Revenant PvP Is it Platinum Worthy? And Can I get some tricks/advice?

[EnderzShadow.2506]

**Ultimately, I am hoping to learn and get some pointers on Revs and combos/tricks/ anything that will help me get better as a Rev in PvP.

If you don't read anything else I have to say, that's fine, but that's all I really want.**

 

 

 

I am getting a lot of conflicting information/opinions on Rev in pvp (from Revs) on these very forums.

 

On one hand, the damage can be a bit nuts. It's fun, even if Im dying way more than I am used to.

I want to understand what I am doing wrong,

are there some super secrets to play Rev well?

 

 

People talk about how it's a difficult class to play and ultimately rewarding.

A high skill, Highest Ceiling class in gw2 (pvp)

Some disagree and believe the mechanics of Rev to be Broken.

And others believe its not a high skill class, just a broken one., its not hard at all, just broken aye eff.

 

Some people think it doesn't have a place in a team or AT matches.

And others think Rev has replaced thief as the Roamer +1

 

As a Rev, I am told I should avoid team fights and always aim to be the +1 like a thief.

In team fights i get melted.

If I try to back cap, 1v1 and +1, I run into classes that do that better than Rev imho (soulbeast and Mirage)

 

The heals are so lame.. One requires you to BE hit and one requires me to do the hitting to get anything out of it.

Counterintuitive isn't it?

 

Where is all the OP movement that Rev supposedly has?

If Condi looks at me, Im done

Mid fights I get melted.

 

No stealth.

No immune to dmg or condi

NO amazing evade spam

No real blocks. that one from staff isn't a gamechanger

Where is my Stability?

 

/cheers

 

[Dace.8173]

I think you encounter contradictions because. A. it does require a level of skill and B. for folks who have that level of skill it doesn't always feel that skill is needed. Thus the contradiction is more about peoples gripes about performance as opposed to an inconsistent narrative. In the right hands Revenant can do fairly well. I don't think there are any super secrets to playing a Revenant in PvP other than to just get better at Engergy mangment and knowing when to pop your boons and when to switch between Glint and Shiro. I haven't gotten to plat with it, but then again I'm not focusing on Revenant this season, mostly playing Dragonhunter as I'm find it more fun right now.

 

I wouldn't really claim that Revenant is broken. Those complaints tend to come from folks not happy with the Energy system. I do think it is a bit underpowered as it only has one viable build right now and condi is in a really weak to nonexistent spot. Despite that, Power Herald is in a relatively good spot, in my opinion (though I know some would agree).

 

When it comes to actual gameplay in a match I tend to make use of my mobility to cap points. I'm am, by no means, an expert with Power Herald, but I've found focusing more on rotation. When I join team fights I tend to help someone focus down another opponent. Deathstrike to teleport to an unsuspecting person, followed by Shackling Wave to lock them down, and then Unrelenting Assualt while they can't move followed up with a Precision Strike can down most folks who are presently engaged with another person. You tend to survive team fights by being aware and on the move. In that regard, Revenant can do a lot of movement. Deathstrike, Unrelenting Assualt, Surge of the Mists, Impossible Odds, Riposting Shadows, and Phase Travel can all be used to keep you on the move and gives you the ability to dart in and out of a team fight. Sadly, Power Herald doesn't have many condi cleanses. If that is really your problem then you'd need to consider running with Jalis or Mallyx.

 

Healing feels weak because you have two heal skills and as such, the effectiveness of them is not as straightforwardly strong as the other professions, so timing is the key to getting the most from your heals. Enchanted Daggers is more or less an offensive heal and helps you to maintain some pressure while gaining health. Mileage will vary on that. Facet of Light doesn't really require you to get hit to heal as it is a constant regeneration effect. Infuse the Light is more or less an emergency heal kind of thing than your standard heal effect. If you're not getting hit then you really won't have to worry about using it. So it doesn't require you to be hit to do its job, it just helps you survive a massive hit, such as taking some burst damage or being suddenly focused on or kitted.

 

So yeah, it lacks stealth but not many professions have that to start with so no big dent there. You do have a fair amount of damage mitigation if played right and if you run the proper Legends you can handle condi damage. I really don't have a lot of problem from condi damage except for when there are more than one Scourge in play or they have a Firebrand supporting them. You do have some nice evades. Surge of the Mists is a nifty evade and Riposting Shadows when used well should help with your evade needs. Yeah, there are no real blocks, all the more reason to not get hit and the lack of stability sucks.

 

The thing about Revenant is that you have to kinda sorta be one step ahead of your opponent. It requires you to be aware of your surroundings on a level that most professions don't worry about, akin to Elementalist. The more you can anticipate the better you will do. Your heals and evades work best when you anticipate the need for them as opposed to reacting and then making use of them. Revenant is a micromanage profession, similar to Elementalist and Engineer. As such you need to have more situational awareness than say, playing Warrior.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

One thing you said definitely hit home with me

'being one step ahead of your opponent and being aware of your surroundings'.

