Help with roaming build

[duillyn.2697]

bloop bleep

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"duillyn.2697" said:

> Run whatever you want but ya, full condi is poor.

>

> There's a whole bunch of builds you can use so maybe giving you insight into how to make a build work might be more valuable. None of these are rules, just personal experience, but I've roamed solo for about 4k wvw ranks so I've a bit of experience :)

> - If you are winning most of your fights you can probably move some defense options to more offensive ones (opposite also true). Do it over time perhaps and adjust to the differing levels of damage/defense.

> - If you are unable to disengage you need more mobility, in the current state I don't think there's actually such a thing as 'too much mobility', more is always good: out of combat is the best heal in the game.

> - If condis aren't a prob drop some cleanses, if power isn't move some protection abilities/blocks to more offensive options.

> - Find weapon sets you like, play to their strengths. Staff is bae with chaos, torch is spicy with condi, sword likes power damage, gs pops with power also. These aren't hard rules, but, for example, I like staff so I'm currently using hybrid as it adds a great deal to staff attrition. Start a build from here.

> - Related to the last, a build has to exist in the current state of WvW. atm mobility is king so a build that's going to be successful needs to be able to chase/kill those also (this is why chrono isn't viable atm, it's fat and slow). There's the overall meta but also the night-by-night 'meta' as well. For example if you're meeting a lot of burst-y builds putting on a ring or two with toughness stats might not be a bad idea. Your build shouldn't be set in stone, tweak it as needed.

> - EM isn't the god people claim, it can really mess you up if it procs at a bad time + other options add a whole bunch of other viable builds. Theres's no 'best' traits just better ones for what you're currently using. Don't be afraid to think and try stuff from outside the box, more knowledge is always good.

> - Boons exist, you need to have a plan for builds that heavily rely on them (ie some guard solo builds NEED retal, if you remove that they are done)

> - Runes and sigils can cover major holes in a build, just usually not as much as traits. "More damage" options are cool but they can alsobe used to really plug holes in whatever you're running. Added to this, don't use runes for move-speed, it's a huge waste of options. You have sword leap and you can also just keep a focus in your inv, swap 4 swap.

> - Positioning is much, much, much more important than any build you can use. Look at every fight, find the free space, find the next free space, stomp.

> - If you can't burst then it's probably not viable in the current meta. Any burst is burst, but it needs to be something that does spike quite hard, otherwise with all the mobility people are gone.

> - Condition duration is a pretty poor stat in WvW (sig of midnight is just a great utility even without that element but for armor etc there is almost always a better option). Similarly to this, boon duration is pretty weak unless you have a lot of it, but that's something for group based stuff perhaps moreso than solo.

> - Just because some dude on youtube uses a build doesn't mean it is godtier. Most of the mesmer stuff online is the result of pretty individualised builds developed over time, people tweak the build to their playstyle, not the otherway around. Don't be afraid to experiment but if you do, give that test some time, changing back after your first loss isn't helping anything.

> - A good build can kill everything, not just X, Y and Z class, not just 1v1's.

>

> Mirage doesn't need toughness because we have mobility, if you move all, or some, of that to offense then you are going to be on a build that will require more skill-based interaction but one that will reward that skill.

> Direct feedback: try carrion stats.

>

 

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I am not a big fun of carrion, now im running grieving and it's fun, having only power without any precision or ferocity it's kinda meh for a running a gs build which i want to do.

 

Probably tomorrow if there aren't too many big nerfs i will consider to put a vision sigil on my gs for 3 seconds of 100% crit chance, with my build i have 30 35% crit chance only if not wrong, i think would me amazing swapping from staff to gs and cast gs2 and gs4, the illusions should do all crits right? Their attacks i mean, or only mine?

[duillyn.2697]

Illusions don't trigger sigils I'm afraid, not unless they change that tomorrow (they prob won't, it would be pretty busted). Vision sigil might be cool, I don't really want to give advice or anything because I haven't used it either, try it tho, no harm :) That said, if you're running grieving try the dueling line, it gives a lot of fury for 20% extra crit, the top gm trait is a monster for power-based builds and the middle trait will work with grieving gear also. You could also try full zerk on a gs build, it does stupid damage.

