[Serious Discussion] Why is there so much Mesmer Love from ANET?

[Magek.4718]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"WilnerGW.3275" said:

> > Why does Anet loves Mesmer so much?

>

> Why is mesmer the only profession that was cut by one third of his gameplay because of forum mafia ?

>

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said :

> >hats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

> Not really, mesmer was way more stronger for the first 3 years, particulary in duel than it is now.

> It's just that there was a forum secte, particulary on the mesmer forum who said : " play shatter burst pgm spec or you are a noob", they just promote monogameplay, kill builds diversity and never look at other things.

> I can assure you that with somes old 20/25/15/10/0 or 20/30/20/0/0 or other hybrid spec, I was way more efficient than now.

> Moreover I will not list the panel of nerf like 3 sword bs removed, 3 sword blink when clone die no more work and so on but combine that with all the teamplay class who get better in duel : mesmer was way more stronger than it is now despite being outmeta before.

 

That's what I've been saying but whenever I do, I get called an idiot!

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

>

> Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

 

I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

[Levetty.1279]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

> >

> > Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

>

> I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

 

Thief burst doesn't have the cleave to trigger clone death traits.

[RabbitUp.8294]

Why does anet love warriors so much? Spellbreakers are a staple in wvw, great in pvp and mandatory in pve for their banners from the day the game launched till the servers shut down.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

> > >

> > > Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

> >

> > I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

>

> Thief burst doesn't have the cleave to trigger clone death traits.

 

You didn't need it. You just kept pumping out clones and thieves would melt. The only way you'd lose to a thief on a clone dearh build is if you were afk. In fact, the only way you'd lose to *anything* on a clone death build was if you were afk. I played that build to top 50 of both solo and team queue by myself by just going far and forcing teams to send 3 people, cause if they sent 2 people I'd kill them both. I usually hunted for groups of 5+ in WvW cause anything less was usually not a challenge.

 

Clone death was probably one of the most busted builds this game has ever seen.

[Levetty.1279]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

> > > >

> > > > Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

> > >

> > > I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

> >

> > Thief burst doesn't have the cleave to trigger clone death traits.

>

> You didn't need it. You just kept pumping out clones and thieves would melt. The only way you'd lose to a thief on a clone dearh build is if you were afk. In fact, the only way you'd lose to *anything* on a clone death build was if you were afk. I played that build to top 50 of both solo and team queue by myself by just going far and forcing teams to send 3 people, cause if they sent 2 people I'd kill them both. I usually hunted for groups of 5+ in WvW cause anything less was usually not a challenge.

>

> Clone death was probably one of the most busted builds this game has ever seen.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot creating new clones triggered it.

[viquing.8254]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> You didn't need it. You just kept pumping out clones and thieves would melt. The only way you'd lose to a thief on a clone dearh build is if you were afk. In fact, the only way you'd lose to *anything* on a clone death build was if you were afk. I played that build to top 50 of both solo and team queue by myself by just going far and forcing teams to send 3 people, cause if they sent 2 people I'd kill them both. I usually hunted for groups of 5+ in WvW cause anything less was usually not a challenge.

>

> Clone death was probably one of the most busted builds this game has ever seen.

 

Thanks for the extrapolation but be more precise please :

* clone death alone didn't allow easy 1v3, it's the combo with DE and PU who make it easy. You have vid of 20/30/20/0/0 1v3 ?

* clone death was good vs plebs because plebs mindless cleave and stay between clones. With 240 aoe it was more than easy to don't get hit.

* ps : it's cool to know that you never met good thieves.

 

Good to have your opinion against the mecanic but :

* Because of this kind of view shared by all the good forum thinking we lose one third of our gameplay and go for shatter monogameplay during more than 3 years.

* There were better to do than totally remove this gameplay => move trait were they compete with synergy for example.

 

 

 

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> * clone death alone didn't allow easy 1v3, it's the combo with DE and PU who make it easy. You have vid of 20/30/20/0/0 1v3 ?

 

Certainly true. The build as a whole was busted, but the clone death mechanic itself was what enabled it. DE and PU were fine in many builds, it's the addition of clone death that made it absurd.

 

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> * clone death was good vs plebs because plebs mindless cleave and stay between clones. With 240 aoe it was more than easy to don't get hit.

 

As I just noted with Levetty, clone death did not rely on the enemy cleaving. You forced the pops actively through clone and phantasm generation, and the 240 aoe was more than enough to hit anyone actually trying to engage.

