Necromancer minions

[Brand.9670]

Hey all,

 

I started this game because I heard you could play a necromancer in a MMO. Usually this class exists in action RPGs like Diablo 3 and Path of Exile, but I was curious about the novelty of playing it in a MMO setting.

 

Initially I wanted the option to create this super tank minion that can tank any boss in the game if specced correctly. I was disappointed to know that such a thing doesn't exist, that minions are only support and can never be the main damage.

 

Q1. So I write up this post while in denial, hoping, begging that there is a saving grace for a viable necromancer that is a master of minions. Is such a thing still possible?

Q2. How do you improve the strength of minions, other than your personal level and death magic?

Q3. The wiki says that minions only gain Condition Damage, Condition Duration, and Boon Duration from you. May I know how this even helps minions, because minions only do flat damage? I don't see them doing any boons either to benefit from Boon Duration.

Q4. How do you improve the aggro of minions so that they will tank the enemies for you?

[Warscythes.9307]

1) The saving grace for minion master necro is that it is the safest build for open world PvE. You do practically no damage, provides pretty much no utility, very poor mobility but you are utterly invincible.

 

2) You don't, they don't really scale off anything important.

 

3) It really doesn't as no minion afflict enough condis for the damage/duration to be worth it.

 

4) They already take aggro which is why I made answer 1. Mobs will attack your minions instead of you and that's how you survive. Note this is for open world pve only.

[Brand.9670]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> 4) They already take aggro which is why I made answer 1. Mobs will attack your minions instead of you and that's how you survive. Note this is for open world pve only.

 

But currently if I auto-attack enemies in the open world, they go after me instead of my minions.

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"Brand.9670" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > 4) They already take aggro which is why I made answer 1. Mobs will attack your minions instead of you and that's how you survive. Note this is for open world pve only.

>

> But currently if I auto-attack enemies in the open world, they go after me instead of my minions.

 

I am guessing is that you are using toughness gear. You are pretty much unkillable with full damage gear playing minion master, so wear that.

 

Even if you are getting hit which does happen. Dagger 2 and going to shroud is enough to recover from anything. Trust me MM necro is absolutely braindead to play and is capable of soloing pretty much everything champion and below by pressing 2 buttons. However that's all it is good for.

[Brand.9670]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > @"Brand.9670" said:

> > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > 4) They already take aggro which is why I made answer 1. Mobs will attack your minions instead of you and that's how you survive. Note this is for open world pve only.

> >

> > But currently if I auto-attack enemies in the open world, they go after me instead of my minions.

>

> I am guessing is that you are using toughness gear. You are pretty much unkillable with full damage gear playing minion master, so wear that.

>

> Even if you are getting hit which does happen. Dagger 2 and going to shroud is enough to recover from anything. Trust me MM necro is absolutely braindead to play and is capable of soloing pretty much everything champion and below by pressing 2 buttons. However that's all it is good for.

 

How do you measure which class is good in dps? Is there an addon or something to track it?

[Warscythes.9307]

> @"Brand.9670" said:

> > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > @"Brand.9670" said:

> > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> > > > 4) They already take aggro which is why I made answer 1. Mobs will attack your minions instead of you and that's how you survive. Note this is for open world pve only.

> > >

> > > But currently if I auto-attack enemies in the open world, they go after me instead of my minions.

> >

> > I am guessing is that you are using toughness gear. You are pretty much unkillable with full damage gear playing minion master, so wear that.

> >

> > Even if you are getting hit which does happen. Dagger 2 and going to shroud is enough to recover from anything. Trust me MM necro is absolutely braindead to play and is capable of soloing pretty much everything champion and below by pressing 2 buttons. However that's all it is good for.

>

> How do you measure which class is good in dps? Is there an addon or something to track it?

 

Yes, arcdps. Google it and should be relatively easy to find.

