Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Kitten.4162 said: > Look at all these courageous warriors defending the wonderful Full Counter 15 second "I'm immune and nobody can hit me with a nice set of boons and condis for a period of time", at least necros have to have life force to cast something as broken as a stacked shade on top of a point LUL > > Not to mention Spellbreakers can legitimately 3v1 in SPvP. > > Oh and let's not forget in WvW where I watched streamers play Spellbreaker where they can effectively run away from an entire zerg of 5-10 people by themselves and usually take a few people down because they have an elite skill that takes 15 seconds to recharge (or less) xd > > Yeah, they don't need a nerf you're just bad! l2p xd ;) Yeah, l2p :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 When I tried SB, you knew instantly who the garbage tier players were. And I had my fair share of death at the hands of people who saw what I was doing and acted appropriately. And killed me. Because they aren't mindless silly geese. Because they learned 2 play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 As an added note... I don't see any threads titled "need help countering sb" or "tips on fighting warriors" No just baby "ZOMG NERF" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitten.4162 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Go to any dueling server and look at how many warriors there are bashing skulls in while back pedalling and using their heal skill while counter is on CD and tell me to l2play LUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > As an added note... > > I don't see any threads titled "need help countering sb" or "tips on fighting warriors" > > No just baby "ZOMG NERF" Pretty much that. Which is just...disappointing. I actually fought a Core Warrior today in WvW, they were running sword-shield/gs with me running on my Spellbreaker and it was just a flat out stalemate. Neither of us could kill the other. They avoided triggering my FC as much as possible unless I made a point to time it right, I even popped it just so they would pull back on the pressure so my Adrenal Health and Healing Signet would restore my health, they also dodged the damage from FC frequently even if they did end up triggering it. Now see...if more players applied an appropriate mindset to fighting a Spellbreaker, even in team fights, then maybe they wouldn't complain so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitten.4162 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 One of the best players on this game that visits the dueling servers named Kronos from the guild FEAR, I renown PvPer and Warrior - admits to Spellbreaker being way overtuned - someone who has literal years of experience, one multiple dueling tournaments - says _yeah Spellbreaker is overtuned and needs to have its talents/abilities toned down to other profession's level_ He's not some drooling retard that's typing on the forum with 800 rating that thinks "Oh a 15 second complete immunity that lets me punish people regardless of if they hit me or not, because I can hit them while I have this really cool ability up", he actually plays the game LUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeghart.9841 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Amadeus.5687 said: > While I for a large part agree with you warriors, its simply not true to say it dosnt work with spamming full counter... as long as minions of all sorts and most importantly mesmer clones triggers it, then you can very much spam it... thats what every single spellbreaker do when I meet them in WvW. > > And while your right with the amount of damage it does, its worth poiting out it does its damage in a large AoE. Eviscreate hits a single target, unless people stack on each other. And Eviscreate comes with super obvious animations. > Tho I do think the damage part is fine on it If mesmer clones didn't trigger it, Spellbreaker would be completely useless against shatter builds. Not to mention Mesmers in general don't have too many problems with Spellbreakers, since they have access to plenty of evades. **Blurred Frenzy on its own activates Full Counter, dodges it and damages the Spellbreaker on subsequent hits**. And yes, the damage is in a large AoE. But the skill on its own is the only burst of the Warrior that can be **useless** if not activated. It has more risk to it than any of the others, I'd say it deserves a bit more range. Not to mention that again, the damage is of a **tier 1 eviscerate**. Other Warrior specs would only use that _in their nightmares_, since T3 bursts do almost twice the damage. It's really not impressive at all. We're talking about the equivalent of a few GS autoattacks. If it wasn't AoE but single target, it would be complete trash. > @Kitten.4162 said: > He's not some drooling kitten that's typing on the forum with 800 rating that thinks "Oh a 15 second complete immunity that lets me punish people regardless of if they hit me or not, because I can hit them while I have this really cool ability up", he actually plays the game LUL You can't do anything but move while Full Counter is active. Complete