How many of you guys actually like decapping as your primary objective in pvp?

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It feels like kitten when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I do less for more on Core engineer. The most kitten complicated class in the game!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And every god kitten time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a kitten storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore.

> > > > >

> > > > > Idk what game at release you were playing but there were 3-4 builds and most were glass cannon other than D/D condi. You had D/P, You had D/D backstab chain before revealed, and S/D pistol whip chaining. None of those were super god tier of 1v1.

> > > >

> > > > Those were the builds that everyone used because youtubera showed off how cheesy they were. But never got nerfed or changed till after a lot of damage in other places.

> > > >

> > > > You still had people using sword pistol. S/d was pretty popular when combined with the old cats grace. The Ambush Trap was popular in SPvP because it allowed the thief to immediately return to a point and defend in an actual ambush, now a line of sight check prevents it from working properly. The Thieves guild was actually useful because they weren't bursted in a single second. You had people using dual bows in roaming for WvW.

> > > >

> > > > Around that time, most of thieves weapon combos were viable. With D/P coming out as a top pick just because it sacrificed some aelf preservation for utility and on demand stealth. And later when people figured out you can cancle the shadow shots follow up attack to get a shadowstep and keep your cloak.

> > >

> > > Ah yea I remember thieve's guild being good.

> >

> > I might be wrong. But didn't they also have three thieves in PvP? Till the nerf? Id agree with that being way too much when combined with the shadow assassin trap.

>

> Back at release it was 3. One had two pistols, one had a sword, and one had daggers IIRC.

 

Yeah... So I did remember correctly. That elite felt like shit to have used against you back then. Thats probably one of the few nerfs Anet did right.

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > > > > You are talking about thief as if it ever were a strong 1v1er in conquest, no it was never meant to 1v1/hold nodes in conquest since the beginning of the game. There was one time where thief could 1v1 decently but that took way too long regardless and that was 2013 prime of SD. That's over 5 years ago. And even then it was not optimal gameplay compared to decap/+1 so I have no clue what you are on about

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wrong. When the game first released thief was advertised to be a powerful PvP unit that was designed specifically for fighting in one on one fights. As well as their insane mobility. Which is why they have little in the way of aoes or self sustain. Their entire kit revolves around being damned good duelist or bugging out if it got out of hand. The players fought dirty and ambushed other players. Fights got significantly harder for thief than other specs in 2v1s. They were horrid at being zerg fighters, they had a rough time in PvE. And thats what they were. People complained about thief being too strong. But they never understood that thieves were walking on landmines to do what they do. They couldn't last in prolonged fights very well, they don't have the sustain to not rush the fight, they have the smallest hp pool in the game. And their defense is suck or save. You screw up once and you died. Then came the nerfs... And nerfs... And nerfs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I stopped SPvPing all together earlier this year. I got sick of decapping and +1s and seeing that other classes do the few things Im supposed to be good at better.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It feels like kitten when I have to put in far more effort and skill, to do something someone else does in a button press.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do less for more on Core engineer. The most kitten complicated class in the game!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And every god kitten time we complain about this or dont be a team player, we're called "toxic thief" mains. We just want to be in a state that is actually fair for us and the opponent Theres so little on this class that rewards you now for wiggling your way through a kitten storm of aoe and aegis. The rewards for interrupting and punishing is nearly gone. We have limits hard set on us, and then more limits piled onto that, when its pretty much no longer justified. It just genuinely feels like you got bent without a reach around these days.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Its nice you're placing concern for the thiefs opponents, but when does this become a two way interaction in The thought process?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > At what point, is anet going to look at Thiefs thiefs historical patch notes. The nerfs, the buffs, everything. Then look at the design docs that defined what thief is... And then the current state of the game... And say "This is a clown fiesta."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No one can seriously tell me that PvP for thief is genuinely fun. That its more than a chore.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Idk what game at release you were playing but there were 3-4 builds and most were glass cannon other than D/D condi. You had D/P, You had D/D backstab chain before revealed, and S/D pistol whip chaining. None of those were super god tier of 1v1.

