Why is renegade not viable in pvp? Introducing a build and explaining how it works.

[phokus.8934]

The problem in my experience are the utilities die too quick. I just don't see the purpose of them not acting like spirit weapons+wells.

 

Maybe we'll see a Renegade rework that fixes some of the issues plaguing it where we can use it effectively in pvp.

[The Ace.9105]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> The problem in my experience are the utilities die too quick. I just don't see the purpose of them not acting like spirit weapons+wells.

>

> Maybe we'll see a Renegade rework that fixes some of the issues plaguing it where we can use it effectively in pvp.

 

The health pool could be a bit higher I agree on that but the summons aren't dying that much in the end with the target cap of 5.

[Buran.3796]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

 

> If you came to that conclusion I'd advice you to think outside the box and expand your way of building the renegade to be not so much of an dps/condi spec but focus more towards helping your allies in a form of cc, support and self sustain. You are not the person that downs the targets but your help will make it much easier for your allies.

>

> I'd like to encourage ppl to think creatively but I higly doubt that will happen so I am thinking of bringing back the explanation and rotation of the build that this topic was at first.

 

Why I would want to be a bad copy of a Firebrand instead of just playing a Firebrand? Why to struggle self sustaining my self instead of just playing a Spellbreaker? Is like training for months a chihuahua for a greyhound race: at the end, is just a chihuahua.

 

If the developers wanted the Renegade to be competitive in PvP they would have provide us tools for that task. Instead, Kalla and the short bow aren't bad for PvP: they are borderline insulting. Why sugarcoating it? Playing a Renegade doesn't help your allies, forces your team's Firebrand to split his nursing between your Renegade and the Scourge, and if He needs to chose, will help the Scourge because is the one which carries the nukes. I did play my fisrt 50 ranked matches last season as a Renegade: was detrimental. Then up to ~180 swapped to Herald again and the experiemce was way better (did play also DH during three weeks of the swap legend debacle, tho).

[Milan.9035]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"The Ace.9105" said:

>

> > If you came to that conclusion I'd advice you to think outside the box and expand your way of building the renegade to be not so much of an dps/condi spec but focus more towards helping your allies in a form of cc, support and self sustain. You are not the person that downs the targets but your help will make it much easier for your allies.

> >

> > I'd like to encourage ppl to think creatively but I higly doubt that will happen so I am thinking of bringing back the explanation and rotation of the build that this topic was at first.

>

> Why I would want to be a bad copy of a Firebrand instead of just playing a Firebrand? Why to struggle self sustaining my self instead of just playing a Spellbreaker? Is like training for months a chihuahua for a greyhound race: at the end, is just a chihuahua.

>

> If the developers wanted the Renegade to be competitive in PvP they would have provide us tools for that task. Instead, Kalla and the short bow aren't bad for PvP: they are borderline insulting. Why sugarcoating it? Playing a Renegade doesn't help your allies, forces your team's Firebrand to split his nursing between your Renegade and the Scourge, and if He needs to chose, will help the Scourge because is the one which carries the nukes. I did play my fisrt 50 ranked matches last season as a Renegade: was detrimental. Then up to ~180 swapped to Herald again and the experiemce was way better (did play also DH during three weeks of the swap legend debacle, tho).

 

 

Said very well.

 

[The Ace.9105]

@"Dace.8173" :

@"Milan.9035" :

@"Buran.3796" :

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054":

@"ScottBroChill.3254":

 

Since you are so good at thinking creatively and making builds I thought that maybe I should explain the build and how you play the build.

 

Now I don't expect you to be successful with this build especially you @"Buran.3796" maybe you too @"Milan.9035" since it requires some energy management that can be harder to pull off sometimes.

 

I still hope this helps.

 

For @"messiah.1908" you understand more about the mechanics so here is a build for you that you can try if you want.

 

Here is the build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmnvNWMT6JvmRVlZzsrytZYWZ3MYs8bmFZliNGyhf4PCvwOUNAWgHA-jZxHQBK7EAIu9HGZZgEeEAAwjAAA

 

Your job: As I said earlier focus more towards helping your allies in a form of cc, support and self sustain. You are not the person that downs the targets but your help will make it much easier for your allies. Help as much as you can but prioritize your own survivability. Don't keep upkeeps if you are about to die. Cleave downed targets and help with ressing allies. You can decap certain classes and hold points in 1v1 also. Hardest part of this build is to get the charged mists proc every swap but with practice you'll get used to it. With vigor, extra 25% endurance regen, double energy sigils and charged mists extra energy shiro you'll dodge a lot. When you use an ability that costs energy you'll also gain swiftness so you can activate/deactivate upkeep skills and get permanent swiftness from rapid flow trait while outside of combat. During combat you'll get the swiftness anyway.

