The challenge doesn't start until late game / max level right?

[Soulmancer.4715]

I always wonder why they make most MMO's stacked with 90% content that the most inept gamer can effortlessly breeze through while aggressively punching themselves in the dick and treat any thing other than max level content as an extended tutorial. Maybe I'll give FF14 a chance or hold out until Ashes or Pantheon.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Vavume.8065" said:

> The only thing challenging is maintaining the will to log in.

 

Wow. Well, I have had periods like that - but the solution is simple: Don't log in until you feel the joy again to do so.

[Soulmancer.4715]

I did try Elder Scrolls online but after playing skyrim with 255 mods that game felt and looked awful. Has anyone dabbled in FF14? I played FF11 back in the day and that game was brutally hard and punishing... I'm a fan of FF lore and the job system and it sounds like all the pre expansion content is very relevant and madatory... Unlike the bulk of MMORPG's which upon releasing an expansion, nerf all the older content and make it trivial or pointless.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Soulmancer.4715" said:

> I always wonder why they make most MMO's stacked with 90% content that the most inept gamer can effortlessly breeze through

They don't. It's common for highly competent people to underestimate their skill level (and likewise, less skilled folks tend to overestimate their abilities). So you've overestimated the fraction of content that "the most inept gamer" can manage, in part because you'll find it hard to imagine what "the most inept" gamer finds challenging.

 

 

[Westenev.5289]

This game can be challenging if you don't know what you're doing. Running around as a deck and board warrior, for example, is bound to get you killed quickly - something I discovered when I started the game. I also see people wanting to be level 50 healers or tanks who never touch an attack stat wondering why they keep getting killed and why the boss won't die.

 

Without a need for player support (besides group dps), the game often relies on throwing one trick pony's or red herrings (like fake/bad choices in weapon/skill selection) at the player to kill them a few times. But after learning from your mistakes, you're generally safe. I think this applies to all content.

[Klipso.8653]

Challenge comes from fighting in WvW. Every PvE encounter from fractals and raids might seem difficult at first but it all eventually boils down to memorizing mechanics to the point where it's an auto pilot farm.

In WvW, encounters constantly change providing actual repeatability and challenge.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Soulmancer.4715" said:

> I always wonder why they make most MMO's stacked with 90% content that the most inept gamer can effortlessly breeze through while aggressively punching themselves in the kitten and treat any thing other than max level content as an extended tutorial. Maybe I'll give FF14 a chance or hold out until Ashes or Pantheon.

 

> @"Soulmancer.4715" said:

> I did try Elder Scrolls online but after playing skyrim with 255 mods that game felt and looked awful. Has anyone dabbled in FF14? I played FF11 back in the day and that game was brutally hard and punishing... I'm a fan of FF lore and the job system and it sounds like all the pre expansion content is very relevant and madatory... Unlike the bulk of MMORPG's which upon releasing an expansion, nerf all the older content and make it trivial or pointless.

 

I've only played a little Final Fantasy 14, but from playing up to level 35 I can say that the open world is every bit as challenge-less as gw2. It can seem harder at times but that is because the game is at heart a group play game made around the trinity, but even then with enough gear and some chocobo set to semi-healer you can get through just about anything solo in open world (just like in gw2). The whole point of FF14 is to play dungeons, where obviously you can't solo, the entire end game and progress toward it is dungeons, you even need to do most dungeons to progress the main story (and thus to unlock 90% of the features of the game, like mount for ex).

 

It feels a bit like a trinity version of GW2 in many ways, I still miss the action combat from GW2 (and the lack of trinity in general, since it encourages the traditional type of RPG style combat I don't enjoy). Personally I'm playing it nowadays because I'm curious about all the horror stories I hear about Duty Finder (dungeon finder, looking for group, etc), so I'm playing it mostly for the laughs of what random crazy I get in Duty Finder this time :)

 

PS they just removed the cross class skills from FF14 with last expansion, so there isn't much left of the job system itself, other than the fact that you can change class/job on your character, so you can level up multiple classes on the same toon (which I love). In general this has been good for the dungeon community as you get less Paladin's trying to self heal and play healer in Duty Finder :p but it does stiffle some creativity for open world builds, ah well.

 

---

 

The more I try different MMO's the more I come to the conclusion that if you enjoy PVE, don't play MMO's. How many MMO's you've seen with good/interesting/challenging enemy/mob/ai design ? 99% of the time they just pad the numbers (damage, attack rate, hitpoints, armor etc), sometimes give them gimmicks or super attacks you have to move out of etc. GW2 is as guilty of this as FF14. And I haven't seen anyone else do any better yet :(

 

If you want enemies that post more of a challenge, that you have to learn to fight, and try to reason out weaknesses etc, I'd recommend playing something else that MMO's. Singleplayer games like Dragon's Dogma have different enemies that all have different strength and weaknesses that you have to figure out to beat them, Shadows of Mordor had a system where all the minor bosses kept picking up new tricks and weaknesses so you had to figure them out or experience and make use of the environment against lots of them. Or if going real old-school look at one of my all time favorites Moonstone for the Amiga 500 from 1991 (it also had a pc port) where you had to figure out each enemy how to fight and position against them and how to handle them in multiples.

 

They seemingly just doesn't do this for MMO's, guess it is too much work, and I'm going to guess that judging by how I see the more and more "feel-good" I see the current gaming market becomes, catering to people that doesn't want challenges at all, I guess they're just not interested in trying. I keep feeling that every year the gaming market more and more becomes dominated by games made for people that just want to push buttons and watch things happen on screen and feel empowered, without putting effort into it. It really puzzles my more old-school gamer heart, that used to sit for days in a row in Moonstone trying to figure out how the heck to not die to the Mudman or the Balog...