mortrialus.3062 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb. > > > > > > > > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches. > > > > > > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy. > > > > > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be. > > > > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team. > > Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best. The solution to match making is getting more people in to PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 just make rank means something platnium vs platnium and legendary gold vs gold silver vs silver bronze vs bronze all that pain comes from the skill difference how ppl are mixed together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teevell.1684 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said: >The problem is it is very hard to communicate succinctly in the middle of a game to allies if they should be helping in a fight or off capping a node or rotating. This game could really use a VGS system like Smite's. It was probably the best thing that game ever did. Type three buttons in a row and an in-game announcer says to your team "Defend middle node" or "I'll rotate far node". Short, easy, to the point and gives your team at least some information about what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontain.4129 Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said: > I agree with most of what OP has said but disagree with the idea of holding nodes is paramount. The (hidden) complexity in GW2 is that there are times where fighting off node and winning that fight is more valuable then just trying to hold a node outnumbered. Once the fight is won and the enemy is on respawn or bleeding out, the numbers advantage can easily snowball the rest of the map. This is why stomping should almost never be done with the enemy is in remote spot or unlikely to be revived by an ally to begin with. > > The problem is it is very hard to communicate succinctly in the middle of a game to allies if they should be helping in a fight or off capping a node or rotating. Everyone is left to try and figure out on their own if their decision was correct. The map only gives partial information and stealthed targets nor portals appear as icons on the map so the fastest way to tell someone something is to type it out but that proves too slow in a game mode where it takes seconds to cap/decap. It also doesn't help a lot of the playerbase takes directions/advice personally and are inclined to argue/ignore what was said. Even in high tier player streams, they speak misinformation about where players were on the map and what rotations were made because of the utter lack of communication and the associated tools to do so efficiently. I agree (hence the "I am well aware that situation can dictate strategy and there are times where the assumptions outlined below might not apply. I'm attempting to adress common... situations below, not uncommon ones"). I think we're on the same page here. My point was more that players seem to significantly undervalue control points, disregarding how relatively easy they are to decap compared to cap (by time req. on point alone), and that this leads to poor risk / reward analysis. While keeping the enemy off point (preoccupied, stuck in a down state, etc.) can be advantageous in the right scenario, players often leave hard-fought-for points completely unguarded, leading to easy decaps for the enemy, or will pursue enemy players (often in groups) at times where the opponent holds more points or during teamfights (leading to outnumbered situations). As you've theorized, this is likely made worse by poor tools for effective communication. While I don't think it would solve the problem entirely, the following would almost undeniably help, and it would raise the ceiling for potential plays: > @"Teevell.1684" said: > > @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said: > >The problem is it is very hard to communicate succinctly in the middle of a game to allies if they should be helping in a fight or off capping a node or rotating. > > This game could really use a VGS system like Smite's. It was probably the best thing that game ever did. Type three buttons in a row and an in-game announcer says to your team "Defend middle node" or "I'll rotate far node". Short, easy, to the point and gives your team at least some information about what you're doing. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Nevermore.1895" said: > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > Its NOTHING like WoW. Nor it is smoother, actually on the contrary. > what GW2 does better than WoW: > -action combat, the ability to outplay based on your mechanical skill and knowledge of other classes (ofc this is trumped by kitten balance i've ever encountered in pvp game), subjectively game looks better atleast than current version of WoW. > > and the things where it fails: > -garbage targeting (no sticky targeting you click on the ground and you lose your target), mesmers illusions add to the problem aswell, pet follow you even if you disengage by stealth, just too chaotic to know whats going on, abilites flat out not working sometimes (infiltrators arrow, shadowstep, sword 2) you waste initiative and you just dont move anywhere, terrible LoS system, no port spots (just adding to inconsistency), UI is terrible (buffs, debuffs everything is obscured), nameplates of players just randomly get dimmed out. > > been playing the game for less than two months, ~plat 1 only thief so take this as subjective opinion by an inexperienced player. > > Last I checked in WoW 3v3's were a question of what is the third class you'll run along side two Demon Hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverze.7180 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Since start season im at 50-60% winrate but since saterday i keep losing can't win aneymore with pretty much one sided matches . Wat happend suddently? I always play on prime time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches. > > > > > > > > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy. > > > > > > > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be. > > > > > > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team. > > > > Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best. > > The solution to match making is getting more people in to PvP. Would be nice, but I won't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said: > Am I the only one here who thinks that Revenge of the Capricorn is a trash map that everybody loves but doesn't know the importance of the bell? In terms of match quality, I think this is the ultimate "make an unbalanced match even worse" map. It punishes the underdogs severely. Perhaps it's popular because balanced matches will be competitive, but unbalanced ones will be particularly swift (a built-in reroll as it were). > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches. > > > > > > > > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy. > > > > > > > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be. > > > > > > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team. > > > > Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best. > > The solution to match