Progression in GW2

[Haishao.6851]

> @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > - snip -

> > >

> > > This is just wrong on so many levels

> > >

> > > I can pull so many memories from my brain from EverQuest from 1999-2007. That was a proper MMORPG. I have so many fond and crazy memories from JUST THE LEVELING EXPERIENCE alone. Not to mention the raids, the 27 now? expansions it has. Not even talking about alts or marketplace garbage or glitches or just general fun and danger that world presented.

> > >

> > > Because what I said is 100% true on the credit card swiping the developers have effectively denied it's playerbase of any of the aforementioned. You "CAN" do that stuff right? But because the option to skip everything in the game exists it damages the spirit of it. The struggle for power, the climb to it, the journey your character takes after smashing giant rats in for 3 hours to achieve level 5 was something.

> > >

> > > The horror you felt when you were running through a huge massive dangerous high level zone was something

> > > The fear you felt when venturing through Crushbone as a low level team of noobs was something

> > > The community and reputation you had to maintain to find a druid for SoW and or a Necromancer to summon your corpse because you had a mistep in Lower Guk WAS SOMETHING

> > > The market was 100 % player driven

> > > The feeling of excitement and adventure when you go through an entirely new zone few people have actual knowledge on was something

> > > No mounts, no insta travel, no insta level, no insta boost, no insta insta insta me me me me now now now now mechanics existed

> > >

> > > So sir or madam your entire post is just... well it's wrong man. On so so many levels. I could even argue WoW had similar experiences that EQ1 did. The leveling experience means something to actual true RPG players. The me me me now now now kids ruined that whether you admit it or not.

> > >

> > > What memories do I have of Guild Wars 2 ? Zerging in WvW? yeah thats fun. Stressing over teammates who just keep walking off point B in PvP arena, yeah super fun. The "map completion" stuff thats instantly trivialized the second you get any amount of power above it's threshold. Yeah ok. What else? I can't think of 1 memory I have in GW2 that makes me go " OH MAN I REMEMBER THAT ONE TIME" not 1

> >

> > So, you have a nostalgia thing going for old MMO's. That's fine. What that "something" you keep referring to is, , though, is you adding meaning to essentially meaningless time-wasting. MMO's are all about keeping you busy because that's what the business model requires. I get that you won't see it that way, because that's how our heads work.

> >

> > I never played the older MMO's like EQ. Corpse runs, waiting for lengthy boss respawns, then competing with other waiters for tags, none of that appeals to me. Ommv.

> >

> > I did play WoW back in the BC/Wrath days. The whole game was about wasting my time. I just tried the FFIV free trial. All about wasting my time. GW2 also offers to waste my time. At least, though, in GW2, the price is right, and I can choose _not_ to waste my time unless I feel like it today.

> >

> > What it comes down to is that older-style MMO's are no longer attractive enough to _enough_ players to justify the plethora of choices competing for market share. That's why GW2 -- and other games -- cater to people who aren't interested in deferred gratification, who want convenience over whatever it is you think an MMO should offer instead. Still, I hear you. This trend in online games is part of a general trend in society. As much as I don't like what most MMO's offer, I do find that trend alarming.

>

> Your argument loses all credibility and falls completely flat on it's face at "I never played Old MMO's like EQ"

>

> Then how would you know?

>

> That's like me playing GW2 only up to lv 80 in a few hours and telling people who have played it for 6 years how to "win the game"

 

Fixed that for you

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> 1) Install Game

> 2) Swipe credit card for level 80 boost

> 3) Swipe credit card for 200 gold (10 bucks?)

> 4) Boost

> 5) Go to Metabattle and pick a build that looks fun

> 6) Go to any Marketboard and buy all level 80 exotic gear

> 7) **Realize any player that put an actual effort in their class instead of "swiping" does 10x more damage than you (and doesn't seem to die as much as you do while doing that)**

> 8) Uninstall

> 9) **Rage on forums**

Fixed that for you.

 

Seriously, i don't even know what you're complaining about. That some people can use RL money to skip the introductory (and most boring) part of the game before they start playing? What's the problem with this?