> > > > >

> > > > > Those were the builds that everyone used because youtubera showed off how cheesy they were. But never got nerfed or changed till after a lot of damage in other places.

> > > > >

> > > > > You still had people using sword pistol. S/d was pretty popular when combined with the old cats grace. The Ambush Trap was popular in SPvP because it allowed the thief to immediately return to a point and defend in an actual ambush, now a line of sight check prevents it from working properly. The Thieves guild was actually useful because they weren't bursted in a single second. You had people using dual bows in roaming for WvW.

> > > > >

> > > > > Around that time, most of thieves weapon combos were viable. With D/P coming out as a top pick just because it sacrificed some aelf preservation for utility and on demand stealth. And later when people figured out you can cancle the shadow shots follow up attack to get a shadowstep and keep your cloak.

> > > >

> > > > Ah yea I remember thieve's guild being good.

> > >

> > > I might be wrong. But didn't they also have three thieves in PvP? Till the nerf? Id agree with that being way too much when combined with the shadow assassin trap.

> >

> > Back at release it was 3. One had two pistols, one had a sword, and one had daggers IIRC.

>

> Yeah... So I did remember correctly. That elite felt like kitten to have used against you back then. Thats probably one of the few nerfs Anet did right.

 

Yea it was amazing to use and you pretty much just laid there and died if it got used against you. Especially with the built in scorpion wire that worked.

[MetalAssault.7906]

I hate it, one of the main reasons I stopped playing Thief.

[bluri.2653]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

>

> > If I had to choose 1 person who is super knowledgeable on thief its bluri aka sindrener who is arguably the best thief to touch the game.

>

> Why do you think sinderener is that good? I checked his videos and there really isnt anything perticular on his gameplay that could put him on the post such as best thief to touch the game. he only runs power build and majority of ppl he deals with are really not that good imo he gets the results because of the matches he goes into and thanks to some knowledge of his class

> yuo can even hear how he smashes the buttons durring the games he records that is not how i would imagine a real pro thief to play

 

L O L. This must be the best ive ever seen thanks for the popcorns.

 

"Smashes buttons during the games"

"Only runs power builds"

"People he deals with are really not that good"

 

I mean I can't help to laugh but, I play versus what the community has to offer, If I'm one of the highest rated players and only play versus bad players how on earth will I ever find good players then? I win AT's, mAT's I used to compete in all ESL emore or less and LAN's so I played versus the top but all of them are bad in your opinion? I don't even want to know what kind of super players you play versus they must be something special!

 

And I mean, reading your comments can pretty much tell how lost you must be in this game

I have to highlight this

**"Not to mention i run Trapper*but i am talking Condi thief in general here.

Many ppl say it is dead so i wanna see how many of you think otherwise and still stick to it"**

 

Incredible. My guess is you are around gold and think you fight good players

 

 

@Torq: I have never made fun of their rank, I ask them what rating they are to see how large the difference can be.

 

Example: I'm rank1 1900~ rating and can get someone from Plat 1 1500~ rating(some cases it's even possible to get even lower) which is just there to showcase how dead this game is in PvP. And impossible to ever balance the matchmaking since there is such a low playerbase

 

 

 

 

[Derenaya.3479]

Since there was no option for my thoughts I didn‘t vote in the pool but I don‘t mind decaping actually. I just like the gameplay of thief (S/D that is) and off all the professions I tested thief is the only one I like (well Shiro revenant wasn‘t bad but I really disliked his heal). I mean it makes sense for us to decap since we have such a fast/high mobility but I just wished we could do more than just 2v1...

 

So Tl;Dr: I don‘t mind decaping but I wished we would be able to 1v1 better and not just fight outnumbered fights.

 

Edit. And LOL at people that call Sindrener bad.

