Why do i have to spam LI + KP

[DerJoker.9081]

Hey,

im just getting into raiding and getting inside a group is hard pugging (although not impossible and i can get 2-4 kills every night), but last evening i got kicked for not spamming my LI + KP fast enough, at least thats what the commander told me when i asked him (i had the required LI + KP, thats why i was wondering)

Does anybody know why ppl require spamming the LI + KP really fast? I spammed it already, but appareantly not fast enough.

I have a Permanent Bank Access Contract, so i keep LI in the mats (KP is in inventory as usual) and need to chat-link them from there, that takes 3 seconds longer i guess.

Ty for the help and Happy Holidays

[sigur.9453]

you can fake your LI/KP with a chat code. without a macro you cant spam these codes in a fast manner, so most commies want that.

[zombyturtle.5980]

to spam fast, hold your mouse cursor over the stack of KP/LI, hold down ctrl button and then double click the stack 3-4

times very quickly.

[DerJoker.9081]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> you can fake your LI/KP with a chat code. without a macro you cant spam these codes in a fast manner, so most commies want that.

 

Ah ok, that explains that. But wouldn't I be able to copy paste the chat code and spam it, making the whole spam "check" useless?

 

> @"zombyturtle.5980" said:

> to spam fast, hold your mouse cursor over the stack of KP/LI, hold down ctrl button and then double click the stack 3-4

> times very quickly.

 

I'll try that next when I'm ingame again. I used Shift + Item etc, then press ENTER, the whole time, takes a bit longer :/

 

EDIT: thank you for helping :)

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"DerJoker.9081" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > you can fake your LI/KP with a chat code. without a macro you cant spam these codes in a fast manner, so most commies want that.

>

> Ah ok, that explains that. But wouldn't I be able to copy paste the chat code and spam it, making the whole spam "check" useless?

>

> > @"zombyturtle.5980" said:

> > to spam fast, hold your mouse cursor over the stack of KP/LI, hold down ctrl button and then double click the stack 3-4

> > times very quickly.

>

> I'll try that next when I'm ingame again. I used Shift + Item etc, then press ENTER, the whole time, takes a bit longer :/

>

> EDIT: thank you for helping :)

 

You can copy and paste the chat code but to spam it you have to either paste it and press enter each time, or paste it once, press up arrow then press enter. This usually takes over 1 second per chat link while spamming using the method I suggested links stacks in under 1 second.

 

It might seem like a stupidly small difference, but for experienced commanders, its very very noticable who is linking slowly ( and therefore likely faking) and those who are linking genuine stacks.

[DerJoker.9081]

Thank you for your help :)

[phs.6089]

Cus game is very advanced. In any other game I could see the info of a player on how many clears, boss kill they have in end-game instanced PVE.

[Safandula.8723]

Last time i had a guy that was pinging me 251dhuum tokens in 1 stack about 15 times. From that time i dont trust pinging anymore. Everything can be faked. He also pinged ak47 rifle lol

[LadyKitty.6120]

Looking at account name and what you described, you're on EU. They do have that weird requirement of Ctrl+Clicking LI+KP to make sure people aren't faking them. Which is kinda absurd as those can indeed faked by anyone with fast fingers and LI+KP DON'T tell anything about actual skill level. Kitty personally raids mainly on NA but she's also done some on EU lately and...to be honest, EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU while NA comms are fine with single ping or use arcdps instead of KP for skillproofing since some understand that KP doesn't necessarily tell anything about skill level but first pull in a wing clear tells who knows their stuff and who doesn't.

Kitty personally uses "(Wing) (Boss) LF (Classes). Know your stuff." as her LFG message and she tends to get relatively good squads with that.

 

Apologies for somewhat rantsome comment.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"LadyKitty.6120" said:

> Kitty personally uses "(Wing) (Boss) LF (Classes). Know your stuff." as her LFG message and she tends to get relatively good squads with that.

 

Must be so nice there in NA that using just that listing you get good squads. In EU my squad used to have a message like that and we never got anyone worth playing with, they were all silent people that didn't have any kind of experience with the fights at all, yet they joined the listing anyway. So we had to use some form of LI/KP to root out that kind of garbage, but it didn't help much either because we were constantly getting fake LI pings anyway. I don't find the requirement to ping LI/KP multiple times as a bad one, maybe in NA you don't have so many fakers and NA players know how to read the LFG listings. Pinging LI/KP doesn't prove you know what you are doing, but it's an extra layer of protection, that from personal experience helped in getting better squad members.