 

 

[aswedishtiger.7320]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > > - snip -

> > > >

> > > > This is just wrong on so many levels

> > > >

> > > > I can pull so many memories from my brain from EverQuest from 1999-2007. That was a proper MMORPG. I have so many fond and crazy memories from JUST THE LEVELING EXPERIENCE alone. Not to mention the raids, the 27 now? expansions it has. Not even talking about alts or marketplace garbage or glitches or just general fun and danger that world presented.

> > > >

> > > > Because what I said is 100% true on the credit card swiping the developers have effectively denied it's playerbase of any of the aforementioned. You "CAN" do that stuff right? But because the option to skip everything in the game exists it damages the spirit of it. The struggle for power, the climb to it, the journey your character takes after smashing giant rats in for 3 hours to achieve level 5 was something.

> > > >

> > > > The horror you felt when you were running through a huge massive dangerous high level zone was something

> > > > The fear you felt when venturing through Crushbone as a low level team of noobs was something

> > > > The community and reputation you had to maintain to find a druid for SoW and or a Necromancer to summon your corpse because you had a mistep in Lower Guk WAS SOMETHING

> > > > The market was 100 % player driven

> > > > The feeling of excitement and adventure when you go through an entirely new zone few people have actual knowledge on was something

> > > > No mounts, no insta travel, no insta level, no insta boost, no insta insta insta me me me me now now now now mechanics existed

> > > >

> > > > So sir or madam your entire post is just... well it's wrong man. On so so many levels. I could even argue WoW had similar experiences that EQ1 did. The leveling experience means something to actual true RPG players. The me me me now now now kids ruined that whether you admit it or not.

> > > >

> > > > What memories do I have of Guild Wars 2 ? Zerging in WvW? yeah thats fun. Stressing over teammates who just keep walking off point B in PvP arena, yeah super fun. The "map completion" stuff thats instantly trivialized the second you get any amount of power above it's threshold. Yeah ok. What else? I can't think of 1 memory I have in GW2 that makes me go " OH MAN I REMEMBER THAT ONE TIME" not 1

> > >

> > > So, you have a nostalgia thing going for old MMO's. That's fine. What that "something" you keep referring to is, , though, is you adding meaning to essentially meaningless time-wasting. MMO's are all about keeping you busy because that's what the business model requires. I get that you won't see it that way, because that's how our heads work.

> > >

> > > I never played the older MMO's like EQ. Corpse runs, waiting for lengthy boss respawns, then competing with other waiters for tags, none of that appeals to me. Ommv.

> > >

> > > I did play WoW back in the BC/Wrath days. The whole game was about wasting my time. I just tried the FFIV free trial. All about wasting my time. GW2 also offers to waste my time. At least, though, in GW2, the price is right, and I can choose _not_ to waste my time unless I feel like it today.

> > >

> > > What it comes down to is that older-style MMO's are no longer attractive enough to _enough_ players to justify the plethora of choices competing for market share. That's why GW2 -- and other games -- cater to people who aren't interested in deferred gratification, who want convenience over whatever it is you think an MMO should offer instead. Still, I hear you. This trend in online games is part of a general trend in society. As much as I don't like what most MMO's offer, I do find that trend alarming.

> >

> > Your argument loses all credibility and falls completely flat on it's face at "I never played Old MMO's like EQ"

> >

> > Then how would you know?

> >

> > That's like me playing GW2 only up to lv 80 in a few hours and telling people who have played it for 6 years how to "win the game"

>

> Fixed that for you

>

>

 

I leveled GW2 with no boost and strictly grinding / main story questline. Read my other responses and keep up with the thread please

[aswedishtiger.7320]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > 1) Install Game

> > 2) Swipe credit card for level 80 boost

> > 3) Swipe credit card for 200 gold (10 bucks?)

> > 4) Boost

> > 5) Go to Metabattle and pick a build that looks fun

> > 6) Go to any Marketboard and buy all level 80 exotic gear

> > 7) **Realize any player that put an actual effort in their class instead of "swiping" does 10x more damage than you (and doesn't seem to die as much as you do while doing that)**

> > 8) Uninstall

> > 9) **Rage on forums**

> Fixed that for you.