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

 

Dear god it is the god himself talking to filsy pesant

why dont you come down to pvp and show off a bit hmm?

i dare you

I dont care how many times i would die fighting you one of them times you'd be dead nailed to the floor by as you say Gold not among good players condi trapper

oh and btw dont forget the fact i saw how you play you dont know how i play

actually a lot of ppl here saw how you play. we can do our check up there is nothing that fantastic about it

blink in poke blink out that is all that S/d can do

a condi build i run can stand the point and fight back unlike your +1-ing

You thieves thing you cant 1v1 well yes atm you cant cuz you run either glass canons or crap that blinks in and out or is stealthed all the time not focusing on you doing dps which thief was always made for

And just cuz you got YT channel and Twater chanel and what not it doesnt mean you are good

Have a popcorn and a buttplug you can use both

[Phoenix the One.4071]

Okay had a few runs with friends trying to play the way it is dictated by the meta, and I actually liked it.

Not the decapping itself, but the result in forcing the team to make a choice, and be that +1 who could turn the tide.

I felt like I contributed more than going head on on the opponent, and do to my mobility I could easily assist where I was needed.

It felt a bit like a support role in some way, and still like a spy/assassin in another way.

 

Did I occassionly had to 1v1, yes, and then I could still hold my own, or wait for an escape, especially when the opponent got reinforcement.

 

My friends mostly camped mid, and help recapturing close, but I felt my gameplay in the end was more rewarding and engaging as thief.

 

Ohh and seems like many of you runs with venom here.

We are all thief-mains? We are all on the same team right?

Anyway despite the misunderstandings, missing references, cognitive biases, confirmatin biases and myth, I am still glad that I saw this thread.

I feel like doing the “meta” and decap, instead of full cap and being the plus one instead of seeking 1v1, I contribute more to my team. And winning or even losing, while contribute is fun for me:) sothanks for the solid advices through out the posts, I might also try watching some videos, eventhough it can be hard to tell what is gong on... I mean just look at Cellofrag as elementalist.. I understand what he is doing, but getting to his lvl.. uff.

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

>

> Dear god it is the god himself talking to filsy pesant

> why dont you come down to pvp and show off a bit hmm?

> i dare you

> I dont care how many times i would die fighting you one of them times you'd be dead nailed to the floor by as you say Gold not among good players condi trapper

> oh and btw dont forget the fact i saw how you play you dont know how i play

> actually a lot of ppl here saw how you play. we can do our check up there is nothing that fantastic about it

> blink in poke blink out that is all that S/d can do

> a condi build i run can stand the point and fight back unlike your +1-ing

> You thieves thing you cant 1v1 well yes atm you cant cuz you run either glass canons or kitten that blinks in and out or is stealthed all the time not focusing on you doing dps which thief was always made for

> And just cuz you got YT channel and Twater chanel and what not it doesnt mean you are good

> Have a popcorn and a buttplug you can use both

 

That is literally what S/D is best at. You are trying to force a point for sake of argument. But there is a difference between playing smart and to your strengths vs playing to try and prove a thief can somewhat 1v1 but not really.

 

Take a moment and sit back and think was is most effective? Jumping in and out of combat from behind terrain that breaks LoS so you can disengage without worry and consistently doing damage. Or trying to 1v1 and getting ripped by anything your opponent drops on point.

 

S/D doesn't have quick free access to stealth like DE, or D/P so it relies on hopping in and out of combat to not die immediately trying to fight on top of a point which is probably loaded with AoE fields.

 

Condi clear is so quick and fast in this game your opponent probably clears anything you put on them within seconds which leaves you without initiative or any endurance if you are also running DD spam dodge for condis.

[saerni.2584]

I think Condi Thief has to play a bit hybrid these days to be successful. You can’t rely on pure condi because the cleanse and or immunity durations will nullify your pressure.

 

Edit:

 

I also think that if pure condi vaporizes the opponent in 3-5 seconds they aren’t a good metric. You have to assume a good player will cleanse after 1-2 seconds. Unless you catch a player with no cooldowns the cleanse access in the game is high enough to hard counter anything but the most absurd condition reapplication rates.

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> I think Condi Thief has to play a bit hybrid these days to be successful. You can’t rely on pure condi because the cleanse and or immunity durations will nullify your pressure.

>

> Edit:

>

> I also think that if pure condi vaporizes the opponent in 3-5 seconds they aren’t a good metric. You have to assume a good player will cleanse after 1-2 seconds. Unless you catch a player with no cooldowns the cleanse access in the game is high enough to hard counter anything but the most absurd condition reapplication rates.