Definitely feels like more preparation and planning in the short time leading up to a fight.

 

The energy hasn't been an issue for me, but I dont believe that is because I am good, rather, I dont know all the

Things I COULD DO and then am unable because I am out of energy. Make sense?

 

The heals, you know, other classes have an option if they want to heal for the dmg they do.

They have the choice, they don't have to trait differently to do so either. Its just a choice between all the heals available to the profession.

It seems rather unfair to force the rev to play this way.

Ill deal with it, and I want to keep on playing---just an observation.

 

Thank you for the other suggestions about movement and burst and how too approach group fights.

 

/cheers

 

[JayAction.9056]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> On one hand, the damage can be a bit nuts

 

No, rev damage is the lowest.

 

Stop saying this??? It’s the lowest by far.

 

You play rev in plat by just being better at the game though. It’s no real tricks. Get a handle of the skills and play better using the terrain to your advantage.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > On one hand, the damage can be a bit nuts

>

> No, rev damage is the lowest.

>

> Stop saying this??? It’s the lowest by far.

>

> You play rev in plat by just being better at the game though. It’s no real tricks. Get a handle of the skills and play better using the terrain to your advantage.

 

Well, I guess it's low compared to what I am used to playing, or at least much BURSTIER than what I am used to playing, that being a Sanctuary/Palladin Soulbeast.

With that class, sure I can down people. But mostly they are fights of attrition and not 1, 2, 3 and 3/4's of their life is gone.

[Dace.8173]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> One thing you said definitely hit home with me

> 'being one step ahead of your opponent and being aware of your surroundings'.

> Definitely feels like more preparation and planning in the short time leading up to a fight.

>

> The energy hasn't been an issue for me, but I dont believe that is because I am good, rather, I dont know all the

> Things I COULD DO and then am unable because I am out of energy. Make sense?

>

> The heals, you know, other classes have an option if they want to heal for the dmg they do.

> They have the choice, they don't have to trait differently to do so either. Its just a choice between all the heals available to the profession.

> It seems rather unfair to force the rev to play this way.

> Ill deal with it, and I want to keep on playing---just an observation.

>

> Thank you for the other suggestions about movement and burst and how too approach group fights.

>

> /cheers

>

 

Energy is an issue for a lot of people as your weapon and utilities all require it. A fair number of people start spamming moves and then find that they don't have the Energy needed to do something that they want. Or they want to camp a Legend and thus don't always have the Energy they feel they should have. As for the heals, as I said, you are running with two at a time and so that effects how powerful they are. However, unlike other folks, you are capable of having two different type of healing effects where most folks just have the one. The only other professions who can change the way they heal on the fly are Elementalist, Engineer, Firebrand, and Druid. I get how not being able to choose your skills can suck though. The way Legends work is a huge departure from the rest of the game. However, that's what I love about Revenant. I recognize that not everyone enjoys that limitation though. I don't see it as unfair though. They could have done it the other way but then the Legends themselves would lose all flavor and personality. Then again, a lot of folks don't see it as fair that Engineer and Elementalist don't have a weapon swap. I think it comes down to whether or not you adapt to what the playstyle demands of you.

[wwDefuser.2056]

The Current Rank 2 in eu plays revenant .

--> So it is possible to play it higher than plat.

 

For further Education watch aka cryptics Rev-PvP-Guide on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzXEenqYjlM

Sadly it's not up to date, but the actual playstyle didn't change.

 

What may not be considered in the vids directly is to manage your active facets (glint) in perspektive of incoming CC.

Make sure you are always able to instantly stunbreak when you are focused - on glint you have only 1 Stunbreak, if it's on cooldown you should instantly activate your healskill (passive life-regen) so u are able to pop the 2cond part of the heal any time.

If both skills are on cd you should have Legend-swap ready or you have a really big problem :D.

 

The rest ... how you rotate the weapons or Legends is personal preference and after all dependend on your enemy.

 

 

(it feels like my expression is getting worse with any further post^^)

[EnderzShadow.2506]

 

> @"wwDefuser.2056" said:

> The Current Rank 2 in eu plays revenant .

> --> So it is possible to play it higher than plat.

>

> For further Education watch aka cryptics Rev-PvP-Guide on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzXEenqYjlM

> Sadly it's not up to date, but the actual playstyle didn't change.

>

> What may not be considered in the vids directly is to manage your active facets (glint) in perspektive of incoming CC.

> Make sure you are always able to instantly stunbreak when you are focused - on glint you have only 1 Stunbreak, if it's on cooldown you should instantly activate your healskill (passive life-regen) so u are able to pop the 2cond part of the heal any time.

> If both skills are on cd you should have Legend-swap ready or you have a really big problem :D.

>

> The rest ... how you rotate the weapons or Legends is personal preference and after all dependend on your enemy.

>

>

> (it feels like my expression is getting worse with any further post^^)

 

I understand you just fine :)

 

Im watching the video now and comparing the traits...

