make staff a hybrid condi/utility weapon?

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @draxynnic.3719 i would rather have vulnerability on cor than useless bleeds, i dont play condi, nor hammer is set for condi builds that is ruining the weapon. if that is what u want, while vulnerability would help both players that play power, and condi, since damage and condition damage taken are increased by it.

> > > >

> > > > But for that we already have sword, bleeds alone would not do a thing, even on a condi builds we have way better options, hammer is on good position as it is IMO.

> > > > Now if u want to add bleed or vulnerability to other weapon that's ok., maybe on UA , maybe bleed on sword, or staff 5 ?

> > > >

> > > > **Rev's are amazing on WvW atm with alot of roles if u want, m8 be the unque class that isnt tied to one must do it meta.**

> > >

> > > Hammer has the problem of being borderline overpowered in WvW zergfights, while the nerfs it has received to get it under that line have rendered it pretty much nonexistent everywhere else outside of core revs and heralds in PvE who need a ranged weapon and have no other option. If you're only looking at it in the WvW context, you are looking at it in the only context where it is actually seen as a viable weapon.

> > >

> > > Look through the metabattle builds if you don't believe me. Now, I'm not claiming that metabattle is the be all and end all, but hammer is _literally nonexistent_ in revenant builds outside of WvW there. Power builds, condi builds, support builds... not one carries a hammer, unless swapped in for content where melee absolutely will not work. Even among the WvW builds, hammer is only present in those intended for large-scale engagements.

> > >

> > > Converting _some_ of the physical damage to bleed stacks could allow it to actually branch out without needing as many splits. It can be tuned so that as a pure power damage build, the expected damage is about the same or even higher, just with some of it coming out of a DoT effect rather than being an immediate spike. This would give it more counterplay in the WvW conditions in which it IS strong, which might allow it to be stronger overall.

> > >

> > > Heck, the current damage scaling that CoR has in WvW (which is lower than in PvE or sPvP) _might not even change at all_. Just have some free bleeds on top... if they're not cleansed before they have the chance to do much, that is (which is why the balancing team might be able to afford this: a zerg versus zerg fight has a high chance of conditions being cleansed by allies before they do much). For a more condition-oriented build in smaller-scale fighting, though, the hammer (which, as a reminder, is the ONLY ranged weapon available for non-renegede revenants) can at least do _something._

> > >

> > > Now, the optimal approach would probably be for ArenaNet to knuckle down and make a new weaponset altogether for core condition revenants. That's enough of a long shot that we should be considering other options, however.

> >

> > About rev being OP...

> > Yes and no, u can aoe back some classes can overhwelm very easilly when stacked together.

> > Rev is OP when stacked players 60%-70% of zerg/group are scourges with losts of aoe spam + barrier, and the other side dont have many scourges.

> > Due how scourges stack for easy effort of sustain and aoe spam, rev is balanced.

> >

> > But that's how Anet wants players to leech from aoe spam, nothing can be done there.

>

> As soon as you say "yes and no", isn't that pretty much conceding my statement of 'borderline overpowered'?

>

> Zerg versus zerg fights are not something I get into much, so I'm mostly working off the rationale that has been given for the nerfs. Which finally culminated in CoR being split in WvW but not PvE or sPvP (an unusual combination, since normally the WvW version matches with either the sPvP version or the PvE version), but not before hammer had been hit with enough nerfs to pretty much wipe it from the meta outside of WvW.

>

> Ultimately, the point is that saying that hammer is good in WvW is ignoring the fact that it's practically a meme weapon in every other environment, and on this basis, a buff that doesn't help much in WvW, but which does help in other environments, is probably a good way to go in lifting it out of meme status.

 

 

Rev hammer is only OP if u dont atack it or dont know its counters...

On small scale deamon mace condi build if far strong than power hammer actually :) rev hammer isnt OP on small scale fight, cause if focused dies in 1-2 sec, people in this game just dont know what to hit first most of times, nor they know what gank and spikes means, hoping to be carried with spam with all the aoes to try to hit everything, even on small scalle this happens, just throw a warrior based build into it and he can do anything, a hoilosmith with kill it w/o issues, or even a adeadeye will almost 1shot it, since most play marauder or zerker, and the ones that dont, dont do high damage.

 

Rev hammer is OP due scourge supporting them( This one is on ANet making scourge spam condi and barrier class with lots of AOE's), and when he is hidden between the numbers, while every one is aoe'ing each other w/o logic and randomly, 1 or 2 hammer rev's focusing their damage in call targetted targets with be very effective but that is not cause class is OP itself but because players in this game are actually extremelly bad.

 

Rev does not have invunerabilities.... dont forget that.

IMO hammer need to stay clear of condition, pure power weapon, range damage and condi would be OP, and theres already decent classes for that.

 

Staff by the other hand... since its melee range, i could imagine some condi towards it :\

 

 

(OH and the vanilla broken bloodlust is back, that actually makes some power classes super broken in damage)

[draxynnic.3719]

Again, you're pretty much demonstrating my point?

 

Rev hammer is strong in large-scale fights, where the revs can be screened and supported by allies, and where a series of CoR attacks can spike multiple targets at once (with a large area of effect, so this can happen just through multiple revs CoRing in the same general direction at once). It's attracted a lot of nerfs in order to reign it in a bit when under these conditions.

 

It's all but useless in small-scale fights, partially as a result of those nerfs (it was seeing some play in sPvP until the nerfbat hits started landing). Which is why it finally got a split in WvW. Right now, the _only_ place where people see revenant hammer as being a useful weapon at all is in large scale WvW and in PvE situations where you absolutely _have_ to go ranged and aren't running renegade.

 

Which means that adjustments that don't substantially affect it in large-scale fights but which can make it stronger at smaller scales or in PvE would be quite appropriate. Bleeds fit into this category, since in large-scale combat it's likely that the bleeds will get removed before they can stack up much, but in smaller-scale combat or against PvE enemies they have more chance to do something.