Reflection should scale off of the attackers stats

[apharma.3741]

This entire thread makes very little sense and is full of uninformed people.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect

[borgs.6103]

WTF? Reflect literally reflects whatever damage it was, including effects to the attacker unless the attack was unblockable.

 

OP you might be confusing Reflect with Retaliation, giving your wording of "how it scales in PVE".

[Klipso.8653]

As a support guardian, I have actually downed myself by dropping a reflect bubble in an SMC fight. The retal damage from players hitting themselves melted me almost instantly.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"borgs.6103" said:

> kitten? Reflect literally reflects whatever damage it was, including effects to the attacker unless the attack was unblockable.

>

> OP you might be confusing Reflect with Retaliation, giving your wording of "how it scales in PVE".

 

Does not include precision, ferocity and condition damage. Meaning at best you're doing the damage of soldier gear.

[borgs.6103]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"borgs.6103" said:

> > kitten? Reflect literally reflects whatever damage it was, including effects to the attacker unless the attack was unblockable.

> >

> > OP you might be confusing Reflect with Retaliation, giving your wording of "how it scales in PVE".

>

> Does not include precision, ferocity and condition damage. Meaning at best you're doing the damage of soldier gear.

 

I doubt that but even if that's the case, it's still the _same damage_ in WvW as it is in PvE.

[lodjur.1284]

I don't see how PvE is related to anything, but that is the case you can look it up on the wiki if you doubt it.

[Arzurag.7506]

I can already imagine the complaints of those classes that literally kill themselves by shooting their high-damage ability at someone with retaliation.^^

 

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> I can already imagine the complaints of those classes that literally kill themselves by shooting their high-damage ability at someone with retaliation.^^

>

>

 

Reflect not retal

[Stand The Wall.6987]

so a minstrel guard can do zerk damage vs all the ranged? that sounds like a really bad idea. might as well put a ban on all ranged in wvw.

[UfoCoffee.2084]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > I don't care how it scales in PvE. KIll something in 2 minutes or 1 minute 58 seconds who cares.

> >

> > I shouldn't be able to literally walk towards an enemy ranger, have him activate quickness with rapid fire while I activate magnetic aura while still literally just walking towards him and have him be so bad at the game that he eats his entire cast INCLUDING his point blank shot yet he takes only 6k damage total. If someone is THAT bad then they should be punished for it. (That goes for many other things as well but let's just leave kitten at reflection)

>

> Nah it's okay that if you miss your reflect you take 19k from rapid fire, but if they literally just keep spamming into reflect nothing happens. Risk-reward only applies when talking about stats. The ranged power burst classes are considered high-risk already because they run berserker, no amount of invulns/evades/movement skills/range can ever make that no high-risk /sarcasm

 

So you don't dodge at the right time or try using LOS and also miss your reflect and invuln cd? Sounds like you need to get better at your class. Also 19k? You in full berserker?

 

There's so much projectile hate out there that the only class a longbow ranger or deadeye can reliably kill from range is a scourge nowadays.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > > I don't care how it scales in PvE. KIll something in 2 minutes or 1 minute 58 seconds who cares.

> > >

> > > I shouldn't be able to literally walk towards an enemy ranger, have him activate quickness with rapid fire while I activate magnetic aura while still literally just walking towards him and have him be so bad at the game that he eats his entire cast INCLUDING his point blank shot yet he takes only 6k damage total. If someone is THAT bad then they should be punished for it. (That goes for many other things as well but let's just leave kitten at reflection)

> >

> > Nah it's okay that if you miss your reflect you take 19k from rapid fire, but if they literally just keep spamming into reflect nothing happens. Risk-reward only applies when talking about stats. The ranged power burst classes are considered high-risk already because they run berserker, no amount of invulns/evades/movement skills/range can ever make that no high-risk /sarcasm

>

> So you don't dodge at the right time or try using LOS and also miss your reflect and invuln cd? Sounds like you need to get better at your class. Also 19k? You in full berserker?

>

> There's so much projectile hate out there that the only class a longbow ranger or deadeye can reliably kill from range is a scourge nowadays.

 

First off if your class is Ele, War, Necro, Guard or condi Rev (and to a lesser degree holosmith and power rev) there's actually very little counterplay available. You have your 2-4 dodges and 1-2 invulns and bad - medium mobility. These classes can't beat a soulbeast played by even a mediocre player.

 

Rapid fire takes 2 dodges (when used without quickness) and has 10 sec cd and 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Not to mention each auto attack does so much damage you need to Dodge them. 19k is on the higher end of what you can get hit for in TB armor lol, 12-15k (with sic' em ofc) is the norm (in full toughness gear), not really much better...