 

and, well, is it just me or did ANET change some traits that were helpful for survivability and dmg?

They haven't even made changes in minors that could help Revs survivability.

 

Before I made a rev, I heard all kinds of things from the pvp community like "Revs damage just keeps getting buffed

cause the class is so broken and it's a full design flaw and it needs a full rework."

 

But now, I am a little miffed, because that's not true. Dmg might of been raised but survivability has never been fixed in even

the simplest of fixes.

I know other revenants have most likely pointed this stuff out but it just seems so easy, why hasn't it been done?

 

For instance, Why is cleansing channel only 1 condi removed on legend swap? On my Druid I can cleanse 13 conditions

just going into Avatar. With ONE utility I can send ALL conditions to my pet. With a couple of traits I can cleanse a whole

host of conditions with one crazy good heal in Troll Unguent and thats on a 20 sec cd. And it TICKS for 10 of those seconds.

 

But 1 condi cleanse on10 sec cd Legend swap is supposed to mean something? How about cleanses 3 damaging conditions, cleanses all

movement impairing effects and immune to movement impairing effects for 5 seconds?

 

Incensed response was nerfed from 5 might down to 2.

Oh look everyone, all that dmg that Revs have, that was nerfed.

 

Surprised they didn't nerf Empty Vessel Break stun on legend swap.

 

Swift gale, the minor in Herald gives you superspeed after a stun break.

In the video the guy says that would let you reposition.

And now its crystal harbinger. which seems kind of meh.

 

Vigorous persistence is gone, another trait that would help survivability, -regen 25 percent of Endurance as long as you have an upkeep skill.

 

Envoy of Sustenance used to be 240 concentration, now it's only 120. Having more boons active, to me at least means more survivability.

 

 

Would it be overpowered if,

Revenants once again had incensed response back to 5 might,

swift gale with the super speed after breaking stun

Vigorous persistence with 25 percent regen

And a much improved condi cleanse on a 10 second Legend

 

I think that just might put Revenants on a equal footing against Mirages and Soulbeasts.

 

 

[narcx.3570]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > On one hand, the damage can be a bit nuts

> >

> > No, rev damage is the lowest.

> >

> > Stop saying this??? It’s the lowest by far.

> >

> > You play rev in plat by just being better at the game though. It’s no real tricks. Get a handle of the skills and play better using the terrain to your advantage.

>

> Well, I guess it's low compared to what I am used to playing, or at least much BURSTIER than what I am used to playing, that being a Sanctuary/Palladin Soulbeast.

> With that class, sure I can down people. But mostly they are fights of attrition and not 1, 2, 3 and 3/4's of their life is gone.

 

Talking about Rev damage is conflicting beeeecause; as a Rev, you will never get Top Damage on your team (if your team is winning) because you can't stay in a fight long enough to dole out consistent numbers... If fact, you'll never even get close to it on any winning team (probably around 20-25% of team damage contribution on a team with 1-2 bunkers.) Your inability to stay in a fight very long is compounded by the fact that you're almost always going to be the primary focus-target in a team fight, which means you're using your energy less yolo than you want, saving it for ripostes, spending time on staff, etc.

 

That's not to say Rev's damage potential is kitten... You have a ton of burst and can blow people up hard in the right circumstance. So, I think when people say that Rev has "broken-OP damage" or "kitten-tier damage," they're just talking about two different things.

 

I actually started trying in PvP again this season cuz I want the new shiny chest piece, and am currently in that up and down limbo between Gold 3 and Plat 1 depending on the day, so my point of view might not be from the best Rev out there, but I do sort of know what I'm talking about. So to maybe answer some things from your original post in a less toxic way than others have:

 

>As a Rev, I am told I should avoid team fights and always aim to be the +1 like a thief.

>In team fights i get melted.

>If I try to back cap, 1v1 and +1, I run into classes that do that better than Rev imho (soulbeast and Mirage)

 

Rev is generally thought of in the pvp meta circles as a Team Fighter and Roamer (+1)... While you can duel people and are a capable decap/backcap, that puts you in direct contest with the hardest of hard counters, Mirages. It also puts you up against Holo's, Soulbeasts, and Breakers (thiefs will somewhat avoid you, unless they know they're better than you--like a reverse you v mirage situation)... And these aren't terrible matchups for you per-say, but they are skill matches. So it really depends on the game... If your team doesn't have a mirage or thief, you can act as the decapper just fine, but know who you can beat and don't keep trying unwinnable duels cuz yer tilted.