 

Rotation 1 bunkering on point: Start with kalla + 2x sword, get in combat, use skills 9 and 8 and swap to shiro(if having trouble casting the skills to reduce your energy at or under 10 dodge an attack first to gain stability from unwavering avoidance), with 75 energy on shiro you should be fine holding the point, use heal skill on shiro for extra damage and lifesteal, when swap starts to be ready use your energy until it's 10 or below and swap to kalla, use skills 9, 8, 0 and 6 if you need extra healing, do remember that the elite skill heals you from every hit you do against a target (this combo does a lot of damage if the enemy can't get out of it usually ending up downing the target also you will heal and tank a lot if the enemy is trying to kill you inside the area), when under or at 10 energy swap to shiro and repeat. Orders from above f4 helps with cooldowns and you can use it pretty effectively to get your energy under 10. Also if you can you can get 10 might from heroic command f2 skill if you want more damage.

 

Remember to wait for the opportunity to use your sword 4 and 5 main damage skills. You should be fine in terms of survivability with all the dodges you have.

 

Rotation 2 mid fight/mobility: Start with shiro + staff, if you are being targeted you can dodge the burst and use skills 3 and 5 with staff to stay alive, after surviving if getting bursted swap to kalla. If not getting bursted you can help with bursting the target, the important thing is that you'll have to use your energy to 10 or under, swap to kalla, use skills 9, 8, 0 and 6 on point to cleave downed/help with ress/support, cc, damage buff from elite, when your energy is at 10 or under, swap to shiro and help with damage/survive use orders from above f4 to share aoe alacrity and heroic command f2 to share might if you are fine, when at 10 energy or under swap and repeat.

 

Rotation 2 is like the general rotation for this build and you can do fine while using it pretty much every time.

 

Remember that while using kalla elite upkeep avoid using other energy based skills if enemies/allies are in the area doing damage. If you have enough energy and sword 4 ready you can use it to help with burst but otherwise use auto for dps.

 

With avatar amulet the healing skill from renegade heals 5.3k self + 7.86k aoe. Healing with elite (the elite skill doesn't have cooldown on lifesteal effect) and using renegade heal skill just before the swap gives you that 5.3k and with dodges you can avoid the majority of damage and get the 7.86k regen from the aoe heal. Also within the heal area you take -50% condition damage and with righteous rebel trait the damage you take from conditions gets reduced by 35% so the total amount of condition damage reduction is -85% while in the area. Remember that every time you use renegade summoning skill you also share protection and can use kalla elite to share protection and gain swiftness from rapid flow when running with teammates.

[Dace.8173]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> @"Dace.8173" :

> @"Milan.9035" :

> @"Buran.3796" :

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054":

> @"ScottBroChill.3254":

>

> Since you are so good at thinking creatively and making builds I thought that maybe I should explain the build and how you play the build.

>

> Now I don't expect you to be successful with this build especially you @"Buran.3796" maybe you too @"Milan.9035" since it requires some energy management that can be harder to pull off sometimes.

>

 

Dude, there seriously was no reason for you to insult people just because they don't agree with you. You asked a question and you just don't like the answer. We were having a fairly pleasant conversation until you decided to make things personal. You clearly don't like what determines viability for an Elite. None of this has anything to do with creativity in build design. Viable builds are always about what benefits the most people. You haven't even established that your build works under the conditions that determine Elite viability, namely the ability for other people to take your build and have it work for them too. If you really think Renegade is viable and your build is the one that can prove it, then post it on metabattle so that other people can play it and see if it actually works for them or not. Talk to some of the top Revenant players and get them to use your build in high-end competitive play. Make Youtube videos of your build in action and then leave commits for how the build works. Go over to SC and have them run the numbers on your build and test it out.

 

However, insulting people is not going to make Renegade viable in PvP. With that said, I am done with you. If you can't defend your position without resorting to ad hom attacks then there is nothing worth discussing. Feel free to respond but I won't be checking back in to see what you have to say.