 

People already did the numbers for you though. https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

 

However I will mention that this is golem dps with raid buffs, as in this is made for raids only.The golem is standing still doing nothing while somebody hit it with realistic raid buffs/debuffs like 25 might, fury etc etc to calculate it. Bosses move, Chronos screw up their rotation and sometimes you need to use a cc instead of damage, so things change but it does gives a good reference of where classes stand.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

If you take Vampiric Presence in blood they also increase their self heal, heal you more, and increase life steal. As support scourge they do good damage and can cleanse conditions like there's no tomorrow. With traits in scourge you can give them might with barrier and also cleanse conditions off them. They are very strong with a healy scourge.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> You do practically no damage

 

Scepter says hi, and wonders if you want anything from McD

[Obtena.7952]

^^ Indeed, Scepter Condi build is the best way to get the most from a minion master, especially if you want what the OP does ... minions to tank for you. Minions benefit from your condi stat ... it only makes sense.

[Brand.9670]

Thanks all. Yes I have also maneuvered my way to a scepter. Initially I wanted scepter for the bleed effect in order to trigger Blood Bond.

Then I saw Lingering Curse's +100 condition damage bonus, and I just stuck with it.

 

I have since finished my personal story, and bought Heart of Thorns.

 

However, I have read something disturbing. That pets only do 5% of your dps. If that's true, how are they still meatshields? 5% cannot possibly generate that much aggro.

[Sephylon.4938]

Just the way mobs are scripted; to prioritize pets over players. Also dps is not as big an indicator of ago in this game. Toughness seems to play a bigger role to mob agro than dps.

[Anchoku.8142]

A couple of points to remember about your scepter-based minion master

1. Scepter builds do not generate as much life force as axe, dagger, or greatsword so use scepter 3, Feast of Corruption, as often as possible to keep your life force coming. Minions will only give life force if they die. Also, do not be afraid of using staff to build LF, too.

2. Arenanet has made it clear that they prefer to reward player skill with more damage and Necromancer has 5 AI pets. The game developers will try to ensure damage attributed to minions is moderated.

[Rhyse.8179]

1. MM is popular for open world or solo story content. It's tanky and versatile in that content. It's pretty garbage in everything else, because minions either just die or because they cause aggro problems.

2. The only other way is to stack vulnerability on your targets. Look at Axe ,or "Bitter Chill" in curses. For this reason a Chill Condi Reaper, or a Decimate Defenses Reaper, make good MM.

3. It doesn't, because no minions do condition damage. Some do debuffs (like cripple) but that's not worth gearing for by itself.

4. Don't use toughness gear (enemies are attracked to high toughness targets) and don't stand in melee range. That's pretty much it.

 

FWIW, Shadow Fiend is a strong minion that's usable in many builds, even non-MM ones, because of it's good LF gain. Flesh Golem is also strong and could maybe be used in other builds. The rest are only useful in a pure MM build.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> Just the way mobs are scripted; to prioritize pets over players. Also dps is not as big an indicator of ago in this game. Toughness seems to play a bigger role to mob agro than dps.

 

Indeed... Aggro is determined by toughness and minions have toughness. If the necromancer have more toughness than it's minions he take aggro, if the minions have more toughness than the necromancer they take aggro. That's why it's always debatable whether one should use DM in a minion build and why I think BM just for the sake of vampiric is a better option than DM in minion builds.

 

The minions aren't strong enough to be main dps tools but are they a proper defensive tool if taking minions increase your toughness and thus make you the one who take aggro? DM minions traits always seem to go against logic.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> A couple of points to remember about your scepter-based minion master

> 1. Scepter builds do not generate as much life force as axe, dagger, or greatsword so use scepter 3, Feast of Corruption, as often as possible to keep your life force coming. Minions will only give life force if they die. Also, do not be afraid of using staff to build LF, too.

 

That's not exactly true. Shadow fiend generates 10% lf by using the active.

 

> 2. Arenanet has made it clear that they prefer to reward player skill with more damage and Necromancer has 5 AI pets. The game developers will try to ensure damage attributed to minions is moderated.

 

If they made it that clear, why is power necro still using 3 minions to do dmg in raids?

Or why does scourge use Shadowdienst if epi isn't needed?

 

That can just indicate two things:

1. Necro is a very bad designed profession that doesn't have enough DPS tools, because most of its abilities are very niche

2. It is intended, but that would also be the complete opposite of what anet made clear.

 

If anet really wanted to reward active playstyle they would have to change necro completely:

1. Remove minions that tank for you

2. Remove second health bar from shroud

3. Add dodges and mobility (active defenses)

4. Give it more dmg potential

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > A couple of points to remember about your scepter-based minion master

> > 1. Scepter builds do not generate as much life force as axe, dagger, or greatsword so use scepter 3, Feast of Corruption, as often as possible to keep your life force coming. Minions will only give life force if they die. Also, do not be afraid of using staff to build LF, too.

