apharma.3741 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I don't really like this mantra. It doesn't feel good to use essentially mashing a single button every second to do damage and it's not damage you can ignore as another class either at 1.33 damage mod on power spike. Remember ANet is looking to reduce or tone down instant damage. That it gives 12 stacks of might means you can effectively ranged kite forever using this skill to get 12-24 might constantly with a 50% might duration rune. It adds yet more instant spike damage to mesmer when burst is not something mesmer really needs. Any thoughts on what it could be changed to? I was thinking AoE 2 boon removal might be nice on a 4s cool down with the charge bonus to steal the boons for yourself and a 15s recharge on the mantra. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Spike Edit: For reference Mind Stab on greatsword is a 1.0 coefficient so the mantra does about 30% more damage, is instantly applied and can be used back to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I have mixed feelings about this, because Mantra of Pain is the basis of a healing build using Restorative Mantras. With it having only 1s cd, it means you can procc the trait every ~5s, which a very good source of healing. In comparison, mesmer's other group healing is tied to either wells or illusions, both of those having problems, requiring allies to stand still or an enemy target to summon illusions on. So, if the effect would be changed, I would prefer something appropriate so that the cooldown could stay the same. Otherwise, if the issue is about competitive modes, wouldn't it be effective to just increase the internal cooldown in those modes? Split the skill, and make it 4s like Power Lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 It doesn’t need to be changed at all. At this point you’re looking for changes just for the sake of making changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartpains.7312 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Hmmm, while I do agree with you. The game have many issues and removing boons would probably lead to more damage in most cases due to protection boon flying around these days. If we are looking to change it into something that is not damage it could be a bit hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Heartpains.7312" said: > Hmmm, while I do agree with you. The game have many issues and removing boons would probably lead to more damage in most cases due to protection boon flying around these days. > > If we are looking to change it into something that is not damage it could be a bit hard to do. Yep that's why I'm looking for ideas with the thread. I thought boon removal as a way to stay in theme with the pain and it's a very mesmer thing to do, it's painful losing boons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFoooster.8192 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 just buff shattered concentration remove 2 boons per shatter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Heartpains.7312" said: > > Hmmm, while I do agree with you. The game have many issues and removing boons would probably lead to more damage in most cases due to protection boon flying around these days. > > > > If we are looking to change it into something that is not damage it could be a bit hard to do. > > Yep that's why I'm looking for ideas with the thread. I thought boon removal as a way to stay in theme with the pain and it's a very mesmer thing to do, it's painful losing boons. Easiest solution is to change it into a condi skill. It ready applies vulnerability, just add some bleeding, maybe some cripple. Power already has phantasms, but condi builds don't have much for core utilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartpains.7312 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"MrFoooster.8192" said: > just buff shattered concentration remove 2 boons per shatter ? Not good idea, it would be too Op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFoooster.8192 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Heartpains.7312" said: > > @"MrFoooster.8192" said: > > just buff shattered concentration remove 2 boons per shatter ? > > Not good idea, it would be too Op isnt that the case ? ranged aoe instant boon rip wont be different than 2 boon rip on shatter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Heartpains.7312" said: > > > Hmmm, while I do agree with you. The game have many issues and removing boons would probably lead to more damage in most cases due to protection boon flying around these days. > > > > > > If we are looking to change it into something that is not damage it could be a bit hard to do. > > > > Yep that's why I'm looking for ideas with the thread. I thought boon removal as a way to stay in theme with the pain and it's a very mesmer thing to do, it's painful losing boons. > > Easiest solution is to change it into a condi skill. It ready applies vulnerability, just add some bleeding, maybe some cripple. Power already has phantasms, but condi builds don't have much for core utilities. That's a really interesting idea going down a condition route especially adding a control condition and could be useful to both power and condition builds. I'd personally prefer chill as mesmer already has some cripples already. Really good suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Ant.1605 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > Edit: For reference Mind Stab on greatsword is a 1.0 coefficient so the mantra does about 30% more damage, is instantly applied and can be used back to back. Being a utility skill, wouldn’t the mantra use the unequipped weapon strength - which is ~690, compared to the greatsword weapon strength of ~1050? My tooltips states that mind stab does ~1000-1100 dmg, but power spike only ~800. Also keep in mind MoP is currently used in the IA pchrono build to get to 33-34k dps (not talking about the 40k DT build because I believe that deserves to be nerfed) and is one of its few reliable aoe skills, so considering these little facts would be nice to add to the argument. Adding additional CD is fine since the rotation waits for MoP to be on 2 charges anyway. Charge time increase you might have to argue for. Alternatively, these could all be PvP changes but I know that some people don’t like taking that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > Also keep in mind MoP is currently used in the IA pchrono build to get to 33-34k dps (not talking about the 40k DT build because I believe that deserves to be nerfed) and is one of its few reliable aoe skills, so considering these little facts would be nice to add to the argument. pChrono does have Well of Calamity to fall back on, even if honestly that skill deserves to be buffed a bit, at least in pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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