making is getting more people in to PvP. Yet poor matchmaking can be a big turn off to newcomers especially. Vicious cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said: > > Am I the only one here who thinks that Revenge of the Capricorn is a trash map that everybody loves but doesn't know the importance of the bell? > > In terms of match quality, I think this is the ultimate "make an unbalanced match even worse" map. It punishes the underdogs severely. Perhaps it's popular because balanced matches will be competitive, but unbalanced ones will be particularly swift (a built-in reroll as it were). > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches. > > > > > > > > > > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy. > > > > > > > > > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be. > > > > > > > > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team. > > > > > > Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best. > > > > The solution to match making is getting more people in to PvP. > > Yet poor matchmaking can be a big turn off to newcomers especially. Vicious cycle. If you dumped 10,000 new players into PvP all at once those 10,000 players will have a better time because they're going to be mostly matched against other new people and with the right online resources teaching them PvP, enough of those new players will become good players in a decent amount of time and improve matchmaking at the high end, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said: > > > Am I the only one here who thinks that Revenge of the Capricorn is a trash map that everybody loves but doesn't know the importance of the bell? > > > > In terms of match quality, I think this is the ultimate "make an unbalanced match even worse" map. It punishes the underdogs severely. Perhaps it's popular because balanced matches will be competitive, but unbalanced ones will be particularly swift (a built-in reroll as it were). > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be. > > > > > > > > > > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team. > > > > > > > > Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best. > > > > > > The solution to match making is getting more people in to PvP. > > > > Yet poor matchmaking can be a big turn off to newcomers especially. Vicious cycle. > > If you dumped 10,000 new players into PvP all at once those 10,000 players will have a better time because they're going to be mostly matched against other new people and with the right online resources teaching them PvP, enough of those new players will become good players in a decent amount of time and improve matchmaking at the high end, too. Yes, but where you gonna get those 10k new players? Never gonna happen. IMO the pvp system in general is quite good (matchmaking notwithstanding), balance is all right, decent enough rewards... but it's all too little too late, as most relevant pvp bros quit playing years ago and most of the pvp population with them. At this point, without some miraculously massive sudden influx of new pvpers, this gamemode cannot be sincerely recommended to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said: > > > > Am I the only one here who thinks that Revenge of the Capricorn is a trash map that everybody loves but doesn't know the importance of the bell? > > > > > > In terms of match quality, I think this is the ultimate "make an unbalanced match even worse" map. It punishes the underdogs severely. Perhaps it's popular because balanced matches will be competitive, but unbalanced ones will be particularly swift (a built-in reroll as it were). > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team. > > > > > > > > > > Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best. > > > > > > > > The solution to match making is getting more people in to PvP. > > > > > > Yet poor matchmaking can be a big turn off to newcomers especially. Vicious cycle. > > > > If you dumped 10,000 new players into PvP all at once those 10,000 players will have a better time because they're going to be mostly matched against other new people and with the right online resources teaching them PvP, enough of those new players will become good players in a decent amount of time and improve matchmaking at the high end, too. > Yes, but where you gonna get those 10k new players? Never gonna happen. IMO the pvp system in general is quite good (matchmaking notwithstanding), balance is all right, decent enough rewards... but it's all too little too late, as most relevant pvp bros quit playing years ago and most of the pvp population with them. At this point, without some miraculously massive sudden influx of new pvpers, this gamemode cannot be sincerely recommended to anyone. Every time curious potential players poke their head into the game, ask popular players if it's worth picking up, and they tell them it's not and to not even try that chips away at all those potential new players. When Jebro is telling WoodenPotatoes there's no point in making a new Intro to PvP series to try and get more people into the game, it chips away at potential players. Shit adds up over time. I mean fuck, if Runescape can have one of the biggest resurgences in the past few years SPvP can especially now the actual in game systems aren't a glorified beta demo like when GW2 originally released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Just played two unranked matches for dailies that I think are illustrative of some of the broader subjects discussed here. Both were on the new Djinn's Dominion map. First game was a 86-502 stomp with a condi mirage and soulbeast on the other team. I "fought" each of them with my condi mirage and the outcome was as expected for someone of my modest skill and experience. Although they were hardly fair duels. After decapping mid and seeing the entire opposing team rushing me, I ran to recap home, using every evade, stealth, and mobility I could to get away. The Soulbeast pursued me and forced a duel while i was on C/Ds. Needless to say I couldn't put a dent in that sustain. At some point someone on our team either gave up and quit or D/C'd making an already unbalanced match a 4 v 5. But we kept at it like the good sports we were. In the final moments of the match, while I was running to recap home (again), the enemy condi mirage bursted me from stealth and downed me in like 8 seconds. I haven't tried to learn such bursts in part because I think it's what gives us condi mirages a bad name. Imagine a new player experiencing a match like that one. The second match was almost a mirror opposite 501-84 stomp with the mirage from the previous match still on the other team, but the soulbeast now on mine. It was quickly clear the balancing tables had turned. Their team kept fighting off point, and the other mirage was constantly locked in outnumbered fights. However, at the start of the match, I wrote a friendly message to them and we continued whispering through the match about how the balance had turned. Matchmaking clearly has room for improvement in terms of reducing grossly one-sided matches (although maybe this is the nature of unranked?) . Yet that second match also marked my 400th unranked match, with 202 wins, a near 50/50 win/loss ratio, which is what would be expected of good