OGDeadHead.8326 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > ... that's what vitality is for is. Quite literally, it's in the name - better vitality, good resistance to disease. It's a hp buffer against condis. Vitality is only good as an initial buffer, since you won't be able to heal up enough. I prefer being able to mitigate damage any day, like you do with toughness. Having 40,000 HP vs 20,000, but in the latter case being able to mitigate half the incoming damage, and in the first you don't mitigate anything, while being able to heal for the same 5000 HP in both scenarios. Now if vitality had some impact on how much you could heal for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"breno.5423" said: > > @"jportell.2197" said: > > > @"breno.5423" said: > > > > @"jportell.2197" said: > > > > > @"breno.5423" said: > > > > > Its ok to have lot of CC, but you can't have lots of CC, and mobility, and damage, and sustain, all at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > And yes, mesmer isnt the only one who deserve nerfs. > > > > > > > > People keep talking about this mirage sustain. And I'm just not seeing. Mirage has ONE stunbreak in the meta build, jaunt is a joke as it won't even teleport you out of most cleave, it could not teleport at all and it would still be taken for the condi clear. > > > > > > > > Mirage cannot sustain through damage, its heal is very poor, and jaunt has already been nerfed, then nerfed again. > > > > > > > > They could remove the daze from sword ambush skill and it would still be taken as well. > > > > > > Mesmer sustain: > > > > > > Mechanics = **>blur<, >distortion<, mirror**, target break (mirage), clones and ilusions through the way serving as **obstacles**, **>stealths<**, **>portal<**, **>teleports<** (staff 2, sword 3, jaunt - mirage, illusionary ambush - mirage, blink) > > > Crowd Controls = **>Dazes<**, stuns (sword ambush = mirage, mantra of distracting = zerker, shield skill 5 = chrono), etc (gravity wall, GS skill 5...) > > > Crowd Control Conditions = **>Blinds<**, weakness, cripple, imobilize, chill (staff), slow (chrono), etc > > > Boons = Protection, aegis (staff/F4), vigor, > > > Escape = portal, blink, stealths > > > > Please show me a build that has all of that. > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude Are you sniffing glue? That build has barely any CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveraptor.9603 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 > @"Ario.8964" said: > A good deal of it depends on your matchup but these are some of the general rules I use for fighting condi mirage and it's helped me be pretty successful: > 1) When they stealth, count to 3 and then dodge, they are most likely trying a massive condi burst (95% of players playing this build are mechanically meh and won't think to shift around their playstyle so you will see this opener almost every fight) and dodging it will let you avoid most of their damage while putting the player in a relly bad position > 2) The best time to cc them is when they use the axe whirl skill > 3) If you play something like holo, do static discharge bursts (or any other large on demand burst) during all their animation locks to punish them > 4) I find that if you get hit with a burst it's much easier to survive if you kite and start using LoS to force the mes to get in a more confined space where you can dump damage on him. Know that because they have superior mobility, most mirages will not hesitate to chase because they assume they can catch you quickly and pull off a kill. If you can get them to tunnel vision the kill, you can get a very strong bait play out of it. > 5) Manage your condi removal very sparingly, if you blow everything for each little condi you see, you'll be out of cd's before you get a chance to hit the mes. It will drive you crazy but sometimes you gotta get used to letting the condis tick if it saves your cds for a better time. > 6) Do your damage in bursts, mirage has a ton of evasion and invuln to use so trying to do constant damage can be very rough outside of things like weaver that can put out consistent pressure while evading > > Hope those have been helpful, let me know if there's anything else you want to know. I have a question regarding the stealth burst, does shield block stops it? or only evade works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 It's been covered in other threads, Mesmer is a soft/hard (depending on player skill) counter for all things Ranger. You will always be at a disadvantage much like Necro is at a disadvantage against YOU. While in a perfect world every class would be able to beat any other class. The reality is much more practical and counter classing is the only way of achieving some semblance of actual balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapzGW.3795 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Hello Yes another mirage thread! woohoo! But