LetoII.3782 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Timing as in you wait for somebody else to have already made the clutch play, or as in baddies didn't see you coming from the side? If you're fighting bad players you shouldn't need a bubble in the first place, if you're fighting competent players and you come in sideways, you'd better have stances up... Because death waits at 900 range for the first couple infiltrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > The monkey push with stances thing isn't the pro approach but it can still work because stances are still kinda crazy. the pro approach is chain veil in drop bubbles right on their face so they're dead before they even know what's up. > > Top end gameplay discussion feels out of place here > When we talk about Www application in average it's the allah-hu-ahkbar warrior running in to bubble and trading it's life to do so... And how weird it is that the warriors themselves would want this as their role. <,< I think they're either being intellectually dishonest and acting like they don't know how the skill is actually used by the better organized groups or they're genuinely clueless about how this skill is being used because they don't play with or against a good organized group. I mean there's a lot of people who are still currently complaining on these forums about "pirate shipping" when the only good NA guild I've played against that's full committed to range bombs and only range bombs and actually making it work is Kek and they still use bubble bombs with grav wells and pulls. Literally every other decent guild I've played against has been melee heavy chain veiling bubble bombers. Nothing has changed since the nerf either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko.4158 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 veiling bubbles isn't exactly pro play its just strategy. also makes a noob a bubble bomber. its all in the timings and angles. there's alot of issues with veil and stealth....... separate issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > veiling bubbles isn't exactly pro play its just strategy. > also makes a noob a bubble bomber. > its all in the timings and angles. > > there's alot of issues with veil and stealth....... > separate issue. Whether you consider it pro or not is irrelevant the point is that spellbreakers don't have to pop every defensive CD and charge into the enemy by themselves just to get a good winds off like so many have tried to claim in defense of WoD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko.4158 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 same is true for everything if you co-ordinate veil. or portal. or jump down. however any of these with bubble is wrong, the cast time means its not on impact. most of the time its not even on the zerg which has moved round. you have to get in front. most of the bulid is stab/stab related you wouldn't do an individual sb veil, even if you did its to not going to last to make any sort of impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > But anything less than 1 sec cast for this is broken > > > > Or maybe not? In order to successfully place WoD, warrior has to use stances so they don't get obliterated/interrupted immediately. > > So maybe if the skill is left on longer CD (90 sec), the cast time could be reduced to 3/4 or 1/2 second. > > In the end, it doesn't matter for enemy team, the bubble will pop up anyway, it's just nice balance change for warrior. > > Having to use a few utilities to run headlong into 60+ players who see you coming ...You do know most classes couldn't do that even if they dropped _everything_ on the approach? > > We've given an unstoppable (for long enough to deliver WoD) class a skill that must be avoided by everyone. I'm not even sure how a cast time affects this skill negatively as they're immune to everything during the approach. Just hit the button a second earlier. So basically, use all your stances only to use elite skill and then be easy kill for 40/60 seconds... I am not saying that pre-nerf WoD was balanced, but if you wanted to actually successfully place WoD on proper spot, you had to sacrifice something. I also saw some spellbreakers suiciding just to place WoD which was very sad... The cast time has its QoL aspect, both in PvE and WvW. Now with the nerfed disenchantment application and more time given to react, I don't see much issue with reducing cast time. You won't go into/in front of enemy zerg to place WoD without using stances anyway, not even with instant cast time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkz.7045 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > The monkey push with stances thing isn't the pro approach but it can still work because stances are still kinda crazy. the pro approach is chain veil in drop bubbles right on their face so they're dead before they even know what's up. > > Top end gameplay discussion feels out of place here The phrase 'top end gameplay' is out of place in WvW fullstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > same is true for everything if you co-ordinate veil. > or portal. > or jump down. > however any of these with bubble is wrong, the cast time means its not on impact. > most of the time its not even on the zerg which has moved round. > > you have to get in front. most of the bulid is stab/stab related > you wouldn't do an individual sb veil, even if you did its to not going to last to make any sort of impact. Those are guild