Rune and Sigil Changes - 13 November 2018 [Merged]

[Jski.6180]

Its a wash revert them and start over. Get devs who know the game better stop spraining your worker base. The left hand has no ideal what the right hand is doing in Anet organization.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Its a wash revert them and start over.

It hasn't even been a week. It's too early to say that. The market is in flux right now. Give it a month or two and then if it's still terrible, then they should consider bumping up the salvage chance for symbols and charms.

 

 

[Emberstone.2904]

I think it's ridiculously stupid that I can't extract upgrades from gear without a Black Lion Salvage Kit or an Upgrade Extractor.

 

I used to be able to do it with cheap, merchant-bought salvage kits, and now you expect me to use cash shop items to do it? What? How is that in any way better than the old system?

[maddoctor.2738]

One thing that I dislike about the rune/sigil change is how slow "salvage all" is now. It's probably because it does extra calculation on items (to check the sigil/rune then salvage it) but there is a very noticeable pausing when you salvage lots of items using the "salvage all". I hope this can be fixed to make salvaging as fast as it used to be because clearing tons of bags now is annoying.

[Rhiannon.1726]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> I think it's ridiculously stupid that I can't extract upgrades from gear without a Black Lion Salvage Kit or an Upgrade Extractor.

>

> I used to be able to do it with cheap, merchant-bought salvage kits, and now you expect me to use cash shop items to do it? What? How is that in any way better than the old system?

 

Upgrades that I extracted from gear with a normal salvage kit were just vendor trash. If I wanted to have the upgrade (because the rune/sigil was expensive) I always use the Black Lion Salvage Kit.

[Emberstone.2904]

> @"Rhiannon.1726" said:

> > @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> > I think it's ridiculously stupid that I can't extract upgrades from gear without a Black Lion Salvage Kit or an Upgrade Extractor.

> >

> > I used to be able to do it with cheap, merchant-bought salvage kits, and now you expect me to use cash shop items to do it? What? How is that in any way better than the old system?

>

> Upgrades that I extracted from gear with a normal salvage kit were just vendor trash. If I wanted to have the upgrade (because the rune/sigil was expensive) I always use the Black Lion Salvage Kit.

 

I would rather suffer an 80% chance on a 15 silver Master Salvage Kit than use a cash shop item to salvage my runes.

 

The fact that you can ONLY salvage out runes with cash shop items now is nothing short of predatory.

[Etterwyn.5263]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> > @"Rhiannon.1726" said:

> > > @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> > > I think it's ridiculously stupid that I can't extract upgrades from gear without a Black Lion Salvage Kit or an Upgrade Extractor.

> > >

> > > I used to be able to do it with cheap, merchant-bought salvage kits, and now you expect me to use cash shop items to do it? What? How is that in any way better than the old system?

> >

> > Upgrades that I extracted from gear with a normal salvage kit were just vendor trash. If I wanted to have the upgrade (because the rune/sigil was expensive) I always use the Black Lion Salvage Kit.

>

> I would rather suffer an 80% chance on a 15 silver Master Salvage Kit than use a cash shop item to salvage my runes.

>

> The fact that you can ONLY salvage out runes with cash shop items now is nothing short of predatory.

 

One man's predation is another man's profit. :'(

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > Its a wash revert them and start over.

> It hasn't even been a week. It's too early to say that. The market is in flux right now. Give it a month or two and then if it's still terrible, then they should consider bumping up the salvage chance for symbols and charms.

>

It's not only symbols and charms. It's the whole recipes.

 

 

[Izyuss.6423]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Gentle Reminder: This is the thread in which you should place your feedback about changes to runes and sigils. There are certain threads that speak exclusively about a specific rune or sigil, and for the most part they're being left to stand alone (to avoid a merge that muddies the conversation). However, general feedback is best here, and we appreciate your sharing your thoughts in this thread whenever possible.

>

> One exception I can think of is threads that speak to changes and how they will impact a specific profession. Those would probably best to shared in that profession's subforum, because that's a very specific conversation that deserves the specialized audience for that topic. But those sorts of comments are also welcome here, if you'd prefer.

>

> Thanks.

 

I have a suggestion; Rune of Rebirth, the bonus 6th almost never save you from being downed because it just give a aproximatily 1980 barrier. i suggest give it a 1 second of invulnerability and the barrier, this way the bonus will be more effective and you will have time to react .

[Mat H.2859]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted but those runes that summon something when you get into combat will summon something when you take fall damage. Plus summons will disappear when you mount up.

Edit: Tested it on an environment without hostiles and it was not due to getting fall damage I was probably still considered to be in combat even though I wasn't fighting anything at that time. I apologize for the misinformation. Though it would be better if it summons on hit instead like the Rune of Durability.

Edit 2: This time I wasn't in combat, there weren't any enemies near me and I took fall damage in open world and my Rune of the Ogre summoned a Rock Dog. I suppose taking fall damage in a city doesn't cause the summon but in other places it does.

[Vagrant.7206]

Drop rates for some of the symbols may need to be adjusted (I've gotten maybe 2 symbols in the past week), but it's hard to say this early on. Could just be the early market rush that's inflating prices.

