Way Points in Enemy Home Keeps

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

Ok, So I've watched one of the other 2 Servers in EBG be spawn camped for 3 straight days now because of the terrible design decision that continues to allow a Side to fully upgrade an enemy's home keep and load it full of siege.

Not only must this be extremely demoralizing but it stifles competition by rewarding cowardice. Five years now and this still has not been addressed and it is long overdue. If you want to let them to build a million AC's,cannons, trebs, and ballistas whatever, it's your game but clearly being allowed to fully upgrade an Enemy Home Keep is an extremely poor example of fair game design.

As much as Alliance Battles were neglected in GW1....I am not surprised to see WvW get this type of inept design but it's time to do what's right and allow these people to get out of spawn.

Get It Right!

[Strider Pj.2193]

Three exits.

 

Spawn camping in this game is harder than in most.

 

The only thing that is 'home' is citadel and spawn, there is no actual home keep.

 

 

[Blodeuyn.2751]

We can do the same thing to the enemy keep so it is really not an issue of fairness. While it isn't fun to be overrun consistently by another server, this really isn't unfair, it sounds more like a population issue.

 

Though easier said than done, your server needs to stop the structures from upgrading. Also, there's more than one way out of spawn, unless all exits are being camped.

[Cerby.1069]

Yes lets not reward people for defending camps or escorting dollies or attacking highly defensible objectives. You realize how things get t3 now right? the DOLLLY has to walk allllll the way from the 2 camps......allllll the way up to the keeeeeeep. And they have to do that 80+40+20 = 140 TIMESSSS. AN EXTREMELLLY well organized (to the max) group can get that time down through superspeed and packed yaks which makes it yak 3x as fast. so 140 divided by 3. is.....something with a decimal, lets say 47. So in the extreme case you still need 47 of these normal speed yaks going from point a to be. Each trip is like 1 m inute 20 seconds for normal yak generally. So that's 47 +whatever minutes of extreme yak escorting and camp camping to get a keep to t3, this assumes no yaks die or get stalled and no camps flip and the camps are fully upgraded before the keep is capped.

 

How many minutes do you personally take during ur runs to go out of your way to solo escort/intercept yaks upgrading important things? That's what I thought.

 

Its a learn to play issue. If your upset your borderland doesn't do anything while ur not there.....well welcome to wvsw.

 

You got 3 exits from spawn, learn to use them. If people want to sit there and fight at spawn.....well its no different than watching a bunch of duelers play in the corner. AKA they chooose to do it, it takes 2 to spawn camp. YOu ever wonder why people spawn camp? Its rather brilliant really, cause the bulk of an enemy always tries to fight them off. Leaving the camps and dollies protected. THose things have to pass by infront of the keep afterall to get in, its extremely dangerous when the enemy spawn is so close. If someone is spawn camping and your bl is taking the bait....it just means you are getting outplayed. Its not a question of trolling, its strategic.

 

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

Funny how you want to justify a coward's style of game play. The simple fact remains...it stifles competition.

Has nothing to do with the number of exits from spawn or escorting supply.

It has everything to do with being a lame mechanic that encourages spawn camping for days on end and ultimately leads to fewer and fewer players in wvw.

End Upgrading of Enemy Home Keeps in EBG. It is 5 years overdue and has been sorely needed for a long time. You can stop crying though, Anet has never really cared about making wvw competitive. Some of their game design decisions are laughable conceptually and certainly architecturally. The odds of them doing what is RIGHT for the wvw constituency are extremely remote.

 

[drkn.3429]

Since there are no thumbs down anymore, i respectfully but strongly disagree.

 

 

On cheeky note: are you new here?

 

On gamedev note: this is how the format is designed; it's NOT meant to be an open field mass PvP, contrary to what people would like to see in it, and objectives do play an important role, along with upgrading them, besieging them, retaking, defending, and whatnot.

 

On balance note: **spawncamping:** there are three exits from spawn; **upgraded EB keeps taken over by enemy:** build a treb right outside of your spawn and tear it down, it's easier to enter the keep from spawn-side; **looking for open-field fights and ignoring the objectives:** get into player-created GvG scene.

[ich.7086]

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> Funny how you want to justify a coward's style of game play.

Coward because they dared capture and upgrade the hardest objective from them and are fighting you to defend it ?

 

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> The simple fact remains...it stifles competition.