 

 

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" :

> > @"Milan.9035" :

> > @"Buran.3796" :

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054":

> > @"ScottBroChill.3254":

> >

> > Since you are so good at thinking creatively and making builds I thought that maybe I should explain the build and how you play the build.

> >

> > Now I don't expect you to be successful with this build especially you @"Buran.3796" maybe you too @"Milan.9035" since it requires some energy management that can be harder to pull off sometimes.

> >

>

> Dude, there seriously was no reason for you to insult people just because they don't agree with you. You asked a question and you just don't like the answer. We were having a fairly pleasant conversation until you decided to make things personal. You clearly don't like what determines viability for an Elite. None of this has anything to do with creativity in build design. Viable builds are always about what benefits the most people. You haven't even established that your build works under the conditions that determine Elite viability, namely the ability for other people to take your build and have it work for them too. If you really think Renegade is viable and your build is the one that can prove it, then post it on metabattle so that other people can play it and see if it actually works for them or not. Talk to some of the top Revenant players and get them to use your build in high-end competitive play. Make Youtube videos of your build in action and then leave commits for how the build works. Go over to SC and have them run the numbers on your build and test it out.

>

> However, insulting people is not going to make Renegade viable in PvP. With that said, I am done with you. If you can't defend your position without resorting to ad hom attacks then there is nothing worth discussing. Feel free to respond but I won't be checking back in to see what you have to say.

>

>

 

Now you are taking the full on social justice warrior/social media storm route here and for me personally it's a hostile act to make something look like something else than it is. You could have maybe first asked what was the purpose of that part of the post or read the posts before that post to get a better understanding of how I could have reacted the way I reacted in that post before jumping to conclusion on "personal attacks" cause that's what you are doing to me right now in the form of being a victim for others.

 

> @Buran.3796 said:

> Renegade lacks defensive/mobility tools and no, is not even close to Herals in terms of survability (and way worse in terms of burst damage, and AoE cleave and cc).

 

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> If you came to that conclusion I'd advice you to think outside the box and expand your way of building the renegade to be not so much of an dps/condi spec but focus more towards helping your allies in a form of cc, support and self sustain. You are not the person that downs the targets but your help will make it much easier for your allies.

>

> I'd like to encourage ppl to think creatively but I higly doubt that will happen so I am thinking of bringing back the explanation and rotation of the build that this topic was at first.

>

> @Buran.3796 said:

> Why I would want to be a bad copy of a Firebrand instead of just playing a Firebrand? Why to struggle self sustaining my self instead of just playing a Spellbreaker? Is like training for months a chihuahua for a greyhound race: at the end, is just a chihuahua.

>

> If the developers wanted the Renegade to be competitive in PvP they would have provide us tools for that task. Instead, Kalla and the short bow aren't bad for PvP: they are borderline insulting. Why sugarcoating it? Playing a Renegade doesn't help your allies, forces your team's Firebrand to split his nursing between your Renegade and the Scourge, and if He needs to chose, will help the Scourge because is the one which carries the nukes. I did play my fisrt 50 ranked matches last season as a Renegade: was detrimental. Then up to ~180 swapped to Herald again and the experiemce was way better (did play also DH during three weeks of the swap legend debacle, tho).

 

 

The part where I was very mildly "attacking" Buran is a response to the tone that his post had and Milan is a maybe because he hasn't posted anything to this topic other than agreeing with Burans rude post.

 

 

The tone of the rest of the post is neutral and informative. Yes the first sentence might be considered to be arrogant maybe but there's no personal attacks in the post. I tagged you all to this post because I wanted you to get a forum notification about the build so you can try it. I hope that the way I explained the build can get it work for the others but based on the comments and how good people are in pvp based on my experience I don't expect that you'll get it to work for you. The build is very energy management based and it can be hard to handle for some people.

 

I don't know if you live in america but if you do not everyone has english as their main language or live in america where drama and acting as a victim is more common and acceptable for what I have heard.

 

I don't want this thread to get deleted so if you are done with me because of what you said I did then fine that's your decision. Otherwise let's stay on the topic. I want to heard your opinion about the build instead and if you could/couldn't get it to work for you and the reason you think is the problem of the build.

[narcx.3570]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> @"Dace.8173" :

> @"Milan.9035" :

> @"Buran.3796" :

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054":

> @"ScottBroChill.3254":

>

> Since you are so good at thinking creatively and making builds I thought that maybe I should explain the build and how you play the build.

