NECRO BALANCE NOTES

[Methuselah.4376]

So in essence:

PvE players are happy

PvP players are not...are they ever?

 

> @"Scarran.9845" said:

> As it stands we lost might gain from gluttony reducing our damage

>

You do realize autoing in shroud, even without hitting anything, can rank up might fast ya?

 

 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

So, the new Soul Barbs trait does have a bit of anti-synergy with Scourge, since you are guaranteed to lose 4 seconds of the buff (I assume it doesn't stack at all, either in duration or intensity). Still, hitting Desert Shroud is also +10% damage for the next 16 seconds (on a 17 second PvE cooldown, 25.5 PvP/WvW cooldown), so that's not too awful.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

> @"Scarran.9845" said:

> These are awful changes but I do love the amount of juggling they have done in the notes to try and hide the fact that they just nerf'd the spectral line. As it stands we lost might gain from gluttony reducing our damage, we lost protection, stun break and increased life force gain when we hit 50% health from last gasp thus reducing our survivability.

>

> They then increased our shroud skills recharge rate by taking the 20% we now have and making it 15%. The added heal bonus for vital persistence is pretty much useless outwith of scourge, as the last time I played reaper/core we cannot be healed whilst in shroud, so its counter intuitive to the class design. Spectral Walk change is that obscure im not sure if it still provides swiftness and recall with the addition of a condi cleanse or it just cleanses conditions now. Im hoping that it is in addition because if its not the least mobile class just got even worse and I haven't even got into the fact they done all that rework on traits yet left foot in the grave untouched.

>

> I have zero clue why they keep picking things that do not need changed as the soul reaping trait line is one of the strongest for Necro and would not have been my choice of trait lines to get an overhaul.

 

Agreed, nothing in these changes helps a lot of pre-existing power reaper builds and frankly in several cases is a nerf to both survive-ability and outright damage. I truly wish they would just leave Reaper alone, every time they fix one thing they break another.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Scarran.9845" said:

> I have zero clue why they keep picking things that do not need changed as the soul reaping trait line is one of the strongest for Necro and would not have been my choice of trait lines to get an overhaul.

Did you read the patch introduction where they explained the aims for the patch?

 

- reduction of instant burst skills classwide -> on necro: SS, CoD, CN nerf

- continuing to weaken passive procs - > Last Gasp removal

- damage compensation on skill usage and general and further increasing of DPS on reaper -> Soul Barbs introduction (they could only do the damage compensations in SR because Spite/SR/Reaper is mandatory for power based DPS and PvP builds)

- LF compensation -> Soul Battery

- cooldown compensation -> baseline shroud CD reduction in SR

- traited spectral skills were too strong as baseline and too weak non-traited -> they did rework them (but did not do it properly (!))

 

Side effect: spectral skills are jack of all trades now for competetive play on power reaper -> mobility, LF generation, condition cleanse, CC, area denial - all in one category now - in PvP we don't need any other utlities anymore.

 

It's obvious what they intended. Nevertheless it's far from perfect as they forgot Spectral Armor which is definitely too weak now and mostly the reason why I call this a nerf overall.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

In essence a slight nerf to survivability for builds running SR and a clear nerf to "passive" burst. I guess the complaints in PvP got to the devs.

 

To be honest I think that a lot of trait change are well due. The CD reduction to shroud skills needed to go on a minor for build diversity and this have been done. AG being "fixed" is a good thing even if the fix leave a bitter after taste. Procs traits not being able to crit will make them a lot less appaelling, it will affect some necromancer's bursty build in PvP/WvW. _Vital persistence_ will most likely have difficulties to find a place for himself except maybe in scourge's support build, the new bonus will probably see some tweeks in the next balance patch.

 

The greatest loss is on _spectral armor_ uptime, I must say that it hurt a lot, like a whole lot. The most dangerous change on the other hand is probably _death nova_ which will make necromancer's living poison fields in WvW (I think this change is only true bad change of the patch).

 

At first glance I disliked the patch but all in all I can't say that it's a bad patch for the necromancer. Yes, it's mostly nerfs but overall it's pretty well done with well thought compensations.

[Patrick.2987]

Yet you have the shroudskillreduction and with another passive spinal shivers nerf the fearduration stacked with dread is pretty fun on powerbuilds. I like it.