seriously how isnt mirage being balanced yet? im so sick and tired going against these power houses! I mean its allmost impossible it lockdown between the dazes, elusive mind, invunlnerable, and teleports (non "stunbreaks", take Jaunt as an example). If you stun them they just walk it of like it was nothing or they use daze essentially rendering you useless for the duration of the CC you put out. Yes! EM got a nerf but that was shite! it still hard to punish a mirage for making a mistake or even multiple mistakes, they just waltz away like its nothing, if you hit CC let them sit in that unless they have an actual goddamn stunbreak! And the clone spam is just ridiculous! just limit the mesmer to 3 clones or let the 3+clones do reduced dmg or no dmg at all. And not to mention the huge condi cover they have please just limit that to just a few! so atleast we can cleanse some of the dmg. Fuck mirage! - Snapz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Remove mirage cloak while CC'd (Except daze since every class can dodge while daze). Remove Stunbreak from Elusive Mind entirely. Let those nerfs cook for a while between balance patches and see how Mirage handles them. It should go a long way in making the class more bearable to fight against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Mesmer is limited to 3 clones already (if you run or dodge away from shattered clones so the mesmer can make new ones before the olds are shattered than it is a l2p issue) and mirage cloak can't be changed in the way that it is not instant during cc (except daze) and still can do everything else. Also that is not needed. No mirage without axe 3 or illusionary ambush can dodge that much, that it is any problem to hit the mirage. Just remove the stunbreak on EM and turn the trait into something useful. Its either broken with too less exhaustion or useless with too long exhaustion. Axe 3 and Illusionary Ambush need at least double the cd already. All skills/ traits give 2 phantasms instead one (staff 3, Imagined Burden) should get changed back to only one phantasm. That mesmer can generates clones over clones without the need of Deceptive Evasion is just stupid. Means for condimes they can still go op Ineptitude and for Powermes they can use op Superiority Complex without any opportunity costs in clone generation. Some condiambushes maybe could need a little nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 The only problem is condi/hybrid mirage, and especially axe is disgusting, so hard and unfun to play against. Why I have no problem against power mirages? Their burst is easy to spot and completely avoid, even if they run EM you can still have a good window to completely rekt them. Condi mirage is much more forgiving and easy and spammy to play, the burst is 10 times harder to dodge and on top of that even their sustain is 10 times higher. I hate the fact how a bad player can have a chance on a better player just because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 if you are ranger go S/D and if you think he's going to shatter dodge. You have access to more than enough on demand, plus signet. If they use stealth you have to anticipate and learn timings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razakin.5386 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 its called learn the damn game and you wont suck so much that condi mes is a problem. gw2 is a shitshow and all classes can be heavily unbalanced. but just because you cant learn game mechanics or care to practice doesnt mean its game breaking. instead of having everything handed to you, why dont you guys save those tears of yours and spend your time learning the game and its mechanics. my god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Its not the Mirage...its just you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UfoCoffee.2084 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 You have no chance. Condi mirage is the most brainless OP spec in the game and ranger is a free kill for them. Either run away like a bitch whenever you see them or reroll mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > Condi mirage is much more forgiving and easy and spammy to play, the burst is 10 times harder to dodge and on top of that even their sustain is 10 times higher. Can you even explain why its 'more' forgiving and why their sustain is '10 times higher' than on power mirage? xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence.3702 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > Condi mirage is much more forgiving and easy and spammy to play, the burst is 10 times harder to dodge and on top of that even their sustain is 10 times higher. > Can you even explain why its 'more' forgiving and why their sustain is '10 times higher' than on power mirage? xD Power mirage is still OP People just don't play it because you have condi mirage who's ridiculously op. Mirage is just that much high up there