 

In team fights, your pressure focus should be: Any called target (while cc'ing the support) > ranged assassins > incoming +1's > scourges. This is at least what works best for me... Your mobility (PT/Deathstrike) can cheese a lot of terrain to jump up ledges and onto people and your gaze can prevent stealth escapes, so you're especially effective as an anti-assassin assassin--also nobody can really run away from you, they can only hope to out pressure you as a team. This is the other big part of rev team-fighting: not dying. You'll almost always be the focus target because pressure shuts down your burst and you have more personal weaknesses and less safety nets than other classes. This all falls on energy management and just overall situational/game awareness... Like, if you think that FB on your team can support you enough, it's okay to go a little yolo with your energy... If not, you need to make sure that you didn't misuse your energy/weapon/legend swaps and leave yourself vulnerable to a cc+burst. This is probably why people say that Rev requires more skill... You have to micromanage yourself a lot more--you can't just blow all your cool downs and then still Elixir S/Endure Pain/Stealth/Distort+Blink to safety when things turn like other classes can; every offensive skill you use systematically leaves less room for defensives ones.

 

[mortrialus.3062]

It absolutely is platinum worthy and in a good place right now. I don't know a lot about _playing_ PvP revenant other than while great it does struggle against conditions still, so avoid Mirages and Scourges when they're going on the offensive. Get used to the defensive rotations of sword 3 > staff 3 > staff 5 > glint to disengage. Be away of terrain that prevents teleportation that players can use against so you don't get baited into unfavorable encounters.

[Ario.8964]

This is what I posted in another thread:

I haven't been playing rev for very long but my little experience with it has shown me the following:

- Positioning is your biggest ally. If you commit to using the terrain around you to LoS and mitigate damage you'll find that you survive a ton better in any fight

- I find starting in shiro to actually be more helpful for fights. I start glint to get some boons going but right before I reach mid I swap to shiro so by the time I engage the enemy I have glint ready for a swap. This allows me to be insanely aggressive at the start and pump out a ton of quick damage while still being able to fall back on glint and infuse light if I get caught in a bad position. Shiro also allows me to use the roll backwards to break out of any immob or stuns I may get hit with at the start of a fight.

- Sustain for rev is dependent on maximizing the benefit you get from your glint heal every time and not taking damage outside of that. You don't get invulns or a bunch of aegis and you don't have a ton of healing so being able to predict what the enemy is doing is a must

- Your condi clear is fairly weak but it's strong enough to 1v1 scourge if you do a lot of poking and withdrawing from the fight. Scourge attacks are fairly slow and highly telegraphed so dodging them isn't too hard, it's just a matter of never letting your guard down or you can get baited and condi bombed really fast.

- Your best damage is from sword 4 and 5 so focus very hard on only using them when you can land them, lots of revs just use them off cd and then have no damage to offer a fight when they miss all of it.

 

Some things to remember:

- Impossible odds is a good thing to combine with sword 3 or any autos (sword 3, IO, and the shiro heal all together is almost a 1 shot on anything that doesn't use some form of hard mitigation and the energy cost to do that combo is fairly low)

- Using leadership runes allows you to have much better condi clear and sustain

- You will have to work harder than anyone else to be successful because rev doesn't carry the player

 

Hope this was helpful.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

>Hope this was helpful.

 

 

It was. Thank you.

Takes a bit of time for these suggestions to sink in.

 

If you don't mind me asking, can you give me an example of using the terrain?

Coming from soulbeast/ranger/druid-- I don't think I every really learned to do that, well, if at all.

That and, if I was ranged I could understand, I mean, that is fairly simple. You stand in a spot where you can get your ranged

dmg off and have a retreat. But the current meta rev is almost purely melee.

 

I know how to stall fights around obstacles and structures in the map but

that doesn't seem to help me much because I cant recover very well and open up again, like say I would be able to

on a ranger with a stealth and a big heal.

 

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I play a lot of Rev, but not a lot of meta Herald. However, something worth noting is that you are not just a melee fighter; between sword 2, 3, 4, and Glint's Elemental Blast and Burst of Strength, you have skills that can put some out some pressure and kite while a bit outside of melee range. You can also cast most of these skills while facing away from the enemy, which helps a lot with kiting.

 

I agree with what @"Ario.8964" said: be diligent with your sword 4 (and 5 to a lesser extent, but this can still be used to close gaps, teleport vertically, or disengage). There are so many Revs I encounter in WvW that blow their sword 4 in the most obvious ways.

 

Also, it's worth noting how Phase Traversal generally works. From what I have observed, if you are trying to teleport vertically, you frequently have to be against the wall in order for it to go through. At least that's been my observation. It is not as smooth or reliable as a shadowstep so don't treat it the same way. Be aware too of the range check. Although you can port from beyond 1200, don't attempt to burst if you are much farther beyond that. Watching a Rev PT>sword 4 while still too far away from me happens way too frequently. Get a good gauge for your range. If you play LB on ranger it may be a bit distorted because the weapon goes beyond 1500.

 

[EnderzShadow.2506]

it's tough...

A big step towards ridiculous difficulty.

I was playing Soulbeast--Druid-- up to plat.

Im in silver 2 with this Rev.

Got fed up with all the tryhards, Cheated on my Rev with my old Girlfriend Soulbeast, and won a game in Silver lol...

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> it's tough...

> A big step towards ridiculous difficulty.

> I was playing Soulbeast--Druid-- up to plat.

> Im in silver 2 with this Rev.

