MASSIVE nerf hammer... sigil of concentration gutted, leadership nerfed, and no trait help

[Carighan.6758]

> @"FOX.3582" said:

> Even then it is not going to be enough. You always have that Herald facet and the Banner of Tactics, so who knows what the meta going to be? :)

 

It's hilarious to see ANet do the first bumbling baby steps of class-design, -reworks and -balancing which other MMO companies did 15+ years ago in EQ, DAoC or a few years later in WoW.

 

Considering the game is 6y old at this point, it's also really sad. :pensive:

[Cyninja.2954]

Always wonderful to see people freak out.

 

For once I have to go with the anti chrono crowd on this. The main argument as chrono has always been that our insane support comes at a price, that being damage. This changed with recent class reworks. Chronos pushing 10-15k on bosses (not golem) with non chaos builds is not balanced with permanent alacrity and quickness.

 

This change to Runes and Sigils is at best a minor annoyance and if you had ever seen what a nerf from Arenanet looks like you'd understand.

 

The main downside is that as support we are forced in Chaos even more now. That said, even with Chaotic Persistance nerf to 2% per boon, chrono is the least affected by all these changes.

 

There is a time to complain, this is not it.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Fye.7594" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > Now that is interesting!

> >

> > I work out that's about 8.8% boon duration in full zerk.

> >

> > So we get 25% from leadership, 20% from chaotic persistence, 10% from concentration 8.8% from the new oil and add in the new halloween food 6.6% and you can get 70% boon duration in full zerk. You can get another 6% with infusions....is that enough?

>

> Yes. And if you mix some Commander pieces, you can reach 100% boon duration... as I said, not very different from our current meta build.

> We don't need to be full Commander to play Support Chrono; that idea is just mass hysteria.

 

Unfortunately people don't tend to sit down and take a proper look at things. It's like this mass hysteria about mirage, when you watch the people who complain the loudest you see they burn their only cleanses on 4 conditions no more than a single stack each that are about to wear off.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Problem is not that it is more balanced niw but that it is less punishing for mistakes and so less fun

[Einsof.1457]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> Problem is not that it is more balanced niw but that it is less punishing for mistakes and so less fun

 

I did my CMs+T4s today and almost fell asleep.

[apharma.3741]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> Problem is not that it is more balanced niw but that it is less punishing for mistakes and so less fun

 

Fun is different things to different people. However considering how bad the player base is and that it's just a really bad decision to make content only a fraction of your population will do, is it a surprise that a build that allows people to raid easier also gets easier?

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > Problem is not that it is more balanced niw but that it is less punishing for mistakes and so less fun

>

> Fun is different things to different people. However considering how bad the player base is and that it's just a really bad decision to make content only a fraction of your population will do, is it a surprise that a build that allows people to raid easier also gets easier?

 

99% of the time this changes nothing for bad players because those that wanted to learn it already know s how to play it. Bad players here are so bad that this will chamge nothing for them

[apharma.3741]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > Problem is not that it is more balanced niw but that it is less punishing for mistakes and so less fun

> >

> > Fun is different things to different people. However considering how bad the player base is and that it's just a really bad decision to make content only a fraction of your population will do, is it a surprise that a build that allows people to raid easier also gets easier?

>

> 99% of the time this changes nothing for bad players because those that wanted to learn it already know s how to play it. Bad players here are so bad that this will chamge nothing for them

 

I dunno, tank up a bit or slap on concentration stats, use 3 skills in a somewhat competent order and you've done the job needed for the most part. This change means they have an excuse for doing less damage or using more vit/toughness gear on chrono.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

mes still op so dont expect the rest of us to feel bad

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > @"Sieghilde.7632" said:

> > This is not what a massive nerf hammer looks like

>

> you dont play chrono in high end pve then.

 

Mesmer in PvE: S Tier + since HoT.

Anet: Gives Mesmer a minor inconveniences.

Mesmer: Still S Tier + .

Also Mesmer: Anet hates us! Massiv nerf!!!!!

 

Spoiled kids problem.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > > @"Sieghilde.7632" said:

> > > This is not what a massive nerf hammer looks like

> >

> > you dont play chrono in high end pve then.

>

> Mesmer in PvE: S Tier + since HoT.

> Anet: Gives Mesmer a minor inconveniences.

> Mesmer: Still S Tier + .

> Also Mesmer: Anet hates us! Massiv nerf!!!!!

>

> Spoiled kids problem.

 

That applies to just about every class and their forum.

 

Now go read through this thread and realize that unlike most other classes and their communities, there is healthy discussion and disagreement that this change is a huge nerf here.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> Problem is not that it is more balanced niw but that it is less punishing for mistakes and so less fun

 

Punishing players in this type of combat mechanic is fundamentally bad design. The way it promotes a singular meta with an exacting execution, because its the only way to exercise risk mitigation. By design it would demand a specific solution, which in turn is cutting the number of alternatives, because you're punishing them for not doing whats expected.

 

Raids in general are fundamentally broken as a concept. Not just here, but in any other games that follow the DPS-check frame work. In theory, this is supposed to be an efficiency puzzle layered on top of a survival scenario. The latter half is where you see the most variation, as it focuses on mechanical solutions to a problem. The issue is that this only needs to be solved once, and the solutions already pre-defined by the encounter design. The damage efficiency half fairs only slightly better in that its based on something more ubiquitous, but suffers from easier quantification.

 

The only place GW2 really stands out on this is the buildcraft allowing for strong Role compression and hybridization. However, the advantages of this system is lost on an encounter design based on classic trinity comps. Raids, Fractals, and most of open world suffers from this problem. Both PvP and WvW takes much better advantage of the flexibility in the buildcraft; but it too is quickly over shadowed by the out of control damage scaling to support "more difficult" PvE fights, that rely more on stat loading then smarter enemy AI and enemy skill comp. And the few times they've tried this, the players went apeshit over how "impossible" it is to fight something that operates on even a remotely similar level to the player.

 

PvP generally works, because players will constantly adapt until they reach Apex status. But when you push the damage scales so high that it can skip entire mechanics, well... what do you expect is going to happen?

[Dahkeus.8243]

> @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > Problem is not that it is more balanced niw but that it is less punishing for mistakes and so less fun

>

> I did my CMs+T4s today and almost fell asleep.

 

So...mesmer got a "massive nerf", but you almost "fell asleep" doing end game content. Not sure who's owning your cry post more: Everyone else on this thread or you on yourself.

[otto.5684]

> @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > > > @"Nepster.4275" said:

> > > > Chrono was doing too much DPS in raids that why this nerf was needed...

> > > > And this doesnt really change the whole thing, but from now on you can go full minstrel and afk share boons <--- enjoying real end game content, tho rest of the changes to other stuff isnt that bad

> > >

> > > I really enjoyed minmaxing dps while having full boon uptime. now i can only have full boon up time with no wiggle room for minmaxing based on my own personal skill. it really bites.

> >

> > Wouldn't building for either/or be called balance?

> >

>

> No it's called pigeon holing, and the less choice we have the worse off the game is. Not just mesmers, but all professions.

 

Mesmer has a viable power, condi and support builds. Not sure how is this “pigeon holing.” Also, devs have been pushing support builds not to deal high dps and they should not.