[AmaraAnthia.4130]

I know it's been a week, but here is my two cents on the changes as a raider who mains support classes. Unsurprisingly, this will mostly focus on the changes to the sigil of concentration.

So, when the changes were announced, the stated reason for changing sigil of concentration was that it was "mandatory in high-end PvE content, without any way to replace it." Ironically, it actually was totally possible to run, for example, a chaos chronomancer with runes of leadership and no sigil of concentration. This was viable (if all you cared about was your group having boons), it just wasn't optimal because it required the raider to get a lot more of their boon duration from their gear, effecting their dps. And yes, a lot of raiders were quite judgmental of people who did it. With the nerf to runes of leadership and SoC, *every* chrono must now run chaos as opposed to other previously viable options just to have 100% boon duration. With this update boon druids must trade out more Magi's gear for Harrier's and therefore have even less healing power. The rune and sigil changes took a total of 28% boon duration (23 from SoC, 5 from RoL) away from most chronomancer builds which must now be found in gear. That's 420 concentration. That's a lot of potential flexibility *gone*. Where is this supposed "way to replace it"?

 

TLDR: If the goal of this update was to promote diversity in the builds of raiders and fractal runners, Anet failed. (And I'll happily talk at length on how that is a silly goal which is ultimately doomed to failure.) If the goal was to make a bunch of adults whine like children about how Anet hates us, good show.

[AmaraAnthia.4130]

On another note, Sigils of Concentration are expensive, and I recognize that Anet doesn't directly control TP prices, but they do control drop rates and the reason SoCs are expensive is that freshwater pearls are quite rare. When said sigil was pretty powerful, it didn't feel *so* bad to spend 40 or 50 gold buying or crafting one. Now it feels really bad.

[Ana.2415]

Nvm wrong thread. -delete-

[geist.4126]

Superior Rune of the Defender is way too strong in WvW now. It was already strong before, but you put it to an completely absurd level.

 

NEW:

(1): +25 Toughness

(2): +35 Healing

(3): +50 Toughness

(4): +65 Healing

(5): +100 Toughness

(6): +10% Maximum Health; heal for 5% of your maximum health after blocking an attack. (Cooldown: 1 Second)

 

OLD:

(1): +25 Healing

(2): When you block a foe's attack, gain 1 second of Regeneration.png Regeneration.

(3): +50 Healing

(4): When you use a heal skill, gain Aegis.png Aegis for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 10s)

(5): +100 Healing

(6): When you block a foe's attack, heal yourself. (Cooldown: 30s)

 

On my warrior I'm unstoppable with that, especially when running the defense trait line and

1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health

3) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Endure_Pain

 

With being a Spellbreaker it gets even stronger thanks to the broken "Full counter" which procs a passive regeneration even if the opponent is smart enough to not attack you.

 

 

[AmaraAnthia.4130]

One more thing, I know other people have already expressed this opinion, but the more people who say it, the less it looks like a minority opinion. The changes to rune/sigil crafting and salvaging feel like a blatant cash grab. First you make runes and sigils more expensive by extra adding materials to their crafting cost (and from my observation over the last week or so, symbols and charms have an *very* low drop rate) and then you remove any non-cash shop method of retrieving them. And that feels bad, bad in a "maybe I don't want to give this company my money any more" kind of way.

 

Additionally, the changes are going to have a permanent negative impact on the cost of runes and sigils on the trading post. Yes, the market will stabilize, but the prices will still be noticeably higher, both because symbols and charms are kind of rare, and because the runes and sigils themselves will become more rare now that people won't be getting them when they salvage random loot! I know Arena net doesn't directly control the prices on the TP, but it's still annoying when they do things that are obviously going to effect it.

 

All this said, i really *wanted* to like the whole salvaging runes thing, it was nice to think i'd have something to do with all the little minor runes one gets from green gear. Ultimately all that happened is that the craftable ones are more costly to craft, which doesn't feel good at all.

 

I'm going to stop complaining now and make some suggestions:

* Make at least master salvage kits able to retrieve upgrades again.

* Alternatively, add some other non-cash-shop way to retrieve upgrades (even if it is just a chance to), this is less preferable.

* Increase the drop rates of charms and symbols. A lot. Most popular crafted runes and sigils already had some relatively rare component needed to craft them in the form of a lodestone.

* Better idea, do away with charms and symbols all together and have a comparable chance of salvaging shards, cores and lodestones of the relevant type from runes and sigils.

* Revert all the recipes and use charms and symbols exclusively to craft those runes and sigils that were previously uncraftable, like runes of leadership, sigils of force, etc.

* Please for the love of all that is holy give chronos their boon duration back, weapon swapping isn't that hard, and every boon support build still has a sigil of conc, you didn't change anything for the better, you just made people sad.

[Lambent.6375]

I like that there is a chance we can get something valuable from salvaging greens(with runes) and hope that they add even more uses for charms and symbols so prices don't drop.