Immunity? What? Full Counter is a single block. Are you talking about resistance? Because that's definitely not immunity. Thanks for proving the point that it has something to do with l2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus.5687 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Zeghart.9841 said: > > @Amadeus.5687 said: > > While I for a large part agree with you warriors, its simply not true to say it dosnt work with spamming full counter... as long as minions of all sorts and most importantly mesmer clones triggers it, then you can very much spam it... thats what every single spellbreaker do when I meet them in WvW. > > > > And while your right with the amount of damage it does, its worth poiting out it does its damage in a large AoE. Eviscreate hits a single target, unless people stack on each other. And Eviscreate comes with super obvious animations. > > Tho I do think the damage part is fine on it > > If mesmer clones didn't trigger it, Spellbreaker would be completely useless against shatter builds. Not to mention Mesmers in general don't have too many problems with Spellbreakers, since they have access to plenty of evades. **Blurred Frenzy on its own activates Full Counter, dodges it and damages the Spellbreaker on subsequent hits**. > > And yes, the damage is in a large AoE. But the skill on its own is the only burst of the Warrior that can be **useless** if not activated. > It has more risk to it than any of the others, I'd say it deserves to have more range. > Not to mention that again, the damage is of a **tier 1 eviscerate**. Other Warrior specs would only use that _in their nightmares_, since T3 bursts do almost twice the damage. > It's really not impressive at all. We're talking about the equivalent of a few GS autoattacks. If it wasn't AoE but single target, it would be complete trash. > > Im not talking about shatter dmg, that counts for dmg done by the mesmer! Im talking about thr silly auto attacks clones do that deal 5ish dmg, triggers the damn thing! something I as a player have zero control over! it simply not okay, that full counter gets triggered by that! cause again, that just leads to spellbreakers spamming FC whenever its off CD... of cause it needs to trigger on shatters! ☺ Now if my clones randomly did not trigger full counter I might have time to try trigger it with blurrred frenzy myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeghart.9841 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Amadeus.5687 said: > Im not talking about shatter dmg, that counts for dmg done by the mesmer! > Im talking about thr silly auto attacks clones do that deal 5ish dmg, triggers the kitten thing! something I as a player have zero control over! > it simply not okay, that full counter gets triggered by that! cause again, that just leads to spellbreakers spamming FC whenever its off CD... > of cause it needs to trigger on shatters! ☺ > Now if my clones randomly did not trigger full counter I might have time to try trigger it with blurrred frenzy myself... To be fair, that can be a double edged sword: If I was a Spellbreaker and I wasted my Full Counter block on a measly 15 damage hit by a clone - especially if the mesmer then dodges the counterdamage after or is simply out of range - I'd be pretty pissed. But I understand the frustration of not having control of the trigger, just as much as I dislike that Spellbreakers are pretty much guaranteed to activate Full Counter during teamfights due to how easy it is to simply jump into an AoE. It's definitely an issue that should be looked into, even though it might be a bit counterintuitive to balance. Having Full Counter be unaffected by clones while letting phantasms be able to trigger it could be a tad confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus.5687 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Zeghart.9841 said: > > @Amadeus.5687 said: > > Im not talking about shatter dmg, that counts for dmg done by the mesmer! > > Im talking about thr silly auto attacks clones do that deal 5ish dmg, triggers the kitten thing! something I as a player have zero control over! > > it simply not okay, that full counter gets triggered by that! cause again, that just leads to spellbreakers spamming FC whenever its off CD... > > of cause it needs to trigger on shatters! ☺ > > Now if my clones randomly did not trigger full counter I might have time to try trigger it with blurrred frenzy myself... > > To be fair, that can be a double edged sword: If I was a Spellbreaker and I wasted my Full Counter block on a measly 15 damage hit by a clone - especially if the mesmer then dodges the counterdamage after or is simply out of range - I'd be pretty pissed. > > But I understand the frustration of not having control of the trigger, just as much as I dislike that Spellbreakers are pretty much guaranteed to activate Full Counter during teamfights due to how easy it is to simply jump into an AoE. It's definitely an issue that should be looked into, even though it might be a bit counterintuitive to balance. Having Full Counter be unaffected by clones while letting phantasms be able to trigger it could be a tad confusing. I can follow