and people are scared of nerfs because deep inside they know they will have to work to get better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > Condi mirage is much more forgiving and easy and spammy to play, the burst is 10 times harder to dodge and on top of that even their sustain is 10 times higher. > Can you even explain why its 'more' forgiving and why their sustain is '10 times higher' than on power mirage? xD If they run staff the boon spam uptime is higher and axe gives more evades to chain almost nonstop. The visual clutter and clone spam is way higher in condi mirage than power mirage, plus the break target utilities comes in handy a lot. Against power mirage if i get killed i know why, against condi even if the enemy is noob he has good chances to win, pistol 5 plus pistol 4 plus shatter 2 it's a simple 3 buttons combo with so low cd and not so much risk to use and you flood the enemy with over 10 stacks confusion torment etc. Then add axe and the other skills and you see why it's more sustain than power version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > Condi mirage is much more forgiving and easy and spammy to play, the burst is 10 times harder to dodge and on top of that even their sustain is 10 times higher. > > Can you even explain why its 'more' forgiving and why their sustain is '10 times higher' than on power mirage? xD > > If they run staff the boon spam uptime is higher and axe gives more evades to chain almost nonstop. > The visual clutter and clone spam is way higher in condi mirage than power mirage, plus the break target utilities comes in handy a lot. > > Against power mirage if i get killed i know why, against condi even if the enemy is noob he has good chances to win, pistol 5 plus pistol 4 plus shatter 2 it's a simple 3 buttons combo with so low cd and not so much risk to use and you flood the enemy with over 10 stacks confusion torment etc. > > Then add axe and the other skills and you see why it's more sustain than power version. No direct answer except 'they just spam evades nonstop reeeeeeeeeeeee' ? Okay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"SnapzGW.3795" said: >And the clone spam is just ridiculous! just limit the mesmer to 3 clones or let the 3+clones do reduced dmg or no dmg at all. It's official, clone damage op! > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > The only problem is condi/hybrid mirage, and especially axe is disgusting, so hard and unfun to play against. > Why I have no problem against power mirages? You have no problem against power mirage because power mirage is one trick pony with awful sustain damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearless.3569 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said: > You have no chance. Condi mirage is the most brainless OP spec in the game and ranger is a free kill for them. > > Either run away like a kitten whenever you see them or reroll mesmer. That is sad to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"SnapzGW.3795" said: > >And the clone spam is just ridiculous! just limit the mesmer to 3 clones or let the 3+clones do reduced dmg or no dmg at all. > > It's official, clone damage op! That's actually a major difference between power and condi mesmer in general. Winds of Chaos from clones still inflicts conditions, clones spamming GS lazor beams can absolutely be ignored. > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > The only problem is condi/hybrid mirage, and especially axe is disgusting, so hard and unfun to play against. > > Why I have no problem against power mirages? > > You have no problem against power mirage because power mirage is one trick pony with awful sustain damage. Which is the way it should be for high damage specs. :wink: Condi has more damage possibilities than power. And while GS is usually pure offense, condi has defense on both weapon sets (axe 3, staff 2, scepter 2 and stuff). Power mesmer could need some boon rip though. Or some more ways to do sustained DPS, I agree on this. Wait, am I talking about mesmer buffs?! HANG ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > > Condi mirage is much more forgiving and easy and spammy to play, the burst is 10 times harder to dodge and on top of that even their sustain is 10 times higher. > > > Can you even explain why its 'more' forgiving and why their sustain is '10 times higher' than on power mirage? xD > > > > If they run staff the boon spam uptime is higher and axe gives more evades to chain almost nonstop. > > The visual clutter and clone spam is way higher in condi mirage than power mirage, plus the break target utilities comes in handy a lot. > > > > Against power mirage if i get killed i know why, against condi even if the enemy is noob he has good chances to win, pistol 5 plus pistol 4 plus shatter 2 it's a simple 3 buttons combo with so low cd and not so much risk to use and you flood the enemy with over 10 stacks confusion torment etc. > > > > Then add axe and the other skills and you see why it's more sustain than power version. > > No direct answer except 'they just spam evades nonstop reeeeeeeeeeeee' ? Okay... Clearly you need to go to school and learn how to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > Clearly you need to go to school and learn how to read. 