> Has nothing to do with the number of exits from spawn or escorting supply.

They invested time and resources to get this keep upgraded and full of siege. For a return that can be denied by clever play as said before. For competition to exist, all sides must try to win. If you don't play to win, it's not their fault for things being unequal but yours.

 

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> It has everything to do with being a lame mechanic that encourages spawn camping for days on end and ultimately leads to fewer and fewer players in wvw.

Moral war as always been a part of WvW. Try using counterplays cited above and move map, going into suicide every minute because you can't bother leaving EBG or using a side entry is stupidity as its finest.

 

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> End Upgrading of Enemy Home Keeps in EBG. It is 5 years overdue and has been sorely needed for a long time.

Seems you are alone here to think it's so needed.

 

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> You can stop crying though, Anet has never really cared about making wvw competitive.

WvW isn't balanced because Anet can't guarantee that every side has the same amount of resources (=people) at every time of the battle, only that they can commit up to a certain amount which is fixed and equal for every side. The only time WvW was really competitive was during seasons when they were queues h24 but then people complained about queues and left because burnout.

 

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> Some of their game design decisions are laughable conceptually and certainly architecturally. The odds of them doing what is RIGHT for the wvw constituency are extremely remote.

I'm not a game designer so I can't judge but the problem with WvW is that everyone want WvW to be tailored towards its needs and a solo roamer, a guild leader, a standard zergling or a scout will ask different things and those things are likely not to be compatible. There isn't **right** or **wrong** in WvW.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> Ok, So I've watched one of the other 2 Servers in EBG be spawn camped for 3 straight days now because of the terrible design decision that continues to allow a Side to fully upgrade an enemy's home keep and load it full of siege.

That sounds like interesting design to me. It gives you a powerful incentive to (a) not lose your keep and (b) take it back quickly if you do.

 

> Not only must this be extremely demoralizing

I'm sure it must be; that's how it feels when losing.

 

> but it stifles competition by rewarding cowardice.

Rewarding... cowardice? What does that even mean? Your opponent was rewarded for aggressive play and/or taking advantage of a lull on your side in EB. They were further rewarded by actively upgrading (which takes a while) and, according to you, load it full of siege (also takes time ... and is hard to maintain).

 

> Five years now and this still has not been addressed and it is long overdue.

It hasn't been addressed because it's not an issue. There are multiple exits and it's perfectly fair to take an opponent's keep; that's why they don't have invulnerable defenders.

 

> If you want to let them to build a million AC's,cannons, trebs, and ballistas whatever, it's your game but clearly being allowed to fully upgrade an Enemy Home Keep is an extremely poor example of fair game design.

How is it unfair? Your side was outplayed.

 

> I am not surprised to see WvW get this type of inept design but it's time to do what's right and allow these people to get out of spawn.

You might want to reconsider your rhetoric. If you think the developers are inept, what makes you think they'll do better in redesigning the mechanics to address this issue that you feel is both important & urgent? And if they aren't, how does it help your cause to call their design inept?

 

 

[Offair.2563]

Being spawn camped in eb and can't get out? Attack their garrison instead.

[Hesacon.8735]

> @Offair.2563 said:

> Being spawn camped in eb and can't get out? Attack their garrison instead.

 

Almost like there's four maps for a reason.

 

Could also play a stealth and movement heavy class, sneak past them, go contest their waypoints. I've seen people do this on thief, mesmer, and ranger for hours on end before.

[Baldrick.8967]

It's really a sheep issue. Without a dorito to follow a lot of people won't bother trying to some any sort of party or squad but will just moan that they can't get anything done...

 

Here's a thought. Grab some siege blueprints. Grab a couple of other players. Sneak around into their area, start catapulting their structures, flipping their camps, and generally being a pest. You probably won't reach tier 3 so won't earn any progress on rewards, but sooner or later thier zerg will have to come back to find you can kill you.

 

Then repeat. A small team can be very effective at flipping structures and draining towers of supplies as they have to repair that damage you did- and flip camps, kill dollies, and generally be a pain.

 

It can actually be great fun, just accept that every now and then your pixels will die.

[Jana.6831]

OP, let me tell you: Wvw was *much* better when it was political incorrect and 'unfair'. One of the unfair things is being able to upgrade an enemy keep. Getting back a T3 keep is one of the highlights of wvw, so let's keep it that un-pc.