>

> Now I don't expect you to be successful with this build especially you @"Buran.3796" maybe you too @"Milan.9035" since it requires some energy management that can be harder to pull off sometimes.

>

 

hahahahahaha, mad rev shade.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" :

> > > @"Milan.9035" :

> > > @"Buran.3796" :

> > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054":

> > > @"ScottBroChill.3254":

> > >

> > > Since you are so good at thinking creatively and making builds I thought that maybe I should explain the build and how you play the build.

> > >

> > > Now I don't expect you to be successful with this build especially you @"Buran.3796" maybe you too @"Milan.9035" since it requires some energy management that can be harder to pull off sometimes.

> > >

> >

> > Dude, there seriously was no reason for you to insult people just because they don't agree with you. You asked a question and you just don't like the answer. We were having a fairly pleasant conversation until you decided to make things personal. You clearly don't like what determines viability for an Elite. None of this has anything to do with creativity in build design. Viable builds are always about what benefits the most people. You haven't even established that your build works under the conditions that determine Elite viability, namely the ability for other people to take your build and have it work for them too. If you really think Renegade is viable and your build is the one that can prove it, then post it on metabattle so that other people can play it and see if it actually works for them or not. Talk to some of the top Revenant players and get them to use your build in high-end competitive play. Make Youtube videos of your build in action and then leave commits for how the build works. Go over to SC and have them run the numbers on your build and test it out.

> >

> > However, insulting people is not going to make Renegade viable in PvP. With that said, I am done with you. If you can't defend your position without resorting to ad hom attacks then there is nothing worth discussing. Feel free to respond but I won't be checking back in to see what you have to say.

> >

> >

>

> Now you are taking the full on social justice warrior/social media storm route here and for me personally it's a hostile act to make something look like something else than it is. You could have maybe first asked what was the purpose of that part of the post or read the posts before that post to get a better understanding of how I could have reacted the way I reacted in that post before jumping to conclusion on "personal attacks" cause that's what you are doing to me right now in the form of being a victim for others.

>

> > @Buran.3796 said:

> > Renegade lacks defensive/mobility tools and no, is not even close to Herals in terms of survability (and way worse in terms of burst damage, and AoE cleave and cc).

>

> > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > If you came to that conclusion I'd advice you to think outside the box and expand your way of building the renegade to be not so much of an dps/condi spec but focus more towards helping your allies in a form of cc, support and self sustain. You are not the person that downs the targets but your help will make it much easier for your allies.

> >

> > I'd like to encourage ppl to think creatively but I higly doubt that will happen so I am thinking of bringing back the explanation and rotation of the build that this topic was at first.

> >

> > @Buran.3796 said:

> > Why I would want to be a bad copy of a Firebrand instead of just playing a Firebrand? Why to struggle self sustaining my self instead of just playing a Spellbreaker? Is like training for months a chihuahua for a greyhound race: at the end, is just a chihuahua.

> >

> > If the developers wanted the Renegade to be competitive in PvP they would have provide us tools for that task. Instead, Kalla and the short bow aren't bad for PvP: they are borderline insulting. Why sugarcoating it? Playing a Renegade doesn't help your allies, forces your team's Firebrand to split his nursing between your Renegade and the Scourge, and if He needs to chose, will help the Scourge because is the one which carries the nukes. I did play my fisrt 50 ranked matches last season as a Renegade: was detrimental. Then up to ~180 swapped to Herald again and the experiemce was way better (did play also DH during three weeks of the swap legend debacle, tho).

>

>

> The part where I was very mildly "attacking" Buran is a response to the tone that his post had and Milan is a maybe because he hasn't posted anything to this topic other than agreeing with Burans rude post.

>

>

> The tone of the rest of the post is neutral and informative. Yes the first sentence might be considered to be arrogant maybe but there's no personal attacks in the post. I tagged you all to this post because I wanted you to get a forum notification about the build so you can try it. I hope that the way I explained the build can get it work for the others but based on the comments and how good people are in pvp based on my experience I don't expect that you'll get it to work for you. The build is very energy management based and it can be hard to handle for some people.

>

> I don't know if you live in america but if you do not everyone has english as their main language or live in america where drama and acting as a victim is more common and acceptable for what I have heard.

