Taking GW2 pvp for granted

[Accountzeroone.7291]

I have complained about some core designs of GW2 before on the forums, like how much of the class design dynamics, and core gameplay aspecs, such as CC and what not have ignored lessons of the past in mmorpg PVP design, but in the end when all is said and done, GW2 probably has some of the best pvp MMORPGS have ever had, and from the way things are looking, ever will.

 

I just took a visit back to some contemporary MMORPGS on some private servers and.... lord god... comparing them to GW2 pvp is like comparing a stick man drawing to the Mona Lisa.

 

As much as i hate CC with a burning passion, it is nowhere near as bad in GW2 as it was in WoW and it's clones.

I tried a WOTLK server, and not only did it not have immunity timers... what few stun breaks it had seemed to be for specific abilities, and they were on timers that were like 2 minutes. I heard it had diminishing returns... I kept getting charmed over and over again with no noticable reduction. my character would literally randomly pace around for about 10 seconds, then he would get recharmed and randomly pace around for 10 more seconds. My first max level open pvp experience consisted of being stunned by a druid, him getting in about 6 hits while the stun lasted about 6 seconds, then when i recovered, i had about 10 percent health left, and i was immediately rooted, and died before i could get a single hit off. I looked on the forums for modern WoW and people are still complaining about all the CC in 2018.

 

Then, there's Warhammer Online. I have never seen a game where personal skill is actively punished. After playing it for about 2 years it has got to be the worst pvp i have ever played in my life. It has this idiotic system, to where, yes immunity timers exist, but there's like 2 different immunity timers for hard CC; knockbacks and stuns are considered different things. Then it has this permanent melee snare to where you are perpetually walking at 40 percent throughout the entire pvp match, it doesn't break on damage, and when you get rid of it with a 60 second cooldown skill (which works with no other form of CC) you get snared again right after. Melee classes have no gap closers, ranged classes can snare with their normal ranged attack, and they can attack while moving... Lol no wonder Warhammer died, it is literally a caraciture of everything everyone hated about DAOC yet it was made by the same company and DAOC was made 7 years before Warhammer was!

In DAOC, people hated how powerful ranged classes were in proportion to melee, in Warhammer it's roughly 2x as worse

In DAOC, people hated how ranged classes had hard CC; they thought it was imbalanced on ranged classes. In Warhammer not only does every single ranged class have hard CC, it seems to land 100 percent of the time on some classes, and it lasts 10 years.

The game has no stunbreak... you have to eat every single CC you take, and 90 percent of the time, you are dead before it wears off. that means it's more crude and archaic than DAOC; even daoc had a stun break skill, yet in warhammmer the TTK is like twice as low as DAOC (almost as low as GW2, which is strange for an old MMO)

In Warhammer, plays that involve individual skill are completly useless if you are grouped, while fighting another group; the only thing that matters in the game, is focus fire, and focus healing... that's it; he who is on voice chat in a premade automatically wins. I have never seen a game facilitate premades like Warhammer Online did; in GW2, you can use personal skill to kick the !@#$ out of a premade... given that personal skill in warhammer is actively punished... you can't.

Another example of how personal skill is punished; if melee snares didn't exist in warhammer, a melee could outplay 3-4 other melees who are currently fighting him, and have a chance of taking someone with him before he dies.... that perma melee snare completely nullifies that; all 3-4 of your enemy combatants will keep you permasnared while circling around you, while you struggle to even snare one since the snare is usually parried, and on a 5 second timer.

 

Look up "healhammer online": Healers in warhammer are the worst design i have ever seen, I AM SO thankful GW2 has no hardlined healers to speak of. in DAOC healers were fairly squishy, and had to be peeled, here they are immortal tanks, who can withstand the damage of 2-4 people, either indefinatley, or for 5+ minutes, thus defeating the entire existence of the 'tank' archetype. Arch mages are the worst of the moronic "jack of all trades, master of everything" dynamic that noob-hammer online had; they are literally a dps, tank, and healer in one class that does it 90 - 100 percent as good as the hardlined non-hybrid archetypes.

 

Mythic applied no objective lessons at all they learned from DAOC even though they said they would; I heard the people who made Warhammer Online were new to design and PVP and were merely WoW fans; my question is, why did the senior mythic designers, who were supervising the project let it happen? Also, from what i'm reading on the Camelot Unchained website... it sounds like they want to bring back some of this garbage... It is plainly stated they decided to bring back rock-paper-scissors instead of balanced classes. After reading that, i begin to question just how behind the times City State (the mythic remnants) is.

 

Rock-paper-scissors:

Ah, you're class X, I'm class Y, so let me sit down while you kill me.

 

They also sound proud of their archaic mindset: "Out with balanced classes, in with rock-paper-scissors!" as if that's a positive thing, rather than a byproduct of lazy class design on limited budges, with limited technology.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they want to bring back more archaic, un-evolved mythic idiocy:

Hey, I'm a ranged class, I'm squishy, therefore i have the right to one shot you from 1,000 feet away. Is another bit of arcahic, arbitrary, biased mythic-ish dark-age-of-castalot design.

 

GW2 devs are lightyears ahead of mythic in game design philosophy:

Ranged attacks incur inherently less risk, and are in general easier to pull off, therefore they do less damage, no matter how squishy, or tanky you are while using ranged attacks.

(at least that's the way it was before POF ;-)

 

Unlike 90 percent of mmorpgs i have played, the gw2 devs have at least *tried* to balance the classes, and they are more balanced, all in all, than any other mmorpg i have ever played to an extent. I heard a user on the CU wiki say they wanted to bring back platemail wearing tank healers. ugh.... perhaps the senior mythic devs were responsible for some of noob-hammers bad design after all... i think it's safe to say in a dying genre, GW2 pvp is going to be the last MMO pvp that wasn't total garbage, it will probably be superior to everything that comes out after it, as it was everything that came before it, for the most part.

[Gamble.4580]

Gw2 is the best pvp game out there for 5v5 for sure no1 will say it’s not, problem is people get board of same game when playing for years and if they just keep adding new pve and not pvp for the spvp they will loose more people over time than gain in this area. But I gues the reason for this is pvp was always ment to be wvw and spvp was a guild mission never ment to be the place the die hard pvp fans stuck to. If they add more game modes and more leader boards for class guild teams duo many of them they will bring in allot more part time players to game who wants a pick up play pvp game.

[witcher.3197]

GW2 = best combat, worst balance. Good foundations doesn't mean anything if they keep shoveling shit on it.

[tinyreborn.1938]

A well written wall . I enjoyed it ;)

[Accountzeroone.7291]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> GW2 = best combat, worst balance. Good foundations doesn't mean anything if they keep shoveling kitten on it.

 

Uh, worst balance? Have you tried any of the precontemporary, and contemeporary aka WoW era mmos? Such as the ones i mentioned? Even the other big name RvR game out there in mmo history DAOC had garbage class balance next to GW2. Even some modern mmos i have seen have atrocious balance. Besides Blade and Souls, which i have never played, but i hear has great balance, what game has better balance than GW2? and historically, in MMORPGS you can't use skill to overcome imbalance because the game can't compute that, but gw2 is one of the few games where you actually have the opportunity to use personal skill to beat imbalance. GW2 is one of the first games i have seen where both the game, and the playerbase avoid the tired, antiquated mmo trope of: "It's a team game, not a 1v1 game, therefore it has the right to have rock-paper-scissors imbalanced garbage classes" Which is extremely refreshing. Even on the WoW forum people use that excuse to justify the continued existence outdated designs like immortal healers, and 1 shot nukers, and 1 combo stealthers.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

I love gw2 <3

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

> As much as i hate CC with a burning passion, it is nowhere near as bad in GW2 as it was in WoW and it's clones.

> I tried a WOTLK server, and not only did it not have immunity timers... what few stun breaks it had seemed to be for specific abilities, and they were on timers that were like 2 minutes. I heard it had diminishing returns... I kept getting charmed over and over again with no noticable reduction. my character would literally randomly pace around for about 10 seconds, then he would get recharmed and randomly pace around for 10 more seconds. My first max level open pvp experience consisted of being stunned by a druid, him getting in about 6 hits while the stun lasted about 6 seconds, then when i recovered, i had about 10 percent health left, and i was immediately rooted, and died before i could get a single hit off. I looked on the forums for modern WoW and people are still complaining about all the CC in 2018.

Be careful about how you judge WoW. The biggest problem with WoW balance is item scaling through an expansion block. While gameplay may be balanced at the start of the expansion block, by the end of an expansion gear scaling has driven damage out of control. WoW is also often balanced around its CC - without that level of CC, healers in a group could infinitely out-heal any incoming damage.

 

As a cautionary tale, WoW went down the "arms race" route which GW2 is currently on. Everyone got more CC and more damage. As a result, healing got more powerful, and the only way to win was to CC the healer and burst someone down in about 5 seconds (before the CC ended). Of course this CC lock and burst was annoying, so more escape abilities or powerful damage reducing cooldowns were added. The net result in modern WoW is that if you get into a fight and your big damage reduction ability is on cooldown (2-5min cooldown), you're going to lose (except in the case where you're against something that you hard counter and can kite until your cooldown is up).

 

[jportell.2197]

Haven't played wow. Have played tera and ESO. Gw2 is by far the most fun and engaging pvp I've ever done.

[Devilman.1532]

idk man i really enjoy ESO's Battleground matches. Its not some mindless circle dance

[Accountzeroone.7291]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

> > As much as i hate CC with a burning passion, it is nowhere near as bad in GW2 as it was in WoW and it's clones.

> > I tried a WOTLK server, and not only did it not have immunity timers... what few stun breaks it had seemed to be for specific abilities, and they were on timers that were like 2 minutes. I heard it had diminishing returns... I kept getting charmed over and over again with no noticable reduction. my character would literally randomly pace around for about 10 seconds, then he would get recharmed and randomly pace around for 10 more seconds. My first max level open pvp experience consisted of being stunned by a druid, him getting in about 6 hits while the stun lasted about 6 seconds, then when i recovered, i had about 10 percent health left, and i was immediately rooted, and died before i could get a single hit off. I looked on the forums for modern WoW and people are still complaining about all the CC in 2018.

> Be careful about how you judge WoW. The biggest problem with WoW balance is item scaling through an expansion block. While gameplay may be balanced at the start of the expansion block, by the end of an expansion gear scaling has driven damage out of control. WoW is also often balanced around its CC - without that level of CC, healers in a group could infinitely out-heal any incoming damage.

>

> As a cautionary tale, WoW went down the "arms race" route which GW2 is currently on. Everyone got more CC and more damage. As a result, healing got more powerful, and the only way to win was to CC the healer and burst someone down in about 5 seconds (before the CC ended). Of course this CC lock and burst was annoying, so more escape abilities or powerful damage reducing cooldowns were added. The net result in modern WoW is that if you get into a fight and your big damage reduction ability is on cooldown (2-5min cooldown), you're going to lose (except in the case where you're against something that you hard counter and can kite until your cooldown is up).

>

 

Yeah powercreep sure is a thing on gear based games it seems like. On the flip side, WoW has some unique aspects to it; seems like each wow expansion plays differently than the last one did, which is kind of interesting. I'll probably continue to experiment with the WOTLK expansion server i found, but honestly, the post legion aka modern WoW pvp i'm not sure if i'd be into that after watching Swifty's video where he kept getting one shot over and over again on his prot warrior by a rogue, i was wondering why, then i found out they actually disabled armor in the game.... uh....? Disabling armor? Nokay.... I thought GW2 was getting bad about trivializing armor, but completely shutting it off to where it no longer works, no thx!

[voltaicbore.8012]

Yeah folks complain (sometimes correctly) about balance in GW2, but I agree with OP - GW2 pvp is far and away the most balanced experience I've had out of all the mmos I've played over the past 5 years or so. Yes, there are a few almost-one-shot builds out there to watch for, but those can usually be countered and have traded a significant amount of utility for that kind of output. Long story short, in no other game do I feel that I always, always, always have at least a fighting chance to win a matchup. Other games that scale pvp damage with gear are just ludicrous oneshot fests.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

>honestly, the post legion aka modern WoW pvp i'm not sure if i'd be into that after watching Swifty's video where he kept getting one shot over and over again on his prot warrior by a rogue, i was wondering why, then i found out they actually disabled armor in the game.... uh....? Disabling armor? Nokay.... I thought GW2 was getting bad about trivializing armor, but completely shutting it off to where it no longer works, no thx!

You're misunderstanding the comment. What WoW did in Legion was disable stats on gear in PvP - instead, you got stats in a fixed ratio which were scaled by the item level of your real gear. It was their attempt at reigning in power creep from gear. It didn't work well and if blizzard didn't give your spec the proper ratios, your spec sucked hard until they fixed it. They removed that system for BfA so now your gear stats are used directly in PvP.

 

[sephiroth.4217]

And its the very combat system we have that makes me wish we had death match... Its also the main source behind my reasoning to playing this game.

 

Beautiful graphics amd designs combined with a fantastic combat system.

[Swagg.9236]

Just because something is worse than bad doesn't mean that that bad thing isn't somehow not bad.

[Accountzeroone.7291]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

> >honestly, the post legion aka modern WoW pvp i'm not sure if i'd be into that after watching Swifty's video where he kept getting one shot over and over again on his prot warrior by a rogue, i was wondering why, then i found out they actually disabled armor in the game.... uh....? Disabling armor? Nokay.... I thought GW2 was getting bad about trivializing armor, but completely shutting it off to where it no longer works, no thx!

> You're misunderstanding the comment. What WoW did in Legion was disable stats on gear in PvP - instead, you got stats in a fixed ratio which were scaled by the item level of your real gear. It was their attempt at reigning in power creep from gear. It didn't work well and if blizzard didn't give your spec the proper ratios, your spec sucked hard until they fixed it. They removed that system for BfA so now your gear stats are used directly in PvP.

>

 

Really? a guy in Swifty's comment section plainly stated armor was just flat out disabled, meaning, there's no longer any difference between say, a warlock, rogue, and warrior; hence prot warriors getting constantly one shot.

[trixantea.1230]

I understand that OP became a fan of GW2 after trying too many MMOs but his review is a bit too biased towards GW2's PvP especially when he tries to compare it to WoW's.

 

The fact that you didn't like how cc works in WoW doesn't make PvP less enjoyable and balanced in WoW than it is in GW2.

Hard cc spells has long cast time (usually 1.5s) and every class in WoW has a short cd spell to interrupt it. Only a bad warlock will use chain-charm against his opponent because it shares DR with fear and breaks immediately from damage. You also said you let a druid cast root in front of you? which class were you playing, seriously?

 

Just because you didn't have enough experience with WoW's pvp doesn't make it bad. The game is still popular more than GW2 and there are people who are willing to pay a monthly fee to play it.

[Accountzeroone.7291]

> @"trixantea.1230" said:

> I understand that OP became a fan of GW2 after trying too many MMOs but his review is a bit too biased towards GW2's PvP especially when he tries to compare it to WoW's.

>

> The fact that you didn't like how cc works in WoW doesn't make PvP less enjoyable and balanced in WoW than it is in GW2.

> Hard cc spells has long cast time (usually 1.5s) and every class in WoW has a short cd spell to interrupt it. Only a bad warlock will use chain-charm against his opponent because it shares DR with fear and breaks immediately from damage. You also said you let a druid cast root in front of you? which class were you playing, seriously?

>

> Just because you didn't have enough experience with WoW's pvp doesn't make it bad. The game is still popular more than GW2 and there are people who are willing to pay a monthly fee to play it.

 

I still play wow's pvp, i didn't say it was bad overall, but the CC and the way diminishing returns is setup is about the worst i have seen in an MMO, i'm not alone you know, feel free to look at 2018 posts on the official forums about the degree of CC. I know i was new to it, but that didn't make me incapable of making observations.

[MiGFiD.1760]

> @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > GW2 = best combat, worst balance. Good foundations doesn't mean anything if they keep shoveling kitten on it.

>

> Uh, worst balance? Have you tried any of the precontemporary, and contemeporary aka WoW era mmos? Such as the ones i mentioned? Even the other big name RvR game out there in mmo history DAOC had garbage class balance next to GW2. Even some modern mmos i have seen have atrocious balance. Besides Blade and Souls, which i have never played, but i hear has great balance, what game has better balance than GW2? and historically, in MMORPGS you can't use skill to overcome imbalance because the game can't compute that, but gw2 is one of the few games where you actually have the opportunity to use personal skill to beat imbalance. GW2 is one of the first games i have seen where both the game, and the playerbase avoid the tired, antiquated mmo trope of: "It's a team game, not a 1v1 game, therefore it has the right to have rock-paper-scissors imbalanced garbage classes" Which is extremely refreshing. Even on the WoW forum people use that excuse to justify the continued existence outdated designs like immortal healers, and 1 shot nukers, and 1 combo stealthers.

