Do revenants not have enough condi clears for WvW Solo Roaming?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

As a condi necro, I've always felt a little sorry for Revenants as their meta Herald roaming build (Glint + Shiro) seemed to have little condi clears and they tend to struggle against condi opponents. But I had some doubts as I had met two Revenant solo roamers in the past that gave me a much tougher fight with a non meta build.

 

My question is, do you guys really not have enough condi management tools or do you guys sacrifice it in return for a stronger power build?

If you guys have enough condi management tools in other legends, why not use it for a more balanced build?

 

Reason I'm asking is because I happened to fight one of the Revenant roamer again and as the last time we met, he pushed me hard right to the wire.

I remember him because he is one of only two Revenants who managed to push my condi necro to the brink of death.

The one who lost could easily have been me if I wasn't carried by my build.

 

I'm not very well-versed in Revenant but the little I could tell was that the Revenant was using the below build:

 

**GLINT + JALIS**

 

* Weapon combo is Staff + Sword/?

* Legends is **Glint** + **Jalis**

* Power based build

 

He shrugged off my condis quite easily when I managed to land them, I assume also that he was running Cleansing Sigils, and pushed me all the way.

Is there a downside to this Glint + Jalis build? Why not use it? It seems so much more balanced to me than Glint + Shiro which has limited condi clear and depends on preventing the application mainly.

 

There was also another build that I've seen pre-POF:

 

**GLINT + MALLYX**

 

* Weapon can't remember but I think was ?/Axe + ?

* Legends is **Glint** + **Mallyx**

* Condi/Hybrid based build

 

This was a boon spamming, torment stacking build that overpowered most of the power/condi foes he dueled with due to the boon spamming, similar to the current boon beast builds on soul beast. He only lost when he fought my corrupt condi necro due to, corrupt and transfer.

I'm not sure if this build is currently viable since I've not fought one solo since pre-POF (though I've seen a rise in condi/hybrid herald roamers recently).

 

That said, the Glint + Jalis build I just fought definitely seemed capable of handling condi foes, possibly with cleansing sigils and runes unsure.

[Arkantos.7460]

Rune of Resistence= 8 sec condi immunity every 20 sec

[steki.1478]

Cleansing sigil is pretty strong now.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> Rune of Resistence= 8 sec condi immunity every 20 sec

 

THAT NAME...

Was the Glint + Jalis revenant I fought earlier you??

I think it was a BG server or CD/Mag/DR server revenant...

[Shroud.2307]

Revenant is a bit like Thief in the sense that it's defenses are based on damage avoidance rather than tanking, healing or blocking like other professions. Although it has low condition cleanse with the meta build, it can do just fine with proper evasion, kiting and use of Infuse Light + staff cleanse.

 

I picked up Rev nearly 2 months ago now and have been playing it non-stop. It was a rough start because I'm a slow learner, but I feel I've made leaps and bounds of improvement. I have _no_ issues with condition builds with the exception of a well played condition Mirage. And even those I can kill if I play my cards right.

That said, there have been a few particular condi Mesmers that have played very smart and have worn me down rather trying to burst me. They would constantly drop a couple conditions, stealth out and kite away until I eventually died. Neither of the ones that did this were exceptionally good, but they were smart. You can do the same with Necro if you don't commit to bursting them. Just wear them down by dropping a few condi's here and there and kiting around terrain. Make them chase you and eventually they'll die or run.

 

But anyway, it _would_ be nice to have a little more cleanse for sure, but I think it's manageable as it is. I'd maybe change Cleansing Channel to remove 2 conditions instead of 1 and maybe allow Surge Of The Mists to remove debilitating conditions as well. Although, that would also make staff a more mandatory pick and would make that skill pretty overloaded.

[Justine.6351]

Traditionally Power Herald has been countered by straight-up condi builds and it has just been accepted as our counter. For other moderate condition builds the solution has been,

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Cleansing (+1)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Channel

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewing_Wave

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposting_Shadows

 

Now a days sigil of cleansing (+3) can even help counter the more hardcore condition builds.

 

I don't really agree with how they have handled nerfing conditions in WvW but I'm not going to complain about it.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I run WvW a bit weird on my Revenant. My build is mostly my PVE build forcibly shoved into a WvW setup, so basically it is a Berserker/Marauder set built around Invocation/Retribution/Herald. Since all my runes and sigils are offenses, I put my defenses in my traits. The build is high damage, high aggression, but occasionally short lived. I play it like I have ADHD, so sometimes I'm in a group, but I'll just run off solo whenever I see something shiny.

 

When solo roaming, I don't really have a problem with condi builds. Mostly because the fight doesn't last that long. If I can get the jump on my enemy, or at the very least meet their gaze, their response is usually panicked dodging and spamming as I chase them down with Death Strike, Unrelenting Assault, Phase Reversal, and Impossible Odds. Berserker/Marauder Herald has a surprising amount of bulk for all the damage it does, more so than other classes. Glint keeps me buffed to the nines, gives me protection when needed, and the Retribution line gives me stability and retaliation intermittently. Because the Herald usually wins the auto attack war, the strategy of "stick close with maximum aggression" usually works.

 

My weaknesses are usually this:

 

1: Mirages. Best dueling class beats me in duels. Go figure.

2: Being outnumbered. Power Herald's skills don't scale well with larger numbers, so winning anything worse than a 1v2 is right out.

