TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > > > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > > > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > > > > > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > > > > > > System? This is an idea for an event like no downed state or bloodlust. I'm only trying to see if there's any interest in this idea so I'm not going to get into all the balance details. Every other event just lands without regard for balance so why should this have to take into account balance? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except no downed state helps balance skill vs numbers and should be the way the game mode was from the start. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But did the no downed state event get used to balance the mode or to create an interesting change? Think about it, it made it more balanced but it's not permanent and we don't know if it ever will so what did it ultimately do in the end? > > > > > > > > > > > > What did it do? It proved once and for all what those of us who have asked for no DS from the start, but were always called "crazy", because they claimed it really wouldn't help out numbered skilled players, and would hurt them and make blobs even stronger....That excuse can't be used anymore as we have first hand experience now. It also didn't change stats, ruin/sigil effects, food or other effects etc etc, this however would. The only thing no DS did was make a few res traits not useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > This however would be a bad idea across the board, it would break everything. You have builds as it is now that are boon crazy with protection and regen, they are almost unkillable now with 20k+ HP, now you want to give them 200,000HP? This would allow them to spec even less into vitality etc for even more boon uptime or dmg. I honestly can't believe I am even having to explain this or how broken it would make everything. > > > > > > > > > > And for all the proof it provided, it's still not made permanent. > > > > > > > > > > By the way, did you consider the attrition portion at all? The part where that 200k max HP will eventually dwindle to 1 max HP in prolonged combat? That HP does not automatically regenerate when out of combat? > > > > > > > > > > And you can stop arguing with me at any time. I just wanted to see if it interests anyone. You seem interested enough to argue about it. > > > > > > > > Lots of things that need to be done or added, has not been by anet. They are wildly disconnected from WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > All fights are attrition, so I have no idea what you are trying to say, you might want to explain in detail if there are other aspects to it. How are you insuring that HP will dwindle in combat? The boon builds will maintain that 200k HP, as you stated healing skills etc will remain. Out of combat regen doesn't make any sense to remove, it doesn't help the combat, and just makes people WP back to one of those "healing NPC" you talked about, it would also make those who just got out of a fight at a bigger disadvantage, as anyone who WPs back will be full, but the other person will be trying to heal back to 200k+, assuming they are not one of the unkillable builds. > > > > > > > > Not interested at all, only amazed you can't see a single problem that would come from this. > > > > > > With attrition, I mean that maximum HP will simply go down while in combat, even if the invulnerable boon build as you call it keeps topping off their health with heals. It might even just be a constant loss mechanism where it drains regardless of performance in battle. A completely invulnerable player will still lose health in that manner. The medic could help recover HP and maximum HP, but that will not be instant, think of something like 5 minutes out of action to fully recover (maybe less, whatever time people would feel more appropriate). The only instant recovery of all HP is to die to an enemy and then WP to spawn. > > > > Oh, I see, so it's even worse than I thought. As you are adding a static health drain in combat, where those bunker builds will be out healing the ticks, if you make the ticks strong enough the people NOT running this bunker builds would always die to a bunker, as all the bunker has to do is keep the other player in combat and wait for it to tick to zero. The bunker builds would not even bother with dmg, go full on bunker and kiting ability and wait it out. > > There's no out healing going on here, the maximum HP is falling, you can't heal maximum HP while in combat. And why should someone that can not hurt a bunker be able to kill a bunker? You said in the OP, that healing skills and the like will still work, which one is it? Will they work or not? Either way, still doesn't change the fact that keeping someone in combat will kill them. All you have to do to win is have the higher HP pool and evade dmg/stealth. With health pools like this, it sounds like you want a full on carry mode for WvW, as your main reason for this is "melting outside of a zerg", meaning you are not willing to learn combat other than pressing 1111111111. And you want the ability that if you get jumped, you have a HUGE HP pool to run back to the zerg or get inside of a structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFishBob.6518 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"borgs.6103" said: > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > I'm aware the _recover Max HP quicker_ proposal is incomplete, that's because I want to see if there's any interest in this idea instead of coming up with a number that will be rejected no matter what simply because there's no interest in trying this. I will say this about that proposal, I envisioned it to be a slow recovery, just a patch up job as a group travels through the map, maybe even make the max HP recovery only work out of combat. > > > > People in combat and at a disadvantage die, that's not acceptable? Is siege humping a big deal if TTK goes up and a well managed zerg simply outlasts the structure they're attacking? And sending small groups to burst damage people in a zerg, leaving them severely injured and needing to use healing skills won't eventually bust up the zerg? > > If you've played WvW long enough, you'll know the majority thinks breaching defended keeps is the most unfun thing in the game. It will take huge amounts of time, and the rewards are not worth the time invested. The only _fun and rewarding_ thing, in this supposed massively-realm-versus-realm mode, in taking keeps is when the defenders stay and fight after you've breached the Lord's room. If not, then congrats, you've spent long amounts of time fighting doors/walls and NPCs for 