should have different setups if some work better than others. Examples:

 

* A traitline entirely without choice.

* A traitline where you freely pick 4 of 8 options, any combination.

* A traitline where each trait is really strong, but you only get to pick a single one.

* A traitline with few traits and few choices, but actually adding skills like an elite spec, or even **removing** skills because other traits merge their functionality into other skills.

 

Thereby, allowing design to actually be implemented simply because the rigidity of the class design (traitline all 3+3x3, skill types 4+1+1, weapons all with 5 skills total for a full set) is softened up and can be used as needed or, well, not.

 

For example for the Mesmer, if I had to come up with an elevator pitch, I'd say "A fragile support combatant who is impossible to nail down but falters when exposed. Instead of just doing damage, they weaken their enemies and punish them for not reacting to their debuffs.".

[Arshay Duskbrow.1306]

No, Mesmer falls into the "not being realized in a sensible way", which is what I alluded to with the word "execution". The Devs need to be willing to give up their high-minded conceptual dreams for practical and common-sense mechanical solutions that work, which phantasms - and indeed, our entire illusion/shatter system - are not and never have been.

 

Meanwhile, you've overshot so far that you are calling for a complete redesign of the entire game.

[atlashugged.7642]

Phantasms are somewhat boring for PvP as well.

 

From what I've read, a lot of the PvE complaints stem from never shattering your phantasms. One way to solve that in PvE would be

 

1. Phantasm skills on the ammo system, with 2 charges.

2. cooldowns of phantasm skills lowered

3. attack cooldowns of phantasms increased.

 

The goal of these number tweaks would be to make it so that a good player can always summon 3 phantasms, have them attack, shatter them, and then resummon three phantasms before those first phantasms would be able to attack a second time if they had not been shattered. Damage values of course, would have to be changed as well.

 

If this was the case, I would also suggest rebalancing the player attack portions of phantasms to not deal damage, but to inflict soft conditions (like blind, slow, and vulnerability), in order to keep things hopefully balanced for PvP, since mesmers already shatter phantasms regularly in pvp.

[Mikkel.8427]

I'd be happy with them just changing clone producing abilities to not overwrite phantasms... Its awful feeling locked out of using certain attacks on your weapons AND not being able to use your shatters. You end up with things like power Mesmer in PvE: you set up your three Phantasms, then press ONE button for the rest of the instance because using anything else is a massive damage loss.

 

I'd like ALL clone abilities to get the scepter AA treatment.

 

If you have 3 Illusions, instead of producing a clone-

 

Deceptive evasion: 3/4 stealth (long enough to cover evade animation)

Illusionary counter: An extra stack of torment

Mirror Blade: An extra bounce

Phase retreat: 3 secs of aegis

Illusionary Leap: Blink to your target immobilizing them

Illusionary Riposte: 5 stack of Vulnerability for 5 seconds

Mirage Thrust: Double damage

Lingering Thoughts: A phantasmal seeking axe pops out of the "mirage" you leave behind.

 

I think that would be an easier solution than overhauling phantasms, and would have close to zero impact on PvP and WvW balance because illusions are shattered and killed so quickly you'll almost never see these extra effects.

 

I'd be happy with any of the things proposed so far, though. They need to do SOMETHING, I don't even care what at this point.

 

 

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Mikkel.8427 said:

> I'd be happy with them just changing clone producing abilities to not overwrite phantasms... Its awful feeling locked out of using certain attacks on your weapons AND not being able to use your shatters. You end up with things like power Mesmer in PvE: you set up your three Phantasms, then press ONE button for the rest of the instance because using anything else is a massive damage loss.

 

Yeah, if nothing else, please use that scepter autoattack technology to prevent clones from _ever_ replacing phantasms. It is never, ever, _ever_ a desirable effect and all it does is prevent Mesmers from using skills that might be useful because it would cause a large drop in DPS.

 

> @Mikkel.8427 said:

> If you have 3 Illusions, instead of producing a clone-

>

> Deceptive evasion: 3/4 stealth (long enough to cover evade animation)

> Illusionary counter: An extra stack of torment

> Mirror Blade: An extra bounce

> Phase retreat: 3 secs of aegis

> Illusionary Leap: Blink to your target immobilizing them

> Illusionary Riposte: 5 stack of Vulnerability for 5 seconds

> Mirage Thrust: Double damage

> Lingering Thoughts: A phantasmal seeking axe pops out of the "mirage" you leave behind.

