[Feedback] Mad King's Raceway [merged]

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @"Tiscan.8345" said:

> > > > Fun-Fact:

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > For those who don't want to click external links, the tweet reads in full:

> > > "0.183%. That was the percentage of the 198,000 accounts registered on gw2efficiency that did the annual drift achievement before they changed its requirements."

> >

> > Click external links? The tweet is visible, it's not just a link.

>

> It's just an external link for me.

 

Huh, weird. I wonder why you can't see the tweet.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"theory.3580" said:

> > I understand that many people were having trouble with the new achievement, and this patch was meant to address their concerns. However, for many people, a lot of the enjoyment of playing games comes from the sense of mastery and accomplishment from overcoming something difficult. I practiced for hours and finally got 3 runs under 60 seconds for the Annual Mad Drifter achievement this morning, and it made my day.

> >

> > Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

> >

> > Please don't ignore the enjoyment of players that enjoy a challenge to defuse players who want relaxed fun. Both groups of us are people who just want to enjoy this amazing game. Thank you for your time.

>

> Unfortunately for this achievement in particular(and not that this is the primary reason for the change, probably only a small part), but the Beetle mount is bugged for a number of players preventing any kind of drifting, and using other mounts in the race to get less than a minute is physically not possible. On top of that the race track as was noted repeatedly in the official feedback thread was awful when it came to interacting with the beetles hitbox adding an artificial and not needed challenge. While it comes to actually challenging content like the queens gauntlet i do not believe races, activities, or adventures should be nearly impossible for a large portion of the games population.

>

> While it would be nice if they did detach achievements like this from the meta, ive noticed they want players to do all the achievements for the holiday metas.

 

I am not so sure it's buged per se.. more the slightest glitch in latency and your drift fails to work when you want it toif at all.

I was having real issues with it in there after about 30mins.. in fact I was getting better times using rappy and jacky with mount endurance boost.

Then I figured that actually the main issue I was suffering from was 1 - using boosts at the wrong time, meaning it gave me less chance to get drifts to be worthwhile and 2 - not boosting before I got an orb, meaning I was down a boost charge.

After figuring this out I got closer and closer, still not enough but then the relaxed time got patched in and immediately hit all 3 laps first time back in, suggesting maybe it was a too generous a nerf, maybe knock it back 10secs to find a better balance between skill and cake walk.

[zealex.9410]

THANKS ANET. I sure do love when things get nerfed to the point i dont even have to think to do them. I feel so accomplished and fulfilled with the mad participation award achievement.

 

#ParticipationAwards2

 

 

But in all seriousness the achievement will be here for 3 weeks. If some ppl could get 40~ sec the first or 2nd day of release then i feel its fine if others take abit longer.

 

If 3 weeks arent enough for you then heh better luck next time.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> THANKS ANET. I sure do love when things get nerfed to the point i dont even have to think to do them. I feel so accomplished and fulfilled with the mad participation award achievement.

>

> #ParticipationAwards2

>

>

> But in all seriousness the achievement will be here for 3 weeks. If some ppl could get 40~ sec the first or 2nd day of release then i feel its fine if others take abit longer.

>

> If 3 weeks arent enough for you then heh better luck next time.

 

It's not "just a bit longer".

 

For many people it wouldn't be achievable...no matter how much practice. Which locks people out of the festival meta.

 

It's a festival. It doesn't need to stroke your ego. There's plenty of other content to do so.

Mind the gold reward chest, would still do so.

 

Why do you want people not to be able to participate in the meta achieves and have fun?

 

[Dante.1763]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"theory.3580" said:

> > > I understand that many people were having trouble with the new achievement, and this patch was meant to address their concerns. However, for many people, a lot of the enjoyment of playing games comes from the sense of mastery and accomplishment from overcoming something difficult. I practiced for hours and finally got 3 runs under 60 seconds for the Annual Mad Drifter achievement this morning, and it made my day.

> > >

> > > Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

> > >

> > > Please don't ignore the enjoyment of players that enjoy a challenge to defuse players who want relaxed fun. Both groups of us are people who just want to enjoy this amazing game. Thank you for your time.

> >

> > Unfortunately for this achievement in particular(and not that this is the primary reason for the change, probably only a small part), but the Beetle mount is bugged for a number of players preventing any kind of drifting, and using other mounts in the race to get less than a minute is physically not possible. On top of that the race track as was noted repeatedly in the official feedback thread was awful when it came to interacting with the beetles hitbox adding an artificial and not needed challenge. While it comes to actually challenging content like the queens gauntlet i do not believe races, activities, or adventures should be nearly impossible for a large portion of the games population.