[HardRider.2980]

Adds - Death Magic (3,4,7)

Solo/bosses - Soul Reaping (1/3 depending on player, 4/5/6 depending on build, 8/9 depending on build)

[Noha.3749]

idk feels kinda + / - = 0 for PvE.

 

Power Reaper slightly nerfed for PvP/WvW

Power Scourge kinda.. a bit nerfed.

Condi Scourge kinda the same.

Support Scourge slightly better (but not by an impressive margin)

 

Idk what the changes are trying to achieve. Making LF more valuable and doing some other random stuff that wont really change too much? (passive burst procs are getting toned down overall, not only necros)

[ZDragon.3046]

i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

[Psycoprophet.8107]

This surprise u?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Nerf to survivability and damage with no meaning full gain in mobility, nice!

[Lucas.3718]

so necro will become viable now or even make it into the meta ?

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

 

Correct me if I am wrong but, wasn't Spectral Armour by far the best spectral skill? I felt it was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest in terms of usefulness, so I'm not surprised they didn't add anything.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

 

To be fair I think _reaper's protection_ change are there to compensate for the loss of _last gasp_. 4s of protection on a 20 second CD when CC and reduced condition damage taken while under the effect of protection... Coming from ANet, I believe that it's already more than they usually are ready to give. (Not that I won't mourn the LF on spectral skills use or _last gasp_)

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> > Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

>

> To be fair I think _reaper's protection_ change are there to compensate for the loss of _last gasp_. 4s of protection on a 20 second CD when CC and reduced condition damage taken while under the effect of protection... Coming from ANet, I believe that it's already more than they usually are ready to give. (Not that I won't mourn the LF on spectral skills use or _last gasp_)

 

Personally, I would have loved seeing Reaper's Protection pop a Corrosive Poison Cloud instead of a PBAoE Fear. That is some real defense to help you through being disabled.

 

On the upside, they did make the trait do something even when it's not triggered, making it more generally useful.

 

Biggest frustration of this patch: *THEY LOOKED AT DEATH MAGIC LINE AND DIDN'T TOUCH SOUL COMPREHENSION*

[XECOR.2814]

Did we lose a passive stunbreak? Correct me if im wrong. I think maybe they overlooked it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> > Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

>

> Correct me if I am wrong but, wasn't Spectral Armour by far the best spectral skill? I felt it was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest in terms of usefulness, so I'm not surprised they didn't add anything.

 

I think he means with these changes spectral walk etc was compensated for the over all nerf to spectral skills exept spectral armor which got no compensation and just nerfed yet was the best of the lot and now it’s just ok and other spectral skills went from meh to ok

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> Biggest frustration of this patch: *THEY LOOKED AT DEATH MAGIC LINE AND DIDN'T TOUCH SOUL COMPREHENSION*

 

True I had the exact same thought. Well, they said that they looked specifically at SR not at DM, it's just that they tried a silly change on _death nova_ and _fear of death_ with a bug fix on a trait that I'm sure nobody knew that there was a bug. Most likely they aren't ready to take on DM.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I may be mistaken

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> > Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

>

> To be fair I think _reaper's protection_ change are there to compensate for the loss of _last gasp_. 4s of protection on a 20 second CD when CC and reduced condition damage taken while under the effect of protection... Coming from ANet, I believe that it's already more than they usually are ready to give. (Not that I won't mourn the LF on spectral skills use or _last gasp_)

 

20 second cool down is not accurate compensation for that in pvp setting to be honest. we are talking about a skill that generated quite a bit of life force on builds that are often starved for life force. to be fair gaining protection on cc is not going to do much good. If they wanted to do that they could have just had spectral activate like balance stance does on warriors.

 

SOOOOO many little things they could have done to properly compensate for spectral armors loss of the trait and the lesser spectral armor

- can not be critically hit while spectral armor is active

- a few stacks of stability or spectral armors duration

- Base increased time on spectral armor

- a lower cooldown on spectral armor

- charges on spectral armor while reducing the up time to make it more "Active"

 

Even spectral walk is some what poorly executed imo

In the event you simply dont have conditions up near the start or have to end the skill early you lose out completely while now gaining 0 benefit at least before if you got hit regardless you got something. A better buff would have been movement impairing conditions cannot be applied for its duration promoting the mobility benefit of of taking the skill. of all things we did not need sub par passive condition removal here.

 

Spectral Ring was a good call and the only good call out of all of this but even thats slightly screwed by a interval application time thats likely longer than the base fear. We didnt see other walls and rings (that are weapon skills no less) that knock back get this treatment im not sure why spectral wall needed to get that for as weak of a condition as fear is.