 

The combat is good, the structured PvP is not. Unfortunately for what the PvP is like in most MMOs, the base is garbage and GW2 is the greenish foam that rises to the top.

 

PvE is great though

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

> > >honestly, the post legion aka modern WoW pvp i'm not sure if i'd be into that after watching Swifty's video where he kept getting one shot over and over again on his prot warrior by a rogue, i was wondering why, then i found out they actually disabled armor in the game.... uh....? Disabling armor? Nokay.... I thought GW2 was getting bad about trivializing armor, but completely shutting it off to where it no longer works, no thx!

> > You're misunderstanding the comment. What WoW did in Legion was disable stats on gear in PvP - instead, you got stats in a fixed ratio which were scaled by the item level of your real gear. It was their attempt at reigning in power creep from gear. It didn't work well and if blizzard didn't give your spec the proper ratios, your spec sucked hard until they fixed it. They removed that system for BfA so now your gear stats are used directly in PvP.

> >

>

> Really? a guy in Swifty's comment section plainly stated armor was just flat out disabled, meaning, there's no longer any difference between say, a warlock, rogue, and warrior; hence prot warriors getting constantly one shot.

I can't say anything other than, "That guy is a clueless idiot."

 

Prot warrior - really tank specs in general - were terrible in Legion instanced PvP because of the stat formula applied to them. To over-simply it, let's say their gear in PvE and open-world PvP gave them HP at a ratio of 1000x ilvl (item level). In PvP, the formula only gave them 600x ilvl. But every other non-tank spec probably had 500x ilvl. However, tanks often lacked burst damage, good control utility, or powerful defensive cooldowns to replace their mostly absent HP pool; their abilities were still largely geared toward reducing damage over time and dealing mediocre damage over time when their target would stick to them.

 

If the video was open world PvP in Legion, then it's another story; damage was completely out-of-control for a long time. There was a PvE trinket which would one-shot any non-tank player from range in open world PvP on something like a 90sec cooldown. Not sure if that ever got fixed - I didn't play Legion for long.

 

------------

 

> @"trixantea.1230" said:

> The fact that you didn't like how cc works in WoW doesn't make PvP less enjoyable and balanced in WoW than it is in GW2.

> Hard cc spells has long cast time (usually 1.5s) and every class in WoW has a short cd spell to interrupt it. Only a bad warlock will use chain-charm against his opponent because it shares DR with fear and breaks immediately from damage. You also said you let a druid cast root in front of you? which class were you playing, seriously?

This is such a strawman. Interrupts were on cooldowns too. Against a class which had no cooldown on its CC, they only needed to wait a few seconds for the interrupt to fade. Also, druids at various points have been able to cast CC in melee without being interrupted through traits or certain abilities; it's not unheard of for what he described to happen. Or it could have been a feral druid using stuns.

 

 

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Accountzeroone.7291" said:

>GW2 probably has some of the best pvp MMORPGS have ever had

True, I guess. If just for the fact that gear basically doesn't matter. It's easy to forget how much things like gear used to matter in MMOs. Because back when you were playing them it was par for the course. I mean I played dozens of them prior to GW2 and I definitely forgot how obnoxious it could get after all this time in GW2. But playing BDO when it launched to get a break from GW2 was an eye-opener for sure. Ran into a dude I recognized from GW2 after having powerleveled like an animal to get to lvl55 as fast as possible solo and tried to gank him. I had pretty good gear at the time, the only ones with better stuff were the officers from 2-3 tryhard guilds on the server. Which the guy happened to be. And I knew the player in question was mechanically a bad player with the reaction time of a sloth, having faced him a bunch of times in GW2 on mirror builds no less. I think I was wailing on that lad for a good 20 seconds basically doing chip damage getting him to 50% and while he didn't hit me at all. He did eventually hit me and I was two-shot. It gave me flashbacks from Aion when you tried to fight someone 20-30 levels higher than you, except we were the same level. I don't think I've ever dropped a game faster than after that.