> Got fed up with all the tryhards, Cheated on my Rev with my old Girlfriend Soulbeast, and won a game in Silver lol...

>

 

Yeah, Herald is up there with thief as the highest skill cap builds in the game imo.

[Knighthonor.4061]

I have to disagree with the narrative here that Rev is fine. If you fighting equally skilled players of different class you will get dominated most of the time due to the energy/legend mechanics. Since legends can't change skills they are present and since most legends have their own unique roles, they almost never mix and match together. So switching legends in a fight locks you out of the actual skills you may need, all over one reaction and most of the time those skills aren't any more op than any other class skills since many of them also have CD.

Again this been the narrative excuse to not buff the Revenant, but reality is most skills of any value have Cooldowns AND Energy cost. You can't just spam them and again they not OP compared to other class skills. They just have shorter Cooldowns but only slightly.

 

There are so many flawed weapon skills and legend skills as well. Staff had one of the highest energy cost yet pretty much useless besides a few skills on defense which will practically energy lock you into legend swapping and back to the original problem, you stuck in a legend that don't have skills that fit your situation. Sword 3 is just broken most of the time and exploited to counter it by standing in packs or near walls to glitch it from working. Bow is only good for life stealing period. Hammer is too slow and too many nerfs to the damage which was the slowness counter benefit. It lacks real defense. Sword 5 fails a lot for some reason. Shields I won't even mention. As for legends, demon although has Resliance is honestly terrible at Condition defense. It's just old mechanics grandfathered from the original design which is gone now. Dwarf is useless. Hammers break on walls and other stuff. Road sucks because the duration and number of stability just out right suck to really do anything. It's pretty much a gamble on the procs. The Taunt, lol, the Taunt.... The Elite stun breaking is only good thing, but it has high energy cost. The damage reduction is a huge bummer in practice.

 

There is way more but I just don't have time to do a detailed post on This.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> I have to disagree with the narrative here that Rev is fine. If you fighting equally skilled players of different class you will get dominated most of the time due to the energy/legend mechanics.

 

In the current sPvP meta, Herald is not a dueling class though... Of course you can duel, but you usually have to be better than the person that you're fighting (especially if they're playing a meta dueling spec), cuz yer build's not gonna carry you. :bleep_bloop:

 

When people say Herald's fine tho, they are speaking within the scope of the game mode, and if you stick to what it's considered good at (team fighting, roaming), you will do reasonably well.

[Arkantos.7460]

use resistence rune instead of leadership

you get 8-9s resis all 20 sec instead of 3 random condi remove all 45 sec

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > I have to disagree with the narrative here that Rev is fine. If you fighting equally skilled players of different class you will get dominated most of the time due to the energy/legend mechanics.

>

> In the current sPvP meta, Herald is not a dueling class though... Of course you can duel, but you usually have to be better than the person that you're fighting (especially if they're playing a meta dueling spec), cuz yer build's not gonna carry you. :bleep_bloop:

>

> When people say Herald's fine tho, they are speaking within the scope of the game mode, and if you stick to what it's considered good at (team fighting, roaming), you will do reasonably well.

 

yeah but what you do when you get to a node, that you eh 'roamed to' and then there is someone there, just turn around?

If people chase me, I'mtypically eff'd.

 

And when I come into a siuation where a teammate is getting 1v2'd I cant magically save him cause hes usually at half health or less and is getting CC'd.

 

There isn't always going to be a team fight. And if there is, I can only really turn the fight if the players are good enough to stomp or finish downs that I lit up, again---a HUGE weakness this class has.

If the other team is fighting tanky classes in group fights....ugh. Just too much dmg mitigation.

[otto.5684]

Rev herald is top tier, but it hard countered by mirage. You should be okay as long as you do focus on eliminating high priority enemy targets and just do not sit in the middle of a fight.

 

Side note, I dunno why everyone tries to judge a build based on its “dueling” capabilities. The game is not balanced around dueling and herald is good against most power builds.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Rev herald is top tier, but it hard countered by mirage. You should be okay as long as you do focus on eliminating high priority enemy targets and just do not sit in the middle of a fight.

>

> Side note, I dunno why everyone tries to judge a build based on its “dueling” capabilities. The game is not balanced around dueling and herald is good against most power builds.

 

Im not going to stop playing the class for the following reasons, but you would think being able to 1v1 sure would help.

I would definitely think it important _especially_ if that class is expected to roam.

Unless that is, the map awareness of these Plat 1-3 Revs is just off the charts and they never fight 1v1 on or near points.

 

In SPvP all classes need to be able to escape, stealth or tank dmg.

But that's not revenant.

 

Mesmers, Engineers and Rangers can all either Run away, stealth and reposition or avoid/Tank some dmg

Warrior can tank

Necros can tank and escape in comparable ways to Revs, some of them better.

Guards can tank and heal.

Thieves can stealth, reposition and Run away.

 

What can Revenants do? Not escape, not heal worth a shi#

they certainly cant tank dmg

and they can't stealth.