> >

> > While it would be nice if they did detach achievements like this from the meta, ive noticed they want players to do all the achievements for the holiday metas.

>

> I am not so sure it's buged per se.. more the slightest glitch in latency and your drift fails to work when you want it toif at all.

> I was having real issues with it in there after about 30mins.. in fact I was getting better times using rappy and jacky with mount endurance boost.

> Then I figured that actually the main issue I was suffering from was 1 - using boosts at the wrong time, meaning it gave me less chance to get drifts to be worthwhile and 2 - not boosting before I got an orb, meaning I was down a boost charge.

> After figuring this out I got closer and closer, still not enough but then the relaxed time got patched in and immediately hit all 3 laps first time back in, suggesting maybe it was a too generous a nerf, maybe knock it back 10secs to find a better balance between skill and cake walk.

 

Regardless of the cause for why the beetle does not function as it should, the issue should almost certainly be taken into consideration when developing content meant to be fun and enjoyable for the larger portion of the game.

[Jojo.6140]

I really like this change, since now i was able to easily do it with my raptor.

[Talindra.4958]

I actually luckily got mine under 1min. Can be better but doing for ap only so.. not going back to challenge myself for better timer. If I know dev going to change this to 1.30 mins. I wouldn't try so hard the day before the nerf... Someone did it at 44sec and he could have done better too if he avoid hitting the wall..Idk..1.30min is too much time I reckon.. the beetle probably needs a little adjustment making it easier to control perhaps.. or more responsive :)

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"theory.3580" said:

> > > > I understand that many people were having trouble with the new achievement, and this patch was meant to address their concerns. However, for many people, a lot of the enjoyment of playing games comes from the sense of mastery and accomplishment from overcoming something difficult. I practiced for hours and finally got 3 runs under 60 seconds for the Annual Mad Drifter achievement this morning, and it made my day.

> > > >

> > > > Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

> > > >

> > > > Please don't ignore the enjoyment of players that enjoy a challenge to defuse players who want relaxed fun. Both groups of us are people who just want to enjoy this amazing game. Thank you for your time.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately for this achievement in particular(and not that this is the primary reason for the change, probably only a small part), but the Beetle mount is bugged for a number of players preventing any kind of drifting, and using other mounts in the race to get less than a minute is physically not possible. On top of that the race track as was noted repeatedly in the official feedback thread was awful when it came to interacting with the beetles hitbox adding an artificial and not needed challenge. While it comes to actually challenging content like the queens gauntlet i do not believe races, activities, or adventures should be nearly impossible for a large portion of the games population.

> > >

> > > While it would be nice if they did detach achievements like this from the meta, ive noticed they want players to do all the achievements for the holiday metas.

> >

> > I am not so sure it's buged per se.. more the slightest glitch in latency and your drift fails to work when you want it toif at all.

> > I was having real issues with it in there after about 30mins.. in fact I was getting better times using rappy and jacky with mount endurance boost.

> > Then I figured that actually the main issue I was suffering from was 1 - using boosts at the wrong time, meaning it gave me less chance to get drifts to be worthwhile and 2 - not boosting before I got an orb, meaning I was down a boost charge.

> > After figuring this out I got closer and closer, still not enough but then the relaxed time got patched in and immediately hit all 3 laps first time back in, suggesting maybe it was a too generous a nerf, maybe knock it back 10secs to find a better balance between skill and cake walk.

>

> Regardless of the cause for why the beetle does not function as it should, the issue should almost certainly be taken into consideration when developing content meant to be fun and enjoyable for the larger portion of the game.

 

More balanced in terms of time for sure, makes it more enjoyable. I dislike the track in terms of beetle mount, as it is terribly unforgiving and yes the beetle drift is fickle at the best of times. But making it easily doable on each mount takes away a lot of the fun, and becomes nothing more than a race round any other map... it needs some challenge both terrain and time. Merely making it to easy defeats the objective... hence why I say knock the nerf back a little to cater for all... under 1 min was definitely a stretch for many of us, but now I think we may see the opposite effect.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"smiling.9028" said:

> I challenge ANY dev including the one who established the 1 minute time to do this race in 1 minute on a DSL connection. Not all of us play on a 1gbs+ connection and without it there's no chance.

