Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Gop.8713]

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > I don't think many people understand here (or can even comprehend logic at all) that it's not all about the price of the sigils - the problem is more about the AVAILABILITY/SUPPLY/ACCESS of getting the sigils (at one point the supply dropped down to 40 sigils - enough for a total of ONE player in GW2 to get the armour - making it literally as rare as legendary armour).

> >

> > It would have been fine if there were other ways of getting these sigils - even account bound/non-sellable versions of them, and working hard for them - but the fact that levelling up characters to level 64, 25 times, is the only way of getting them, is so wrong, and all the rich players who can afford to manipulate the market via the supply, know it - and are taking full advantage of it.

> >

> > Anet should allow multiple ways of obtaining these sigils (even non-tradeable versions of the sigil), but I doubt anything will happen. If 26 pages of complaints and discussion isn't feedback enough for them to do anything about it, I don't know what is.

> >

> > **Like I said, people are willing to put in the time and effort. It's not all about the price of the sigils, it's the way in which they're obtained (or lack thereof), and the fact that players are holding these sigils to ransom because they can afford to buy them all up, is wrong - and you know it. There needs to be other ways of getting these sigils**, and not just being able to buy them. If people don't understand this, there's something seriously wrong with them - or they're a narcissist and can't comprehend logic, or other people's points of view.

>

> 100% completely wrong. Since the supply NEVER went below 25 on the market, you ALWAYS had access to the sigils you need. You were just not willing to pay the price. So it is in fact about the price. If it was not about the price, as you say, then you would have just bought them and moved on with the collection. It doesn't matter if there were 25 or 25,000,000. The fact that supply never went below 25 says supply was enough for anyone to complete the collection. The fact that supply got down to 40 says that there were not enough on the market to keep the price down, but it's not about price, right?

 

Right. Your error lies in believing everyone is completely selfish and only cares about there own ability to acquire the armor. Many ppl can look at a broken system and identify it as broken, even if it doesn't affect them directly . . .

[Dante.1763]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > > > I don't think many people understand here (or can even comprehend logic at all) that it's not all about the price of the sigils - the problem is more about the AVAILABILITY/SUPPLY/ACCESS of getting the sigils (at one point the supply dropped down to 40 sigils - enough for a total of ONE player in GW2 to get the armour - making it literally as rare as legendary armour).

> > > > .......

> > > > **Like I said, people are willing to put in the time and effort. It's not all about the price of the sigils, it's the way in which they're obtained (or lack thereof)**

> > >

> > > So if the price had remained at 3 silver for everyone, we would still have a thread as large as this complaining about its availability/supply/access? The availability/supply/access may be the cause of the price increase but people only started caring about that when the price got too high for them. The price is the driving force behind these complaints.

> >

> > Availability/Supply/Access is the primary problem, because it biases against players who have real life obligations or want to take their time and enjoy the content. All it takes is a few goobers to zip through the content as fast as possible, recognize the rarity and value in these sigils, and buy up the majority of the stock. Thus, the people without a day job can rush through content and make a ton of money on the TP for literally doing nothing other than getting there first.

>

> Um, hold on here ... MMO's by their NATURE are biased against players that can't devote the time to play them ... so that's not a problem Anet can fix, or any other game developer.

>

> > @"Pirindolo.9427" said:

> > How many threads of :o **over 1 thousand posts** :o have not a single word from Anet in them?

>

> Lots ... the volume of posts is not indicative of Anet needing to get involved. The system is working as intended. Just because people don't like it doesn't mean Anet needs to come and tell you something so you can argue with them.

 

Sure they cant fix it 100% but they can certainly *avoid* the issue when it comes to items like this. If they wanted a fixed price for this set of armor all the had to do was add an item to the merchants that cost 5-10 a piece and require 25 of them. The price would have been either 125g or 250g, which is still alot less than it requires now and would require you to play on the map or the LW4 maps due to it also requiring say 100 of i thinks its VM? Obviously thats just an example but its something they *could* have done and it would have outright avoided the reason people are complaining now which is what *did* happen as soon as people realized the sigil was needed and that it was so scarce and not easy to obtain.