 

One last thing, more than any of that, if you want to improve on mesmer, search youtube for some mesmer combo videos then go and practice them for 30 mins for a few days, come up with some of your own, you will improve dramatically, mesmer is kinda just combo wars in the end.

And you're most welcome for the feedback, glad you seem to be enjoying your current setup :)

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"duillyn.2697" said:

> Illusions don't trigger sigils I'm afraid, not unless they change that tomorrow (they prob won't, it would be pretty busted). Vision sigil might be cool, I don't really want to give advice or anything because I haven't used it either, try it tho, no harm :) That said, if you're running grieving try the dueling line, it gives a lot of fury for 20% extra crit, the top gm trait is a monster for power-based builds and the middle trait will work with grieving gear also. You could also try full zerk on a gs build, it does stupid damage.

>

> One last thing, more than any of that, if you want to improve on mesmer, search youtube for some mesmer combo videos then go and practice them for 30 mins for a few days, come up with some of your own, you will improve dramatically, mesmer is kinda just combo wars in the end.

> And you're most welcome for the feedback, glad you seem to be enjoying your current setup :)

 

I tried an exotic full zerk mirage, but I am way more success running this hybrid gs and staff, staff allow me to survive a lot in nasty scenarios and in outnumbers.

The full combo burst of greatsword mesmers works only on bad opponents who don't know how to dodge, the thing to shine with it seems to be patient and play mind games, and cancel skills to bait dodges.

 

Today while roaming I found a full power shatter chrono who jumped on me and in one second landed all the gs burst, luckily i was aware of him and with one dodge i completely negated all his burst, i made him panick with staff condis, i switched to gs when he used shield block and all dodges, and i landed all my power burst on him instead downing him.

 

Maybe I was lucky dunno, but going for the full combo is never a good idea, unless you wanna make a oneshot montage xD

 

I think that new sigil of vision will help a lot being more consistent, shatter F1 should result in full crits, right? Sometimes shatters do not crit and you lose the oneshot, with this new sigil in my build with not so high precision it will benefit quite a lot, I will definitely check it out if works.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> Maybe I was lucky dunno, but going for the full combo is never a good idea, unless you wanna make a oneshot montage xD

 

Which coincidentally is why I really disagree with another statement made by duillyn, that mesmer "doesnt need toughness" just because you have evade. Its not that easy in WvW.

 

I met a DH trapper yesterday that literally did the full combo for his oneshot montage (probably :p). All the traps *SCHWOMP* down to 3k hp trying to get away. I never even saw him at the start, though I did beat him (he was glass) but even then I nearly died to autoattacks while he was down (*really* glass).

 

At marauder stats I would have instantly died.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > Maybe I was lucky dunno, but going for the full combo is never a good idea, unless you wanna make a oneshot montage xD

>

> Which coincidentally is why I really disagree with another statement made by duillyn, that mesmer "doesnt need toughness" just because you have evade. Its not that easy in WvW.

>

> I met a DH trapper yesterday that literally did the full combo for his oneshot montage (probably :p). All the traps *SCHWOMP* down to 3k hp trying to get away. I never even saw him at the start, though I did beat him (he was glass) but even then I nearly died to autoattacks while he was down (*really* glass).

>

> At marauder stats I would have instantly died.

 

If you play full power mirage you have an high risk high reward spec, even if people call noob friendly every single mirage build.

If you get caught off guard you have zero passives to save your butt.

And in 1vs1s you must use the evades correctly, you can't spam randomly and expect to win, that is less true in full trailblazers mirages.

I played it myself and I must admit I could make quite a lot of mistakes and still win regardless, now i switched to a more yolo build things are way harder but more satisfying and funny.

 

It's quite normal to die against a dh as mesmer, unless you are trailblazer mirage you should not die, but chrono mesmer and power mirage are countered heavily by dh, even by a brainless full trapper.