 

This is a bit overly annoying to me

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> 20 second cool down is not accurate compensation for that in pvp setting to be honest. we are talking about a skill that generated quite a bit of life force on builds that are often starved for life force. to be fair gaining protection on cc is not going to do much good. If they wanted to do that they could have just had spectral activate like balance stance does on warriors.

>

Look... This is ANet. 20s CD on 4s prot is huge for them. No honnestly, the important part is the 20% condi damage reduction while under the effect of protection and the incensitive to build for protection that wasn't there before. I'm not saying that the loss of survivability isn't huge but, on the long run I believe the necromancer will take globally less damage while it's sustain suffer a great loss.

 

> SOOOOO many little things they could have done to properly compensate for spectral armors loss of the trait and the lesser spectral armor

> - can not be critically hit while spectral armor is active

OP.

> - a few stacks of stability or spectral armors duration

Maybe

> - Base increased time on spectral armor

might happen

> - a lower cooldown on spectral armor

I doubt it

> - charges on spectral armor while reducing the up time to make it more "Active"

No way.

>

> Even spectral walk is some what poorly executed imo

> In the event you simply dont have conditions up near the start or have to end the skill early you lose out completely while now gaining 0 benefit at least before if you got hit regardless you got something. A better buff would have been movement impairing conditions cannot be applied for its duration promoting the mobility benefit of of taking the skill. of all things we did not need sub par passive condition removal here.

>

If you don't take into account the trait _spectral mastery_ the skill itself was greatly buffed.

 

> Spectral Ring was a good call and the only good call out of all of this but even thats slightly screwed by a interval application time thats likely longer than the base fear. We didnt see other walls and rings (that are weapon skills no less) that knock back get this treatment im not sure why spectral wall needed to get that for as weak of a condition as fear is.

>

> This is a bit overly annoying to me

 

I agree that _Spectral ring_'s change is somewhat awkward. I'm also pretty sure that ANet didn't remove the maximum number of time the skill can trigger. I prefered the skill as it was at release, applying vulnerability on foes and prot on allies. Had they made it into a ring pulsing those effects this would have been an extremly good skill in the current game. Having to pass throught it to gain the effect just don't feel "good" on use but somehow suit the CC.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> > > Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

> >

> > Correct me if I am wrong but, wasn't Spectral Armour by far the best spectral skill? I felt it was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest in terms of usefulness, so I'm not surprised they didn't add anything.

>

> I think he means with these changes spectral walk etc was compensated for the over all nerf to spectral skills exept spectral armor which got no compensation and just nerfed yet was the best of the lot and now it’s just ok and other spectral skills went from meh to ok

 

I mean in comparing it to break stun like skill throughout the entire game. Spectral armor was the best of all the spectral skills yes but if you start looking at other skills in the game that are often used to break stun or for a short time reduce damage or improve sustain it was by far one of the weakest.

- You could get stunned > break stun> get stunned right after because no stability

- The protection could be ripped off easily making it so damage was not reduced at all.

- It didnt protect you from conditions at all making it have clear cut counter play.

- It didnt move you at all or stop projectile damage block attacks etc etc you get what i mean it was by far overall a weaker break stun from the start.

 

Unless that trait that increases LF gain from all sources drastically improves lf gain on weapons reaper is legit screwed without blighters boon. I guess this is their way of indirectly buffing the weight of blighters boon.

 

They just made SR come back into the meta like a few months ago by all means i saw no reason to do this many changes to it granted some of them were nice they didnt even hit some of the traits that needed tune ups the most **foot in the grave** for one.

[RandomNPC.8714]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Spectral skill builds may make better use of runes with protection duration. I need to think about that, more

 

Yeah. With a set of Runes of the Grove, your necro will spawn some real thematic flower bed upon entering combat.

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

no halfway decent changes to really increase any condi necro build damage by that much very disappointing, just making power necro a little better. sad and disappointing. Another update where I hope to see condi necro buffs and again just more disappointment, but I wasn't expecting much anyways so meh

[Zero.3871]

this patch was only a nerf, less cd reduction for shroud skills, less lf reg because last gasp got deleted. we got only nerfes for necros. ist a bad joke, while dmg modifiers and oneshoots on other classes remain we get deleted xD.

 

 

anet is ***...