l2p issues imo anything can go wrong where team coordination is involved. You should not have to blow a bunch of stances and/or overextend yourself to get a good bubbled bomb off with your guild even after the nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko.4158 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 its quite clear you dont play sb. first its your server , now its the guild and l2p. this about why the nerf is over the top. whose next santa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 It's very clear they don't play sb, probably just don't even like warrior's in general and don't get what the nerf to WoD means. We now have to predict what a zerg is going to do because it's now 2.5 seconds until it's even effective, allot can happen in those 2.5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > its quite clear you dont play sb. > first its your server , now its the guild and l2p. > this about why the nerf is over the top. > whose next santa? You are clearly very biased because you main SB and it doesn't seem to me like you can look at this issue with anything approaching objectivity. I don't main it but I've played it a fair bit and imo WoD was broken af pre nerfs and I think it's still incredibly powerful even after all the nerfs. The skill has just been so impactful since PoF release that it was actually worth the risk to just run in ahead of everyone else and get the skill off no matter what even if it meant dying. That's how broken WoD was. There is no other skill in this game that's so powerful that it's actually worth yoloing into people in a zerg fight just to use that one skill before dying or running away with no CDs left and there is no other class in the game that can actually have a chance of surviving while playing that way. You may actually have to learn how to coordinate your skill usage and positioning with your guild now but I promise you that both are entirely doable and that bubble bombs still work great when executed properly, they just take a bit more teamwork now because the window for their effective use is smaller than it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > We now have to predict what a zerg is going to do because it's now 2.5 seconds until it's even effective, allot can happen in those 2.5 seconds. You just need to call it out now it's just like everything else. If you wait for the call out and then count it down it will help everyone else to know when and where to drop their ccs and damage and if the enemy moves you cancel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > We now have to predict what a zerg is going to do because it's now 2.5 seconds until it's even effective, allot can happen in those 2.5 seconds. > > You just need to call it out now it's just like everything else. If you wait for the call out and then count it down it will help everyone else to know when and where to drop their ccs and damage and if the enemy moves you cancel it. It's 1.5 seconds to cast...they still have an entire second to react...allot can still happen even after it's cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > We now have to predict what a zerg is going to do because it's now 2.5 seconds until it's even effective, allot can happen in those 2.5 seconds. > > > > You just need to call it out now it's just like everything else. If you wait for the call out and then count it down it will help everyone else to know when and where to drop their ccs and damage and if the enemy moves you cancel it. > > It's 1.5 seconds to cast...they still have an entire second to react...allot can still happen even after it's cast. you don't seem to understand that organized group will stealth their warrior as Israel said. Anet should reduce cast time but the WoD's nerf wasn't over the top. It could be nerfed even more and still be used because it's a unique mechanic which allow scourge/rev/weaver to be so efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > I mean there's a lot of people who are still currently complaining on these forums about "pirate shipping" when the only good NA guild I've played against that's full committed to range bombs and only range bombs and actually making it work is Kek and they still use bubble bombs with grav wells and pulls. Literally every other decent guild I've played against has been melee heavy chain veiling bubble bombers. Nothing has changed since the nerf either. They can go melee because they chain WoD, otherwise they would pirate ship. If you have two opponents with same level, they will play mind games at range for so long that you get bored until one of the two can take advantage of a good bubble on top of enemy even if nerfs have made meta more melee than it used to be on PoF release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Acyk.9671" said: > They can go melee because they chain WoD, otherwise they would pirate ship. If you have two opponents with same level, they will play mind games at range for so long that you get bored until one of the two can take advantage of a good bubble on top of enemy even if nerfs have made meta more melee than it used to be on PoF release. Meh I dunno. Personally I think Kek is pretty much the only guild doing the range game well enough to actually worry about pushing without WoD ready. On the other hand WoD is just so strong it's like it spoils everyone because it makes everything so much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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