 

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> * ps : it's cool to know that you never met good thieves.

 

You must be new to this class if you think I never met good thieves.

 

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> Good to have your opinion against the mecanic but :

> * Because of this kind of view shared by all the good forum thinking we lose one third of our gameplay and go for mono shatter gameplay during more than 3 years.

> * There were better to do than totally remove this gameplay => move trait were they compete with synergy for example.

 

I'm not going to really get into it right now, but the short version is that the very concept of the clone-death mechanic was anti-fun to play against. Regardless of the relative strength of the mechanic, it wasn't enjoyable to interact with, and that's why it was removed. Anet had 2 basic choices: nerf it into the ground or remove it. Nerfing it into the ground would have left us with a number of dead traits taking up space on our class, so removal was the better option.

[viquing.8254]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> Certainly true. The build as a whole was busted, but the clone death mechanic itself was what enabled it. DE and PU were fine in many builds, it's the addition of clone death that made it absurd.

Same can be said for DE and PU : on death were fine in many build, thats the addition of PU and DE who make it imba.

 

> As I just noted with Levetty, clone death did not rely on the enemy cleaving. You forced the pops actively through clone and phantasm generation, and the 240 aoe was more than enough to hit anyone actually trying to engage.

 

Yes it was particulary strong vs melee. But they fixed the over-production trigger just before remove the gameplay. And 240 aoe vs someone permanantly moving is really easy to evade, particullary because of how clones move.

 

> > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > * ps : it's cool to know that you never met good thieves.

>

> You must be new to this class if you think I never met good thieves.

Not really, I just don't post during first years in this forum. I probably saw all your contributions from your tanky old retaliation builds to today.

A good thief with a hit&run gameplay should not lose vs a clonnespammer build.

 

> I'm not going to really get into it right now, but the short version is that the very concept of the clone-death mechanic was anti-fun to play against. Regardless of the relative strength of the mechanic, it wasn't enjoyable to interact with, and that's why it was removed. Anet had 2 basic choices: nerf it into the ground or remove it. Nerfing it into the ground would have left us with a number of dead traits taking up space on our class, so removal was the better option.

It's your opinion.

I really enjoyed face on death and playing it because it was all about positioning from your clones and opponent's clones.

Moreover, it promoted long fight which from my view were better than all the cheese who came from extensions with 4 to 5 effetcs on shatter and all bursty builds (condi burst or direct burst...).

The best solution for me was probably split it in 1/2 traits after the 23 june rework, put one in duel GM so player can't take it with DE and put one on chaos GM so player can't take PU with it. Or in a line where player can't choose sustain with this. No nerf needed, problem fixed and everyone happy. And don't say it would left dead traits, there is always many dead traits.

I do not think at all that it was the best answer because all mesmer mecanics were made between the three big gameplay : shatter, fantasmes, clones (lol at mantra when they explained the on death removal.) and I find personnaly that mesmer gameplay were laking something since they did it with the orientation : all shatter for years (with 5 effects per shatter.).

 

[Hannelore.8153]

As others have said, the problem isn't Mesmer.

 

If anything, Mesmer is the only fully fleshed out class in this game and that is why it is doing well. The issue is more that the other professions are just...bad. Like all of them, bad design decisions and way too much oversimplification.

 

This is why people end up only playing classes like Chronomancer, Firebrand, etc, because they are complex and rewarding.

[otto.5684]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

> > > >

> > > > Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

> > >

> > > I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

> >

> > Thief burst doesn't have the cleave to trigger clone death traits.

>

> You didn't need it. You just kept pumping out clones and thieves would melt. The only way you'd lose to a thief on a clone dearh build is if you were afk. In fact, the only way you'd lose to *anything* on a clone death build was if you were afk. I played that build to top 50 of both solo and team queue by myself by just going far and forcing teams to send 3 people, cause if they sent 2 people I'd kill them both. I usually hunted for groups of 5+ in WvW cause anything less was usually not a challenge.

>

> Clone death was probably one of the most busted builds this game has ever seen.

 

I was not around in the good old days ?. How did the clone death operate?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> They have nerfed mesmer many times.

 

the nerfs are so baseless that don't actually make a difference because other classes get nerfed too and other classes getting pointless buffs that dont do anything and when that happens it's no surprise that mirage stays the best class for PvP

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > > > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

> > >

> > > Thief burst doesn't have the cleave to trigger clone death traits.

> >

> > You didn't need it. You just kept pumping out clones and thieves would melt. The only way you'd lose to a thief on a clone dearh build is if you were afk. In fact, the only way you'd lose to *anything* on a clone death build was if you were afk. I played that build to top 50 of both solo and team queue by myself by just going far and forcing teams to send 3 people, cause if they sent 2 people I'd kill them both. I usually hunted for groups of 5+ in WvW cause anything less was usually not a challenge.

> >

> > Clone death was probably one of the most busted builds this game has ever seen.

>

> I was not around in the good old days ?. How did the clone death operate?

 

Clone death builds worked around a set of traits that caused clones to explode with aoe conditions when they died. This explosion would occur both when they were directly killed and when they were overwritten due to being at the illusion cap. You generally took 2 traits that caused conditions, one caused aoe cripple and the other would do either a few stacks of bleed, vuln, or weakness. These explosions were unblockable and undodgeable. You'd run it with scepter/torch + staff, prismatic understanding, and deceptive evasion. Basically what would happen is that anyone engaging on you would get hit by cripple, weakness, and a zillion stacks of bleed due to all the clones popping on them. You had the scepter block and confusion beam to add to that as well. The explosions didn't unstealth you, so you'd pop into torch stealth or decoy and dodge around a bit to keep generating clones and causing damage while in stealth. You ran a very tanky gear setup, either dire or rabid/dire, so it was extremely difficult to kill you. No build could attack it in melee range without getting blown up. You couldn't hit-and-run on thief, cause you'd torment block the hit, fart conditions on top of them, and then just heal back up if they ran. In theory you could just kite with a ranger longbow or something if you never went melee range, but realistically you'd have to go melee eventually or just get gapclosed with blink or something.

 

The one true counter to the build was having some condition removal and running away without engaging in any way, shape, or form. This obviously was not a functional counter for PvP, and rarely would people have the self-discipline to do that in WvW. It was an incredibly un-fun build to fight, because there was no way to cope with the mechanics. You could try to avoid cleaving the clones, but the mesmer would just blow them up on you anyway. You could try to bring condition removal, but the application rate made that impossible to execute. You could try to burst the mesmer, but running 18k-20k hp with protection, blocks, and stealth made that pretty much a non-starter. You could try to purely kite at range, but that's not realistic for the vast majority of classes, and hard to execute even with a dedicated build. Entering a fight with a clone-death mesmer was basically a foregone conclusion, and it sucked.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > They have nerfed mesmer many times.

>

> the nerfs are so baseless that don't actually make a difference because other classes get nerfed too and other classes getting pointless buffs that dont do anything and when that happens it's no surprise that mirage stays the best class for PvP

 

??

What baseless nerfs in your opinion has mesmer had?

 

Since lets say March of this year.

 

[otto.5684]

@"Pyroatheist.9031" thanks! That sounded bugged, broken and bizarre ?

[Magek.4718]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > > > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

> > >

> > > Thief burst doesn't have the cleave to trigger clone death traits.

> >

> > You didn't need it. You just kept pumping out clones and thieves would melt. The only way you'd lose to a thief on a clone dearh build is if you were afk. In fact, the only way you'd lose to *anything* on a clone death build was if you were afk. I played that build to top 50 of both solo and team queue by myself by just going far and forcing teams to send 3 people, cause if they sent 2 people I'd kill them both. I usually hunted for groups of 5+ in WvW cause anything less was usually not a challenge.

> >

> > Clone death was probably one of the most busted builds this game has ever seen.

>

> I was not around in the good old days ?. How did the clone death operate?

 

When your clone, died it exploded and did some effects based on which on-death traits equipped.

 

It was a nice little thing that allowed for non-shatter builds.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Magek.4718" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > > > > Because they buffed it so much and made it so essential in everything, they dont know how to balance it without completely breaking it and making it useless.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thats true. First 3 years Mesmers was kitten on by all classes. Especially Thieves. Until Hot & Chrono came out. Then it got better.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not gonna comment on this too much, but seems to me that you have scrubbed clone death from your memory.

> > > >

> > > > Thief burst doesn't have the cleave to trigger clone death traits.