_They can drop some amazing burst dmg, CC downs/rezzers and chase_

It really doesn't seem like it would be enough, but I guess it is, because people are doing it.

 

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > I have to disagree with the narrative here that Rev is fine. If you fighting equally skilled players of different class you will get dominated most of the time due to the energy/legend mechanics.

> >

> > In the current sPvP meta, Herald is not a dueling class though... Of course you can duel, but you usually have to be better than the person that you're fighting (especially if they're playing a meta dueling spec), cuz yer build's not gonna carry you. :bleep_bloop:

> >

> > When people say Herald's fine tho, they are speaking within the scope of the game mode, and if you stick to what it's considered good at (team fighting, roaming), you will do reasonably well.

>

> yeah but what you do when you get to a node, that you eh 'roamed to' and then there is someone there, just turn around?

> If people chase me, I'mtypically eff'd.

>

> And when I come into a siuation where a teammate is getting 1v2'd I cant magically save him cause hes usually at half health or less and is getting CC'd.

>

> There isn't always going to be a team fight. And if there is, I can only really turn the fight if the players are good enough to stomp or finish downs that I lit up, again---a HUGE weakness this class has.

> If the other team is fighting tanky classes in group fights....ugh. Just too much dmg mitigation.

 

This the type of logic that seem to always get thrown out when these type of discussion come up. Nobody can answer with a answer that makes sense. This reminds me of playing a Return paladin back in TBC World of Warcraft before they finally buffed the melee damage. That class was also gutted and had a major disadvantage in PvP since it didn't have the PvP stat Reliance or whatever it was called. People justified that gross unbalanced by saying hey Ret paladin still have heals so they shouldn't get the same damage reduction from player crits like other classes.

 

Well fast forward to today, and jump to another MMO and same argument is used to justify this poor class design for Revenant. The main excuse I have seen over the years is that the Rev has access to two heals and that it can spam abilities and has shorter Cooldowns on very powerful abilities, etc...

 

Anybody who actually play the class know this is BS excuses. As stated already, none of the Revenant abilities are any more stronger than other classes. In fact I say other classes have better skills but no energy mechanic and legend mechanic limiting them.

 

What all the people here talking about "Revenant just require skill to play" are leaving out is that you have to actually be more skilled than the players you are up against. Not on a equal skill level. This same argument was used to justify not buffing Ret Paladin in WoW for so long. Balanced around fighting people below your skill level instead of balanced against other classes played by equally skilled players. Revenant is not going to beat more classes when skill level is equal. 1v1 matches is totally part of this game's SPvP. Anybody that tell you otherwise is being deceptive. Yes team fights are important, but notice good SPvP classes don't need to make total sacrifices like Revenant do to be both useful in a duel and in a team fight in SPvP.

 

The energy system and legend system is just straight up trash and was badly designed. Anet and it's developers just refuse to admit this publicly for PR reasons that the class was rushed out the door in HoT without proper testing and design philosophy. Right now we still seeing parts of the class that was grandfathered in from old designs that don't even exist anymore.

 

As I said, energy hampers the ability use, and the legends as well especially when they don't synergize with each other most of the time. Look at SPvP Ventari, totally USELESS.... Can't use that at all, it's that badly designed, with no fixes in sight. There is just so much wrong. I can't put it all into one post. This class is broken. I play this class the most because the concept seem cool and I have hope that someday Anet will wake up and just be open about this problem at least. That's a start.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

Oh well, I dont expect to get anywhere Rank wise

I've enjoyed all aspects of the game thus far and I keep finding something else to tinker and enjoy.

Rev is a fun distraction in my super low rank pvp atm and in between games, Im tp flipping which is fun too.

 

/shrug

Thanks for the advice, Ill keep learning

 

/Cheers

[Dace.8173]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > I have to disagree with the narrative here that Rev is fine. If you fighting equally skilled players of different class you will get dominated most of the time due to the energy/legend mechanics.

>

> In the current sPvP meta, Herald is not a dueling class though... Of course you can duel, but you usually have to be better than the person that you're fighting (especially if they're playing a meta dueling spec), cuz yer build's not gonna carry you. :bleep_bloop:

>

> When people say Herald's fine tho, they are speaking within the scope of the game mode, and if you stick to what it's considered good at (team fighting, roaming), you will do reasonably well.

 

I agree. I see this a lot for many professions and Elites. People try to use it in a way that it isn't designed to or sucks at and pay the price for it. But I've noticed that people are really stuck on flavor regardless of the playstyle of that profession or Elite so instead of people recognizing that there is a disconnect between what the profession or Elite is good at and what the player really wants to do folks say the profession or Elite is bad.

 

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > I have to disagree with the narrative here that Rev is fine. If you fighting equally skilled players of different class you will get dominated most of the time due to the energy/legend mechanics.

