Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > Condi Mirage is a great "noob friendly" build > The most important part is that it's the only viable option in PvP. At equal skill, you don't kill other roaming spec with power. > (And versus high level rev, putting condi pressure on them is the best option for your team.) I play DPS mirage when I run in PvP and my k/d ration against them still falls in my favor. I can recall a couple intense fights. Not saying I am a good Mirage player (which I am not) or they were bad, but having experience on both sides of the fence, our skill was fairly equal. > > >perfect for learning the class mechanics. > Not really, learning class mechanics aka illusion generation and shatter is better on core than in mirage where ambush are a specific gameplay. > Mechanics of ambush attacks and mirage utilities due to condi being a bit more forgiving (not a glass cannon, can take a few hits while learning) > >I personally poke fun of those that keep using it, however its usually in jest as I used it before so I know how easy it is. This is why I say "Those that can't Mirage properly, play condi". I didnt know how to play it properly, hence I used it as it was ez mode so it was perfect to use. > It's not about what is easy or not but about what is efficient or not when we talk about high level PvP. If power or tank or whatelse is more efficient (even if there is hard learing curve), then you shouldn't see condimirage in top 100/finalAT/mAT. It's not the case. > Then easy or not, a mirage who rollface his keyboard will get powned in less than 5 sec versus a mirage (or any other meta build) who time his skills. > Trying to make player who use the bests tools options currently available feel guilty with the argument : "I farm 1vX noobs with it" so it's just a noob things is the worst noob reasoning I ever see. On every build, everyone can farm 1vX noobs (last time I was in WvW(2 month ago.) I do the same with powercoremes.). > Play power/tank/signet/whatelse if you want but don't make generality concerning player who use 100% of their class potential. > > And in WvW, power has always been a strong option. (and for many players it's probably easier to put a 3k gs ambush at 1200 range than to come in mele to condi burst.). Condi Mirage is still more common in WvW than DPS (in my t2/3 server matches anyway). It is a strong option for sure, however the condi sustain of condi mirage is better than the sustain of a DPS mirage imo. Condi mirage vs DPS mirage of equal skill, condi will come out on top in PvP and WvW. Reason theres not much in high ranks PvP is they dont bring anything to a team setting and high level is about proper team composition. If they did bring even a slight decent thing to PvP, you would def see more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackmonster.2790 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 What's with the use of definitions? Condi is dps too arg i lose my mind reading this. It's misconcieved in a multitide of ways. Damage per second is actually inclined to be more fitting for damage over time class than a direct damage dealer (burst), because it in the wording indicates you are interested in the damage done over time and not in short windows(burst). It would make more sense to ask for DDPS(direct dps) or BDPS(burst dps) even DDD(direct damage dealer), but this DPS is just so unfitting on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Since this got bumped. I had a friend who whenever someone called him condi noob he said something like "what are you talking about I'm full zerker" over the time we kept adding stuff to his answer such as he's playing without traits and with only one weaponset which consists only of an offhand. Point being when you get called something chill and mess with the rager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbru.6014 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Welcome to why PVP is the single worst part of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > After playing both variants for the first time I must say power needs way more skill to play, you usually run full zerk with some mara and zero toughness and even a noob dh with traps can oneshot you if you fail one evades. Question: Assuming you *got* the skill, would Power actually be stronger than as if the same (high-skilled) person played Condi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 > @"Carighan.6758" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > After playing both variants for the first time I must say power needs way more skill to play, you usually run full zerk with some mara and zero toughness and even a noob dh with traps can oneshot you if you fail one evades. > > Question: Assuming you *got* the skill, would Power actually be stronger than as if the same (high-skilled) person played Condi? They are different builds. Power mirage has lot of counters, and one of them is Condi mirage, an hard counter actually. As a condi mirage (running trailblazer) you should never lose to a power mirage even if he runs inspiration traitline. And no, power is not stronger as if the same person player condi. Actually a worse player playing condi mirage can kill a much better player playing power. The difference is the risk involved and the counters the build have. Condi mirage (trailblazer) is so strong against any power build due to high vitality and toughness you can affors many mistakes and still win, it suffers only against a good boonbeast(best 1vs1 spec right now) and thieves and against other condi specs. Power mirage is killed easily by dhs, revs, warriors, thieves, rangers, holos, and suffers a lot against condis too. His strength is in the player hands, more than one mistake during a fight will get you downed. If you have other questions or I did not answer well to your question please explain more thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 That sounds like other than challenging yourself, there's no real reason to ever play Power, tbh. It sounds like a straight-up downgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"Carighan.6758" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > After playing both variants for the first time I must say power needs way more skill to play, you usually run full zerk with some mara and zero toughness and even a noob dh with traps can oneshot you if you fail one evades. > > > > Question: Assuming you *got* the skill, would