matchmaking. But although the overall record may indicate decent balance, it's the uneven experience along the way, with extreme matches like the two I just played, that can be both discouraging for newcomers and unsatisfying for veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said: > > > > Am I the only one here who thinks that Revenge of the Capricorn is a trash map that everybody loves but doesn't know the importance of the bell? > > > > > > In terms of match quality, I think this is the ultimate "make an unbalanced match even worse" map. It punishes the underdogs severely. Perhaps it's popular because balanced matches will be competitive, but unbalanced ones will be particularly swift (a built-in reroll as it were). > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot of this is on point. I see a lot of nonsense in my games . Like plat 2 games where I'll go home because I'm a Mirage main and it's a very sound play, but a reaper or scourge will follow me all the way home and try to cap home with me. Tons of players just don't understand their own role in the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since Path of Fire I've felt that conquest's biggest weakness isn't the mechanics or balance or game mode. Those are all great (Yes even balance despite the community's whining is actually pretty good all things relative). It's always been the community holding it back. The game poorly educating players on what to do in the game mode, **top tier players (Who religiously play this game, I might add) telling curious potential buyers the game isn't worth playing** on their streams several times a day. It's not the balance. It's not the game mode. It's not the systems in place for how to play PvP like Ranked and Automated Tournaments. It's us. It's always been us. We're the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After years, I still enjoy gw2, but I could not honestly recommend that anyone buy it for pvp in 2018. Not a complaint, just reality. The learning curve is incredibly high and pvp is essentially dead. If you encourage anyone to buy under current circumstances, you're either a liar or a pleb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The learning curve is steep at the top. Like obtaining a pvp title top. Otherwise it’s nothing too extreme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise it plays like WoW and many other games, but much smoother. GW2 is the Porsche of MMO PvP and everything else is a Ford Fiesta (including WoW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody loves this game until they start losing. Then they want to bad mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not badmouthing, it's just the reality. If players were matched with/against players with similar skill, gw2 pvp would be great. But I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone buy a game that puts plats and silvers in the same matches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The community being so self defeating makes this a self fulfilling prophecy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not the community's fault that gw2 pvp isn't welcoming to new players, nor is it our responsibility to make it appear to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest, I've seen nicer PvP players in a Korean p2w game not long ago despite being a dead weight (extremely underleveled) for my team. > > > > > > > > > > Haha I wouldn't doubt it. I know players can be pretty harsh, but that's a symptom of the atrocious matchmaking. Blaming the community for being bitter about poor match quality is myopic at best. > > > > > > > > The solution to match making is getting more people in to PvP. > > > > > > Yet poor matchmaking can be a big turn off to newcomers especially. Vicious cycle. > > > > If you dumped 10,000 new players into PvP all at once those 10,000 players will have a better time because they're going to be mostly matched against other new people and with the right online resources teaching them PvP, enough of those new players will become good players in a decent amount of time and improve matchmaking at the high end, too. > Yes, but where you gonna get those 10k new players? Never gonna happen. IMO the pvp system in general is quite good (matchmaking notwithstanding), balance is all right, decent enough rewards... but it's all too little too late, as most relevant pvp bros quit playing years ago and most of the pvp population with them. At this point, without some miraculously massive sudden influx of new pvpers, this gamemode cannot be sincerely recommended to anyone. New pvpers start their quest in the 1200 range instead than 0 like logic would dictate, this will inevitably lead to lopsided matches where newbs end up joining vet team made of players who started pvp in GW2 during launch, those same vets become frustrated and quit the game as a result but anet won't change anything , they stated that starting from the bottom would be too "detrimental" for new players. That's the main reason vets leave the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 The sooner people learn what toxic behavior is and eliminate it from their being, the better we all will be. Mid-match comments to a teammate like "that was the least damage I've ever seen a [profession] do tbh" serve absolutely no constructive purpose. They result in only one thing: putting someone down. Unless they're zen enough to shrug it off, that person then either takes it to heart and is even less effective the rest of the match, or gets upset and fires back. Either way they're distracted and worse off for it. "I know this is unranked but I've been 1 v 3 at far and you couldn't even hold home and mid." In a match where the other team were obvious acquaintances and one or two were doing nothing but rotating decaps. Unfortunate enough to be teamed with the same person in the next match who targeted an opponent in a team fight: "took you long enough" after target was defeated. There is no justification for such toxicity. People can have off days, off matches, poor connections, or a thousand other things. Or maybe they're just new, inexperienced, experimenting, or learning. How do we expect new players to get into PvP when faced with such toxicity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > "I know this is unranked but I've been 1 v 3 at far and you couldn't even hold home and mid." In a match where the other team were obvious acquaintances and one or two were doing nothing but rotating decaps. Without letting people know what they're doing wrong, they will never improve. There are obviously better and worse ways of telling people this, but somewhere people will have to grow a thicker skin. It's a game and nothing is personal, it's all heat of the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Of the three quotes I included, that one was the least toxic, I agree. But it was still more blaming than helpful, and in general that person clearly thought they were the kitten without recognizing it was mostly bad matchmaking. Everyone was trying, but the other team was just better. Zero point trying to place blame or telling people they suck in so many words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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