 

Even more or less unbuffed auto attacks do 3k+ against targets in full toughness armor with protection. Dodging each one is hardly feasible, not all classes have that many invulns (espec since blocks do nothing). LoS is not always available.

 

If you play any of the 4-6 classes with less mobility than ranger you will never kill one that has any semblance of skill (thankfully most don't).

 

Projectile hate is useless when there is so much unblockable. Soulbeast has access to 1-3 on demand unblockables depending on the build.

 

Currently the only class that can really fight soulbeast without being disadvantaged is mirage (even thief has an unfavorable mu AFAIK due to SB having many skills that are very powerful in that mu)

 

[UfoCoffee.2084]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > > > I don't care how it scales in PvE. KIll something in 2 minutes or 1 minute 58 seconds who cares.

> > > >

> > > > I shouldn't be able to literally walk towards an enemy ranger, have him activate quickness with rapid fire while I activate magnetic aura while still literally just walking towards him and have him be so bad at the game that he eats his entire cast INCLUDING his point blank shot yet he takes only 6k damage total. If someone is THAT bad then they should be punished for it. (That goes for many other things as well but let's just leave kitten at reflection)

> > >

> > > Nah it's okay that if you miss your reflect you take 19k from rapid fire, but if they literally just keep spamming into reflect nothing happens. Risk-reward only applies when talking about stats. The ranged power burst classes are considered high-risk already because they run berserker, no amount of invulns/evades/movement skills/range can ever make that no high-risk /sarcasm

> >

> > So you don't dodge at the right time or try using LOS and also miss your reflect and invuln cd? Sounds like you need to get better at your class. Also 19k? You in full berserker?

> >

> > There's so much projectile hate out there that the only class a longbow ranger or deadeye can reliably kill from range is a scourge nowadays.

>

> First off if your class is Ele, War, Necro, Guard or condi Rev (and to a lesser degree holosmith and power rev) there's actually very little counterplay available. You have your 2-4 dodges and 1-2 invulns and bad - medium mobility. These classes can't beat a soulbeast played by even a mediocre player.

>

> Rapid fire takes 2 dodges (when used without quickness) and has 10 sec cd and 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Not to mention each auto attack does so much damage you need to Dodge them. 19k is on the higher end of what you can get hit for in TB armor lol, 12-15k (with sic' em ofc) is the norm (in full toughness gear), not really much better...

>

> Even more or less unbuffed auto attacks do 3k+ against targets in full toughness armor with protection. Dodging each one is hardly feasible, not all classes have that many invulns (espec since blocks do nothing). LoS is not always available.

>

> If you play any of the 4-6 classes with less mobility than ranger you will never kill one that has any semblance of skill (thankfully most don't).

>

> Projectile hate is useless when there is so much unblockable. Soulbeast has access to 1-3 on demand unblockables depending on the build.

>

> Currently the only class that can really fight soulbeast without being disadvantaged is mirage (even thief has an unfavorable mu AFAIK due to SB having many skills that are very powerful in that mu)

>

 

In an open area like WvW I agree it's a pain to be hit from so far away but you need to use your surroundings more and not be caught in the open.

 

The op unkillable build that everyone complains about doesn't even use longbow. If you mean sic em ranger. They are squishy as hell and can be killed pretty easy. Also a lot of bad played seem to be drawn to this build and class in WvW so they are just loot bags 99% of the time.

 

Also beast mode is on a 10sec cd so you can say they can use it every ten seconds but this never happens as they are obviously using their merged skills and switching pets etc. So depending on the fight they could use it then use some merged skills then unmerge so maybe 20 seconds?

 

No ranger takes signet of the hunt? It's passive gives you +25% move speed which is completely wasted. Not sure what other unblockable you mean that soulbeast could use?

 

Btw I'm a thief main and have been one shot by a SB showing up out of nowhere and point blank shotting me and then rapid fire when my shadow step was down so I feel your pain. I just think there's too much projectile hate out there now.

 

You can't hit a mesmer from range now as they have almost permanent relfect. You could kill yourself from retal aoeing into a zerg.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said:

> > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > > @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > > > > I don't care how it scales in PvE. KIll something in 2 minutes or 1 minute 58 seconds who cares.