 

This kind of thing would be really cool.

 

I'd like to see that combined with some sort of incentive to use phantasm-summoning skills when you already have three phantasms out. Chronomancer's Echo of Memory/Deja Vu doesn't need it--that has an extremely useful block component already--but all the other ones do.

 

So I'd like to combine your suggestion here with something I suggested above: give each phantasm an "opening attack" that is stronger than its normal attack. It only performs that opening attack once, right when it's summoned, before settling into its normal pattern. Because you summon a new copy of the phantasm when you use a phantasm-summoning skill again, it'd perform that opening attack again, so now you have an incentive to work that into your rotation. Some examples could be:

 

* **Phantasmal Swordsman:** Uses Blurred Frenzy as its first attack.

* **Phantasmal Berserker:** First attack immobilizes instead of crippling.

* **Phantasmal Duelist:** First attack pierces enemies and always inflicts bleeding.

* **Phantasmal Mage:** Breathes a cone of fire as its first attack, inflicting extra burning. This mimics the Elementalist dagger skill Drake's Breath.

* **Phantasmal Warlock:** Fires multiple projectiles with its first attack.

[Kuulpb.5412]

What about, instead of changing the phantasms attacks, they did lower the dmg as you said and bump up clone and Mesmer dmg as you saide, BUT they make phantasms the more specific "Debilitating" illusions, e.g. - The GS one could constantly apply Vulnerability and Cripple to the target ( and those hit) by the sword spin. The Torch one Could apply burn and confusion, Shield - Slow and Chill, Focus could reflect by default and traited it has a wider area. etc. Or is that a bad idea because pvp and wvw exist and people could complain about a 1-2s slow+chill? :P

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @SlimChance.6593 said:

> If you want to convince Robert Gee to make changes to phantasms? I would make sure that your suggestions are in align with the original design concept.

>

> Phantasms are not pets. They are not summons. Phantasms are physical hexes!

>

> This was the original concept behind Mesmer illusions. And as such, you might be able to convince Robert that like hexes, phantasms should only be around for X seconds or X attacks or Y ability and then expire. Just like a hex!

>

> You could also make the argument to separating phantasms from shatters, since clone/shatters area separate/different style of hex.

>

>

 

Where is mah Distortion to make the enemies' heal skills take 2 minutes to recharge ?D:

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> What about, instead of changing the phantasms attacks, they did lower the dmg as you said and bump up clone and Mesmer dmg as you saide, BUT they make phantasms the more specific "Debilitating" illusions, e.g. - The GS one could constantly apply Vulnerability and Cripple to the target ( and those hit) by the sword spin. The Torch one Could apply burn and confusion, Shield - Slow and Chill, Focus could reflect by default and traited it has a wider area. etc. Or is that a bad idea because pvp and wvw exist and people could complain about a 1-2s slow+chill? :P

 

Yeah, like I suggested in an above post, I think it'd be really cool if phantasms' role wasn't necessarily damage but utility. If clones and phantasms do similar damage but phantasms are more durable and do something in _addition_ to their damage, I think that'd be a really good change.

 

More damage on things that are consistent (the Mesmer's own attacks, clones) with other reasons to use phantasms situationally.

[Adrianna.3092]

Just make the phantasms like pets... they already did it for kasmeer so why not?

[Carighan.6758]

I guess first and foremost, we'd need the devs to decide whether they want us to be a pet bomber (like an Animist in DAoC) or a trck> @Kuulpb.5412 said:

> What about, instead of changing the phantasms attacks, they did lower the dmg as you said and bump up clone and Mesmer dmg as you saide, BUT they make phantasms the more specific "Debilitating" illusions, e.g. - The GS one could constantly apply Vulnerability and Cripple to the target ( and those hit) by the sword spin. The Torch one Could apply burn and confusion, Shield - Slow and Chill, Focus could reflect by default and traited it has a wider area. etc. Or is that a bad idea because pvp and wvw exist and people could complain about a 1-2s slow+chill? :P

 

That'd be interesting, **actual** physixal hexes. Say the Disenchanter punishes you for casting boons, the Defender for attacking with a melee weapon, and so on, while the clones "just attack".