 

To be honest now if you saw my build link I am playing full grieving, so i have zero toughness in my build, but I don't feel at all the necessity to add toughness trinkets, they impact my build seriously even if you might think it won't, we don't have a trait like core guardians to boost crit chance under retaliation and so they can invest into valkyrie or cavalier.

 

If you really wanna become better at playing the game in my opinion zero toughness in all your gear is the way to go, or you become too dependent on that toughness and you can be considered carried by that.

 

Vitality on the other hand is a must have for some professions for example in guardians who can't run with 11k hp.

 

The quote: "the best defense is the attack" is true, if your opponent is pressured and at risk dying he will go defensive and won't attack you back, but yeah everyone should run what he is comfortable too, and wvw is fun because of builds and stats customizations, what works for me might not work for you and viceversa.

 

Can't wait to see today's update, curious to try out the new sigils.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> If you really wanna become better at playing the game in my opinion zero toughness in all your gear is the way to go, or you become too dependent on that toughness and you can be considered carried by that.

"Better" at what game? Instaspiking someone 1v1 in the back for the lulz?

 

Thats not how I challenge myself. I fight for the win no matter the odds and choose the tools to do that.

 

Getting "carried" by a build is called *having a good build* otherwise it wouldnt carry anyone no matter how good or bad they are. You can have the "best" meta build that all the cool kids run because *skillz and deeps* but if it doesnt carry you to victory, its kitten for you. Gimping yourself with something people consider better cause skillz is counterproductive and the reason so, so many mediocre roamers fail hard when meeting actual opposition.

 

So as has been mentioned, each to their own. When I want to get better at the game, I analyze the strategy, the tactics, how I engage and the enemies. Every failure I see myself doing is on me.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > If you really wanna become better at playing the game in my opinion zero toughness in all your gear is the way to go, or you become too dependent on that toughness and you can be considered carried by that.

> "Better" at what game? Instaspiking someone 1v1 in the back for the lulz?

>

> Thats not how I challenge myself. I fight for the win no matter the odds and choose the tools to do that.

>

> Getting "carried" by a build is called *having a good build* otherwise it wouldnt carry anyone no matter how good or bad they are. You can have the "best" meta build that all the cool kids run because *skillz and deeps* but if it doesnt carry you to victory, its kitten for you. Gimping yourself with something people consider better cause skillz is counterproductive and the reason so, so many mediocre roamers fail hard when meeting actual opposition.

>

> So as has been mentioned, each to their own. When I want to get better at the game, I analyze the strategy, the tactics, how I engage and the enemies. Every failure I see myself doing is on me.

 

choosing the right tools/build is something sadly many players dont add into what they consider skill, wich is one of the main reason we got so many balance QQ threads going. i cant gimp myself and ask anet to gimp everyone else to my level, just to then gimp myself further to be considered skilled again.

 

[Curunen.8729]

LOL adventurer rune buff (edit missed the 20s icd, patch notes are wrong) and sigil of cleansing buff (assuming it's also 3 condis in wvw as well as pve, only restricted to 1 in pvp?). xD

 

Inb4 double sigil of cleansing new meta.

 

Wait... does antitoxin rune stack with other condi removal? :o That's insane if it adds an extra removal on every single condi removal. Surely that can't be right, would be the most broken thing - imagine Elusive Mind or Inspiration with this. Could facetank condi scourge and spam /laugh...

 

Edit - blimey these are some crazy buffs. :o

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> LOL adventurer rune buff and sigil of cleansing buff (assuming it's also 3 condis in wvw as well as pve, only restricted to 1 in pvp?). xD

>

> Inb4 double sigil of cleansing new meta.

>

> Wait... does antitoxin rune stack with other condi removal? :o That's insane if it adds an extra removal on every single condi removal. Surely that can't be right, would be the most broken thing - imagine Elusive Mind or Inspiration with this. Could facetank condi scourge and spam /laugh...

>

> Edit - blimey these are some crazy buffs. :o

 

Wow nice to hear about adventurer, but now the cooldown is 20 seconds and no more 10, so using manipulation heal is useless now, works perfect with ether feast tho.