>

> That's not exactly true. Shadow fiend generates 10% lf by using the active.

>

> > 2. Arenanet has made it clear that they prefer to reward player skill with more damage and Necromancer has 5 AI pets. The game developers will try to ensure damage attributed to minions is moderated.

>

> If they made it that clear, why is power necro still using 3 minions to do dmg in raids?

> Or why does scourge use Shadowdienst if epi isn't needed?

>

> That can just indicate two things:

> 1. Necro is a very bad designed profession that doesn't have enough DPS tools, because most of its abilities are very niche

> 2. It is intended, but that would also be the complete opposite of what anet made clear.

>

> If anet really wanted to reward active playstyle they would have to change necro completely:

> 1. Remove minions that tank for you

> 2. Remove second health bar from shroud

> 3. Add dodges and mobility (active defenses)

> 4. Give it more dmg potential

>

>

 

Valid points; it has been years since Shadow Fiend started generating LF from its active but I just forgot about it.

 

Regarding slotting minions in instanced combat, perhaps it is because defensive utilities are not necessary and Necro has not very many strong damaging utilities. Many are for debuffing. Shout utilities, most signet utilities, spectral utilities, most corruption utilities, and punishment utilities are either defensive or do not work that great on boss mobs. Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Epidemic, Signet of Spite, and minions are just about all I can think of that add any significant dps. Does that make them good or just the best out of bad options?

 

Taking Shadow Fiend because it is better than Well of Corruption that has nothing to corrupt and fixed AoE that mobs wander out of is sad but makes sense. Minion skills for breakbars and minions' ability to follow moving targets are what makes them useful, I think.

 

I am not really disputing your points, rather, considering why the utility and Elite skills brought to raids are what they are: Raid encounter designs, bosses, and ally skills negate a lot of Necromancer's utility but that goes the same for many other professions.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > A couple of points to remember about your scepter-based minion master

> > > 1. Scepter builds do not generate as much life force as axe, dagger, or greatsword so use scepter 3, Feast of Corruption, as often as possible to keep your life force coming. Minions will only give life force if they die. Also, do not be afraid of using staff to build LF, too.

> >

> > That's not exactly true. Shadow fiend generates 10% lf by using the active.

> >

> > > 2. Arenanet has made it clear that they prefer to reward player skill with more damage and Necromancer has 5 AI pets. The game developers will try to ensure damage attributed to minions is moderated.

> >

> > If they made it that clear, why is power necro still using 3 minions to do dmg in raids?

> > Or why does scourge use Shadowdienst if epi isn't needed?

> >

> > That can just indicate two things:

> > 1. Necro is a very bad designed profession that doesn't have enough DPS tools, because most of its abilities are very niche

> > 2. It is intended, but that would also be the complete opposite of what anet made clear.

> >

> > If anet really wanted to reward active playstyle they would have to change necro completely:

> > 1. Remove minions that tank for you

> > 2. Remove second health bar from shroud

> > 3. Add dodges and mobility (active defenses)

> > 4. Give it more dmg potential

> >

> >

>

> Valid points; it has been years since Shadow Fiend started generating LF from its active but I just forgot about it.

>

> Regarding slotting minions in instanced combat, perhaps it is because defensive utilities are not necessary and Necro has not very many strong damaging utilities. Many are for debuffing. Shout utilities, most signet utilities, spectral utilities, most corruption utilities, and punishment utilities are either defensive or do not work that great on boss mobs. Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Epidemic, Signet of Spite, and minions are just about all I can think of that add any significant dps. Does that make them good or just the best out of bad options?

>

> Taking Shadow Fiend because it is better than Well of Corruption that has nothing to corrupt and fixed AoE that mobs wander out of is sad but makes sense. Minion skills for breakbars and minions' ability to follow moving targets are what makes them useful, I think.

>

> I am not really disputing your points, rather, considering why the utility and Elite skills brought to raids are what they are: Raid encounter designs, bosses, and ally skills negate a lot of Necromancer's utility but that goes the same for many other professions.

 

True.

The problem here: that minions are actually the most damaging skills, which shouldn't really be the idea