> > > > >

> > > > > I shouldn't be able to literally walk towards an enemy ranger, have him activate quickness with rapid fire while I activate magnetic aura while still literally just walking towards him and have him be so bad at the game that he eats his entire cast INCLUDING his point blank shot yet he takes only 6k damage total. If someone is THAT bad then they should be punished for it. (That goes for many other things as well but let's just leave kitten at reflection)

> > > >

> > > > Nah it's okay that if you miss your reflect you take 19k from rapid fire, but if they literally just keep spamming into reflect nothing happens. Risk-reward only applies when talking about stats. The ranged power burst classes are considered high-risk already because they run berserker, no amount of invulns/evades/movement skills/range can ever make that no high-risk /sarcasm

> > >

> > > So you don't dodge at the right time or try using LOS and also miss your reflect and invuln cd? Sounds like you need to get better at your class. Also 19k? You in full berserker?

> > >

> > > There's so much projectile hate out there that the only class a longbow ranger or deadeye can reliably kill from range is a scourge nowadays.

> >

> > First off if your class is Ele, War, Necro, Guard or condi Rev (and to a lesser degree holosmith and power rev) there's actually very little counterplay available. You have your 2-4 dodges and 1-2 invulns and bad - medium mobility. These classes can't beat a soulbeast played by even a mediocre player.

> >

> > Rapid fire takes 2 dodges (when used without quickness) and has 10 sec cd and 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Not to mention each auto attack does so much damage you need to Dodge them. 19k is on the higher end of what you can get hit for in TB armor lol, 12-15k (with sic' em ofc) is the norm (in full toughness gear), not really much better...

> >

> > Even more or less unbuffed auto attacks do 3k+ against targets in full toughness armor with protection. Dodging each one is hardly feasible, not all classes have that many invulns (espec since blocks do nothing). LoS is not always available.

> >

> > If you play any of the 4-6 classes with less mobility than ranger you will never kill one that has any semblance of skill (thankfully most don't).

> >

> > Projectile hate is useless when there is so much unblockable. Soulbeast has access to 1-3 on demand unblockables depending on the build.

> >

> > Currently the only class that can really fight soulbeast without being disadvantaged is mirage (even thief has an unfavorable mu AFAIK due to SB having many skills that are very powerful in that mu)

> >

>

> In an open area like WvW I agree it's a pain to be hit from so far away but you need to use your surroundings more and not be caught in the open.

 

> The op unkillable build that everyone complains about doesn't even use longbow. If you mean sic em ranger. They are squishy as hell and can be killed pretty easy. Also a lot of bad played seem to be drawn to this build and class in WvW so they are just loot bags 99% of the time.

 

Couldn't care less about the tanky build, seems very mediocre for WvW and at least fighting it is slightly less boring.

 

> Also beast mode is on a 10sec cd so you can say they can use it every ten seconds but this never happens as they are obviously using their merged skills and switching pets etc. So depending on the fight they could use it then use some merged skills then unmerge so maybe 20 seconds?

 

Well they can have access to it that often if they're willing to make some small sacrifices, but in truth you really don't need unblock able THAT often, only when there's actually something up.

 

> No ranger takes signet of the hunt? It's passive gives you +25% move speed which is completely wasted. Not sure what other unblockable you mean that soulbeast could use?

 

Warhorn 5 gives unblockable when merged

 

Signet of the hunt isn't good, but if projectile hate was as prominent as some people make it out to be it would be meta.

 

> Btw I'm a thief main and have been one shot by a SB showing up out of nowhere and point blank shotting me and then rapid fire when my shadow step was down so I feel your pain. I just think there's too much projectile hate out there now.

 

There's too much in zergs and too little outside imo. The mesmer passive aside.

 

> You can't hit a mesmer from range now as they have almost permanent relfect. You could kill yourself from retal aoeing into a zerg.

 

Retal is just a dumb mechanic, there's no real counterplay and it doesn't add anything imo. There's few things that tilts me more than when I see 30% of my incoming damage as retal in like 3v10 or something, given how there's nothing to do about it beyond removing more boons lol.

[Mokk.2397]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> Retal is just a dumb mechanic, there's no real counterplay and it doesn't add anything imo. There's few things that tilts me more than when I see 30% of my incoming damage as retal in like 3v10 or something, given how there's nothing to do about it beyond removing more boons lol.

 

Agreed .

It is a dumb mechanic and should be removed entirely from the game.People like to talk about not taking any risk for reward and this boon puts that issue to the top of the list.It's getting to the point where its nearly impossible to to go into combat without killing yourself because of the excessive boon share brought in since PoF. I don't care how anyone tries to defend this .No one should be able to kill someone while they run away or just stand there not have to fight directly.