Can I grant stab to Phantasms? (Phantasms discussion)

[Noodle Ant.1605]

I’ve been playing power chrono for PvE over while now and I’ve noticed a number of things.

 

This gameplay shares similar principles to staff ele variants and DH in that you want to stack as much DoT (usually AoE) skills as you can to achieve max dps (the pchrono opener includes 11 individual phant casts, 22 phants in total). However, phantasms are a mes-specific mechanic that are unique to other conventional skills in a number of ways. These features appear to exist for PvP (WvW included) purposes, and affects PvE in some possibly unintended ways:

 

1. Phantasms can be targeted and be subsequently killed. This makes sense in a lot of ways, especially in PvP or when you use phants to distract instead of clones, but it takes away the damage component in a trash mob heavy environment. All player summoned minions have 95% dmg and Condi duration reduction from AoEs in PvE (cleaves not sure), which most bosses use but trash mobs tend to have single target skills which my phants tend to involuntarily bodyblock (dies in two hits).

2. Phantasms can be interrupted. For PvP, this adds an additional layer of counterplay as either the mes or the phantasm can be interrupted. The interrupted phant will proceed to become a clone. However, for PvE, the enemy can sometimes telegraph an AoE CC that you can avoid, but your iWardens or iWhatever can’t because of their long cast time. It’s hard to apply stab to them as well. This isn’t particularly a nice thought for the 1s cast time phants (the most spammed ones) where you run some demanding risks by being able to have your dmg interrupted twice.

3. Blinds. Again logical in PvP. Your phant fails to cast when you are blinded resulting in no boons (if any) no dmg, no boons or dmg again (if chronophantasma) and then no clone. Put on full CD. Think about the 1s casts. (At least phants can’t get blinded very easily in PvE or the double risk thing would apply again.)

4. *Out of range* fail cast (target moves out of range at last second). Same as above. Makes sense if target goes behind a wall, however.

5. Invuln. Logical in PvP. Same as above. This really sucks when autotarget decides to target the boss in phase when you want to kill the trash at their feet. Also destroys phants that are yet to do their second cast and their corresponding clone if running Chronophantasma. You are still allowed to summon clones on invuln for some reason.

 

In comparison to many other skills:

- {Lava font/Blades of Procession/Maul/etc.} cannot be destroyed

- {...} cannot be interrupted by hitting anything but the caster

- {...} is still (mostly) ‘cast’ when blind

- {...} is still (mostly) ‘cast’ when target goes out of range

- {...} can be cast when target is invuln

- Exceptions made for points 1 & 2 for skill types such as turrets, minions, etc. However, these skills are not always on skillbar.

- Many skills will be ‘mostly’ casted, but phantasms will completely fail to appear at all.

 

Finally, what really keeps me up is phants and their interaction with % mods. According to wiki they are completely unaffected, but that would mean fractal offensive pots would mean zilch which I swear they’re not. Also temporary mechanics that increase dmg by some amount (sometimes up to +200% (enrage?)). Which % mods affects phants and why/why not?

 

Additionally I’ve noticed that phants don’t count to your attacks at all, but I understand some consequences if they did (signet of agony procs, lost time build, subject 6 shield, etc).

 

What do you also know/think about phantasms?

 

Edit: to make post clearer -

- Changed title in case it triggered certain people (was originally ‘Phantasms vs Lava Font...’)

- This is not a buff/nerf thread, but a thread pointing out random things about phantasms, good or bad, intentional or unintentional.

- I would like to know what people think of phantasms and interactions within the game (does this sound reasonable? etc.)

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Lava Font is actually different in a way to phantasms, Lava font is a small AoE damage and you can simply move away from it, It's also a Staff skill so any elementalist using staff in PvP is easy to kill as for Phantasms, they add to the visual clutter of mesmer

[snowflake.9037]

I wish I could just walk a little to the left to avoid a phantasm damage entirely.

 

Isn't LF nerfed already? Why not use a better example? Mesmers are one of the most oppressive classes in pvp and a mandatory pick since the game's inception in pve.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I’m saying that these unique features/limitations to phantasms makes them interesting in PvP (so keep them, sure), but are randomly affecting PvE in the most random ways.

 

I’m aware LF is a ground target skill but then it’s hard for me to find a another whole entire skill type that always asks for a target. PvE wise, they work in almost the same way, where it’s fire and forget. You can’t completely ‘forget’ phantasms as they are affected by things in the initial post.

> @"snowflake.9037" said:

> I wish I could just walk a little to the left to avoid a phantasm damage entirely.

>

Anything can unintentionally avoid iSwordsman in the same way they can walk out of lava font. Yes, other phants are harder to avoid, and I believe they shouldn’t spawn if you dodge, since for some phantasms it’s a 1s cast of inevitability unless you cc, blind or invuln. However, coming from PvE, you have to remember that the enemy ai in PvE is usually too stupid to avoid lava font, its limitations can be completely ignored because all ticks will hit.

> Isn't LF nerfed already? Why not use a better example? Mesmers are one of the most oppressive classes in pvp and a mandatory pick since the game's inception in pve.

 

LF still remains a portion of the lifeblood of the dps a staff ele, similar to phants with phantasm mesmer. Also I don’t think you’d automatically go pick a pChrono over any other dps class (talking about end tier PvE here). Support chrono only really needs to get its first phantasm cast off, after that they’re all just random extra dps increases... pChrono is heavily reliant on these working in the 0 external factors ‘golem conditions’ in order to compete properly with other dps picks.

 

This is just sharing what I think.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:

 

> LF still remains a portion of the lifeblood of the dps a staff ele, similar to phants with phantasm mesmer. Also I don’t think you’d automatically go pick a pChrono over any other dps class (talking about end tier PvE here). Support chrono only really needs to get its first phantasm cast off, after that they’re all just random extra dps increases... pChrono is heavily reliant on these working in the 0 external factors ‘golem conditions’ in order to compete properly with other dps picks.

>

> This is just sharing what I think.

 

Staff Ele is pretty dead to be honest in PvE the only exception is if you have no Holosmith's in your group then Staff ele would be okay to bring

[Noodle Ant.1605]

Made an edit to the original post since I had no intention discussing specifically lava font or ele.

>Edit: to make post clearer -

> - Changed title in case it triggered certain people (was originally ‘Phantasms vs Lava Font...’)

> - This is not a buff/nerf thread, but a thread pointing out random things about phantasms, good or bad, intentional or unintentional.

> - I would like to know what people think of phantasms and interactions within the game (does this sound reasonable? etc.)

Additionally:

- iWarden and iDisenchanter’s projectiles can target and get absorbed by invulnerable targets (even if other targets are available)

- Ranged phantasms have some ability to spawn anywhere near the target (including behind). Could be what makes them harder to avoid.

- Phantasms turn into down state clones if you’re currently in downstate (and can probably be separately stomped)

- iRogue (down #3) is particularly useful when running Chronophantasma since both the heavy dmg and the 25% CD reduction happens twice

 

Try looking each property mentioned for all game modes PvE, WvW and PvP. It may be that one feature may affect another in some manner (can be either good or bad).

 

Report other bizarre/random phantasm features here :smile: