PvP Experience Altogether: Poor Macro-Level Mechanics and Communication, Excessive Toxicity

[Fontain.4129]

NOTE:

This is a long post. I've broken it up into categories to assist in making it easier to follow and to allow readers / commenters to skim or to navigate effectively. If you do choose to skim, please refrain from jumping to conclusions about perspective, scenarios, etc., as many of these items are addressed (often with qualifiers or caveats) throughout the post. Please be aware this was authored in "one fell swoop" and that grammatical, spelling, or wording errors may be present.

If you don't feel like entertaining such a long post, I understand that, but please refrain from taking up time and space below by expressing your frustration with the lack of brevity; if you have better things to do with your time, by all means, move along and go do them :)

On the other hand, if you're interested in the issue, have suggestions, feedback, similiar frustrations, etc., please share them. Hopefully we can shape some understanding and inspire change.

 

Personal Background / Motivation for Post:

I've been playing GW2 off and on since release, and PvP has been a huge part of my playing experience. While I have since branched out into PvE content and extensively into WvW, when I first started playing this game, I solely played PvP. I was enamored with the ease at which one could change builds and the lack of barriers to entry (whether to the game in general or to a specific / new profession) created by the lack of dependence on gear for stats. I've played thousands of games, be them ranked, unranked, old "team" arenas, etc., and I have experience with every profession. I haven't played every season, but I've participated in most of them. This most recent one has been the most painful, and it's finally driven me to reach out -- in part to vent, but more so to draw attention to issues, and to hopefully to provide a catalyst for a discussion that might: (i) inform players -- myself included; (ii) draw Anet's attention and inspire changes.

 

Summary:

This game has a lot of issues, but the most exhaustive and bothersome one for me isn't inherent in the gameplay, in that it doesn't appear to be related to class balance, mechanics, or game design (such as domination or control-based game modes). For me, the frustration comes from the experience of playing with various subsets of the community, and I'd imagine some of them overlap. I'll expand below. I'd like to preface the forthcoming by stating that, while I consider myself an above average player, I don't think I'm anything special or singular. I'm well aware that there are others that are better than I am -- even far better, and that there are those that are worse. I don't think that the issues I'm going to outline below stem from "skill" or "talent"; they seem to stem from a lack of critical thinking, communication, and desire to work collectively and achieve objectives as a group. I'd also like to point out ahead of time that I am well aware that situation can dictate strategy and that there are times where the assumptions outlined below might not apply. I'm attempting to address common / general / basic / default -- however you want to put it -- situations below, not uncommon ones. And finally, I'd like to make clear that I attempt to play this game for fun; I expect the process to be enjoyable, regardless of the result. By this, I mean that certain losses can be more entertaining than wins (and, it probably goes without saying, vice-versa). And, with that, I'll go on to say that, my personal understanding is that in ideal circumstances (perfect match making -- i.e. equally matched teams in terms of skill, experience, and communication--, competitive team compositions, etc.), one should expect to lose half their games. So, I'm not necessarily as concerned with wins or losses as I am with the quality of those wins and losses. Lately, the quality of both wins and losses has been abysmal, and I feel as though I'm at a breaking point. Put simply: the current GW2 PvP gameplay experience is so often negative that, the majority of the time, the experience is an unrewarding and even punishing use of my time.

 

Issues:

With all that said, here we go. I've broken my complaints into the following categories: (i) failure to understand how the game works on a macro-level; (ii) poor communication; (iii) toxic behavior. I'm aware these issues are prevalent in all online games (including all online forums, and even all forums in general -- even those offline), but they are extremely prevalent in GW2 PvP, and they seem especially bad this season. My feeling is that these issues contribute to and exacerbate one another and that Anet's reward structure, matchmaking tendencies, and toothless reporting system fuel them even more.

 

1. Players don't understand how the game is played (or at the very least, they do, but they don't have a desire to achieve objectives that lead to wins):

By this, I don't mean on a micro-level, such as how specific professions are played or how to 1v1; I'm referring to the macro-level: how points are scored. Quite a few offenders here, albeit probably a minority, are actually players that exhibit a high level of play on a micro-level.

There is a large portion of the playing population that seems to lack an understanding of how points are accumulated (primarily holding points, secondarily scoring kills -- with the exception of map-specific mechanics). They seem to fail to grasp that holding control points translates to more points scored / second than earning kills (I understand this is a generalization and that, if you were to repeatedly kill members of the other team almost immediately after they spawn, you could accumulate points faster via kills than via holding control points, but in the vast majority of cases, this holds true). As a result, I routinely find that players will abandon control points in favor of chasing opponents, even control points that are held by the enemy or are neutral and that are uncontested, almost capped, etc. Players will engage in extended fights off point, despite the other team currently holding the majority (or all) of the control points.

Many players do not seem to understand which control points are, generally speaking (team composition, etc. aside), the most efficient to hold. There is a large subset of the community that seems to favor "far" over "home" or "mid" (in fact, there appear to be players that avoid "home" altogether), despite the fact that the relative distances from spawn areas makes "home" the most efficient to hold and "far" the least. Building off of that, many players appear to fail to grasp that control points are harder to cap than they are to decap and the gameplay mechanics this incentivizes (i.e. a single player, if they remain on a control point, can leverage a scoring advantage in an outnumbered scenario by preventing a cap or a decap for an extended period of time, even if the ultimate result is giving the opponent a kill).

Further, many players seem to lack basic math skills, or at least fail to apply them situationally, in that they struggle to understand how many control points must be held to yield victory given the current score (for example, let's say you're losing 400-440, but recently took control of 2/3 objectives; maintaining control of those 2 objectives while refraining from dying would yield a final score of 500-490, even assuming you don't earn any kills -- map-specific mechanics aside) or whether or not map-specific mechanics should be pursued. They will vacate control points at inopportune times, often throwing away an all-but-guaranteed-win to chase a single uncapped control point, a map-specific mechanic (like "Lord", "Beast", etc.), or a kill.

Lastly, many players do not seem to understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of their classes. Far too often, an individual playing a non-mobile class will rotate to a distant control point, forcing mobile players to compensate by playing in inopportune scenarios (i.e. a necro will repeatedly run far, despite the fact that a teammate playing a core thief is far better suited to do so and has already explicitly indicated they intend to leverage their mobility to decap). This doesn't mean that they are incapable of playing their class on a micro-level; they might win a 1v1 or take a control point, but they seem to fail to grasp the inefficiency inherent in their strategy and the disadvantage it inflicts on their team as a result.

 

2. Players seem to lack a desire to communicate:

There are varying degrees to this issue. Players seem to ignore team chat (and the mini-map) that's related to the game, such as status updates, warnings, or attempts at coordination. They will remain silent when discussing pre-game strategy, and then completely abandon a plan that 4/5 teammates have previously worked together to construct and have agreed to. They'll ignore intel, like updates on enemy players converging on control points, requests to rally to map-specific mechanics or to focus on specific control points, etc.

Worse still, a relatively high percentage of the playing population seems to respond in a hostile manner regardless of the "prompt" (or even in situations where no "prompt" is provided). Even benign and impersonal suggestions, such as suggesting the team concentrate on a given control point, asking a player to forego a strategy (like repeatedly rushing far to die consistently), etc. will trigger aggressive and personal attacks. I don't consider myself a toxic player; I don't use derogatory language directed specifically at players, I don't belittle players or trash talk, and I attempt to frame the feedback I do provide constructively -- in fact, I'll often give players the benefit of the doubt and hold off on providing constructive feedback until a player's repetitive behavior consistently leads to poor results. But, I routinely find that tame suggestions ("could you assist us mid" / "if you're going to pursue an alternate strategy, could you give us a heads-up so we can rotate accordingly and help you out") elicit extremely toxic responses.

This seems to suggest that a subset of the population is uninterested in communication at all (why play a team-based game mode if you aren't interested in working with others?) or is extremely immature.

 

3. Players behave in team and self-sabotaging behavior:

This likely ties into the point above, but the rate of trolling, AFKing, and idling this season seems to have risen exponentially. I routinely win and lose games due to the aforementioned behavior. Players will stop trying after losing a single fight, even if the score remains relatively close and a large amount of time (or projected time, due to total score) remains. Players will engage in this behavior if one of their teammates fails to perform up to their standards or perform an action they desire (a specific res, stomp, rotation, etc.). Sometimes, players will engage in this behavior seemingly randomly, regardless of whether or not the team is winning / losing. They will often continue to move or jump -- often around the spawn area -- to prevent themselves from being identified as idle, and if called out in chat or threatened with a report, they'll often run around random, unoccupied areas of the map. As I expressed above, in ideal circumstances, where both teams have players of exact equal skill, both team comps are equally matched or at least perform strategically and efficiently enough to capitalize on their relative strengths / weaknesses, and both teams communicate to an equal degree, one should expect to win / lose 50% of their games. As such, players should expect that, when they queue for a match, they may not win. As a result, a decrease in win probability should not lead to throwing a game or sabotaging teammates; losses are part of the bargain, and they are part of the experience. Given that situations are not ideal (indeed, they are far from it... significant matchmaking issues, poor team compositions, bad communication, etc.), and recognizing that even the highest ranked player has lost a match, players should understand that, when queuing, a loss is a potential outcome, and by queuing, you are accepting that as part of the experience. Throwing games, even those you are already losing, is a selfish and immature behavior, that punishes 4 teammates in the face of a predictable and expected outcome. With that, I understand that, at various points in a game (perhaps the score might be 50-450), idling or AFKing might be more acceptable than others. I am specifically addressing scenarios in which players do so early on.

 

Causes (and Failures on Anet's part):

 

1. Matchmaking:

I believe much of this behavior is, at the very least, incentivized by the system Anet has in place. While few (probably none) matchmaking systems are perfect, Anet's appears to be particularly bad. I often find myself matched against players that have a significantly lower or higher rating than myself -- even a range of hundreds of points (after leaving a match, you'll see that for example: as a G3, you were paired with an S3 or P2; alternatively, as a P1, you might be paired with a G1). While rating is not indicative of individual skill, such massive ranges within a given match nearly defeat the purpose of rating in average / common tiers entirely. New players are matched with / against players with significantly more experience and skill. This leads to lopsided games, which often results in the issues outlined in the numbered paragraphs above.

 

2. Rewards:

By only providing rewards for ranked games, and by providing "pips" for both wins and losses, Anet incentivizes participation (the investment of time) over performance, completion of objectives, communication, teamwork, etc. For those who are playing to obtain rewards, there is no incentive to play unranked games, as there is nothing to gain from doing so. As such, players can obtain rewards by throwing every game (in an attempt to invest minimal effort and speed up the length of the game) and are often apathetic with regards to the outcome. Players that are testing builds or are not particularly interested in communicating or working with others are incentivized to play ranked games over unranked ones regardless of their approach.

 

3. Toothless reports:

Players (appear to) suffer no consequences for trolling, idling, throwing games, etc. I will routinely be matched with a player that has idled in consecutive games, regardless of the fact that I have reported them for doing so. At times, this will lead to significant strings of ruined games. In addition, players that engage in extremely toxic behavior, like excessively harsh language, name calling, slurs, etc. (the operative word being "excessive") -- behaviors that go beyond casual trash talk or expression of frustration to the point that they absolutely destroy any semblance of camaraderie, teamwork, effective communication, etc. -- (appear to) suffer no consequences.

 

4. Failure to consider "blocks" or reports in matchmaking:

I broke this out from number 1, because I find it especially egregious. One can attempt to deal with excessively toxic players using the "block" functionality (or via reporting); however, Anet does not appear to take this into account when forming teams. As a result, I have found that, after blocking an especially immature and toxic teammate (for example, an individual who only communicates in a belligerent and aggressive manner -- not to coordinate, etc. -- but only to berate, use slurs, caps lock, etc.) in the hopes of avoiding their negative spam in team chat, I will often be paired with them again, sometimes consecutively and upwards of three times in a row. This is simply unacceptable. If you've gone out of your way to make clear that you don't want to interact with another player, and if you've removed the ability to see their chat / communication (preventing effective teamwork), you should not be paired with them. At the very least, you should not be paired with them in the immediate future; I can understand pairing sometime later, significantly down the line.

 

At the end of the day, these factors lead to awful games, regardless of whether the result is a win or a loss. The experience is not rewarding; it's exhausting. This pushes away experienced players, players who are looking for an effective team-based environment, players that value communication, and players that are attempting to play objectives strategically. As a result, the % of the GW2 community engaging in PvP becomes increasingly toxic.

 

As I stated at the outset, it isn't profession imbalance, issues with runes, sigils, amulets, etc. that are pushing me away; I'm turned off by various subsets of the community that engage in: (i) poor gameplay mechanics and a lack of understanding of objectives and strategy; (ii) extremely toxic behavior. These two elements combine to ruin the experience. I've played about 350 games so far this season, and I'd estimate that less than 10% have actually been rewarding -- win or lose -- in that the games were close, teammates coordinated / synergized well, and players made informed and strategic decisions.

 

I'd be interested to hear if others have had a similiar experience, if they also feel this season is significantly worse than prior ones, and if they have potential suggestions to improve on these problems.

[Isle of Stars.3049]

"Many players do not seem to understand which control points are"

"...many players do not seem to understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of their classes."

 

Are you sure you're not in Bronze? As a casual player, this is exactly what I am experiencing in my MMR right now.

 

[mortrialus.3062]

I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

 

Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

[Fontain.4129]

 

 

> @"Isle of Stars.3049" said:

> "Many players do not seem to understand which control points are"

> "...many players do not seem to understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of their classes."

>

> Are you sure you're not in Bronze? As a casual player, this is exactly what I am experiencing in my MMR right now.

>

 

I oscillate from G2-P1, depending on streaks, decay, profession, etc., and this has been typical for me, regardless of season (although I feel streaks to be more frenetic this one; that might be placebo from the feelings expressed above). I would hope that as you continue to climb, many of these behaviors would subside, but I've found they extend higher up than one might expect.

[Apolo.5942]

> @"Fontain.4129" said:

> Lastly, many players do not seem to understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of their classes.

 

Oh yes they do, that is exactly why they throw the game. I play warrior, i get in close have meager sustain and bellow average damage, those ARE the class "strengths". I am not going to play a point control game against 2 necros just to get my face repeatedly bashed in, i rather throw it as quickly as possible and move to the next match.

 

The problem is not that players do not understand their clases, the problem is that way too much of this game revolves around toxic mechanics.

 

Mesmer, Necro, Elemtalist builds that out damage and and sustain warriors, unclear and hard to predict casting animations, explosive combat based around bursts of invulnerability, the list goes on and on and on.

 

This game goes against most fantasy and rpg conventions, and has paid for it.

 

Fights in this game last what 10 to 15 seconds? may be 20? people in general do not care for that, this is not a battle arena like League of Legends.

 

There are mechanics that should not be in the game, Magic the Gathering phased out counterspells and land destruction, because the inherent toxicity of those strategies, Anet essentially doubles down on everything that makes players rage...

[Abazigal.3679]

This is well argumented. Actually, i had all of this sumed up one day in a single game :

- X player tells all other to go 2 close 3 far as an opener, that's what we're doing

- We cap close, we cap far, we're leading 80-15

- X player decides to go mid for no reason, dies there, calls others " noobs " and afks until the end of the game

 

I think too many players have no idea how to play on capture points generally, but the powercreep in builds doesn't help. I used to learn capping years ago in several games including GW1, where sometimes i had to play on capturing points with builds having 0 damage. That really makes you learn stuff because you're playing with high advantages but also high inconvenients, so you have to adapt. This was also the case on GW2 beginning because it was mostly bunkers with 0 damage against dps with 0 defense, so you had to know what you were doing and matchs could end on a 70-50, or even on a 500-30 only because dps team did 1 little mistake.

You do learn things when your playstyle has obvious counterplays, and that's where the problem is. PoF builds have very few counter players and you hardly can prevent some builds ( i.e holo or mirage) to roll a low experienced player.

 

Which leads to the Gold division we actually have with :

- inexperienced luckers in placement games

- veterans unlucky in placement games

- players that are good at fighting, but have no idea how to play on capture points

- players that are good at capping, but don't perform well on fight ( can be due to poor build )

[Stand The Wall.6987]

for me, I don't care for conquest at all. I don't play ranked for this reason; I don't want to bring my team down by playing something I don't enjoy. if there were two or three options to choose from, I would not mind playing conquest at all from time to time. same goes for meta builds. theyre fun to play a little, but I always find myself wanting something else. luckily anet has been pretty good recently about making more builds viable, but we are still a long ways from each spec being viable. when im playing unranked, there are times when I see a particular class and just plain don't wanna fight it lol. some builds are so tedious or annoying that it takes the fun out of the game. so that particular person can sit there alone on point all match for all I care. I play this game for good team fights and will continue to do so.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

 

This is the absolute best quote I have read on these forums in weeks.

 

 

[kin korn karn.9023]

> @"Apolo.5942" said:

> > @"Fontain.4129" said:

> > Lastly, many players do not seem to understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of their classes.

>

> Oh yes they do, that is exactly why they throw the game. I play warrior, i get in close have meager sustain and bellow average damage, those ARE the class "strengths". I am not going to play a point control game against 2 necros just to get my face repeatedly bashed in, i rather throw it as quickly as possible and move to the next match.

>

> The problem is not that players do not understand their clases, the problem is that way too much of this game revolves around toxic mechanics.

>

> Mesmer, Necro, Elemtalist builds that out damage and and sustain warriors, unclear and hard to predict casting animations, explosive combat based around bursts of invulnerability, the list goes on and on and on.

>

> This game goes against most fantasy and rpg conventions, and has paid for it.

>

> Fights in this game last what 10 to 15 seconds? may be 20? people in general do not care for that, this is not a battle arena like League of Legends.

>

> There are mechanics that should not be in the game, Magic the Gathering phased out counterspells and land destruction, because the inherent toxicity of those strategies, Anet essentially doubles down on everything that makes players rage...

If you are throwing games simply because the enemy team has two necros, you are part of the problem. You're struggling to last more than 10sec on warrior? I suggest you watch some streams for some ideas on how to play the class you've chosen.

[kin korn karn.9023]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

>

> Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

 

After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

[JayAction.9056]

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

> >

> > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

>

> After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

 

The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme.

 

Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

 

Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth.

[kin korn karn.9023]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

> > >

> > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

> >

> > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

>

> The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme.

>

> Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

>

> Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth.

 

I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

> > > >

> > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

> > >

> > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

> >

> > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme.

> >

> > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

> >

> > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth.

>

> I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches.

 

The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Abelisk.4527]

There are times where I get matched with high-rated players against high-rated players. These are very fun, intense matches.

 

Most of the time though, you have players doing placements with a severely unbalanced rating due to luck wins.

 

One point I disagree with you is your "block" suggestion. Blocking every high-rated player you know will, obviously, be incredibly unbalanced. Additionally it can lead to match manipulation by blocking good players and not doing so for bad ones. Queue times will also be significantly longer and of lower quality.

 

Perhaps the system could take into account how many reports were done by the team? So if all 4 members of your team reported an individual it would put the player on a timeout of, say, 20-30 minutes. MAYBE after a developer researches the reports as well.