> >

> > In the current sPvP meta, Herald is not a dueling class though... Of course you can duel, but you usually have to be better than the person that you're fighting (especially if they're playing a meta dueling spec), cuz yer build's not gonna carry you. :bleep_bloop:

> >

> > When people say Herald's fine tho, they are speaking within the scope of the game mode, and if you stick to what it's considered good at (team fighting, roaming), you will do reasonably well.

>

> yeah but what you do when you get to a node, that you eh 'roamed to' and then there is someone there, just turn around?

> If people chase me, I'mtypically eff'd.

>

> And when I come into a siuation where a teammate is getting 1v2'd I cant magically save him cause hes usually at half health or less and is getting CC'd.

>

> There isn't always going to be a team fight. And if there is, I can only really turn the fight if the players are good enough to stomp or finish downs that I lit up, again---a HUGE weakness this class has.

> If the other team is fighting tanky classes in group fights....ugh. Just too much dmg mitigation.

 

Well, yeah you can run if you know you're not better than that guy. Also, if they are on that node they shouldn't be able to catch you. You'll have a head start and you do have two movement abilities (and a staff push) that can help you escape from most people who are far off, sans Deadeyes and Rangers who have extreme range of fire. However, if you pay attention to your mini-map you shouldn't have this problem as you'll see that there is a person at the node before you get there and spot them. You can also use it to count the number of opponents in a fight against one of yours to know in advance if they are worth saving. If the guy you see a teammate in a 1v2 and they look like they are losing then you simply don't engage. This is one of those situational awareness things. Knowing when to go help out a teammate vs deciding to find something else to do.

 

Picking bad fights is not the fault of the profession though. Make better use of your tools. The mini-map is your friend. Use the mini-map and you can avoid a lot of unnecessary fights.

 

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Rev herald is top tier, but it hard countered by mirage. You should be okay as long as you do focus on eliminating high priority enemy targets and just do not sit in the middle of a fight.

>

> Side note, I dunno why everyone tries to judge a build based on its “dueling” capabilities. The game is not balanced around dueling and herald is good against most power builds.

 

Because dueling is cool and fun!!! I've noticed that a lot of folks like to fight other people in PvP even though it's not the focus of PvP. I imagine this is a holdover from other games where such things the focus is, in fact, killing the other guy. I've had far far far faaaaaaarrr too many games where half my team goes to die at mid over and over and over again because that's where the action is at.

 

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> Im not going to stop playing the class for the following reasons, but you would think being able to 1v1 sure would help.

> I would definitely think it important _especially_ if that class is expected to roam.

> Unless that is, the map awareness of these Plat 1-3 Revs is just off the charts and they never fight 1v1 on or near points.

>

> In SPvP all classes need to be able to escape, stealth or tank dmg.

> But that's not revenant.

>

> Mesmers, Engineers and Rangers can all either Run away, stealth and reposition or avoid/Tank some dmg

> Warrior can tank

> Necros can tank and escape in comparable ways to Revs, some of them better.

> Guards can tank and heal.

> Thieves can stealth, reposition and Run away.

>

> What can Revenants do? Not escape, not heal worth a shi#

> they certainly cant tank dmg

> and they can't stealth.

> _They can drop some amazing burst dmg, CC downs/rezzers and chase_

> It really doesn't seem like it would be enough, but I guess it is, because people are doing it.

>

 

Being able to 1v1 could help with roaming but roaming is about being mobile, not dueling. I think that's a step a lot of people miss if you're a roamer your job isn't combat but staying on the move and caping points. Also, Revenant can escape, if you know what you're doing with it. Once you're engaged in a fight you'll have trouble escaping but a lot of professions and Elites have trouble disengaging and getting away.

 

You can run away if you make good use of your movement abilities. Revenant healing can work really well if you are using it properly.

 

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

 

> This the type of logic that seem to always get thrown out when these type of discussion come up. Nobody can answer with a answer that makes sense. This reminds me of playing a Return paladin back in TBC World of Warcraft before they finally buffed the melee damage. That class was also gutted and had a major disadvantage in PvP since it didn't have the PvP stat Reliance or whatever it was called. People justified that gross unbalanced by saying hey Ret paladin still have heals so they shouldn't get the same damage reduction from player crits like other classes.

 

To run away: You use Facet of the Elements for Swiftness and book it. You can also use Surging Mists to push you further away. Or you can use Impossible Odds, though while you may move faster Facet of Elements can last longer. If you're engaged in combat you can just execute a series of Riposting Shadows, then do Facet of Elements and Surging Mists to push you away. However, lots of folks have trouble getting away once engaged in combat.

 

To Heal: For a quick heal you can swap to Shiro and use Enchanged Daggers. Then you use Glint and Facet of Light for the regeneration and pop Infusion of Light.

 

> Anybody who actually play the class know this is BS excuses. As stated already, none of the Revenant abilities are any more stronger than other classes. In fact I say other classes have better skills but no energy mechanic and legend mechanic limiting them.

 

A lot of people seem to disagree with you about the BS excuses. Folks who play the profession have been giving tips on what to do.