[Obtena.7952]

There isn't a way to avoid the fact that people benefit from playing more.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Gop.8713" said:

> > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > > I don't think many people understand here (or can even comprehend logic at all) that it's not all about the price of the sigils - the problem is more about the AVAILABILITY/SUPPLY/ACCESS of getting the sigils (at one point the supply dropped down to 40 sigils - enough for a total of ONE player in GW2 to get the armour - making it literally as rare as legendary armour).

> > >

> > > It would have been fine if there were other ways of getting these sigils - even account bound/non-sellable versions of them, and working hard for them - but the fact that levelling up characters to level 64, 25 times, is the only way of getting them, is so wrong, and all the rich players who can afford to manipulate the market via the supply, know it - and are taking full advantage of it.

> > >

> > > Anet should allow multiple ways of obtaining these sigils (even non-tradeable versions of the sigil), but I doubt anything will happen. If 26 pages of complaints and discussion isn't feedback enough for them to do anything about it, I don't know what is.

> > >

> > > **Like I said, people are willing to put in the time and effort. It's not all about the price of the sigils, it's the way in which they're obtained (or lack thereof), and the fact that players are holding these sigils to ransom because they can afford to buy them all up, is wrong - and you know it. There needs to be other ways of getting these sigils**, and not just being able to buy them. If people don't understand this, there's something seriously wrong with them - or they're a narcissist and can't comprehend logic, or other people's points of view.

> >

> > 100% completely wrong. Since the supply NEVER went below 25 on the market, you ALWAYS had access to the sigils you need. You were just not willing to pay the price. So it is in fact about the price. If it was not about the price, as you say, then you would have just bought them and moved on with the collection. It doesn't matter if there were 25 or 25,000,000. The fact that supply never went below 25 says supply was enough for anyone to complete the collection. The fact that supply got down to 40 says that there were not enough on the market to keep the price down, but it's not about price, right?

>

> Right. Your error lies in believing everyone is completely selfish and only cares about there own ability to acquire the armor. Many ppl can look at a broken system and identify it as broken, even if it doesn't affect them directly . . .

 

Yet he is factually correct. Since the offered supply never dropped below 25, every player had the ability to acquire the required amount of Sigils at any time, especially since this does not even factor in direct sales to buy orders which we can't as easily acquire statistically (arenanet can).

 

I don't see him make any statement about the system being broken or not. All I see is a counter argument to hyperbole.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> There isn't a way to avoid the fact that people benefit from playing more.

 

.......as i said, you are right, but in this one case it could have been mostly avoided.

[Obtena.7952]

But there isn't a reason to avoid it. Avoiding the inevitable makes no sense.

[Dedicant.6820]

This didn't have to be inevitable. Using a vendor item, event reward item or craftable item puts everyone in the same boat rather than some people getting it for almost nothing and others having to spend 100s of gold to those very people. The issue people have here is there is no fair, reliable way to finish this achievement now. You either rng which is annoying and frustrating by nature, level 25 alts which is tedious as hell even with level up items and not a way any game should force people to do anything, or you pay up to tp barons who took advantage of this whole thing. I'd have no problem paying 200 gold to vendors like with the griffon but it's clear that this situation isn't palatable to a large amount of people.

[Obtena.7952]

People have different amounts of play time IS inevitable, so it doesn't make sense for Anet to design the game to minimize the impact that different amounts of play has. People with lower playtime always have a disadvantage.

 

Anyways, what you said is totally untrue. People DO have a way to that is reliable to finish the achievement. It actually is fair; everyone has access to buy the sigils.

[Gemnaid.4219]

I’m still waiting for a fix.

[Dedicant.6820]

I don't care about people playing more than others. I care about the sigil having no reliable method of acquisition. And no it is not fair as previously stated over 100s of comments, the people who rushed and got there early had an advantage over those who played the story at a normal pace. What would be fair is if everyone paid the same price like for the griffon. This is the opposite of fair.

