Simple balance change: Increase the minimum health pool

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> I encourage you to try and play a p/p thief employing the tactic of landing at least 3 full unloads back to back in a ranked PvP environment.

> Come back after you've played 50 matches and tell us all about your experience.

 

no u

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > I encourage you to try and play a p/p thief employing the tactic of landing at least 3 full unloads back to back in a ranked PvP environment.

> > Come back after you've played 50 matches and tell us all about your experience.

>

> no u

 

I've tried to go p/p for, like, three matches maybe? Then I quickly rerolled d/d because dual pistols are (ahem) bad for your health.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Standardize health pool is simply generalizing the problem though. Certain classes/builds have more active defenses (blind/block/evade) rather than relying on soaking damage, and different classes to different degrees as well. Compare mesmer/thief to ranger/guardian then to say necro/ele, even within class like FA or sword/dagger weaver. Sure you can open up more amulet and build choices initially, but it also pushes newer extremes and subsequently punishes those that have less active defenses. Ultimately people would just pick more damaging amulet to be competitive and you're back to square one with "amulet diversity".

 

Since we're on topic of guard let's take radiant hammer/core guard for example, it is already quite common in mid tier with valkyrie amulet since its retaliation traits bump its precision up to 50%, those running marauder/zerker already runs at the risk of being one shot but if their health increases significantly they can achieve much easier one-shot reward with less risks. Then you see many more Arken-like gameplay from players who clearly don't spend as much effort as him. In the end ANet has to balance it out by completely nerf the retaliation traits to oblivion. Most likely overhauling other classes' active defenses in the process as well as attempting to buff those that have less active defenses.

 

The issue becomes too complex to just standardize HP. There is no simple solution to class balance.

[MyPuppy.8970]

You also have profs with high Armor/HP with lots of active defenses (and passives), high boon uptime, that also deal good damage. Main issue is class balance when some spec to do their job efficiently, other spec to survive first.

[gw niko.1049]

This won´t solve anything.

 

I realize there is alot of dmg in the game. But there is too much healing too.

People complained about powercreep in the past, then they gave it more healing.

One time it was consideret too sustain, so they gave it more dmg, then it was too much dmg, so they gave it more heal, and the same

about condis and that´s why it is such a spamm today.

The problems with the combat are not as selected as you think they are.

 

Overall the game is too spammy in many ways, what makes it very forgiving and not competetiv or skillfull.

Just adding more life will probably make it worse.

 

Also there are Discusions here in the PvP-Forum about how some selected abilitys or traits that are consideret OP should be nerved. But this is not the problem eighter.

The problem is not about single traits or abilitys or selected things like the healthpool.

The problem is structural and it is the same problem that evolved for some years now actually.

 

It´s about the hybrit-meta and over all spamm of everything basically but formost the spamm of healing and dodges.

It probalby kind of happened like I wrote it above. Anet never figured out the real problem and always came up with the easiest

solution. Like. Too much heal, we need more dmg. Too much of this, more of this.

 

What you are suggesting is exacly that, but won´t solve the problems.

 

I just posted a own Discusion about this problems.

Watch it out.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57860/the-fundamental-problem-in-pvp-combat?

[incisorr.9502]

its the damage thats way too high. Even if you play a necro with perma protection with 25k hp you can still die in no time cus of how much dmg things do, especially power builds to which it cant be reacted like condition ones where you can cleanse before you take the damage

 

altho i do agree that the health system sucks cause right now half of the amulets arent usable on half of the classes (ele,thief,guard) cus playing pvp with less than 18k hp is a joke. Yes the meta holo build with 16k hp is also a joke, but people don't know how to play the game so it gets away with it cus apparently having a 3 sec block and a 3 sec invulnerability is enough to make everyone not want to hit you (when that shouldnt be the case considering you die by 2 skills from anyone)

 

 

[Zunki.3916]

I'd take that extra 1k health any day. I'm not sure if dps in PvE is really balanced around those health pools/armor levels when it clearly should be.

[otto.5684]

> @"Zunki.3916" said:

> I'd take that extra 1k health any day. I'm not sure if dps in PvE is really balanced around those health pools/armor levels when it clearly should be.

 

I do not think it is. Out of meta group PvE dps builds probably ranger, guardian and rev are the most survivable. Neither of them is high HP pools. And the reason is self existing sustain in these dps builds. Man, guardian heal Litany of Wrath, under 100% quickness, retaliation & 25 might, with full berserker, can heal somewhere between 30-50K HP over its 6 sec duration, especially if you hit more than one enemy. It is 25% of damage dealt.

 

However, I think that is beside the point in PvE. In sPvP the HP pool is clearly a diversity bottleneck. Sustain works differently in sPvP, cuz targets, are not immobile dumb dumbs. The equivalent core guardian dps build with LoW can barely get 8-10K in the equivalent ordeal.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Zunki.3916" said:

> > I'd take that extra 1k health any day. I'm not sure if dps in PvE is really balanced around those health pools/armor levels when it clearly should be.

>

> I do not think it is. Out of meta group PvE dps builds probably ranger, guardian and rev are the most survivable. Neither of them is high HP pools. And the reason is self existing sustain in these dps builds. Man, guardian heal Litany of Wrath, under 100% quickness, retaliation & 25 might, with full berserker, can heal somewhere between 30-50K HP over its 6 sec duration, especially if you hit more than one enemy. It is 25% of damage dealt.

>

> However, I think that is beside the point in PvE. In sPvP the HP pool is clearly a diversity bottleneck. Sustain works differently in sPvP, cuz targets, are not immobile dumb dumbs. The equivalent core guardian dps build with LoW can barely get 8-10K in the equivalent ordeal.

 

This is exactly why I posted this in the pvp forum rather than the general discussion. This balance change would mainly affect pvp and maybe wvw to an extent as it would allow minimum health pool classes more diversity of builds. In pve/raids, no one would complain about getting 1k more hp but honestly it wouldn't change anything.

[snowflake.9037]

It would help eles but it would be a massive buff for thieves and guardians, both of which don't really need it.

 

There just needs to be a poll asking if ele should be mid health pool, and if mesmers would be okay with getting the lowest hp pool if they could undo most of the nerfs mirage received.

[Turk.5460]

> @"snowflake.9037" said:

> It would help eles but it would be a massive buff for thieves and guardians, both of which don't really need it.

>

> There just needs to be a poll asking if ele should be mid health pool, and if mesmers would be okay with getting the lowest hp pool if they could undo most of the nerfs mirage received.

 

Thieves and Daredevils absolutely need it. Dragonhunter could use it as well.They can adjust core Guardian, Firebrand, and DE in other ways to accomodate.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"snowflake.9037" said:

> > It would help eles but it would be a massive buff for thieves and guardians, both of which don't really need it.

> >

> > There just needs to be a poll asking if ele should be mid health pool, and if mesmers would be okay with getting the lowest hp pool if they could undo most of the nerfs mirage received.

>

> Thieves and Daredevils absolutely need it.

 

Playing exclusively daredevil this season, I disagree.