 

This

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

 

> Condi clear is so quick and fast in this game your opponent probably clears anything you put on them within seconds which leaves you without initiative or any endurance if you are also running DD spam dodge for condis.

 

I am running DD but i am not spaming for Conditions I am dealing my dmg through Traps as i said before - I am Trapper

each trap = 6,5 poison 4,5 and imob + sb 4 choking field and autoattack from within field giving poison if in field

i got Two traps and i am also runing either Impairing daggers or distracting daggers = either another 6,5 poison + slow and imob which grants me dmg advantage through exp, weakness if i am running Distracting daggers i simply have 3 more interupts whichi timed good can be basically interrupt ever 6 seconds

i especially love when i see another class raise hands = flip D dagger and he be like dayumn i didnt heal myself and i got tornemnt on my ass for 1,4k if i stand 3,3 if i move

on small point where we ''have'' to fight i got the advantage since i can run around it interupt foe and simply leave him step on the ground.

if it gets grim i swap to d/d to finish off but even then i do not spam just one 3 one 2 and then again backing off to place trap or interrupt

i know what i am talking about guys i play it for over a year and something i made my rotation and the recent changes didnt change almost anything for me except for LA nerf

so...

 

Also EDIT:

Choking field + autoattack from a distance is the single best +1 i can imagine you drop the field under everyones feeet and simply autattack them if you want you can use Cluster bomb now and detonate it on place since it got buffed and is actually useful now.

 

[omgdracula.6345]

So you run a build that effectively just stacks poison? That will get cleared in a matter of seconds?

 

K

[Isle of Stars.3049]

If you are going to run condi build with a maximum of three damaging conditions only to duel Sind's S/D, chances are he will only clear them with Sword 2 alone.

[bluri.2653]

???? this guy is playing traps and thinks ill walk into them

[Zerthi.5493]

Problem with Thief is that. Devs make proffesion which require (except DE) tons of precision from player, and because of that there is only one commonly accepted role and (playable role for most ppl) for them (Thieves) which is decapping. I really joy playing as Thief, DD is feir enough but DE is boring. I joy +1 decapping, and nuking 1(me)v1+. It isnt problem at all. To be fair Decapping is more enjoyable then playing as healer or tank in any other game and actually protect You from boosting urself verywell (If You dont understand - reroll proffesion) :p

Just - Git Gut and nerf Thieves xD

 

Seriously, Thives req different playstyle and YOU MUST FIT to it, not class (like other) to You ;)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

>

> > Condi clear is so quick and fast in this game your opponent probably clears anything you put on them within seconds which leaves you without initiative or any endurance if you are also running DD spam dodge for condis.

>

> I am running DD but i am not spaming for Conditions I am dealing my dmg through Traps as i said before - I am Trapper

> each trap = 6,5 poison 4,5 and imob + sb 4 choking field and autoattack from within field giving poison if in field

> i got Two traps and i am also runing either Impairing daggers or distracting daggers = either another 6,5 poison + slow and imob which grants me dmg advantage through exp, weakness if i am running Distracting daggers i simply have 3 more interupts whichi timed good can be basically interrupt ever 6 seconds

> i especially love when i see another class raise hands = flip D dagger and he be like dayumn i didnt heal myself and i got tornemnt on my kitten for 1,4k if i stand 3,3 if i move

> on small point where we ''have'' to fight i got the advantage since i can run around it interupt foe and simply leave him step on the ground.

> if it gets grim i swap to d/d to finish off but even then i do not spam just one 3 one 2 and then again backing off to place trap or interrupt

> i know what i am talking about guys i play it for over a year and something i made my rotation and the recent changes didnt change almost anything for me except for LA nerf

> so...

>

> Also EDIT:

> Choking field + autoattack from a distance is the single best +1 i can imagine you drop the field under everyones feeet and simply autattack them if you want you can use Cluster bomb now and detonate it on place since it got buffed and is actually useful now.