2 blues and a green. If you're playing right now, you'll see T3 keeps won't get re-captured unless otherwise it's undefended. Defending vs. attacking is so biased against attacking and you're asking if siege humping is a big deal? > > Your idea of sending small groups to burst damage people in a zerg is moot because there won't be a zerg to burst damage since nobody would bother taking keeps unless it's undefended in your _interesting event_. > > Fair point. I'm not going to go to the OP and edit it since this poll I've set up has been on going with whatever was in the OP. Down here just for the sake of discussion, what if there were no defensive siege during the event? As in the event prevents the creation of defensive siege weapons. > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > > > > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > > > > > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"DaFishBob.6518" said: > > > > > > > > > > System? This is an idea for an event like no downed state or bloodlust. I'm only trying to see if there's any interest in this idea so I'm not going to get into all the balance details. Every other event just lands without regard for balance so why should this have to take into account balance? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except no downed state helps balance skill vs numbers and should be the way the game mode was from the start. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But did the no downed state event get used to balance the mode or to create an interesting change? Think about it, it made it more balanced but it's not permanent and we don't know if it ever will so what did it ultimately do in the end? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What did it do? It proved once and for all what those of us who have asked for no DS from the start, but were always called "crazy", because they claimed it really wouldn't help out numbered skilled players, and would hurt them and make blobs even stronger....That excuse can't be used anymore as we have first hand experience now. It also didn't change stats, ruin/sigil effects, food or other effects etc etc, this however would. The only thing no DS did was make a few res traits not useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This however would be a bad idea across the board, it would break everything. You have builds as it is now that are boon crazy with protection and regen, they are almost unkillable now with 20k+ HP, now you want to give them 200,000HP? This would allow them to spec even less into vitality etc for even more boon uptime or dmg. I honestly can't believe I am even having to explain this or how broken it would make everything. > > > > > > > > > > > > And for all the proof it provided, it's still not made permanent. > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, did you consider the attrition portion at all? The part where that 200k max HP will eventually dwindle to 1 max HP in prolonged combat? That HP does not automatically regenerate when out of combat? > > > > > > > > > > > > And you can stop arguing with me at any time. I just wanted to see if it interests anyone. You seem interested enough to argue about it. > > > > > > > > > > Lots of things that need to be done or added, has not been by anet. They are wildly disconnected from WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All fights are attrition, so I have no idea what you are trying to say, you might want to explain in detail if there are other aspects to it. How are you insuring that HP will dwindle in combat? The boon builds will maintain that 200k HP, as you stated healing skills etc will remain. Out of combat regen doesn't make any sense to remove, it doesn't help the combat, and just makes people WP back to one of those "healing NPC" you talked about, it would also make those who just got out of a fight at a bigger disadvantage, as anyone who WPs back will be full, but the other person will be trying to heal back to 200k+, assuming they are not one of the unkillable builds. > > > > > > > > > > Not interested at all, only amazed you can't see a single problem that would come from this. > > > > > > > > With attrition, I mean that maximum HP will simply go down while in combat, even if the invulnerable boon build as you call it keeps topping off their health with heals. It might even just be a constant loss mechanism where it drains regardless of performance in battle. A completely invulnerable player will still lose health in that manner. The medic could help recover HP and maximum HP, but that will not be instant, think of something like 5 minutes out of action to fully recover (maybe less, whatever time people would feel more appropriate). The only instant recovery of all HP is to die to an enemy and then WP to spawn. > > > > > > Oh, I see, so it's even worse than I thought. As you are adding a static health drain in combat, where those bunker builds will be out healing the ticks, if you make the ticks strong enough the people NOT running this bunker builds would always die to a bunker, as all the bunker has to do is keep the other player in combat and wait for it to tick to zero. The bunker builds would not even bother with dmg, go full on bunker and kiting ability and wait it out. > > > > There's no out healing going on here, the maximum HP is falling, you can't heal maximum HP while in combat. And why should someone that can not hurt a bunker be able to kill a bunker? > > You said in the OP, that healing skills and the like will still work, which one is it? Will they work or not? > > Either way, still doesn't change the fact that keeping someone in combat will kill them. All you have to do to win is have the higher HP pool and evade dmg/stealth. With health pools like this, it sounds like you want a full on carry mode for WvW, as your main reason for this is "melting outside of a zerg", meaning you are not willing to learn combat other than pressing 1111111111. And you want the ability that if you get jumped, you have a HUGE HP pool to run back to the zerg or get inside of a structure. > > There's no confusion with what I said in the OP and what I've replied with later. You can heal back HP lost in a fight with healing skills, but not above the maximum HP that is going down as the fight progresses. I will note that you don't like this kind of dynamic, as do most people I'm sure based on the poll so far (2 yes/ 27 no). All I'm trying to do, by replying, is clarify what I meant with my OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I would like to see mistlock instabilities weekend : D. Flux bomb in zerg fights or social awarness xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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