[Sneakr.3679]

So if I understand this correctly the silver fed salvage-0-matic is now garbage? It says it has an 80% chance to recover upgrades, is it broken? I have salvaged tons of rares and not one upgrade returned. Shouldn't this be corrected or a refund/exchange available?

[DaFishBob.6518]

Hey I got an idea, how about adding rune and sigil bags to loot tables? That way we can still get runes and sigils without crafting them AND they won't be clogging up too much inventory until they're wanted.

[Calanthe.3857]

The description of Rune of the Water given in [the Nov. 13 Game Update Notes](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60248/game-update-notes-november-13-2018 "the Nov. 13 Game Update Notes") does not match the description of the Rune in game anymore, nor [the wiki page](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Water_(disambiguation) "the wiki page"). Specifically, the in-game Rune says the 6th bonus is to remove a condition (from self and allies) after using a healing skill, while the update notes say the bonus is to heal self and allies. I believe the Rune in game previously had the latter.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Sneakr.3679" said:

> So if I understand this correctly the silver fed salvage-0-matic is now garbage? It says it has an 80% chance to recover upgrades, is it broken? I have salvaged tons of rares and not one upgrade returned. Shouldn't this be corrected or a refund/exchange available?

 

Far from it. It's the best salvage kit now if you intend to farm lucent motes with the best chance at salvaging charms and symbols from your loot. What you're thinking of is probably salvaging from actual sigils and runes, in which case the kit doesn't matter.

 

All that matters when salvaging a rune or sigil directly is the quality of the rune or sigil (minor, major, superior).

 

Though the salvage rate from it altogether is rather abysmal and the time for attaining trash runes and sigils on the cheap has passed (unless you have an endless extractor, then you're rolling around money).

 

Personally I just gather up my loot as I always have and use silver-fed on everything. Already gathered stacks of motes and a humble collection of symbols and charms by just doing what I always have.

 

I still feel symbol and charm salvage rates are a bit too low but it's still early to say that's a thing and not just my desire to have lots of all of the things right now.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"AmaraAnthia.4130" said:

> One more thing, I know other people have already expressed this opinion, but the more people who say it, the less it looks like a minority opinion.

Just because people keep repeating an opinion doesn't make it a fact.

 

> @"AmaraAnthia.4130" said:

> Additionally, the changes are going to have a permanent negative impact on the cost of runes and sigils on the trading post. Yes, the market will stabilize, but the prices will still be noticeably higher

And that is a bad thing because?

 

The main supply of runes and sigils on the trading post in the future will not come from straight extraction but from crafting. All of the lucent motes, charms and sigils we gather while salvaging will feed into said crafting, thus spreading the profit much more evenly among the playerbase rather than giving decent coin to the few lucky enough to loot equipment with the upgrade of the week while only handing vendor trash to everybody else.

 

> @"AmaraAnthia.4130" said:

> All this said, i really *wanted* to like the whole salvaging runes thing, it was nice to think i'd have something to do with all the little minor runes one gets from green gear. Ultimately all that happened is that the craftable ones are more costly to craft, which doesn't feel good at all.

We're still early into the new system. Most people have no idea yet how the system will balance out, many keep the materials in storage for now to see how prices will settle. Once people get used to the new system, more crafting materials will enter the market and prices will stabilize, probably in a pretty similar spot to where the sought-after runes and sigils used to be, with a few that are more (or in a very few cases less) readily accessible now, but that's natural fluctuation that we had before (depending on balance and consequently meta changes).

 

> @"AmaraAnthia.4130" said:

> I'm going to stop complaining now and make some suggestions:

Try to let go of the thought that runes and sigils are meant to be available by directly extracting them from drops. That's not how the system works any more. There's a backdoor for those people who want to switch equipment without loosing valuable upgrades (blsk and upgrade extractor), but the main source of runes and sigils from now going forward will be crafting. Any method that easily allows you to circumvent the crafting system directly has an impact on how well the crafting system will work at all (as it directly influences how many players take part in it, either by crafting or by producing crafting materials to feed into the economy).

 

I'm positive that ANet will keep a close look on the salvage rates and how the value of lucent motes, charms and symbols develops, and they have shown before that they are more than willing to act if a system like this doesn't work as they expect, by tweaking the drop rates of the materials in question.

[LucianDK.8615]

Chronos needed their nerf, they were way too good. And it gives heralds a role again with the boon buff facet of nature.

[Extacy.6192]

@"Gaile Gray.6029"

 

Rune of the Pack tooltip is inconsistent with all the other runes.

 

It's the only rune which states "after entering combat". It should be "when entering combat".

 

**Additionally, please consider changing Rune of the Pack to its old "on being" hit proc and reduce the might stacks therefore.

Or give us another way to reapply them while in combat. Same with Rune of Rage.**

 

In this state of the game these runes are otherwise not competitive. Nearly no one will use them. That's a shame, was one of my favorite rune.

[OtakuModeEngage.8679]

Imo the best solution is to change it so that when you salvage gear you recieve runes and sigils as you used to, you then have the option to use them, sell them, or salvage them again into their crafting components.