 

Now revenants will run double cleansing for sure probably, in staff it was already a must have.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > LOL adventurer rune buff and sigil of cleansing buff (assuming it's also 3 condis in wvw as well as pve, only restricted to 1 in pvp?). xD

> >

> > Inb4 double sigil of cleansing new meta.

> >

> > Wait... does antitoxin rune stack with other condi removal? :o That's insane if it adds an extra removal on every single condi removal. Surely that can't be right, would be the most broken thing - imagine Elusive Mind or Inspiration with this. Could facetank condi scourge and spam /laugh...

> >

> > Edit - blimey these are some crazy buffs. :o

>

> Wow nice to hear about adventurer, but now the cooldown is 20 seconds and no more 10, so using manipulation heal is useless now, works perfect with ether feast tho.

>

> Now revenants will run double cleansing for sure probably, in staff it was already a must have.

 

It's still 10s? Oh I see their patch notes are wrong it is 20, just loaded up the game and had a look. So 50/50 then, buff in terms of damage output, nerf for endurance gain.

 

In that case I'll either be changing heal or maybe changing to Antitoxin if it means every condi removal removes +1 condi.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > LOL adventurer rune buff and sigil of cleansing buff (assuming it's also 3 condis in wvw as well as pve, only restricted to 1 in pvp?). xD

> > >

> > > Inb4 double sigil of cleansing new meta.

> > >

> > > Wait... does antitoxin rune stack with other condi removal? :o That's insane if it adds an extra removal on every single condi removal. Surely that can't be right, would be the most broken thing - imagine Elusive Mind or Inspiration with this. Could facetank condi scourge and spam /laugh...

> > >

> > > Edit - blimey these are some crazy buffs. :o

> >

> > Wow nice to hear about adventurer, but now the cooldown is 20 seconds and no more 10, so using manipulation heal is useless now, works perfect with ether feast tho.

> >

> > Now revenants will run double cleansing for sure probably, in staff it was already a must have.

>

> It's still 10s? Oh I see their patch notes are wrong it is 20, just loaded up the game and had a look. So 50/50 then, buff in terms of damage output, nerf for endurance gain.

>

> In that case I'll either be changing heal or maybe changing to Antitoxin if it means every condi removal removes +1 condi.

 

I was already using false oasis or ether feast so nothing chances for me, for my hybrid build adventurer is just the best imo.

 

Now gonna try vision on greatsword and i still keep doom on my staff, if i don't find any other option, maybe even cleansing since my build is so weak against condis. i'll see.

[Curunen.8729]

I just tested antitoxin and it does cause jaunt to remove 2 condis. :o I'm going to swap to this and see how it goes.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> I just tested antitoxin and it does cause jaunt to remove 2 condis. :o I'm going to swap to this and see how it goes.

 

I don't know what build you run, but you do find that many condi players around while roaming?

 

I think using the mantra to cleanse plus the new cleansing sigil might be enough, or even running inspiration, I don't see the necessity to give up power stats and the extra dodgeroll on heal just for an extra condi removed by that rune.

 

I don't find many condi players around, and even if I find them I can't switch my build constantly to counter everyone, if your build is able to counter everything it means it's lacking for sure on something else, you can't have the perfect build which counters everything and it's not countered by anything.

 

Like for example good revenant players don't jump into condi mirages, 90% is a loss for the revenant, nothing they can do about it, unless they get a surprise attack and oneshot.

 

I think we should wait few days to see which sigils and runes actually works and which doesn't.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > I just tested antitoxin and it does cause jaunt to remove 2 condis. :o I'm going to swap to this and see how it goes.

>

> I don't know what build you run, but you do find that many condi players around while roaming?

>

> I think using the mantra to cleanse plus the new cleansing sigil might be enough, or even running inspiration, I don't see the necessity to give up power stats and the extra dodgeroll on heal just for an extra condi removed by that rune.

>

> I don't find many condi players around, and even if I find them I can't switch my build constantly to counter everyone, if your build is able to counter everything it means it's lacking for sure on something else, you can't have the perfect build which counters everything and it's not countered by anything.