>

> Seriously, i don't even know what you're complaining about. That some people can use RL money to skip the introductory (and most boring) part of the game before they start playing? What's the problem with this?

>

>

 

If you think my post or any subsequent ones are considered "rage" then boy have I got news for you

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > - snip -

> > >

> > > This is just wrong on so many levels

> > >

> > > I can pull so many memories from my brain from EverQuest from 1999-2007. That was a proper MMORPG. I have so many fond and crazy memories from JUST THE LEVELING EXPERIENCE alone. Not to mention the raids, the 27 now? expansions it has. Not even talking about alts or marketplace garbage or glitches or just general fun and danger that world presented.

> > >

> > > Because what I said is 100% true on the credit card swiping the developers have effectively denied it's playerbase of any of the aforementioned. You "CAN" do that stuff right? But because the option to skip everything in the game exists it damages the spirit of it. The struggle for power, the climb to it, the journey your character takes after smashing giant rats in for 3 hours to achieve level 5 was something.

> > >

> > > The horror you felt when you were running through a huge massive dangerous high level zone was something

> > > The fear you felt when venturing through Crushbone as a low level team of noobs was something

> > > The community and reputation you had to maintain to find a druid for SoW and or a Necromancer to summon your corpse because you had a mistep in Lower Guk WAS SOMETHING

> > > The market was 100 % player driven

> > > The feeling of excitement and adventure when you go through an entirely new zone few people have actual knowledge on was something

> > > No mounts, no insta travel, no insta level, no insta boost, no insta insta insta me me me me now now now now mechanics existed

> > >

> > > So sir or madam your entire post is just... well it's wrong man. On so so many levels. I could even argue WoW had similar experiences that EQ1 did. The leveling experience means something to actual true RPG players. The me me me now now now kids ruined that whether you admit it or not.

> > >

> > > What memories do I have of Guild Wars 2 ? Zerging in WvW? yeah thats fun. Stressing over teammates who just keep walking off point B in PvP arena, yeah super fun. The "map completion" stuff thats instantly trivialized the second you get any amount of power above it's threshold. Yeah ok. What else? I can't think of 1 memory I have in GW2 that makes me go " OH MAN I REMEMBER THAT ONE TIME" not 1

> >

> > So, you have a nostalgia thing going for old MMO's. That's fine. What that "something" you keep referring to is, , though, is you adding meaning to essentially meaningless time-wasting. MMO's are all about keeping you busy because that's what the business model requires. I get that you won't see it that way, because that's how our heads work.

> >

> > I never played the older MMO's like EQ. Corpse runs, waiting for lengthy boss respawns, then competing with other waiters for tags, none of that appeals to me. Ommv.

> >

> > I did play WoW back in the BC/Wrath days. The whole game was about wasting my time. I just tried the FFIV free trial. All about wasting my time. GW2 also offers to waste my time. At least, though, in GW2, the price is right, and I can choose _not_ to waste my time unless I feel like it today.

> >

> > What it comes down to is that older-style MMO's are no longer attractive enough to _enough_ players to justify the plethora of choices competing for market share. That's why GW2 -- and other games -- cater to people who aren't interested in deferred gratification, who want convenience over whatever it is you think an MMO should offer instead. Still, I hear you. This trend in online games is part of a general trend in society. As much as I don't like what most MMO's offer, I do find that trend alarming.

>

> Your argument loses all credibility and falls completely flat on it's face at "I never played Old MMO's like EQ"

>

> Then how would you know?

>

> That's like me going up to a pregnant woman and advising her and telling her what she's going to go through. I'm not a woman and have never been pregnant. I would have no idea and have no input on the matter.

 

I don't need to thoroughly experience things that I will not enjoy to know that I will not enjoy them. For instance, I routinely bypass romantic comedy films because I _know_ I have no interest in that type of entertainment. So, no, it's not like some random guy offering a woman advice on pregnancy. There are plenty of male obstetricians, though, so it's apparently possible to have knowledge of something without being able to experience it.