'Why condi mirage have 10 times more sustain?" ; 'Because noobs use pistol 4-5 and shatter'... I dont even know where to send you because I doubt anyone can help you ... R I P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > Clearly you need to go to school and learn how to read. > 'Why condi mirage have 10 times more sustain?" ; 'Because noobs use pistol 4-5 and shatter'... > I dont even know where to send you because I doubt anyone can help you ... R I P > pistol 5 and 4 and shatter is the main combo easy burst, it has sustain due to axe which provides more evades and break target than mirage using power which doesn't have those tools, now please learn to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > Clearly you need to go to school and learn how to read. > > 'Why condi mirage have 10 times more sustain?" ; 'Because noobs use pistol 4-5 and shatter'... > > I dont even know where to send you because I doubt anyone can help you ... R I P > > > > pistol 5 and 4 and shatter is the main combo easy burst, it has sustain due to axe which provides more evades and break target than mirage using power which doesn't have those tools, now please learn to read. You unable to understand how ridiculous and stupid your claims and thats really saddening... Because axe3 have breaktargeting compared to BF thats gives condi mirage 10 times more sustain ... tf you even talking about pistol offhand and trying to connect it to 'sustain' ? Just another forum QQ kid that pretend to be smart . I wont even look at your nonsense again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Ppl still complain about power mesmer after it got nerfed without being op before? Lmao hopeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > Clearly you need to go to school and learn how to read. > > 'Why condi mirage have 10 times more sustain?" ; 'Because noobs use pistol 4-5 and shatter'... > > I dont even know where to send you because I doubt anyone can help you ... R I P > > > > pistol 5 and 4 and shatter is the main combo easy burst, it has sustain due to axe which provides more evades and break target than mirage using power which doesn't have those tools, now please learn to read. Axe has one 0.75s evade/target break which also ports directly at you, so easy to find the mesmer again especially if they shatter. I don't get the issues with axe target break, it takes barely a second or so to retarget or simply cleave/aoe given you know where the mirage is. If they use in wvw to port to an npc or some other target then that's a big burst wasted and nothing to worry about anyway. Most of the time the animation is dodgeable - or even if moving fast enough can miss entirely. Axe 2 you're a sitting duck during the animation so either encouraged to cover cast with dodge or use in situation where you don't get hit - or get hit and eat damage. This is such a vulnerable skill on its own if not for mirage cloak being able to cover cast and protect it. Axe auto requires sitting in melee range to hit - not something a mirage is going to be doing for any length of time - as they'll likely have to dodge which then causes ambush cast. So the only legit issue with axe is potentially shaving the ambush torment duration a fraction - ie down to 3s torment from 4s, given it doesn't require much effort to land and how easily spammable it is. Power/Condi/Hybrid - whatever, all have similar sustain aside from stats where say in wvw pure condi can go TB cheese (but that is really easy to counter with overloading on cleanse as there's no direct damage). In terms of active defence there's barely much difference in building for evade access or mobility, or even detarget/stealth. Some might have more of one than another, but overall if every spec went pure glass without defensive stats there wouldn't be much in it regarding survivability, and actually power would have the upper hand due to easier and faster ttk. Hybrid/condi benefit is more about having multiple/flexible options for landing damage - ie less punishing for missing burst as there are multiple follow up options, but at the same time burst is lower so more time for an opponent to react/deal with it. The issues I believe could benefit from balance are: Inspiration - overloaded sustain due to new signet trait and synergy with RI/distortion spam. Ineptitude - mindless confusion spam through blind application, should be changed. Mirage Thrust - preferably removing the clone spawn, but a number of possibilities to bring in line. Axe Ambush - as above maybe a slight torment duration shave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now