>

> Like for example good revenant players don't jump into condi mirages, 90% is a loss for the revenant, nothing they can do about it, unless they get a surprise attack and oneshot.

>

> I think we should wait few days to see which sigils and runes actually works and which doesn't.

 

Oh it's just one of those personal preferences - I like building to soft counter condi to the point where I don't have to worry much about it unless being outnumbered. I do come across enough condi to warrant building against it. I'd rather be able to survive most encounters even if it means not being able to kill everything.

 

The reason why I am thinking of dropping adventurer is because of how I used it:

- to offset exhaustion from EM

- casting heal at full health for the reflect while not "losing" endurance, with heal being available again in 12s

- allowing more liberal use of endurance to cover cast things like axe 2

 

My habit is still to use heal at high health for reflect - pretty much a year of muscle memory so it's kind of strange when switching to ether feast or FO which only heals.

 

I may go back to it at some point - eg if they ever decide to redesign elusive mind, but also I'm at the point of wanting to try new things now to keep the game fresh.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > I just tested antitoxin and it does cause jaunt to remove 2 condis. :o I'm going to swap to this and see how it goes.

> >

> > I don't know what build you run, but you do find that many condi players around while roaming?

> >

> > I think using the mantra to cleanse plus the new cleansing sigil might be enough, or even running inspiration, I don't see the necessity to give up power stats and the extra dodgeroll on heal just for an extra condi removed by that rune.

> >

> > I don't find many condi players around, and even if I find them I can't switch my build constantly to counter everyone, if your build is able to counter everything it means it's lacking for sure on something else, you can't have the perfect build which counters everything and it's not countered by anything.

> >

> > Like for example good revenant players don't jump into condi mirages, 90% is a loss for the revenant, nothing they can do about it, unless they get a surprise attack and oneshot.

> >

> > I think we should wait few days to see which sigils and runes actually works and which doesn't.

>

> Oh it's just one of those personal preferences - I like building to soft counter condi to the point where I don't have to worry much about it unless being outnumbered. I do come across enough condi to warrant building against it. I'd rather be able to survive most encounters even if it means not being able to kill everything.

>

> The reason why I am thinking of dropping adventurer is because of how I used it:

> - to offset exhaustion from EM

> - casting heal at full health for the reflect while not "losing" endurance, with heal being available again in 12s

> - allowing more liberal use of endurance to cover cast things like axe 2

>

> My habit is still to use heal at high health for reflect - pretty much a year of muscle memory so it's kind of strange when switching to ether feast or FO which only heals.

>

> I may go back to it at some point - eg if they ever decide to redesign elusive mind, but also I'm at the point of wanting to try new things now to keep the game fresh.

 

I see your point, and switching those runes is only few gold afterall, it's not like swapping durability which takes more effort to get.

 

I am new to mesmer and mirage so I don't feel that necessity to swap many things yet xD

 

About sigil unfortunately we don't have much choices, 1 energy in both weapon sets is a must have, we have only 2 slots remains, doom is a very choice and helps a lot dealing with rangers and warriors negating their heals quite a lot, cleansing now might be worth it as well, vision on greatsword doesn't seem that bad, it is better on those players who are able to land the shatter combo in 1 second or so.

I can't think for now of other good sigils to use.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > If you really wanna become better at playing the game in my opinion zero toughness in all your gear is the way to go, or you become too dependent on that toughness and you can be considered carried by that.

> "Better" at what game? Instaspiking someone 1v1 in the back for the lulz?

>

> Thats not how I challenge myself. I fight for the win no matter the odds and choose the tools to do that.

>

> Getting "carried" by a build is called *having a good build* otherwise it wouldnt carry anyone no matter how good or bad they are. You can have the "best" meta build that all the cool kids run because *skillz and deeps* but if it doesnt carry you to victory, its kitten for you. Gimping yourself with something people consider better cause skillz is counterproductive and the reason so, so many mediocre roamers fail hard when meeting actual opposition.

>

> So as has been mentioned, each to their own. When I want to get better at the game, I analyze the strategy, the tactics, how I engage and the enemies. Every failure I see myself doing is on me.