>

> I don't want this thread to get deleted so if you are done with me because of what you said I did then fine that's your decision. Otherwise let's stay on the topic. I want to heard your opinion about the build instead and if you could/couldn't get it to work for you and the reason you think is the problem of the build.

 

Dude, I play renegade a lot in pvp. Its fun but it gets torn apart even in upper gold. It depends on the rest of the comp being very selfsustaining and high in dps. The renegade has to play in the back and really you're only bringing the interupt summon and some heals. The heals and lifesteal are good, and the interupt is great for area control, but you will get torn up the second someone notices what you're doing. If no one notices or goes after you, then you are playing against bad players, or the rest of your team is so good that they can't focus on you because the mesmer, ranger or necro are more of a threat. Not having glint is going to reduce your ability to stay in the fight. Kalla is great for bunkering down, but not for forever and it wont bring any damage unless you're fighting bad enemies that stay in the summons. Necros also run rampant in pvp so there is a lot of fear being tossed around that just absolutely lay waste to summons. You can play it simalarly to shiro/glint, but it wont be as good at 1v1's, you can play it with either jalis or centaur too, but then you are very immobile and aren't the best healer/tank/bunker in the meta.

 

Really the problem is it's ability to carry. If the build has no potential to carry than it isn't necessarily that good in terms of competitive play. this is a total utility spec even tho it brings decent damage, it depends on too many factors other than your own playing ability. Against a good team you'll be kiting and unable to even contest points without getting slaughtered. If your team is good then this build can shine pretty decently, but its too conditional.

[The Ace.9105]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" :

> > > > @"Milan.9035" :

> > > > @"Buran.3796" :

> > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054":

> > > > @"ScottBroChill.3254":

> > > >

> > > > Since you are so good at thinking creatively and making builds I thought that maybe I should explain the build and how you play the build.

> > > >

> > > > Now I don't expect you to be successful with this build especially you @"Buran.3796" maybe you too @"Milan.9035" since it requires some energy management that can be harder to pull off sometimes.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Dude, there seriously was no reason for you to insult people just because they don't agree with you. You asked a question and you just don't like the answer. We were having a fairly pleasant conversation until you decided to make things personal. You clearly don't like what determines viability for an Elite. None of this has anything to do with creativity in build design. Viable builds are always about what benefits the most people. You haven't even established that your build works under the conditions that determine Elite viability, namely the ability for other people to take your build and have it work for them too. If you really think Renegade is viable and your build is the one that can prove it, then post it on metabattle so that other people can play it and see if it actually works for them or not. Talk to some of the top Revenant players and get them to use your build in high-end competitive play. Make Youtube videos of your build in action and then leave commits for how the build works. Go over to SC and have them run the numbers on your build and test it out.

> > >

> > > However, insulting people is not going to make Renegade viable in PvP. With that said, I am done with you. If you can't defend your position without resorting to ad hom attacks then there is nothing worth discussing. Feel free to respond but I won't be checking back in to see what you have to say.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Now you are taking the full on social justice warrior/social media storm route here and for me personally it's a hostile act to make something look like something else than it is. You could have maybe first asked what was the purpose of that part of the post or read the posts before that post to get a better understanding of how I could have reacted the way I reacted in that post before jumping to conclusion on "personal attacks" cause that's what you are doing to me right now in the form of being a victim for others.

> >

> > > @Buran.3796 said:

> > > Renegade lacks defensive/mobility tools and no, is not even close to Herals in terms of survability (and way worse in terms of burst damage, and AoE cleave and cc).

> >

> > > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > > If you came to that conclusion I'd advice you to think outside the box and expand your way of building the renegade to be not so much of an dps/condi spec but focus more towards helping your allies in a form of cc, support and self sustain. You are not the person that downs the targets but your help will make it much easier for your allies.

> > >

> > > I'd like to encourage ppl to think creatively but I higly doubt that will happen so I am thinking of bringing back the explanation and rotation of the build that this topic was at first.

> > >

> > > @Buran.3796 said:

> > > Why I would want to be a bad copy of a Firebrand instead of just playing a Firebrand? Why to struggle self sustaining my self instead of just playing a Spellbreaker? Is like training for months a chihuahua for a greyhound race: at the end, is just a chihuahua.