 

Maybe it's the language barrier and words like "Experienced only" or "know your stuff" is lost in translation, I can't explain it otherwise why the pugs we get in EU are most of the time first timers, or simply terrible players, joining listings asking for experienced players only. The "requirements" exist because fakers exist. In an ideal world where that kind of player didn't troll groups trying to get carried, then we wouldn't need strict requirements. Don't blame the squads for having strict requirements, blame the terrible players that find all kinds of ways to join squads they shouldn't do so.

[Deepcuts.9740]

> @"LadyKitty.6120" said:

> Looking at account name and what you described, you're on EU. They do have that weird requirement of Ctrl+Clicking LI+KP to make sure people aren't faking them. Which is kinda absurd as those can indeed faked by anyone with fast fingers and LI+KP DON'T tell anything about actual skill level. Kitty personally raids mainly on NA but she's also done some on EU lately and...to be honest, EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU while NA comms are fine with single ping or use arcdps instead of KP for skillproofing since some understand that KP doesn't necessarily tell anything about skill level but first pull in a wing clear tells who knows their stuff and who doesn't.

> Kitty personally uses "(Wing) (Boss) LF (Classes). Know your stuff." as her LFG message and she tends to get relatively good squads with that.

>

> Apologies for somewhat rantsome comment.

 

Best squads I lead were without any LI requirements in lfg. When asked, people say that asking for LI attracts good players :)

I was actually being told several times in squad chat that I should ask for LI if I want good players.

Just curios, who is this "Kitty" and where that "EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU" comes from?

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

> @"Deepcuts.9740" said:

> > @"LadyKitty.6120" said:

> > Looking at account name and what you described, you're on EU. They do have that weird requirement of Ctrl+Clicking LI+KP to make sure people aren't faking them. Which is kinda absurd as those can indeed faked by anyone with fast fingers and LI+KP DON'T tell anything about actual skill level. Kitty personally raids mainly on NA but she's also done some on EU lately and...to be honest, EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU while NA comms are fine with single ping or use arcdps instead of KP for skillproofing since some understand that KP doesn't necessarily tell anything about skill level but first pull in a wing clear tells who knows their stuff and who doesn't.

> > Kitty personally uses "(Wing) (Boss) LF (Classes). Know your stuff." as her LFG message and she tends to get relatively good squads with that.

> >

> > Apologies for somewhat rantsome comment.

>

> Best squads I lead were without any LI requirements in lfg. When asked, people say that asking for LI attracts good players :)

> I was actually being told several times in squad chat that I should ask for LI if I want good players.

> Just curios, who is this "Kitty" and where that "EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU" comes from?

 

"Kitty" refers to themself. For what ever reason they always talk in the 3rd person. Highly irritating to read if you ask me and confusing at times.

[Talindra.4958]

If you want good pug run in EU. Right on reset the few groups are speed clears. NA do not have that kind of pugs.

But NA people are less toxic.. and more chatty.

Population in EU for raids are greater than NA. Skill wise generally I put my view on EU. NA are more guild orientated.

My comment here is added after reading kitty's

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Deepcuts.9740" said:

> Just curios, who is this "Kitty" and where that "EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU" comes from?

The first part (about "Kitty") got answered above. The second part is however really weird. Assuming the initial assertion (about average skill per li being much higher in NA than EU) is true (which it probably is - the EU raiding community is not only much bigger, but additionally there's a lot more _casual_ raiders in it, which obviously lowers the average skill level), then EU using more strict requirements would seem rather obvious, as with these same requirements the average skill level of EU pug would be (according to the assumption) 4x lower than in US. Clearly, in such a situation, to get the same average skill level, requirements in EU would have to be much higher.

 

So i'm not really sure what Kitty considers to be so ridiculous in that situation.

[Reverielle.3972]

Basically any group that wants a ping don't worry about joining.

It's a fair indication (but not always) that they're elitist fools.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Deepcuts.9740" said:

> > Just curios, who is this "Kitty" and where that "EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU" comes from?

> The first part (about "Kitty") got answered above. The second part is however really weird. Assuming the initial assertion (about average skill per li being much higher in NA than EU) is true (which it probably is - the EU raiding community is not only much bigger, but additionally there's a lot more _casual_ raiders in it, which obviously lowers the average skill level), then EU using more strict requirements would seem rather obvious, as with these same requirements the average skill level of EU pug would be (according to the assumption) 4x lower than in US. Clearly, in such a situation, to get the same average skill level, requirements in EU would have to be much higher.

>

> So i'm not really sure what Kitty considers to be so ridiculous in that situation.