 

^ this 1000%, it's why I run a very specific build in WvW. I have over 5k hours logged on my mesmer and giving yourself the tools and mobility to counter nearly every possible situation is IMO what makes a great roaming build. If I wanted to I could run a glass cannon build that blows things up in 1-3 seconds but whats the point if I can't survive that +1 or 2 that add during the encounter or after I've blown up that 1 person?? I've got a little bit of everything which is why I'm so effective in 1vX situations, my first burst might not land entirely or do that much damage at first but when I do land my combos over the course of the fight they're devastating. The sustained damage obtained by running Power/Condition mix usually outshines full burst / full condition builds. When one is chasing Hybrid perfection, one must mix and match to achieve min max greatness ??? The recipe calls for decent power out put ( don’t forget ferocity ) good surviveability ( toughness, vitality, condi cleanse etc ) with a dab of condition cheese and healing power. Traveler Runes are a must have: the movement speed, boon & condition duration paired with celestial stats makes them perfect ?? you can tweak it to your liking ( glassier, tanker, etc ) just play around with build editor and test it out. At max stacks you will have 2202 power, 757 condi damage + with boarderlands bloodlust, 206% critical damage, 21k+ hp, 33% ctitical chance ( no more is needed when you have perma fury when targets are below 75% + intel sigils for insta crits on swap which I do ALL THE TIME ), 2723 armor ( this helps with all of the power creep / outnumbered fights ), 12 condition cleanses ( Jaunt x3, EM x2, mantra of resolve x6, torch4 x1 ) 447 Healing power for regen / heals, and 25% movement speed VIA Runes of the Traveler. The current changes to Runes and Sigils has me curious about other possible combinations that might work for this.

 

DISCLAIMER: Just because this works for me DOESN'T mean that it will 100% work for you. As stated before tweak this to your liking / play style. Just know that this build does indeed work ( at least for me ) as proven over and over again VIA gameplay.

 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhEQRAra3fnELDlphFpBOqBMMjlcjqMAWtexMBetQyP9j/6H-jFDEQBaR5ngUC6UVIewJAwO7PAgDCADeCAYSdgEpSwb0K4HdBTSFlAAIADtQL0CNYoDdoDdoDtrL0hO0hO0hO0hO0hWKgtWWB-w

[FaboBabo.3581]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAsc3fnELbPjW1EMbHaC0wMNFawwsMRLvGmf/rAeAPLCBhkDaAIn8cA-j1SHAB1pEsJlfAcQEWUlA4V3R39Hk/EAAn+B30wIwTKY+DIQmhAgbJVtqSVVVJFQV60A-w

 

allready updated for the new patch.

 

basically same as syprus said, but i have even more survivability while loosing some dmg.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"FaboBabo.3581" said:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAsc3fnELbPjW1EMbHaC0wMNFawwsMRLvGmf/rAeAPLCBhkDaAIn8cA-j1SHAB1pEsJlfAcQEWUlA4V3R39Hk/EAAn+B30wIwTKY+DIQmhAgbJVtqSVVVJFQV60A-w

>

> allready updated for the new patch.

>

> basically same as syprus said, but i have even more survivability while loosing some dmg.

 

Thanks for the feedback, seems a pretty solid build, but right now I am having tons of fun with greatsword and staff and I dont think I can run a greatsword/staff build with only 1900 base power damage, with grieving and adventurer now im over 2500 with recent buff, and over 1400 condi damage as well, i dont have sustain from toughness and vitality and healing power, but i can get away with it for now. The only threat are condi bursts, but i don't encounter many condi players around, deadeyes, soulbeasts, warriors, revenants, reapers, guardians are usually my encounters, then some hybrid condi mirage or power shatter and some random condi thief but 1 out of 100 players i meet. If i meet scourges they are a tough fight if they caught me afk or something, if i play well i can stay 1200 range and evade all the shades and shits, but if i make more than one mistake and get condi bombed i die miserably.

 

I don't like anymore the axe playstyle, it's too spammy and "easy" mode.

 

Now still thinking of possible sigil substitution and see if something is worth using.