 

I also strongly agree that pips should not be given to losing teams. It would encourage less losing attitude. ANet should also do more IP checks for alts that would willingly throw for no reason.

[kin korn karn.9023]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

> > > >

> > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

> > >

> > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme.

> > >

> > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

> > >

> > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth.

> >

> > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches.

>

> The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be.

[Ruufio.1496]

If they reverted the game to 2012 balance then it would be balanceable again.

[Isle of Stars.3049]

> @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> - players that are good at capping, but don't perform well on fight ( can be due to poor build )

 

This is basically where I am in this category. What I do best is decap and out-rotate fights. Can't pretty much hold on a node or stay in prolonged fights, because I play at 400 ping on a daily basis.

 

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> If they reverted the game to 2012 balance then it would be balanceable again.

 

You should take a trip back to 2012 on the GW2 forum archive.

[losingcontrol.1084]

Biggest problem is matchmaking and low population which result into toxicity.

 

I am gold3 plat1 and I keep going up and down and a I never reached plat2, so I am not that great player.

 

Yeaterday I queque and I got matched againat Boyce and Zan, over 1800 elo legendary rank, how is that balanced matchmaking?

 

Not to mention the game was a 50-500.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

> > > > >

> > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

> > > >

> > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme.

> > > >

> > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

> > > >

> > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth.

> > >

> > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches.

> >

> > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.

>

> It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be.

 

To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team.

[Nevermore.1895]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

 

Its NOTHING like WoW. Nor it is smoother, actually on the contrary.

what GW2 does better than WoW:

-action combat, the ability to outplay based on your mechanical skill and knowledge of other classes (ofc this is trumped by shittiest balance i've ever encountered in pvp game), subjectively game looks better atleast than current version of WoW.

 

and the things where it fails:

-garbage targeting (no sticky targeting you click on the ground and you lose your target), mesmers illusions add to the problem aswell, pet follow you even if you disengage by stealth, just too chaotic to know whats going on, abilites flat out not working sometimes (infiltrators arrow, shadowstep, sword 2) you waste initiative and you just dont move anywhere, terrible LoS system, no port spots (just adding to inconsistency), UI is terrible (buffs, debuffs everything is obscured), nameplates of players just randomly get dimmed out.

 

been playing the game for less than two months, ~plat 1 only thief so take this as subjective opinion by an inexperienced player.

 

 

[kin korn karn.9023]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

> > > > >

> > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme.

> > > > >

> > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

> > > > >

> > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches.

> > >

> > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.

> >

> > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be.

>

> To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team.

 

Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best.

[Isle of Stars.3049]

Am I the only one here who thinks that Revenge of the Capricorn is a trash map that everybody loves but doesn't know the importance of the bell?

[Manimarco Devil.1790]

I agree with most of what OP has said but disagree with the idea of holding nodes is paramount. The (hidden) complexity in GW2 is that there are times where fighting off node and winning that fight is more valuable then just trying to hold a node outnumbered. Once the fight is won and the enemy is on respawn or bleeding out, the numbers advantage can easily snowball the rest of the map. This is why stomping should almost never be done with the enemy is in remote spot or unlikely to be revived by an ally to begin with.

 

The problem is it is very hard to communicate succinctly in the middle of a game to allies if they should be helping in a fight or off capping a node or rotating. Everyone is left to try and figure out on their own if their decision was correct. The map only gives partial information and stealthed targets nor portals appear as icons on the map so the fastest way to tell someone something is to type it out but that proves too slow in a game mode where it takes seconds to cap/decap. It also doesn't help a lot of the playerbase takes directions/advice personally and are inclined to argue/ignore what was said. Even in high tier player streams, they speak misinformation about where players were on the map and what rotations were made because of the utter lack of communication and the associated tools to do so efficiently.

[Vrath.1754]

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches.

> > > >

> > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy.

> > >

> > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be.

> >

> > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team.

>

> Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best.

 

So your just of the opinion the players have no responsibility to take ownership of their toxic behavior? Just match making made me do it?