Power actually be stronger than as if the same (high-skilled) person played Condi? > > They are different builds. > > Power mirage has lot of counters, and one of them is Condi mirage, an hard counter actually. > As a condi mirage (running trailblazer) you should never lose to a power mirage even if he runs inspiration traitline. > > And no, power is not stronger as if the same person player condi. > Actually a worse player playing condi mirage can kill a much better player playing power. > > The difference is the risk involved and the counters the build have. > > Condi mirage (trailblazer) is so strong against any power build due to high vitality and toughness you can affors many mistakes and still win, it suffers only against a good boonbeast(best 1vs1 spec right now) and thieves and against other condi specs. > > Power mirage is killed easily by dhs, revs, warriors, thieves, rangers, holos, and suffers a lot against condis too. > His strength is in the player hands, more than one mistake during a fight will get you downed. > > If you have other questions or I did not answer well to your question please explain more thanks. I disagree. In sPvP its doesnt matter as you usually only meet 1-2 people at any given point - where the condi mirage shines - but in WvW power mirage has the potential to be much, much stronger the better a player is. Condi mirage is a 1v1 killer against builds that lack condi cleanse true, but the harder and more outmanned the fight is, the exponentially worse it becomes and no amount of skill can make up for the lack of pressure. In many engagements the condi mirage become the one you target last. Its without teeth against groups. Its like... 1 condi mirage dumping condis into a tight 5 man group is easily cleansed by *one* of them before it does any damage, while 1 power mirage can bring *all 5* to below 50% hp in a second. And the power mirage can do it at 1200 range, the condi mirage need to get into melee before it can even begin to ramp up. In the condi mirage vs power mirage matchup it depend on skill of course, but its really the same thing there - the power mirage can bring the condi mirage to 50% hp before the condi mirage even begin to engage him in return. Again, the condi mirage is a noob killer. The power mirage will only die easily if he was stupid enough not to bring condi cleanse. Can condi still beat them even though its a good cleanser? For sure, I've seen really, really good condi mirages pumping in bombs at just the right time. But while they would win eventually win in such 1v1, they would loose if it became a 1v2 against two equally skilled foes (even worse if its AoE cleanse). Which is like half of WvW engagements when roaming against good players. There, a power mirage can react much faster and dump damage on the new target. Only if its two noobs without condi cleanse... well I could go on all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > @"Carighan.6758" said: > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > > After playing both variants for the first time I must say power needs way more skill to play, you usually run full zerk with some mara and zero toughness and even a noob dh with traps can oneshot you if you fail one evades. > > > > > > Question: Assuming you *got* the skill, would Power actually be stronger than as if the same (high-skilled) person played Condi? > > > > They are different builds. > > > > Power mirage has lot of counters, and one of them is Condi mirage, an hard counter actually. > > As a condi mirage (running trailblazer) you should never lose to a power mirage even if he runs inspiration traitline. > > > > And no, power is not stronger as if the same person player condi. > > Actually a worse player playing condi mirage can kill a much better player playing power. > > > > The difference is the risk involved and the counters the build have. > > > > Condi mirage (trailblazer) is so strong against any power build due to high vitality and toughness you can affors many mistakes and still win, it suffers only against a good boonbeast(best 1vs1 spec right now) and thieves and against other condi specs. > > > > Power mirage is killed easily by dhs, revs, warriors, thieves, rangers, holos, and suffers a lot against condis too. > > His strength is in the player hands, more than one mistake during a fight will get you downed. > > > > If you have other questions or I did not answer well to your question please explain more thanks. > I disagree. > > In sPvP its doesnt matter as you usually only meet 1-2 people at any given point - where the condi mirage shines - but in WvW power mirage has the potential to be much, much stronger the better a player is. Condi mirage is a 1v1 killer against builds that lack condi cleanse true, but the harder and more outmanned the fight is, the exponentially worse it becomes and no amount of skill can make up for the lack of pressure. In many engagements the condi mirage become the one you target last. Its without teeth against groups. Its like... 1 condi mirage dumping condis into a tight 5 man group is easily cleansed by *one* of them before it does any damage, while 1 power mirage can bring *all 5* to below 50% hp in a second. And the power mirage can do it at 1200 range, the condi mirage need to get into melee before it can even begin to ramp up. > > In the condi mirage vs power mirage matchup it depend on skill of course, but its really the same thing there - the power mirage can bring the condi mirage to 50% hp before the condi mirage even begin to engage him in return. Again, the condi mirage is a noob killer. The power mirage will only die easily if he was stupid enough not to bring condi cleanse. Can condi still beat them even though its a good cleanser? For sure, I've seen really, really good condi mirages pumping in bombs at just the right time. But while they would win eventually win in such 1v1, they would loose if it became a 1v2 against two equally skilled foes (even worse if its AoE cleanse). Which is like half of WvW engagements when roaming against good players. There, a power mirage can react much faster and dump damage on the new target. Only if its two noobs without condi cleanse... well I could go on all day. > Talking purely of WvW I disagree sorry, power mirage plays full zerk/mara and zero toughness. Condi mirage plays with over 22k hp and 3k armor, and if it doesn't get caught by susprise it impossible he gets oneshotted, to 50% might be, but