 

ETA: A lot of what has been fun has already been removed. And anet chose the always laziest way when it came to these changes. Like being able to glide into OW as an enemy. What did they do? They added a mountain on top of the hill of OW instead of adding it to the ledge from which people were gliding in. You can argue that that doesn't make a difference but it does: OW's hill was strategically important. You could attack and defend the keep and Veloka from there. Not anymore. And bit by bit all strategical elements are being removed. An enemy keep isn't that strategical, granted. But hey, back in the day you could get OW, hold it and attack from there.

[Junkpile.7439]

Keep maps empty. It's boring camp in keep if nobody try to take it whole week. :D

[Jana.6831]

> @Junkpile.7439 said:

> Keep maps empty. It's boring camp in keep if nobody try to take it whole week. :D

 

You need your signature back.

[Loosmaster.8263]

As to your thread title, as far as I remember, other than it being T3 the waypoint is useless because it's permanently contested...

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Wtf, this forum doubled posted? Gg... D:

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

This is maguuma camping HoD keep in Ebg right? If so, the map isn't the main issue. That's just coverage... D:

 

For the "three exits" is not really true. Green side spawn's exits don't really end that far away from each other, and it would be reasonable for a Blob to easily camp it. The Blue side has probably best since the three exits are visibly distance from one another, and end with differing elevations to clip line of sight. Red side only really has two exits, one by Mendons, and the other two are roughly close to each other. P.S. HoD is Red, BG is Blue, and Mag is Green in this given instance.

 

But again, it was coverage that allowed it to happen. Not the map.

[Strider Pj.2193]

There might be close exits on EBG, but I think that there are what? Three more maps? I know that if you hit their keeps in a different map, they'll respond.

 

Deal with it.

 

It's not a 'cowards' play. Lmao...

[Israel.7056]

It's totally fair to be able to waypoint an enemy keep. I'm sure it's demoralizing but that's the point.

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

Clearly, very clearly, Being able to fire hundreds of rounds of siege per minute at an enemy spawn and maintain control of their home keep and utilize these tactics for 6+ days is indicative of a Broken Mechanic. It's unfair, uncalled for, and cowardly in my book. Disagree if you want. This post is solely for the 1-2 people at Anet that actually have the ability to address this concern. It is bad for the entire wvw community to allow this kind of Broken Mechanic exploitation to persist.

[LetoII.3782]

Quit with the late night ppt and you won't end up in a match you can't handle, problem solved.

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

> Clearly, very clearly, Being able to fire hundreds of rounds of siege per minute at an enemy spawn and maintain control of their home keep and utilize these tactics for 6+ days is indicative of a Broken Mechanic. It's unfair, uncalled for, and cowardly in my book. Disagree if you want. This post is solely for the 1-2 people at Anet that actually have the ability to address this concern. It is bad for the entire wvw community to allow this kind of Broken Mechanic exploitation to persist.

 

Please don't pretend to speak for 'the entire GW2 community'. You don't like it. I get it.

 

Waypointing an enemy keep is actually quite an impressive feat.

 

Broken mechanic exploitation? Really? Now you are just throwing phrases around.

 

If you can't get a small group out of spawn to mess with their stuff, or go to a different BL and take their stuff, then maybe next week will provide you a matchup more your speed.

[boolah.1325]

> @LetoII.3782 said:

> Quit with the late night ppt and you won't end up in a match you can't handle, problem solved.

>

 

Such an obnoxious post.. you seem to think everyone's prime time is the same as you.

 

HoD got punished for playing the game with multiple smaller groups when other servers blob and look for fights. HoD is a t4/3 server and should never have moved into t1, the K/D ratio over the past 2 weeks is a pretty obvious indication of this.

[Blodeuyn.2751]

Allowing the enemy to constantly take your home bl while you sit in ebg letting yourselves be spawn camped is a terrible choice all around.

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @boolah.1325 said:

> > @LetoII.3782 said:

> > Quit with the late night ppt and you won't end up in a match you can't handle, problem solved.

> >

>

> Such an obnoxious post.. you seem to think everyone's prime time is the same as you.

>

> HoD got punished for playing the game with multiple smaller groups when other servers blob and look for fights. HoD is a t4/3 server and should never have moved into t1, the K/D ratio over the past 2 weeks is a pretty obvious indication of this.

 

That's what I said.

The added verbosity is simply inefficient