[Tyson.5160]

We had a similar situation with precursor weapons. Anet then made a craftable collection. This seems like the exact same issue here.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dedicant.6820" said:

> I don't care about people playing more than others. I care about the sigil having no reliable method of acquisition. And no it is not fair as previously stated over 100s of comments, the people who rushed and got there early had an advantage over those who played the story at a normal pace. What would be fair is if everyone paid the same price like for the griffon. This is the opposite of fair.

 

And you have that ... it's available RELIABLY on the TP.

 

You're right though, it's not fair ... but it's an MMO. It's not intended to be fair. It's a market driven by player desires. If you don't like that, you're playing the wrong kind of game.

[Tyson.5160]

Pissing off the player base is not a way for Anet to have people spend money. It’s the opposite. I know, I honestly don’t want to spend a cent on a poor design choice.

 

I get it, It’s their game, however much like in real life there are consequences for every action.

[den aelling.7681]

> @"Kirkas.1430" said:

> Hello, we need to much of this for the Requiem Armor Set. The Price is to high and its not a regular drop. Only a Reward for Lv 64. The Price is 3gold in the Moment and only 18OO in the Blacklion Trading Market.

>

> We need a Recipe or a other Sigil. That was hopefully not the thinking, making such a Sigil so expensive.

> Pls Anet.

 

3 GOLD! HAHAHAHa, I'm from the future wait until you get here!

[Dedicant.6820]

It is not reliable through the tp it would only be reliable if there was a reliable method to acquire them outside of it. In it's current state this collection is not fair or reliable. Guild Wars 2 has always prided itself on being not like other mmos, their sales pitch pre launch was this is the kind of game that you shouldn't feel like another player is ruining your experience just by them being in the same space or wanting the same resource. That's why we have shared loot, events and material nodes. The developers literally advertised their game as fair. So no I think I'm in the exact right place when asking for fair treatment for all players. I think allowing a subset of players to block access to an achievement and set of skins by buying up the existing supply and driving up the prices for a profit shouldn't be one of the defining aspects of a living world update. Maybe you're in the wrong game if you're so desperate to defend this. All in all I really don't think that expressing my disdain (and many other people doing the same) for this situation is in anyway wrong. I don't think it's asking too much for Anet to think about this response the next time they decide to tie something to an unreliable resource that can be taken advantage of on the tp. I doubt there will ever be a fix for this mess but hopefully they do patch in a crafting recipe or something.

[Pirindolo.9427]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> Why any words from them? Only two reason why they haven't replied yet:

> 1-They are ashamed of their fail of selecting a correct item for that requiem collection and so they don't want to speak about all the sellers which gained a ton of gold/ can't simply warn players who abused, who took the opportunity to gain gold, don't care of the ones who missed their chances.

> 2-It works as Intended, inflating the price of one of the component, to force players to buy gems to convert to gold to buy them/ force you to farm; diminishing the number of players who have access to the armor.

>

> I'm more for the 2nd option.

 

Why? You answer the question in you post: to clarify if it is 1 or 2

[hugo.4705]

... You clearly haven't understood my post, I introduce it by "why" to add my answers after, I'm not wondering why.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Pissing off the player base is not a way for Anet to have people spend money. It’s the opposite. I know, I honestly don’t want to spend a cent on a poor design choice.

>

> I get it, It’s their game, however much like in real life there are consequences for every action.

 

That's true ... but it's inevitable. You can't make everyone happy. And no reasonable player would expect that everything Anet does makes then happy either.

[Hanth.2978]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Pissing off the player base is not a way for Anet to have people spend money. It’s the opposite. I know, I honestly don’t want to spend a cent on a poor design choice.

>

> I get it, It’s their game, however much like in real life there are consequences for every action.

 

I get that you are pissed and that there are other players like you who won't be getting the armor anytime soon. It's also fair to say there are an equal amount of players who don't see it as a problem, they are out there everyday getting that gold or opening up wallets. Had the community flat out refused to pay these prices then yeah this would be widespread panic, it's our community though your's and mine who continue to buy them at these prices.