> > >

> > > You didn't need it. You just kept pumping out clones and thieves would melt. The only way you'd lose to a thief on a clone dearh build is if you were afk. In fact, the only way you'd lose to *anything* on a clone death build was if you were afk. I played that build to top 50 of both solo and team queue by myself by just going far and forcing teams to send 3 people, cause if they sent 2 people I'd kill them both. I usually hunted for groups of 5+ in WvW cause anything less was usually not a challenge.

> > >

> > > Clone death was probably one of the most busted builds this game has ever seen.

> >

> > I was not around in the good old days ?. How did the clone death operate?

>

> When your clone, died it exploded and did some effects based on which on-death traits equipped.

>

> It was a nice little thing that allowed for non-shatter builds.

 

Sounds like rats & minions & pets. Oh wait a sec.. it is like rats, minions & pets. Go figure :open_mouth:

[viquing.8254]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> I was not around in the good old days ?. How did the clone death operate?

 

To complete what pyro said :

the problem was the combo bewteen thoses 4 traits (2 on death and PU + DE.) which allow damaging and cripple from stealth.

We probably all agree that it was op **But** on the other side there were somes full clonespammer builds with no stealth and no PU who were as hard to play as shatter burst (and even on power build, somes used on death.). That's why I really disagree with what they did.

 

Criticizing his extrapolation :

* Zillion stacks of bleed came from illusions attacks, not from on death effects.

* Thief have better stealth uptime than mesmer since day 1 and had way better mobility, it's not a 2 sec fight but it's not either a one side fight.

* A good counter to on death were single-target distance **and** condi.

* Just by running mantra build (pain & recovery.), you couldn't be killed by on death build. I never run away from a blackwater or something like.

* This was not functional for high end PvP because player have dispell, know how to position versus clones and stealth was never a good idea for capping point.

 

So basically, because of one op synergy we lose a third of mesmer gameplay and many not op builds. (to complete what I said about moving trait so player can't take anymore the synergy, I forgot to said that damaging from stealth isn't a issue as long as they can put somes 5 damage when trigger to unstealth.)

And basically, this is because of everyone's extrapolation in this forum combined with the pgm shatter skill hype that they can remove it with no remorse.

@"Pyroatheist.9031" : it would be good one day to stop generalize one op synergy to all the mecanic.

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

I have to admit to finding it a bit disingenuous that the thread is taking it as a given that the mesmer is getting special treatment as ArenaNet's baby.

 

Overall, the mesmer has possibly had the most tumultuous balance history. It's had entire build themes stripped out (not just rendered nonviable, but removed altogether) stripped out at least twice now: first with the removal of clone death traits, and now with the removal of sustained phantasms.

 

The current position the mesmer holds is, in part, because the core profession was completely overhauled less than a year ago. While this was probably done with the intention of making mesmer easier to balance in the long run, in the short term it has meant that the balancing of the mesmer essentially went right back to square 1. The difference in behaviour is so profound that it's almost like they removed the old mesmer altogether and introduced a similar but completely new profession to replace it, and new mesmer has had less time to be iterated on than most elite specialisations (let alone core professions) have.

 

On top of this, there seems to be a proportion of the playerbase that simply doesn't want to have to put the effort in to learn to deal with less straightforward professions like mesmers and thieves, and tend to cry foul whenever these professions start being able to hold their ground rather than being primarily mobility-based +1ers and decappers. This tends to mean that if you use forum reactions as your yardstick, mesmers and thieves will always appear to be stronger than they actually are. My general yardstick is "does the principle of if you can't beat'em, join'em actually work" - often you find that the build that's giving you trouble has more weaknesses than you think. (And sometimes you find it really is so powerful that switching to that profession means you suddenly do a lot better despite having little idea of what you're doing... *coughPoFreleasescourgecough*)

[Magek.4718]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> I have to admit to finding it a bit disingenuous that the thread is taking it as a given that the mesmer is getting special treatment as ArenaNet's baby.