[madamred.1463]

i adore gw2 pvp i never pve in this game so that is saying something for sure

[trixantea.1230]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"trixantea.1230" said:

> > The fact that you didn't like how cc works in WoW doesn't make PvP less enjoyable and balanced in WoW than it is in GW2.

> > Hard cc spells has long cast time (usually 1.5s) and every class in WoW has a short cd spell to interrupt it. Only a bad warlock will use chain-charm against his opponent because it shares DR with fear and breaks immediately from damage. You also said you let a druid cast root in front of you? which class were you playing, seriously?

> This is such a strawman. Interrupts were on cooldowns too. Against a class which had no cooldown on its CC, they only needed to wait a few seconds for the interrupt to fade. Also, druids at various points have been able to cast CC in melee without being interrupted through traits or certain abilities; it's not unheard of for what he described to happen. Or it could have been a feral druid using stuns.

>

Interrupts have 15 sec cd. and CC has a duration of 6s then 3s then 1.5s, the target becomes immune to that category of CC for 18s.

The way he died to a druid (who supposedly used his combo points to chain-stun instead of Bite or Rip) without doing a thing is more of a L2P issue than a design flaw. Name one class that doesn't have a single way do some damage or use a CC before dying to a druid like that.

 

Back to the main topic: If you think that GW2 PvP is better than WoW's, why ESL GW2 had been shut down?

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"trixantea.1230" said:

> Back to the main topic: If you think that GW2 PvP is better than WoW's, why ESL GW2 had been shut down?

 

What does the game has to do with Blizzard absurd capability of finding sponsorship?

Dota2 and Overwatch can, alone, support any game Blizzard declares to be e-sport.

It has nothing to do with the game itself.

 

 

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> GW2 = best combat, worst balance.

 

I pity you for thinking like that.

 

Try playing some Koren published MMo somewhere and you will understand the concept of "bad balance".

Infact, you don't need to even go that far. Pretty much all games suffer of balance to a certain degree on different skills levels.

Some company's don't give a damm about balance and just keep adding new skills and itens to the game.

People complain about a sigil here that adds some crit chance for 3 seconds?

- What about games that you already know the meta classes before the patch even arrives because the koren developer sends the same patch for every publisher and don't even bother to balance skills that everyone already knows they will be broken?

- What about games that that classify their classes "Easy" and "Difficult" and never bother to balance at all?

- And games with PvP that have some so kitten terrible netcodes where depending on lag your active defenses skill merely fail due to client side hitboxes, combos doesn't work because skills doesn't connect properly. Meaning that unless you live close to the servers you can't even play PvP at all on basic levels.

- Gear based PvP games: because who cares about balance if I can hire kids to grind my char, credit card my equipment and just spam some randon rotation of skill on PvP and kill people because I deal 10 times more damage than the average player?

 

.

.

.

 

GW2 has easily one of the best PvP mechanics in the current MMo market.

I would ARGUE that some people would compare to WoW and ESO to a certain degree. But mechanically wise that would be the same as comparing Dark Souls with Skyrim. The games gameplay focus are too different to simple classify as "pvp mmo" and compare like that.

 

In fact, GW2 PvP is sooooooo bad that we only get compared to WoW (most profitable game in the story of MMos) and games that are no MMoRPGs like MOBAs and console multiplayer games.

 

Mind me, I do wish ANET would give more attention to SPvP and WvW. But part of the reason our SPvP is like that is that PvP on MMoRPGs is dying as a whole. Not only here.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

My problem is just the amount of missed opportunity. The combat system has the ability to create a lot of cool game modes, but we are stuck with conquest which becomes very one dimensional at times and isn't necessarily a fun game mode for random team quickplay. There could have been some larger team game modes like Fort aspenwood and Jade Quarry from guild wars 1 that support a wider variety of builds and has multiple different types of objectives to achieve. The problem isnt that its terrible, its that its the same thing over and over again and we get nothing new. We get new maps, but its the same game mode over and over again. Same rewards over and over again. Nothing cool to work towards in pvp.

[Abazigal.3679]

It probably has one of the best PvP mechanics and system in the current mmo games, but the seasonal system makes it too close from other games in terms of common issues.

 

Probably if we had one big ladder running for a year, everyone would be at his deserved rank and there wouldn't be complaints on forum. However, we have short seasons and we get the same problems and complaints happening in every single game , especially at average rating where you have everyone from every level.