 

In the long run people just simply see it as 350-400 gold for not just one set but all 3. Remember its only ectos and map nodes after that and they come easy.

[Dedicant.6820]

The major issue and why a lot of people are pissed is how things like this are going to be detrimental for the enjoyment of future living world chapters. You can no longer enjoy the story and take in all the details of the new map. Now you have to open yourself up to potential spoilers and rush through the content in order to make sure you won't be left at a disadvantage just in case the patch contains another little nugget like the sigil of nullification as a requirement for the content. Or you can play at your own pace knowing it may end up costing you later while others got it done for almost free comparatively.

[Despond.2174]

2 silver to 12 gold (blinks). I think these sort of swings giving players no other option is never going to be received well. I understand those who took the opportunity don't want any changes, so perhaps AANET may not do anything but make sure it's not repeated - though this happened with mischief sigils but that wasn't as bad as these. People who aren't there the precise minute of a patch shouldn't be so heavily punished.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Despond.2174" said:

> 2 silver to 12 gold (blinks). I think these sort of swings giving players no other option is never going to be received well. I understand those who took the opportunity don't want any changes, so perhaps AANET may not do anything but make sure it's not repeated - though this happened with mischief sigils but that wasn't as bad as these. People who aren't there the precise minute of a patch shouldn't be so heavily punished.

 

No, people are in part more pissed because anet repeatedly does this.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dedicant.6820" said:

> The major issue and why a lot of people are pissed is how things like this are going to be detrimental for the enjoyment of future living world chapters. You can no longer enjoy the story and take in all the details of the new map. Now you have to open yourself up to potential spoilers and rush through the content in order to make sure you won't be left at a disadvantage just in case the patch contains another little nugget like the sigil of nullification as a requirement for the content. Or you can play at your own pace knowing it may end up costing you later while others got it done for almost free comparatively.

 

I don't get this statement at all. You can completely enjoy all those things if you don't get the armor. I mean, that's rather deceptive way of thinking ... linking armor availability to the enjoyment of doing the content in the map ... LIke, 99% of the content isn't linked to the armor, but you're going to try to say you can't enjoy new maps because of 1% of content you have to 'rush' to get done. That's ridiculous.

[Gop.8713]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Dedicant.6820" said:

> > The major issue and why a lot of people are pissed is how things like this are going to be detrimental for the enjoyment of future living world chapters. You can no longer enjoy the story and take in all the details of the new map. Now you have to open yourself up to potential spoilers and rush through the content in order to make sure you won't be left at a disadvantage just in case the patch contains another little nugget like the sigil of nullification as a requirement for the content. Or you can play at your own pace knowing it may end up costing you later while others got it done for almost free comparatively.

>

> I don't get this statement at all. You can completely enjoy all those things if you don't get the armor. I mean, that's rather deceptive way of thinking ... linking armor availability to the enjoyment of doing the content in the map ... LIke, 99% of the content isn't linked to the armor, but you're going to try to say you can't enjoy new maps because of 1% of content you have to 'rush' to get done. That's ridiculous.

 

No, it makes sense. Ppl who enjoyed this map's content at their own pace were placed at a disadvantage vs. ppl who rushed through to see how they could maximize their profit from the new content. If the current situation is deemed desirable, then that means the ppl who would prefer to enjoy the content rather than maximize profit will be forced instead to rush through the content in order to avoid being placed again in the situation they are now, which is at a disadvantage when it comes to completing the content . . .

 

For the game-as-market-simulator crowd this isn't an issue bc ofc the ppl who get there first should be advantaged. What they fail to understand is the game-as-a-game crowd isn't complaining about being unfairly deprived of an opportunity to profit, but rather about being unfairly deprived of an opportunity to enjoy the content. It's the inability to understand another's perspective that makes it seem ridiculous to you . . .

[Obtena.7952]

That's not true for everyone and the fact is that there are going to be instances where people get some advantage by playing the game more than someone else. You aren't going to make an argument here that makes sense because it's just natural that people that can play more will have an advantage over those that can't.