> > >

> > > If the developers wanted the Renegade to be competitive in PvP they would have provide us tools for that task. Instead, Kalla and the short bow aren't bad for PvP: they are borderline insulting. Why sugarcoating it? Playing a Renegade doesn't help your allies, forces your team's Firebrand to split his nursing between your Renegade and the Scourge, and if He needs to chose, will help the Scourge because is the one which carries the nukes. I did play my fisrt 50 ranked matches last season as a Renegade: was detrimental. Then up to ~180 swapped to Herald again and the experiemce was way better (did play also DH during three weeks of the swap legend debacle, tho).

> >

> >

> > The part where I was very mildly "attacking" Buran is a response to the tone that his post had and Milan is a maybe because he hasn't posted anything to this topic other than agreeing with Burans rude post.

> >

> >

> > The tone of the rest of the post is neutral and informative. Yes the first sentence might be considered to be arrogant maybe but there's no personal attacks in the post. I tagged you all to this post because I wanted you to get a forum notification about the build so you can try it. I hope that the way I explained the build can get it work for the others but based on the comments and how good people are in pvp based on my experience I don't expect that you'll get it to work for you. The build is very energy management based and it can be hard to handle for some people.

> >

> > I don't know if you live in america but if you do not everyone has english as their main language or live in america where drama and acting as a victim is more common and acceptable for what I have heard.

> >

> > I don't want this thread to get deleted so if you are done with me because of what you said I did then fine that's your decision. Otherwise let's stay on the topic. I want to heard your opinion about the build instead and if you could/couldn't get it to work for you and the reason you think is the problem of the build.

>

> Dude, I play renegade a lot in pvp. Its fun but it gets torn apart even in upper gold. It depends on the rest of the comp being very selfsustaining and high in dps. The renegade has to play in the back and really you're only bringing the interupt summon and some heals. The heals and lifesteal are good, and the interupt is great for area control, but you will get torn up the second someone notices what you're doing. If no one notices or goes after you, then you are playing against bad players, or the rest of your team is so good that they can't focus on you because the mesmer, ranger or necro are more of a threat. Not having glint is going to reduce your ability to stay in the fight. Kalla is great for bunkering down, but not for forever and it wont bring any damage unless you're fighting bad enemies that stay in the summons. Necros also run rampant in pvp so there is a lot of fear being tossed around that just absolutely lay waste to summons. You can play it simalarly to shiro/glint, but it wont be as good at 1v1's, you can play it with either jalis or centaur too, but then you are very immobile and aren't the best healer/tank/bunker in the meta.

>

> Really the problem is it's ability to carry. If the build has no potential to carry than it isn't necessarily that good in terms of competitive play. this is a total utility spec even tho it brings decent damage, it depends on too many factors other than your own playing ability. Against a good team you'll be kiting and unable to even contest points without getting slaughtered. If your team is good then this build can shine pretty decently, but its too conditional.

 

Is this about renegade in general or the build I posted?

 

If it's about the build then yes it's not a facerolling build and it takes time to learn to play it properly. Timing the charged mists proc for every swap is challenging sometimes. Ofc if you are about to die while waiting for the energy to get low enough you'll be forced to swap without the proc and then you'll have to manage with less amount of energy but if you learn to play the build correctly it's not that big of an issue in the end.

 

The sustain with all the dodges, condi reduction and regen is way better compared to herald and in conquest most of the fights happen on point so you'll be covering it with kalla making the enemy to avoid the center area of the fighting area. If the do enter they'll get cc'd and receive a lot of damage.

 

The build can in most cases decap the point and hold that long enough for your allies to come help you or you to full cap it. To do this you basically just avoid damage and bait enemy cc skills and after cast summons to aoe the point and the enemy is forced to leave the point for the time of the summons.

 

In terms of team balance I noticed that I was at least as useless on renegade as I was on herald when I had a bad team. There wasn't a lot to do on both specs when your allies insta die to something and have weird rotations engaging 1v3 and stuff. Also herald can basically only play the +1 role in higher end since the build doesn't have a protection source anymore due to the rework.

 

There have been many times where the enemy is trying to focus me and they are basically just wasting time and getting our target killed because I can dodge so many of their bursts and they don't peel the burst that's coming to our target. When the target is down they realize the situation and try to ress and then you'll cc and burst with kalla summons.

 

My advice is to be patient and practice and learn the build.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

>

> Is this about renegade in general or the build I posted?