 

Not true.. I did it, and I am no Vin Diesel when it comes to drift racing believe me.

I live in a cul-de-sac with 2 other houses and were all on crappy 8-12Mbs DSL cons .. 200metres up to the end of our road the junction meets the main streets who are all serviced with BT and Virgin fibre lines with con speed x10 - x20 the speed

[Willhart.8230]

Thank you for the change. Looks like I was able to get the annual achievement with a raptor now too. This means people who are not caught up with the latest episode can get it now too. It's also nice that the time trial requirements stayed unchanged, so that people who want to test their limits can still do that.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > THANKS ANET. I sure do love when things get nerfed to the point i dont even have to think to do them. I feel so accomplished and fulfilled with the mad participation award achievement.

> >

> > #ParticipationAwards2

> >

> >

> > But in all seriousness the achievement will be here for 3 weeks. If some ppl could get 40~ sec the first or 2nd day of release then i feel its fine if others take abit longer.

> >

> > If 3 weeks arent enough for you then heh better luck next time.

>

> It's not "just a bit longer".

>

> For many people it wouldn't be achievable...no matter how much practice. Which locks people out of the festival meta.

>

> It's a festival. It doesn't need to stroke your ego. There's plenty of other content to do so.

> Mind the gold reward chest, would still do so.

>

> Why do you want people not to be able to participate in the meta achieves and have fun?

>

 

The achievement isnt required for the meta. And "its a festival" doesnt cut it. Halloween has the clock tower which is considered one if the harder jps, same with the 3 jps in winter's day.

 

Furthermore this has nothing to do with my ego. Im expressing my disatisfaction with somethingthing that would have given me enjoyment trying to get being nerfed because theres apparently some rule which states that all achievements should be first time achievements and participation awards. "Because its a festival", SAB is also a festival.

 

Also, i nowhere said i dont want ppl to participate in the meta or the achievements or have the freedom to participate, the race is open (it is my understanding at least) to everyone. No li, kp or 9 friends needed.

 

The race came out 2 days ago and there were already guides on how to beat it in under 50 seconds.

 

Now its been nerfed to the point where ppl can do the lap in almost 1:30 on foot and might even be able to complete it without mounts.

[AerosAtar.3198]

_[Edit] Nevermind, I was reading it wrong apparently. Thanks @"Gop.8713" for pointing out my mistake._

[Gop.8713]

The Lunatic Racer cheeve is for the race in the lab. I made the same mistake first time I read it too ;)

[Grim West.3194]

/signed

 

I heard this race was very tough an was very much looking forward to the challenge. Was just waiting for the weekend so I could max my beetle first. Weekends are my game days.

 

ANET please listen to the OP. Nothing is worse than endless pablum without challenge. It's as fun as death.

 

 

[Grim West.3194]

Bleh. Fun killed again.

[GRRRR.3521]

Was expecting some Wipeout style dragster racetrack where you would be able to go ham on speed catching refill balls like speed pads or something. Instead its a cramped track with many sharp turns full of tiny obstacles on an old map. Doesnt really play to the beetles strength, highlights its downsides, kinda annoying. Was it made by the clocktower guy per chance? :open_mouth:

 

Agree its super easy now but eh. Ill freely admit i tried like 5 times and got bored flipping all over the place, gettting stuck on a tiny gravestone or misdrifting into a wall and went back to lab farming. Ridge Racer Type Bleh. Being able to get the mini candle due to the "nerf" was kinda nice (not a must-have mini imo, kinda ugly).

 

If it wasnt a "required" achievement to begin with nobody prolly woulda complained. Make it as hard as you like, heck give it its own title as a separate "hardcore" achievement. But maybe the devs just drastically overestimated everyones racing skills XD

 

Anybody who doesnt feel special anymore, the race times still get recorded?

 

[Talindra.4958]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"theory.3580" said:

> >

> > Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

>

> This.

>

> It's remarkable that ANet so loves their content that they want _all_ players (or as many as would do it at all) to do all content, rather than offering choice, so that there can be some challenging things out there without making it so that general goals depend on being both a completionist and a challenge lover.

 

Yeh. Should just improve the beetle performance than nerfing the achievement... Ppl can do it in 40sec.

I'm lucky enough to get it under 1min after many tries.