>

 

Man U say u watch sindrener’s vids and think a trapper’s build is gonna stack up? U hoping he’s just gonna stroll thru them? Lol. The guys does far more than poke and reset, thief requires good positioning which I’m sure ur aware of,isn’t that the point of the quick resets? Thief is a class that requires not only knowledge of the class but a good knowledge of the class ur fighting,sind has both. U don’t get the rep he has these days where people wanna tear u down more than lift u up(u seem like this guy) without playing at a high level of skill on a constant basis.ontop he takes the time to stream vids and has no problems gives tips to help thieves perform better so u ranting and throwing insults at the guy just discredits all the shit u say.plus who the fuck cares if he presses his buttons hard?what kinda shit is that? Lol and who are u again?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> ???? this guy is playing traps and thinks ill walk into them

 

Hey man any chance u get time throw some more vids on the ol utube channel,if ur still playing that is,don’t blame u if ur not. Thanks for the content etc.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

And jack before u blast me I’m nobody and will tell u straight up I suck even tho been playing a number of yrs:)

[bluri.2653]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > ???? this guy is playing traps and thinks ill walk into them

>

> Hey man any chance u get time throw some more vids on the ol utube channel,if ur still playing that is,don’t blame u if ur not. Thanks for the content etc.

 

done i exported like 5 streams it will be up in a few hours

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Haha saweeeet

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > ???? this guy is playing traps and thinks ill walk into them

> >

> > Hey man any chance u get time throw some more vids on the ol utube channel,if ur still playing that is,don’t blame u if ur not. Thanks for the content etc.

>

> done i exported like 5 streams it will be up in a few hours

 

Was wondering this one day watchin a stream,ur from Sweden right? Do u ever listen to tunes from bands like Klamath,before the dawn etc? I live in a small town in Canada and seems like no one knows em lol anyway just wondered if Swedish Melo death bands did well there.

[bluri.2653]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > ???? this guy is playing traps and thinks ill walk into them

> > >

> > > Hey man any chance u get time throw some more vids on the ol utube channel,if ur still playing that is,don’t blame u if ur not. Thanks for the content etc.

> >

> > done i exported like 5 streams it will be up in a few hours

>

> Was wondering this one day watchin a stream,ur from Sweden right? Do u ever listen to tunes from bands like Klamath,before the dawn etc? I live in a small town in Canada and seems like no one knows em lol anyway just wondered if Swedish Melo death bands did well there.

 

Yes im Swedish, and no i don't listen to any of them:)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > > > ???? this guy is playing traps and thinks ill walk into them

> > > >

> > > > Hey man any chance u get time throw some more vids on the ol utube channel,if ur still playing that is,don’t blame u if ur not. Thanks for the content etc.

> > >

> > > done i exported like 5 streams it will be up in a few hours

> >

> > Was wondering this one day watchin a stream,ur from Sweden right? Do u ever listen to tunes from bands like Klamath,before the dawn etc? I live in a small town in Canada and seems like no one knows em lol anyway just wondered if Swedish Melo death bands did well there.

>

> Yes im Swedish, and no i don't listen to any of them:)

 

Haha fair enough!

[omgdracula.6345]

Sind and Vallun are the best two thieves in the game as far as content goes. Vallun has awesome guides and Sind is always more than happy to go over vids that you send over for critiquing and overall advice.

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> And jack before u blast me I’m nobody and will tell u straight up I suck even tho been playing a number of yrs:)

 

I frankly dont care enough to blast on you or something. I am nobody as well. But the thing is just because someone gets famous by dropping YT vids doesnt mean they are THE BEST thief ever. There might be THE best thief out there not posting vids ever in his life and you simply dont know about him. Lets say it like this. Sind and Vallun are the best thieves you know about. Also playing power thief these days is like riding a motorcycle. Playing condi is like riding bicycle. If you get to hill such as lets say someone with tons of condi cleanses or stuns. Motorcycle will get you over it easily cuz it has the powerful engine which will push you through. Bicycle tho will require that you work hard with your legs to push yourself up the hill. And that is the exact same way it works in pvp as far as thief goes. I wont admire someone who plays power because i know those are either one shot gimicks or blink and hide flies. So if there is some The best thief we dont know about, he plays condi not power because he is The best and can afford playing condi cuz his skill allows him to play whatever the hell he wants because he is the best. that is what i have to say to this