 

I completely get that you enjoyed those games. That does not mean that I would, or that there is any inherent _objective_, universal value in those games. In the same way, there is no objective universal value in this game, despite that I enjoy some aspects of it.

 

You seem interested in "winning" an argument rather than an exchange of different views. If that's the case, I have no interest in convincing you that you did not enjoy other MMO's or that you dislike aspects of GW2. If your thread is based on thwarted expectations (i.e., you bought GW2 expecting a good experience as you define it and are disappointed), I will offer a small bit of advice. It is no longer safe -- if it ever was -- to assume that because a game is labeled an MMO that it will offer an experience sufficiently similar to an older MMO you enjoyed to be worth your time or money. "Look before you leap." has always been good advice. If that is not what's going on, then I've no clue, but wish you well.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > You forgot about mastery progress, as in unlocking and leveling all masteries and skill progression, as in getting better at the game. Doing everything you said won't necessarily allow you to beat even some story missions, never mind getting the harder achievements in them. I think a game with a low bar to entry and a high skill ceiling is precisely what this genre needs.

>

> Oh I can speak an ancient language of frog people that was useful 2 years ago (kinda). What a feat!

 

So you ignore gliding. You ignore riding updrafts. You ignore mounts. How convenient.

 

Not to mention the Frog people sell things you need to do stuff like craft HoT legendaries. If you don't have that mastery you can't craft a HOT legendary and yes, legendaries are part of the end game of this game. You don't like the fifth downed skill I suppose, or the one that recharges your mount's stamina. It IS a form of progression, whether or not any one player personally approves or not.

[joneirikb.7506]

People have different tastes. Different games appeal to different players.

 

GW2 is the only MMO game I've played longer than a couple of months tops (DDO for 3 months, longest after GW2). I've tested several, and read up on, asked friends that play, checked out gameplay and reviews etc on multiple (mostly because I'm interested in game design). And I can tell you flat out that I wouldn't be able to stand the "oldschool mmorpg" at all, I probably wouldn't get through the basic tutorial before I was sick/disgusted/bored/tired of it.

 

Then again, I'm a person that find grinding so boring that it's usually a deal-breaker for me. If games require me to grind, they have to be incredibly awesome to keep me playing even 30 minutes. Leveling, Gearing, and any other sort of Grinding, traditional "rpg mechanics" designed around extending the life of content, without having to actually make more content. After all if a map would actually take 1 hour to go through and explore everything, and fight all the enemies once, if you just set some random levels to the enemies, and makes it so the players have to level up a few times in order to kill the last enemies, that 1 hour worth of content can easily be extended to 2 hours, 5 hours, or even 10 hours. As long as humans see small numbers increase, most of them are happy... for some reason.

 

If I could, in GW2, decide when I make a new character, to use the PVP build system for the rest of the game I would (auto level 80 with everything unlocked, swapping amulet and runes/sigils as you wish, but being locked to effectively exotic 80 gear with no way to get ascended, and locked to pvp runes/sigils/stats, as well as a whole amulet for stats no mixing). Because the entire fun in the game for me lies in having fun with the combat system, finding builds I like to play with, finding challenging enemies to fight (hint, they are NOT anywhere in the maps where you level).

 

So frankly, every single reason you've listed so far to EQ's greatness, sounds like good reasons to fall asleep for me. And your very argument against GW2 reads to me like you don't want to actually play the actual game (which for me starts, where your list ended, except that I'm too cheap to throw money at level 80 boost, gw2 leveling isn't bad enough that I'll bother).

 

So congratulations, the only thing you've managed to convince me off/prove to me, is that your opinions are different than mine. Shocking, I know.

 

/rant

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > > 1) Install Game

> > > 2) Swipe credit card for level 80 boost

> > > 3) Swipe credit card for 200 gold (10 bucks?)