 

Astral, IMO, it isn't because EU has more strict requirements, it is just simply the way they play the game or any game. EU players talk less and are not as patience, a lot have language barriers. They don't treat anybody or everybody equal unless they gain their respect.. eu people also come from different culture & background.. there's French, Spanish, Portuguese, polish, Romanian, dutch etc. etc. EU players have always been this way in the game with such attitude, i been playing with EU community since GW1 pvp , hardcore pve etc..

I find NA players "communicate" as part of the primary requirement in LFG pug. As long as you talk/type and you will be given a chance.

EU do not use such ways. they print clearly in description what they need and they will use all sort of ways they can invent to prove your kills and successive clears (instead of getting you to jump into discord and start talking and chit chatting away). These days EU are much better there are a lot of group without requirements and more easy going but runs may not be great or fast. They are still less talkative compared to NA though. What you find funny, they don't always do. I like EU way :) .. since gw1.

 

disregard how NA and EU players play and how pug experiences each provides.. they fit certain players playstyle.

everyone has different taste and opinion on how other play, if you do not like it, there is no need to be I don't know.... it is how it is..

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

NA raiders better than EU?! LOL...

[Aktium.9506]

LI pinging is fine, it's fun to ping 1k+ LI and Armor. Even though it would be better for the game if there was simply an inspect feature so you could see gear/build + how many times a player killed a boss.

 

I'm biased against KP though because I eat them to conserve inventory space. I really wouldn't mind if Anet made decorations auto consume just to get rid of KPs.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> NA raiders better than EU?! LOL...

On average. The EU top may be better, but there's a lot more casual players whose skill is quite lower. So, not only the disparity between top and bottom on EU is bigger, but also there's a lot more players at the bottom.

 

[Malediktus.9250]

I wish more people would use killproof.me

pinging LI/LD/kp is just an annoying hassle

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > > Basically any group that wants a ping don't worry about joining.

> > > > It's a fair indication (but not always) that they're elitist fools.

> > >

> > > Way to cover just about 95% of all raid groups in EU except for training runs (and even these require pings on some difficult bosses).

> > >

> > > Don't think any one has managed to be this condescending in a while.

> > Well I'm sorry if the truth hurts. But the raid community is far more toxic than the PvP one in my experience (I have legendary armour from both), at least the US servers. As a new player to raids I would encourage them to stay away from such groups, there are a few other ones out there that don't use such requirements and are very nice.

> > I do not know anything about the EU community though, for all I know they might be a wonderful group. I should have clarified that.

> > And, with all due respect, I believe you may need to look up just what condescending means, because it seems clear it doesn't what you think it does, also perhaps try to understand what 'fair indication' means, and finally what '(but not always)' implies too. Your retort is a perfect example of people reading what they want out of something, not what's actually written. But it's the official forums, why would one be hopeful of anything different: That is my shortcoming.

>

> Oh I think your reply shows nicely where you are coming from and that my choice of word was fitting.

>

> But please, be more general without giving examples or showing any proof while condemning an entire group of players.

>

> Especially since you seem not to understand the concept of why people demand pinging of things in the first place.

>

> Oh and FYI, pinging of something was not invented with raids in this game. It goes back as far as dungeons in vanilla and the reason back then is similar to the reason now: lack of in game information and player ability to create parties according to one's own desire and specifications.

 

Not that you will ever be able to get a party that is completely to your liking. I understand though, working with who you get in your party requires social skills that are below average for average MMO players. I would wager that since the US as a culture is more social based, more extroverted (again, on average) they also tend to work things out by communicating (which is also easier). It's actually striking that you believe that the game lacks ability to create parties to your liking, may be just because players are human, and what you desire is a bunch of robots that do exactly what you expect of them. (ideally speaking)

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > > > Basically any group that wants a ping don't worry about joining.

> > > > > It's a fair indication (but not always) that they're elitist fools.

> > > >

> > > > Way to cover just about 95% of all raid groups in EU except for training runs (and even these require pings on some difficult bosses).

> > > >

> > > > Don't think any one has managed to be this condescending in a while.

> > > Well I'm sorry if the truth hurts. But the raid community is far more toxic than the PvP one in my experience (I have legendary armour from both), at least the US servers. As a new player to raids I would encourage them to stay away from such groups, there are a few other ones out there that don't use such requirements and are very nice.

> > > I do not know anything about the EU community though, for all I know they might be a wonderful group. I should have clarified that.

> > > And, with all due respect, I believe you may need to look up just what condescending means, because it seems clear it doesn't what you think it does, also perhaps try to understand what 'fair indication' means, and finally what '(but not always)' implies too. Your retort is a perfect example of people reading what they want out of something, not what's actually written. But it's the official forums, why would one be hopeful of anything different: That is my shortcoming.