he has all the time to counter attack at that point. This being said, one mistake with power mirage can get you killed even by a noob trap dragonhunter or warrior or holo, with condi mirage you can afford more mistakes due to vitality and toughness. That being said hybrid is the best of the three, you can't protect at the same time against condis and against raw power damage, a full condi mirage against a cleansing weaver has no chances when an hybrid does, same for power mirage who struggles against high toughness build, hybrid has condis too and can win that fight. This is just my opinion and playing all 3 builds it's confirmed at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > > @"Carighan.6758" said: > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > > > After playing both variants for the first time I must say power needs way more skill to play, you usually run full zerk with some mara and zero toughness and even a noob dh with traps can oneshot you if you fail one evades. > > > > > > > > Question: Assuming you *got* the skill, would Power actually be stronger than as if the same (high-skilled) person played Condi? > > > > > > They are different builds. > > > > > > Power mirage has lot of counters, and one of them is Condi mirage, an hard counter actually. > > > As a condi mirage (running trailblazer) you should never lose to a power mirage even if he runs inspiration traitline. > > > > > > And no, power is not stronger as if the same person player condi. > > > Actually a worse player playing condi mirage can kill a much better player playing power. > > > > > > The difference is the risk involved and the counters the build have. > > > > > > Condi mirage (trailblazer) is so strong against any power build due to high vitality and toughness you can affors many mistakes and still win, it suffers only against a good boonbeast(best 1vs1 spec right now) and thieves and against other condi specs. > > > > > > Power mirage is killed easily by dhs, revs, warriors, thieves, rangers, holos, and suffers a lot against condis too. > > > His strength is in the player hands, more than one mistake during a fight will get you downed. > > > > > > If you have other questions or I did not answer well to your question please explain more thanks. > > I disagree. > > > > In sPvP its doesnt matter as you usually only meet 1-2 people at any given point - where the condi mirage shines - but in WvW power mirage has the potential to be much, much stronger the better a player is. Condi mirage is a 1v1 killer against builds that lack condi cleanse true, but the harder and more outmanned the fight is, the exponentially worse it becomes and no amount of skill can make up for the lack of pressure. In many engagements the condi mirage become the one you target last. Its without teeth against groups. Its like... 1 condi mirage dumping condis into a tight 5 man group is easily cleansed by *one* of them before it does any damage, while 1 power mirage can bring *all 5* to below 50% hp in a second. And the power mirage can do it at 1200 range, the condi mirage need to get into melee before it can even begin to ramp up. > > > > In the condi mirage vs power mirage matchup it depend on skill of course, but its really the same thing there - the power mirage can bring the condi mirage to 50% hp before the condi mirage even begin to engage him in return. Again, the condi mirage is a noob killer. The power mirage will only die easily if he was stupid enough not to bring condi cleanse. Can condi still beat them even though its a good cleanser? For sure, I've seen really, really good condi mirages pumping in bombs at just the right time. But while they would win eventually win in such 1v1, they would loose if it became a 1v2 against two equally skilled foes (even worse if its AoE cleanse). Which is like half of WvW engagements when roaming against good players. There, a power mirage can react much faster and dump damage on the new target. Only if its two noobs without condi cleanse... well I could go on all day. > > > > Talking purely of WvW I disagree sorry, power mirage plays full zerk/mara and zero toughness. > Condi mirage plays with over 22k hp and 3k armor, and if it doesn't get caught by susprise it impossible he gets oneshotted, to 50% might be, but he has all the time to counter attack at that point. > > This being said, one mistake with power mirage can get you killed even by a noob trap dragonhunter or warrior or holo, with condi mirage you can afford more mistakes due to vitality and toughness. > > That being said hybrid is the best of the three, you can't protect at the same time against condis and against raw power damage, a full condi mirage against a cleansing weaver has no chances when an hybrid does, same for power mirage who struggles against high toughness build, hybrid has condis too and can win that fight. > > This is just my opinion and playing all 3 builds it's confirmed at least for me. Just like "condi mirage" doesnt mean full condi with no toughness/vitality, neither does "power mirage". There are plenty of ways to reach around 3k armor/20k hp and still pump out decent amounts of power damage. You just wont instakill people, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaz.3819 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 If you play a condi mirage, the question is have you ever played any class against one? If you have, you know your answer and why you get the grief. And other than specific Weaver cleanse build and the occasional heavy support cleanse build Firebrand (that does next to no damage) and needs a teammate to kill you, how often do you actually see these roaming classes compared to others? You may get alpha spiked down from the medium 3 on occasion but that's no different than any other roaming class so ... That said, play what you want, it's your time. But if you can't take the heat when you get called out/laughed at, don't play condi mirage as you have nearly all the advantages in just about every set up. Afterall, there is a reason most of your fellow roaming mirages out there are playing that mirage spec. And hybrid power/condi is nearly just as off skew on balance in that area and you should expect the same treatment as it is nowhere near balanced against most classes (WvW). PvE is a complete joke with mirage but who cares about that game mode, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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