> > > 4) Boost

> > > 5) Go to Metabattle and pick a build that looks fun

> > > 6) Go to any Marketboard and buy all level 80 exotic gear

> > > 7) **Realize any player that put an actual effort in their class instead of "swiping" does 10x more damage than you (and doesn't seem to die as much as you do while doing that)**

> > > 8) Uninstall

> > > 9) **Rage on forums**

> > Fixed that for you.

> >

> > Seriously, i don't even know what you're complaining about. That some people can use RL money to skip the introductory (and most boring) part of the game before they start playing? What's the problem with this?

> >

> >

>

> If you think my post or any subsequent ones are considered "rage" then boy have I got news for you

Oh, no, i wasn't referring to you. I was referring to a common reaction of any player that thought your advice would really "win" them the game, when they realized it doesn't work that way.

 

Personally i think that all your complains are based on one thing only: the fact that you somehow completely misunderstood the nature of this game. Obviously, when you base your conclusions on faulty assumptions, these conclusions will also end up faulty. As such, it's really hard to even have a meaningful discussion here - you're not discussing about GW2 at all. but about some fictional game you thought up. One we don't even know any details about (apart from the fact that apparently when you gear up, you stop playing).

[Dainank.1308]

But but... You have no mastery points :(

[Reverielle.3972]

OP, thank you for posting a very succinct summation about how out of touch some of the player-base is these days regarding what these games are about.

[Einsof.1457]

This is the most epic of trolling threads I've seen in a while

[ProtoGunner.4953]

> @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

 

>

> Because what I said is 100% true on the credit card swiping the developers have effectively denied it's playerbase of any of the aforementioned. You "CAN" do that stuff right? But because the option to skip everything in the game exists it damages the spirit of it. The struggle for power, the climb to it, the journey your character takes after smashing giant rats in for 3 hours to achieve level 5 was something.

>

> The horror you felt when you were running through a huge massive dangerous high level zone was something

> The fear you felt when venturing through Crushbone as a low level team of noobs was something

> The community and reputation you had to maintain to find a druid for SoW and or a Necromancer to summon your corpse because you had a mistep in Lower Guk WAS SOMETHING

> The market was 100 % player driven

> The feeling of excitement and adventure when you go through an entirely new zone few people have actual knowledge on was something

> No mounts, no insta travel, no insta level, no insta boost, no insta insta insta me me me me now now now now mechanics existed

>

> So sir or madam your entire post is just... well it's wrong man. On so so many levels. I could even argue WoW had similar experiences that EQ1 did. The leveling experience means something to actual true RPG players. The me me me now now now kids ruined that whether you admit it or not.

>

> What memories do I have of Guild Wars 2 ? Zerging in WvW? yeah thats fun. Stressing over teammates who just keep walking off point B in PvP arena, yeah super fun. The "map completion" stuff thats instantly trivialized the second you get any amount of power above it's threshold. Yeah ok. What else? I can't think of 1 memory I have in GW2 that makes me go " OH MAN I REMEMBER THAT ONE TIME" not 1

 

No you are wrong and you are living in the past with nostalgia memories. Today the playerbase changed. People aren't only 15-30 year old students and such people do not have the time or do not want to invest their spare free time in only one game or only one hobby in general. The game gives you options and that's good. That said: if you only see gearing up and playing meta as the ultimate target then I feel sorry for you. No credit card gives you the experience of a raid or a high level fractal. You have to do and experience it for your own. Besides that you said that exotic gear is enough: no it is not, you can't do high level fractals without it.

 

Also, the good old days - which I also fondly remember - weren't that good as you may remember it. It is _your_ experience like one 15 year old plays Fortnite today, which I find a horrible game - but in 15 years this person will remember fondly the 'good old times of Fortnite' and ponder/rant about the today's horrible playerbase and casual games.

 

Also do not forget that most MMOs today offer ways to cut off playtime.

[Kaththea.5079]

Almost sounds like OP bought base game and leveled and then someone bought an expac got an insta 80 and beat him after only playing a week. Assuming this because most pve folks that I know use snowcrows. Most wvw's I know don't use metabattle either but have guild specific builds which may be close to metabattle but aren't the same.