>

> If it's about the build then yes it's not a facerolling build and it takes time to learn to play it properly. Timing the charged mists proc for every swap is challenging sometimes. Ofc if you are about to die while waiting for the energy to get low enough you'll be forced to swap without the proc and then you'll have to manage with less amount of energy but if you learn to play the build correctly it's not that big of an issue in the end.

 

Dude this is basically identical to the build I play dude. That's what I'm saying, I've been using it a lot before this post and I know its ins and outs. My only differences are I use the retaliation on dodge and steadfast rejuvination or vicious reprisal sometimes instead. So don't go around talking like you discorvered gold when hundreds of other revs have already tried this. The problem is you'll get to a certain point in ranked where the build just stopped working. No one is going to let you use it and they will target you down real fast. I'm not saying it isn't decent, it is decent. But all the stuff it brings isn't necessary in pvp, and what you sacrifice for it isn't worth it.

 

>

> The sustain with all the dodges, condi reduction and regen is way better compared to herald and in conquest most of the fights happen on point so you'll be covering it with kalla making the enemy to avoid the center area of the fighting area. If the do enter they'll get cc'd and receive a lot of damage.

 

Not having glints heal and stun breaker actually is a lot worse. I mean with this build your forced to bring the extra 25 energy on <10 swap which of course ruins the crit chance bonus. Sorry thats not about healing, but thats the trade-off you're making, along with pre-might stacking which isnt a problem, but then you have to trait for it if you want it and so its another trade-off. And yeah you can put summons on points, and then the enemy waits while pegging you from 1200 meters away and then when ur energy and summons are wasted they come in.

 

>

> The build can in most cases decap the point and hold that long enough for your allies to come help you or you to full cap it. To do this you basically just avoid damage and bait enemy cc skills and after cast summons to aoe the point and the enemy is forced to leave the point for the time of the summons.

 

If the player is good, and now the e specs are shown in pvp, then the person should know not to blow their cc on you. Again, dependent on bad play. and a good player will mostly kite, but wont disengage. They'll widdle down your health and defenses from range.

 

>

> In terms of team balance I noticed that I was at least as useless on renegade as I was on herald when I had a bad team. There wasn't a lot to do on both specs when your allies insta die to something and have weird rotations engaging 1v3 and stuff. Also herald can basically only play the +1 role in higher end since the build doesn't have a protection source anymore due to the rework.

 

Idk at least with herald I can go and pick targets. But in terms of teamfights, I still think scourge would be better. So much cc and damage its definitely more worthwhile than the renegade in most cases.

 

>

> There have been many times where the enemy is trying to focus me and they are basically just wasting time and getting our target killed because I can dodge so many of their bursts and they don't peel the burst that's coming to our target. When the target is down they realize the situation and try to ress and then you'll cc and burst with kalla summons.

 

Again, these are players who have no idea what you're playing and they don't know what to do. The reason it works so well is because no one plays it enough to realize what it does. The reason you are stomping people is because people aren't leaving the area of interrupt. Its why I ALSO do so well with the build, but I'm aware enough to realize this isn't necessarily a strength of the class and more so a strength of mine to use things that people aren't expecting me to do. People see summons but they might not even be sure whatr each one does, or can tell them apart on the field. They no they should avoid them, but probably don't know that one of them is keeping them from using skills. If some kid burns their hands on a stove is the stove real strong and scary, or is the kid just not that smart?? That's basically what this is.

>

> My advice is to be patient and practice and learn the build.

 

I'm patient, I know it works well against people who don't know it. But you can't be so ignorant to the fact that this build doesn't have the tools needed for high levels of play. The nature of it doesn't allow for it. Herald provides more outplay ability and carry potential. Necro and FB are a much better support combo than Renegade+whatever. And renegade needs a +1. Renegade is my main. Rev is basically all I play in pvp when I'm not re-learning other classes. Your complete lack of any critiscism of your own build is just a little infuriating. Look I like the build and its fun, but you gotta be honest with yourself about it. Its basically a pubstomper build that doesn't really pubstomp since it still needs team support.

 

EDIT: What I will say is that if we could do 5-man premade team comps then I would actually justify it being a high tier build. If you could make a team build that it could compliment then it would be great. Its just the random factors of team composition and team skill/coordination that knock it down a bit. More so than normal builds due to its supporting nature.

[The Ace.9105]

Currently r73 in EU with renegade. Will see how well the build performs during this season. Have to remember tho that balance patch can change everything.

 

Also have to do my placements in NA.