> >

> > Oh I think your reply shows nicely where you are coming from and that my choice of word was fitting.

> >

> > But please, be more general without giving examples or showing any proof while condemning an entire group of players.

> >

> > Especially since you seem not to understand the concept of why people demand pinging of things in the first place.

> >

> > Oh and FYI, pinging of something was not invented with raids in this game. It goes back as far as dungeons in vanilla and the reason back then is similar to the reason now: lack of in game information and player ability to create parties according to one's own desire and specifications.

>

> Not that you will ever be able to get a party that is completely to your liking. I understand though, working with who you get in your party requires social skills that are below average for average MMO players. I would wager that since the US as a culture is more social based, more extroverted (again, on average) they also tend to work things out by communicating (which is also easier). It's actually striking that you believe that the game lacks ability to create parties to your liking, may be just because players are human, and what you desire is a bunch of robots that do exactly what you expect of them. (ideally speaking)

>

>

 

The US raid scene is vastly smaller than the EU one. Now we could speculate a lot if the PUG raiding scene is as established in the US or not, but without official data it woild be just that, speculation.

 

If it were, aka people PUG raid a lot more in the EU, where as people in the US might join a guild more often to raid. That alone might be an additional reason for a huge disparity.

 

Nobody demands a bunch of robots. When you need to filter though for basic boss mechanics because a vast majority of the (way bigger) raiding scene might not be as experienced, then LI and KP become useful.

 

This has nothing to do with people being human or robots but how diverse the player pool is skill wise. Simply put: the EU PUG raiding pool is likely way more diverse skill wise than the US one due to sheer size.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> Not that you will ever be able to get a party that is completely to your liking. I understand though, working with who you get in your party requires social skills that are below average for average MMO players. I would wager that since the US as a culture is more social based, more extroverted (again, on average) they also tend to work things out by communicating (which is also easier).

No amount of communicating will let you do the boss if the skill\experience level of the whole group is way too low. People are there for an easy clear, not for hours-long training session on a single boss. For those, there are specially labelled 'training" LFGs. It may work in US, but in EU where casual raider pugs heavily outnumber veterans it's not really viable. You do need prefiltering.

 

By the way, US also has prefiltering, you just don't see it, because it happens before LFG stage. US simply has way lower percentage of new/unskilled raiders in pugs, because for the most part they either get a guild that will teach them ropes, or they won't start raiding at all. Why it is that way (and why EU is so different in that aspect) i have no idea though.

 

Yes, i don't like it either, but i recognize that it's not a problem due to people, but one caused by content difficulty.

 

 

[rabenpriester.7129]

Answer has been accepted, why are you guys still discussing OT stuff and throw insults towards the raid community?

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Deepcuts.9740" said:

> > Just curios, who is this "Kitty" and where that "EU's requirements are totally ridiculous considering that average skill level per LI is about 4x higher on NA than EU" comes from?

> The first part (about "Kitty") got answered above. The second part is however really weird. Assuming the initial assertion (about average skill per li being much higher in NA than EU) is true (which it probably is - the EU raiding community is not only much bigger, but additionally there's a lot more _casual_ raiders in it, which obviously lowers the average skill level), then EU using more strict requirements would seem rather obvious, as with these same requirements the average skill level of EU pug would be (according to the assumption) 4x lower than in US. Clearly, in such a situation, to get the same average skill level, requirements in EU would have to be much higher.

>

> So i'm not really sure what Kitty considers to be so ridiculous in that situation.

 

It's a person that refers to themselves in the third person, so, take their standards for ridiculousness with a HUGE BRICK of salt.

 

Don't forget that EU also has a way more diverse cultural background than the NA servers, which means that performance does vary. Also, looking at a lot of posts in PVE and PvP forums, i'd say that the average EU player seems to be more skilled than the average NA players, and given their descriptions of the "niche" communities, it also seems that EU players are more likely to be the kind that does "everything", while NA tend to "specialize" in content, which would explain the perceived higher skill level in raids.

I'll say that this opinion is entirely subjective and formed mostly from reading third party recounts on forum, so i can be absolutely wrong.

 

As a EU player, yeah, it's a thing that they ask for spamming since for a while people were using chat codes to mask their actual experience. Also, do keep in mind, KP is NOT meant to be a proof of skill. Whoever says that is obviously not thinking it through, it's used as a proof of EXPERIENCE. If you have KP, you obviously had to have completed the instance, so you know what it entails, and commanders don't have to explain the mechanics all over, especially when you know you might have a high percentage of people who don't speak english or don't speak it that well and might not comprehend the instructions.