 

Also most of the preferred specs on metabattle include the new specializations which require at least a little effort to complete.

[aswedishtiger.7320]

> @"Kaththea.5079" said:

> Almost sounds like OP bought base game and leveled and then someone bought an expac got an insta 80 and beat him after only playing a week. Assuming this because most pve folks that I know use snowcrows. Most wvw's I know don't use metabattle either but have guild specific builds which may be close to metabattle but aren't the same.

>

> Also most of the preferred specs on metabattle include the new specializations which require at least a little effort to complete.

 

I have all the expansions

[aswedishtiger.7320]

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> > @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

>

> >

> > Because what I said is 100% true on the credit card swiping the developers have effectively denied it's playerbase of any of the aforementioned. You "CAN" do that stuff right? But because the option to skip everything in the game exists it damages the spirit of it. The struggle for power, the climb to it, the journey your character takes after smashing giant rats in for 3 hours to achieve level 5 was something.

> >

> > The horror you felt when you were running through a huge massive dangerous high level zone was something

> > The fear you felt when venturing through Crushbone as a low level team of noobs was something

> > The community and reputation you had to maintain to find a druid for SoW and or a Necromancer to summon your corpse because you had a mistep in Lower Guk WAS SOMETHING

> > The market was 100 % player driven

> > The feeling of excitement and adventure when you go through an entirely new zone few people have actual knowledge on was something

> > No mounts, no insta travel, no insta level, no insta boost, no insta insta insta me me me me now now now now mechanics existed

> >

> > So sir or madam your entire post is just... well it's wrong man. On so so many levels. I could even argue WoW had similar experiences that EQ1 did. The leveling experience means something to actual true RPG players. The me me me now now now kids ruined that whether you admit it or not.

> >

> > What memories do I have of Guild Wars 2 ? Zerging in WvW? yeah thats fun. Stressing over teammates who just keep walking off point B in PvP arena, yeah super fun. The "map completion" stuff thats instantly trivialized the second you get any amount of power above it's threshold. Yeah ok. What else? I can't think of 1 memory I have in GW2 that makes me go " OH MAN I REMEMBER THAT ONE TIME" not 1

>

> No you are wrong and you are living in the past with nostalgia memories. Today the playerbase changed. People aren't only 15-30 year old students and such people do not have the time or do not want to invest their spare free time in only one game or only one hobby in general. The game gives you options and that's good. That said: if you only see gearing up and playing meta as the ultimate target then I feel sorry for you. No credit card gives you the experience of a raid or a high level fractal. You have to do and experience it for your own. Besides that you said that exotic gear is enough: no it is not, you can't do high level fractals without it.

>

> Also, the good old days - which I also fondly remember - weren't that good as you may remember it. It is _your_ experience like one 15 year old plays Fortnite today, which I find a horrible game - but in 15 years this person will remember fondly the 'good old times of Fortnite' and ponder/rant about the today's horrible playerbase and casual games.

>

> Also do not forget that most MMOs today offer ways to cut off playtime.

 

Few things

 

1) Nostalgia isn't a horrible thing like you're making it out to be

2) 15-30 year old students have tons of time just like in the 90s like I did

3) My experience like one 15 year old plays Fortnite today I do agree with you I find it to be an absolutely horrible game but maybe you're onto something here

4) I'm not ranting about "today's horrible playerbase and casual games" my main concern is the "swipe your credit card to not play the game" factor that exists in so many games nowadays. Especially MMORPGs which are specifically designed to be immersed in and be a huge time sink. The implementation of "swipe and skip literally the whole game" baffles me and damages the spirit of the game

[aswedishtiger.7320]

> @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> OP, thank you for posting a very succinct summation about how out of touch some of the player-base is these days regarding what these games are about.

 

Enlighten me. Use me as an example. Pretend I never played GW2 and I did all the steps I laid out in my OP and tell me of all the "good times" and amazing moments I missed in GW2 had I taken the path laid out in the OP

[Goettel.4389]

OP confuses his own experience for the norm.