The normal race frequency is very annoying bcos when that's on, we have to wait and can't do the mastery race.

 

Note: many ppl in my fl actually did this ap under 1 min before they nerf it

 

This is my try (@400 ping) :p I had fun. Want to thank the dev for making this race. Hope to see improvement rather than nerf.

[zealex.9410]

> @"GRRRR.3521" said:

> Was expecting some Wipeout style dragster racetrack where you would be able to go ham on speed catching refill balls like speed pads or something. Instead its a cramped track with many sharp turns full of tiny obstacles on an old map. Doesnt really play to the beetles strength, highlights its downsides, kinda annoying. Was it made by the clocktower guy per chance? :open_mouth:

>

> Agree its super easy now but eh. Ill freely admit i tried like 5 times and got bored flipping all over the place, gettting stuck on a tiny gravestone or misdrifting into a wall and went back to lab farming. Ridge Racer Type Bleh. Being able to get the mini candle due to the "nerf" was kinda nice (not a must-have mini imo, kinda ugly).

>

> If it wasnt a "required" achievement to begin with nobody prolly woulda complained. Make it as hard as you like, heck give it its own title as a separate "hardcore" achievement. But maybe the devs just drastically overestimated everyones racing skills XD

>

> Anybody who doesnt feel special anymore, the race times still get recorded?

>

 

Heres a "guide" of the beetle race. Wouldnt necessarily say "Doesnt really play to the beetles strength, highlights its downsides"

 

 

(9:00)

[pholtos.9751]

I don't know if I speak for those who don't have the beetle yet or not, but for those of us who rented a beetle, we didn't have access to the full range of abilities and there was also the added problem of once you got knocked off the beetle, you couldn't get the beetle back til you returned to the rental and got another. (Which, given there are exploding pumpkins that knock you off your mount, is problematic.) I have no idea why they don't just have the beetle be in your mount slot til you leave the map if you rent one.

 

Beyond this, the race is exceedingly cramped to the point that there was just so many things you could get caught on, and hardly enough room to get speed, beyond the central area. The game also gives no indication of the drifting mechanic or anything else about the beetle in game at the rental, further complicating things. The only visible thing you can learn via the skillbar from what I could tell was the skill that attacks enemies and then dismounts you.

 

So I had to stick with a raptor, and even then couldn't manage to get anywhere close to 1 minute. (Was around 1:20-ish or so iirc)

Perhaps it is possible with the raptor, I didn't try to be as efficient as possible, and would be perfectly fine being wrong about this point.

I would have been fine to get the 9 others as a note, I managed the last one today. (Carving)

Maybe I could have spent a while trying to improve at the racetrack, but it would have been an extremely frustrating experience to work towards.

[Vayne.8563]

I think the OP is missing a point. This decision wasn't about one achievement. It was about the ability to get the meta achievement.

 

There are hard achievements in this game, like doing the Chaos Fractal at Tier 4. But there are also casual achievements. Many casual players play for those achievements. Holidays in particularly which occur during a 3 week period and go away are particularly bad for casual players, who may only have a few hours to spend a week if that. Anet needs to make stuff like holidays something most people can bang away at and get the meta for.

 

The issue here is that a lot of casuals can't complete the Mad King's Clocktower and a lot of casuals can't complete the race in under a minute. Sure it's fine you want a harder achievement...and one exists. Get gold in a minute and five seconds in the time trial. But the meta itself, that should never be something the casual person can't do, because the casual players are always going to outnumber the harder core players.

 

I love jumping puzzles and I was able to do the Mad King's Clock Tower but many in my guild haven't been able to. And many weren't able to do the race in under 60 seconds. A couple didn't even have the beetle. Which means they can't get the meta without beating the clocktower.

 

Some casual players in my guild saw that they couldn't get the meta, knowing they couldn't beat the clocktower and knowing they wouldn't get the race after trying it, and so they gave up and logged out. Absolutely not good for the game. To them, if they can't get the meta, why even bother? The meta was always something at festivals that was attainable by, for lack of a better term, the lowest common denominator. Let other, harder achievements exist in raids and fractals...but not metas and nothing that's limited in time. Some people go on vacation and miss a week or two of the festival. There's a place for difficult achievements. Holiday metas aren't that place. No difficult achievement should be time limited as well.

[Shayne Hawke.9160]

I have now managed to finish a lap in under a minute without any PoF masteries (video [here](https://webm.video/UCp0d9 "here")). I no longer have any sympathy for any players with PoF who claim they can not do this.