 

 

> What all the people here talking about "Revenant just require skill to play" are leaving out is that you have to actually be more skilled than the players you are up against. Not on a equal skill level. This same argument was used to justify not buffing Ret Paladin in WoW for so long. Balanced around fighting people below your skill level instead of balanced against other classes played by equally skilled players. Revenant is not going to beat more classes when skill level is equal. 1v1 matches is totally part of this game's SPvP. Anybody that tell you otherwise is being deceptive. Yes team fights are important, but notice good SPvP classes don't need to make total sacrifices like Revenant do to be both useful in a duel and in a team fight in SPvP.

 

Well, yeah you do have to be better than the other player. Most micromanage factions in a game require you to be the better player, period. This isn't a flaw or a drawback. It's how these types of factions works. The appeal of them is being able to rise to that level of skill. Not everyone profession needs to be equally easy to play or equally easy to get the same results. That's why folks say new players should start out on Warrior because it doesn't require as much initial skill to do well with it (though a skilled Warrior is hands down awesome). The same applies with something like Mesmer, you will likely win easier on that profession (though skilled Mesmers are a nightmare).

 

Also, a profession that isn't meant to 1v1 isn't going to win a lot of them easily. Not everything needs to be able to 1v1. That would be the case if PvP in this game was 100% about dueling. However, that's not the case. As a matter of fact, you can't win games on dueling alone. You can outplay a team not by killing them more but just being able to be able to maintain control of the field better. In a competitive game where it's possible to win not by pure deaths alone but a combination of map manipulation and guile not being able to 1v1 is fine.

 

I've had games where I didn't get a single kill in but was still a major part of the win because I got the highest points in offense or defense.

 

 

> The energy system and legend system is just straight up trash and was badly designed. Anet and it's developers just refuse to admit this publicly for PR reasons that the class was rushed out the door in HoT without proper testing and design philosophy. Right now we still seeing parts of the class that was grandfathered in from old designs that don't even exist anymore.

 

Folks feel otherwise. There are plenty of folks who do not see the Engergy system or the Legend system as straight up trash. Also, if you consider it trash then why spend so much time with it?

 

> As I said, energy hampers the ability use, and the legends as well especially when they don't synergize with each other most of the time. Look at SPvP Ventari, totally USELESS.... Can't use that at all, it's that badly designed, with no fixes in sight. There is just so much wrong. I can't put it all into one post. This class is broken. I play this class the most because the concept seem cool and I have hope that someday Anet will wake up and just be open about this problem at least. That's a start.

 

Energy doesn't really hamper all that much. Also, just because Ventari doesn't work well in PvP doesn't mean the profession is trash or bad. Not every element of a profession is going to work well in all modes. All the other professions and Elites have traits and skills that they don't use in every mode of play.

 

 

[narcx.3570]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > yeah but what you do when you get to a node, that you eh 'roamed to' and then there is someone there, just turn around?

 

That's not really what roaming refers to in scope of sPvP... The last thing you want to do is blindly roam to a point, see that there's a mirage standing on it already capped and then say to yourself, welp I guess I'll fight him! Roaming more refers to bouncing between the 2 nodes your team is controlling/contesting to tilt the fights in your team's favor or to intercept people that are trying to get to a node that your team controls off point and delay them from getting there as much as possible--either landing as many free hits as you can or forcing them to fight you in the open, where your mobility can be better used and they are essentially wasting their time while the point continues to run up the score for your side.

 

> As I said, energy hampers the ability use, and the legends as well especially when they don't synergize with each other most of the time. Look at SPvP Ventari, totally USELESS.... Can't use that at all, it's that badly designed, with no fixes in sight.

 

The problem's not really with Ventari, but with the fact that both Glint and Shiro are basically 100% mandatory with the current state of Rev and the current meta. There's just too many key skills that sit within those two legends to not take them. Ventari itself is not necessarily weak in the right hands, it's just that you have to lose either Glint and Shiro to take it. And if you lose Glint, you're losing your only invulnerability skill, your only way to kill stealth classes, and your only way to stop a power rez since Impossible Odds lost perma-quickness (Facet of Chaos' ability to move the downed person away from the invulnerable/stability stacked rezzer.) Now if you go the other route and drop Shiro, you lose all mobility, and will be quickly destroyed by a level of cc-spam/focus fire that nobody could hope to heal through.

 

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> But I've noticed that people are really stuck on flavor regardless of the playstyle of that profession or Elite so instead of people recognizing that there is a disconnect between what the profession or Elite is good at and what the player really wants to do folks say the profession or Elite is bad.

 

Exactly this... No class (except maybe necro) has more people playing it for the lore and like, roleplaying(?) aspect of the class than Rev does. They come for the cool Deathknighty vibe, blindfold skins, and gw1 nostalgia, and then get enraged by the class not being as face roll as Guard/War. There's just so many posts on the forums that basically amount to "Make Rev play exactly like guardian and warrior." The sad thing is that there's not really a solution for these people other then like, don't pvp on Rev--but that's not a real solution.