[Odinens.5920]

LOL at people that think getting to 80 is all there is, and LOL more at the people that use a boost that have no idea how the game works. Good luck and have fun getting wrecked in every game mode you attempt at 80.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"aswedishtiger.7320" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > OP, thank you for posting a very succinct summation about how out of touch some of the player-base is these days regarding what these games are about.

>

> Enlighten me. Use me as an example. Pretend I never played GW2 and I did all the steps I laid out in my OP and tell me of all the "good times" and amazing moments I missed in GW2 had I taken the path laid out in the OP

 

I'd have missed the joy of exploring the world, which some people like. Doing what you say in the OP would have destroyed the game for me completely. I enjoy the dynamic events. Finding hidden caves. Jumping puzzles. I enjoy completing zones the first time through, maybe getting the occasional black lion key. I enjoyed world bosses when I was first leveling up.

 

And I enjoy getting better at the game, which buying everything and looking up builds doesn't really give you.

[Danikat.8537]

It's not a matter of new vs. old MMOs either. Ultima Online, one of the first MMOs (and the first to be called an MMO) was very similar to Guild Wars 2 in this respect. Characters didn't have levels but skills did and if you wanted to you could max out your skills in about 8 hours and then use the gold you earned from the same grinding to buy a full set of equipment from a crafter. But no sane UO player would claim you'd finished the game at that point - that was the point you were ready to **start** playing properly.

 

(Years ago I once read a fascinating article about what modern MMOs could be like if Blizzard had chosen to copy Ultima Online instead of Everquest when making World of Warcraft, but sadly I've not been able to find it since.)

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> LOL at people that think getting to 80 is all there is,

 

It clearly isn't "all". The first time I saw a level 80 character in-game was just about exactly 200 hours of elapsed real-world wall-clock time after the game opened(1), when the vast majority of what we have now didn't even exist in the game.

 

(1) People asked in-game how long it had taken. It turned out that he had spent a hundred of those 200 hours in-game.

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > LOL at people that think getting to 80 is all there is,

>

> It clearly isn't "all". The first time I saw a level 80 character in-game was just about exactly 200 hours of elapsed real-world wall-clock time after the game opened(1), when the vast majority of what we have now didn't even exist in the game.

>

> (1) People asked in-game how long it had taken. It turned out that he had spent a hundred of those 200 hours in-game.

 

Maybe I should change the wording - "LOL at people that think hitting 80 is all there is..."

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > LOL at people that think getting to 80 is all there is,

> >

> > It clearly isn't "all". The first time I saw a level 80 character in-game was just about exactly 200 hours of elapsed real-world wall-clock time after the game opened(1), when the vast majority of what we have now didn't even exist in the game.

> >

> > (1) People asked in-game how long it had taken. It turned out that he had spent a hundred of those 200 hours in-game.

>

> Maybe I should change the wording - "LOL at people that think hitting 80 is all there is..."

 

Your wording was fine. I was agreeing that it's a silly attitude, since that would have meant the game lasted less than eight and half days before its first "winner", while almost by definition, an MMORPG cannot have an overall winning player.

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > > > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > > LOL at people that think getting to 80 is all there is,

> > >

> > > It clearly isn't "all". The first time I saw a level 80 character in-game was just about exactly 200 hours of elapsed real-world wall-clock time after the game opened(1), when the vast majority of what we have now didn't even exist in the game.

> > >

> > > (1) People asked in-game how long it had taken. It turned out that he had spent a hundred of those 200 hours in-game.

> >

> > Maybe I should change the wording - "LOL at people that think hitting 80 is all there is..."

>

> Your wording was fine. I was agreeing that it's a silly attitude, since that would have meant the game lasted less than eight and half days before its first "winner", while almost by definition, an MMORPG cannot have an overall winning player.

 

ahh, ok, misunderstood - I have coffee in me now, so I'm fine lol

[Jarl Petter Hinrik.1409]

Sounds like a boring way to play. Glad to be a roleplayer. Takes years to get anything, but at least, it is fun! Only got my credit card for extra character slots!