3: Being ambushed by another glass cannon build. Though you can kill any other glass build in 2 attacks, they can down you in 3 or 4, so if you get jumped you can die.

4: Roaming Warriors. Strangely. If built right, they can be even bulkier and harder hitting, so I have to get creative to beat a power Spellbreaker.

 

[idolin.2831]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> 4: Roaming Warriors. Strangely. If built right, they can be even bulkier and harder hitting, so I have to get creative to beat a power Spellbreaker.

>

 

I'm curious as to what builds you're referring too. I only know of 2 popular builds - Daggerbreaker and Tetherbreaker, but I don't normally lose to Spellbreakers because their attacks are quite telegraphed and they're melee oriented, and as long as you have a stun break available and/or are able to get out of melee range after sword 3 or sword 5, you can deal damage quite safely. That might no longer apply with the new sword 4, but still even using axe OH spellbreaker isn't too much of a problem.

 

In general I find rev to be pretty good against power builds, if played right of course.

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"idolin.2831" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > 4: Roaming Warriors. Strangely. If built right, they can be even bulkier and harder hitting, so I have to get creative to beat a power Spellbreaker.

> >

>

> I'm curious as to what builds you're referring too. I only know of 2 popular builds - Daggerbreaker and Tetherbreaker, but I don't normally lose to Spellbreakers because their attacks are quite telegraphed and they're melee oriented, and as long as you have a stun break available and/or are able to get out of melee range after sword 3 or sword 5, you can deal damage quite safely. That might no longer apply with the new sword 4, but still even using axe OH spellbreaker isn't too much of a problem.

>

> In general I find rev to be pretty good against power builds, if played right of course.

>

 

I have no clue what the build is. I don't own a warrior or visit the warrior forums, so most of their operations are a mystery to me. I have, indeed, encountered spellbreakers that I can defeat just by running around in circles and spamming sword 2. However, I will also encounter that rare solo/small group warrior who will just wreck me. It's a similar glass cannon build (or at least it looks that way from all the damage they do). What they do is chain invulnerability skills together while waiting for me to run out of energy. With the right weapons, a warrior has more mobility, offense, and invulnerability skills than the Rev, and if I encounter one of these warriors they just chase me down and pound me.

 

The strongest one I encountered was a solo warrior who was camping a BL entrance. It was just me vs. him, and he took me down. Over and over again. I think I engaged this guy maybe 10 times straight, once with a teammate, and I died all 10 times. Not only did I not win, I stood no chance. That was many months ago, so I don't know if buffs/nerfs have changed this.

[narcx.3570]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> **GLINT + JALIS**

>

> * Weapon combo is Staff + Sword/?

> * Legends is **Glint** + **Jalis**

> * Power based build

>

> He shrugged off my condis quite easily when I managed to land them, I assume also that he was running Cleansing Sigils, and pushed me all the way.

> Is there a downside to this Glint + Jalis build? Why not use it? It seems so much more balanced to me than Glint + Shiro which has limited condi clear and depends on preventing the application mainly.

>

> There was also another build that I've seen pre-POF:

>

> **GLINT + MALLYX**

>

> * Weapon can't remember but I think was ?/Axe + ?

> * Legends is **Glint** + **Mallyx**

> * Condi/Hybrid based build

>

> This was a boon spamming, torment stacking build that overpowered most of the power/condi foes he dueled with due to the boon spamming, similar to the current boon beast builds on soul beast. He only lost when he fought my corrupt condi necro due to, corrupt and transfer.

> I'm not sure if this build is currently viable since I've not fought one solo since pre-POF (though I've seen a rise in condi/hybrid herald roamers recently).

>

 

I don't want to sound like mean or whatever, but if that guy was playing Jalis, he shouldn't have even been able to touch you... A Herald w/o Shiro is even less mobile than a necro (I know it sounds crazy that somebody could be even less mobile than you, but they are), and you should have just been able to kite him around all day with your scepter or staff.

 

Nobody's playing Shiro for the "stronger power build" aspects... It's 100% about the mobility of Riposte and PT. Without Riposte, any Rev would just instantly die to the many immob-spam builds out there, and without PT, you would literally not be able to kill a single one of the popular roaming classes, who could just keep running away to reset the fight until you're out of cool downs and dead.

 

As for a Mallyx/condi build, it also suffers from a lack of mobility, but also, condi rev's strength lies in AoE condi applications... It's very similar to scourge in this aspect where it's at its best when people are forced to stay in a certain area. Which is why it used to be somewhat decent in sPvP, because you could put out a lot of pressure on capture points. As a scourge player, you'll know how useless this is in the vast openness of WvW roaming tho, since people have nothing to lose by just avoiding your shades and just nuking you from afar. Also, Resistance is a boon, and well, boons are just too much of an unreliable option in scope of PoF, where everyone has loads of boon removal/corruption.

 

Ultimately in the end, even if these builds were great and worked against a Condi Necro, it wouldn't be worth running them... It's not like condi necro is even a common roaming class, most of them you come across just flat out run away from you because they are trying to get back to their zerg, and the rare condi necro that wants to fight you maybe constitutes 1-2% of your total roaming encounters. It's better to roll with a build that does well against Thiefs/Soulbeasts/Breakers/Holos/(uhg Mirages)/and even Reapers than something to counter the odd, rare condi-roaming build.