[Myrdreth.6829]

Thank you so much for listening to us, Anet :)

 

> @"Shaaba.5672" said:

> I agree with those who are happy with this change. I don't hate having very difficult achievements in this game, I think it's healthy. However, for festival content, let's lower the bar a bit, ok? I'd like it if this race still had an achievement for the 60 second finish while having the meta be lower. We're all here to have fun, right? For the festival metas, I think the goal is for people to play and try all the activities, not be a master at it. At least that's what I think it should be.

 

/sign

 

[Tiscan.8345]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > @"Tiscan.8345" said:

> > > > > Fun-Fact:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > For those who don't want to click external links, the tweet reads in full:

> > > > "0.183%. That was the percentage of the 198,000 accounts registered on gw2efficiency that did the annual drift achievement before they changed its requirements."

> > >

> > > Click external links? The tweet is visible, it's not just a link.

> >

> > It's just an external link for me.

>

> Huh, weird. I wonder why you can't see the tweet.

 

I guess Illconceived is using a browser-extension that blocks external javascript/queries. In that case, only the link shows up instead of the embedded tweet.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > THANKS ANET. I sure do love when things get nerfed to the point i dont even have to think to do them. I feel so accomplished and fulfilled with the mad participation award achievement.

> > >

> > > #ParticipationAwards2

> > >

> > >

> > > But in all seriousness the achievement will be here for 3 weeks. If some ppl could get 40~ sec the first or 2nd day of release then i feel its fine if others take abit longer.

> > >

> > > If 3 weeks arent enough for you then heh better luck next time.

> >

> > It's not "just a bit longer".

> >

> > For many people it wouldn't be achievable...no matter how much practice. Which locks people out of the festival meta.

> >

> > It's a festival. It doesn't need to stroke your ego. There's plenty of other content to do so.

> > Mind the gold reward chest, would still do so.

> >

> > Why do you want people not to be able to participate in the meta achieves and have fun?

> >

>

> The achievement isnt required for the meta. And "its a festival" doesnt cut it. Halloween has the clock tower which is considered one if the harder jps, same with the 3 jps in winter's day.

>

> Furthermore this has nothing to do with my ego. Im expressing my disatisfaction with somethingthing that would have given me enjoyment trying to get being nerfed because theres apparently some rule which states that all achievements should be first time achievements and participation awards. "Because its a festival", SAB is also a festival.

>

> Also, i nowhere said i dont want ppl to participate in the meta or the achievements or have the freedom to participate, the race is open (it is my understanding at least) to everyone. No li, kp or 9 friends needed.

>

> The race came out 2 days ago and there were already guides on how to beat it in under 50 seconds.

>

> Now its been nerfed to the point where ppl can do the lap in almost 1:30 on foot and might even be able to complete it without mounts.

 

there were two very difficult achieves.. the clock tower or the beetle race.

 

Meaning one of them was required.

And chances are, many people who can't do the clock tower can't do the beetle either.

 

Making a difficult achieve a requirement of the festival meta is bad, imo.

And Anet clearly agrees.

 

What's stopping you from still trying to get it? there's still a leader board, gold reward is still very difficult.

Why can't that give you enjoyment?

Why do you need to lock people out of the meta to enjoy it? (Which you do when a majority of players probably can't do it. Aa the same as far as I know, the majority of players can't beat the clock tower either.

So having two difficult achieves would've locked them out of finishing the meta.

 

Knowing how to do it, doesn't mean it's possible to do.

I know how to do clock tower, I've watched loads of videos ..I still can't do it. There's one spot I cannot get past fast enough.

No matter how many times I do it.

 

The same goes for the beetle. That mount moves too fast for me.

 

I for example looked at the 1 minute achieve and decided not to bother with any of the achieves because id have been stuck at 8/10. Now with the change, I'm doing the rest too.

 

If this was the case for the majority of players, then the change was necessary. (and I agree with it.. it is just a chill festival, why does having more people being able to complete the meta ruin your enjoyment? )

 

 

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Shayne Hawke.9160" said:

> I have now managed to finish a lap in under a minute without any PoF masteries (video [here](https://webm.video/UCp0d9 "here")). I no longer have any sympathy for any players with PoF who claim they can not do this.

 

But can they finish it without the beetle full stop? Because I don't think they can.