>

> **Overall, the mesmer has possibly had the most tumultuous balance history. It's had entire build themes stripped out (not just rendered nonviable, but removed altogether) stripped out at least twice now: first with the removal of clone death traits, and now with the removal of sustained phantasms.**

>

> **The current position the mesmer holds is, in part, because the core profession was completely overhauled less than a year ago. While this was probably done with the intention of making mesmer easier to balance in the long run, in the short term it has meant that the balancing of the mesmer essentially went right back to square 1. The difference in behaviour is so profound that it's almost like they removed the old mesmer altogether and introduced a similar but completely new profession to replace it, and new mesmer has had less time to be iterated on than most elite specialisations (let alone core professions) have.**

>

> On top of this, there seems to be a proportion of the playerbase that simply doesn't want to have to put the effort in to learn to deal with less straightforward professions like mesmers and thieves, and tend to cry foul whenever these professions start being able to hold their ground rather than being primarily mobility-based +1ers and decappers. This tends to mean that if you use forum reactions as your yardstick, mesmers and thieves will always appear to be stronger than they actually are. My general yardstick is "does the principle of if you can't beat'em, join'em actually work" - often you find that the build that's giving you trouble has more weaknesses than you think. (And sometimes you find it really is so powerful that switching to that profession means you suddenly do a lot better despite having little idea of what you're doing... *coughPoFreleasescourgecough*)

 

 

This. I'm in the process of trying to find a new main class because what I liked about Mesmer was just straight up removed from the game. It's just not a fun class for me to play anymore and the game as a whole has felt a little sour since as a result.

 

And I'm having a pretty hard time finding a class I liked as much as Mesmer. Removing entire playstyles is just bad game design, no matter which way you slice it.

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > They have nerfed mesmer many times.

> >

> > the nerfs are so baseless that don't actually make a difference because other classes get nerfed too and other classes getting pointless buffs that dont do anything and when that happens it's no surprise that mirage stays the best class for PvP

>

> ??

> What baseless nerfs in your opinion has mesmer had?

>

> Since lets say March of this year.

>

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirror_Blade

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Warlock

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment (1s stability)

Is this new domination trait count ?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > They have nerfed mesmer many times.

> > >

> > > the nerfs are so baseless that don't actually make a difference because other classes get nerfed too and other classes getting pointless buffs that dont do anything and when that happens it's no surprise that mirage stays the best class for PvP

> >

> > ??

> > What baseless nerfs in your opinion has mesmer had?

> >

> > Since lets say March of this year.

> >

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirror_Blade

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Warlock

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment (1s stability)

> Is this new domination trait count ?

 

Phantasmal Warlock is the only one that was kind of baseless.

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

And nerf MB was based on ... forum qq? While power mesmer wasnt dominant or part of the meta ...ever?

I would call its baseless because they just have done it to overkill chrono bunker while hurt core/mirage . Same with warlock , just slap 50% dmg nerf on every skill that does damage ,weird they didnt halved damage on autos

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> And nerf MB was based on ... forum qq? While power mesmer wasnt dominant or part of the meta ...ever?

> I would call its baseless because they just have done it to overkill chrono bunker while hurt core/mirage . Same with warlock , just slap 50% dmg nerf on every skill that does damage ,weird they didnt halved damage on autos

 

Power Mirage has been rock solid with no shortage of showings in the top 100 on both EU and NA. Not as dominant as Condi Mirage, but there.

 

With bountiful disillusionment, both Chaos Chronos and Chaos Mirages were absolutely nuts post phantasm update.

 

Warlock was a bit of a headscratcher.

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > And nerf MB was based on ... forum qq? While power mesmer wasnt dominant or part of the meta ...ever?

> > I would call its baseless because they just have done it to overkill chrono bunker while hurt core/mirage . Same with warlock , just slap 50% dmg nerf on every skill that does damage ,weird they didnt halved damage on autos

>

> Power Mirage has been rock solid with no shortage of showings in the top 100 on both EU and NA. Not as dominant as Condi Mirage, but there.

>

> With bountiful disillusionment, both Chaos Chronos and Chaos Mirages were absolutely nuts post phantasm update.

>

> Warlock was a bit of a headscratcher.

Before nerf I seen only 1 power mesmer , spoiler , he lost (eu) and he wasnt even on LB i think xD No idea from where you got that info that they were 'rock solid in top100' . Not to count people arent played 100% of games with only 1 build/class ... Occasional 2-3 mesmers in ~top 100 isnt reason to nerf power mesmer . If we look at leaderboards now we will see that most LB overrun by soulboons,holos and duoq scourge/fb ,no one talking about soulbeasts even xD

Like I dont know? BD nerf dropped in same time with other 50% damage nerfs . If this nerf on stab wouldnt happen chrono would be still OP with chaos mirage ?

I would even give you an example what Anet already did : they given only 1 boon corruption on necro trait in curses IF scourge elite spec equipped , why not make 1 or 2 seconds stab when CHRONO elite equipped only?