you on it being a duble edged sword, and thats really just more reason to fix clones not triggering it! Can see the complication with clones vs. phantasms, but I lean towards phantasms should't trigger it either. While they do more dmg, its stil out of my hand to prevent it from doing dmg while FC is up! But I'm not surr on that one A option would still be to have it absorb a minimum of dmg as I posted earlier... Not a huge amount of damage, just enough for it to not trigger from clones ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amityel.5324 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 guys just chill nerfhammer is on its way and I hope it will hit hard because 2 wars 2 necros everygame became a bit boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > @Loop.8106 said: > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said: > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said: > > > > > > > @Kaga.7629 said: > > > > > > > All those guys coming up in here and complaining instead of trying to evolve their playstyle to not spam everything the moment it becomes available...... Asking for ridiculous nerfs to FC while scourge is still literally 4-button-push melting people off the caps... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Full counter is strong ( and stronger than it should be because people still haven't evolved playstyles after a week) , giving it a 15 second colldown is *not* the answer. Because if you put Full Counter on a 15 second cooldown, then i'm gonna have to ask that *Steal* gets the same punishment, a 15 second cooldown. OH NO? Too unfair ? Too bad. Because that's what this bullpoo gung-ho lynching mob justice would be like if it turned around on thieves. Now that all the "teef" dropped their deadeyes when they couldn't stealth glitch and snipe without being seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's been one frikkin week. Until scourge gets shaved to not instantly melt people you can't even begin to start talking about real changes to FC. and a 15 second cooldown is not a real change, it's "WAAAAAA i can't deal" mooing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This sounds more like a "I can't play pvp without my crutch OP skill WAAAA" post. > > > > > > > > > > > > So SBs can mindlessly spam FC in team fights by just kitten in random AoE/clones/pets without looking at anything other than their skill bar and still get full benefit of FC procs but every single other class need to 100% pay attention to the SB on top of every thing else going on in the fight or they deserve to eat a 4k unblockable daze/slow condi bomb every 8 seconds? > > > > > > > > > > Funny. I didn't see you complain when DH was overpowered. Nope. You milked it. > > > > > > > > When was DH ever OP? Through all of HoT, DH has never been part of a ESL winning team. > > > > > > Umm for the first 2 month of HoT for starters. > > > The only point of my posts is to prove you are all hipocrytes. > > > > > > You cry for nerfs when it works against you. > > > Turn a blind eye when it benefits you. > > > > > > This is my problem. > > > > > > Again. I was there supporting YOUR class when it was facing nerfs. Where are you when they come after me? > > > > > > You're at the front with the pitchfork. > > > > It doesn't matter what you defended or what other didn't defend. Spellbreaker is so blatantly overpowered and over-represented in both Ranked, Unranked, ATs and the mATs. 50% of the finals (on the EU side) were warriors and necros. 30% of the game being warriors. > > Don't even try to claim that there's counterplay to it in its current state. That just furthers the evidence that you have no clue what you're talking about. > > > > Most of us are not asking for warriors to be removed from the game (even though I would love that right about now). We are asking Warriors to be brought into line with the other specs. There's NOTHING that can kill a warrior 1v1. There's nothing a warrior can't disengage from. There's nothing except for Scourge that can push a Spellbreaker off-node. > > > > As for a class not being represented in tournaments. Look at DH, by far the lowest participation rate and in the top with Revenant in terms of nerfs. > > Of course it matters. > > It's shows that unlike you I am not an opportunist twofaced hippocrite. > > You cry for nerfs when my class is OP > You cry against nerfs when your class is OP > > Sorry Would you have called out against the nerfs to Revenant after HoT release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop.8106 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > @Loop.8106 said: > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said: > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said: > > > > > > > @Kaga.7629 said: > > > > > > > All those guys coming up in here and complaining instead of trying to evolve their playstyle to not spam everything the moment it becomes available...... Asking for ridiculous nerfs to FC while scourge is still literally 4-button-push melting people off the caps... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Full counter is strong ( and stronger than it should be because people still haven't evolved playstyles after a week) , giving it a 15 second colldown is *not* the answer. Because if you put Full Counter on a 15 second cooldown, then i'm gonna have to ask that *Steal* gets the same punishment, a 15 second cooldown. OH NO? Too unfair ? Too bad. Because that's what this bullpoo gung-ho lynching mob justice would be like if it turned around on thieves. Now that all the "teef" dropped their deadeyes when they couldn't stealth glitch and snipe without being seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's been one frikkin week. Until scourge gets shaved to not instantly melt people you can't even begin to start talking about real changes to FC. and a 15 second cooldown is not a real change, it's "WAAAAAA i can't deal" mooing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This sounds more like a "I can't play pvp without my crutch OP skill WAAAA" post. > > > > > > > > > > > > So SBs can mindlessly spam FC in team fights by just kitten in random AoE/clones/pets without looking at anything other than their skill bar and still get full benefit of FC procs but every single other class need to 100% pay attention to the SB on top of every thing else going on in the fight or they deserve to eat a 4k unblockable daze/slow condi bomb every 8 seconds? > > > > > > > > > > Funny. I didn't see you complain when DH was overpowered. Nope. You milked it. > > > > > > > > When was DH ever OP? Through all of HoT, DH has never been part of a ESL winning team. > > > > > > Umm for the first 2 month of HoT for starters. > > > The only point of my posts is to prove you are all hipocrytes. > > > > > > You cry for nerfs when it works against you. > > > Turn a blind eye when it benefits you. > > > > > > This is my problem. > > > > > > Again. I was there supporting YOUR class when it was facing nerfs. Where are you when they come after me? > > > > > > You're at the front with the pitchfork. > > > > It doesn't matter what you defended or what other didn't defend. Spellbreaker is so blatantly overpowered and over-represented in both Ranked, Unranked, ATs and the mATs. 50% of the finals (on the EU side) were warriors and necros. 30% of the game being warriors. > > Don't even try to claim that there's counterplay to it in its current state. That just furthers the evidence that you have no clue what you're talking about. > > > > Most of us are not asking for warriors to be removed from the game (even though I would love that right about now). We are asking Warriors to be brought into line with the other specs. There's NOTHING that can kill a warrior 1v1. There's nothing a warrior can't disengage from. There's nothing except for Scourge that can push a Spellbreaker off-node. > > > > As for a class not being represented in tournaments. Look at DH, by far the lowest participation rate and in the top with Revenant in terms of nerfs. > > Of course it matters. > > It's shows that unlike you I am not an opportunist twofaced hippocrite. > > You cry for nerfs when my class is OP > You cry against nerfs when your class is OP > > Sorry You're outright lying. I have never cried against nerfs on DH. I agreed the traps needed changing. I agreed True Shots damage was too high and I agreed that DH F3 was a bit too strong. Do I wish we got something in return for the nerfs? Absolutly. Did I think DH was overpowered in an organized setting? No, quiet the opposite. In your post you outright agree that your class is overpowered. > "You cry for nerfs when my class is OP" The thing about nerfing OR buffing warriors that makes it so hit and miss is the complete lack of counterplay to their mechanics. I'm once again going to use guardian as an example, because it's the class I know the ins and outs of. Guardians rely on their boons for both damage (Retal) and sustain (Aegis + Protection + Fury). These all offers counterplay in the form of Boon-rip. Meaning, Necros, Spellbreakers and Sigil of Annulment. (Even Domination mesmers if people for some reason would run that). We have very limited Stability which makes us susceptible to CC's, therefor we must assign our utilities to Stunbreaks. (Judges Intervention for example.) Warriors is, correct me if I'm wrong the only class with access to pulsing stability, which they do need in order to not get kited into oblivion. But having a trait give 28% Stability uptime may be a bit too much. Anyway, the main offenders are Endure Pain and the immense amount of Resistance. These mechanics offer little to no counter-play as they give you complete immunity to one of the two damage types. Meaning, giving you too much of it and you become the unstoppable monsters that are Spellbreakers and to little you become the dumpster-tier joke that is Berserker. Warrior is one of the few classes that don't rely on boons keeping you alive. Other classes have to burn condi cleanses in order to live against condi classes, where are they can bait them out with a few strong condis at a time or try to completly overload you. Where as with warrior you simply have to wait the resistance / Stability / Endure Pain / Full Counter / Shield 5 out. There's absolutly nothing you can do against a warrior for as long as he has his cooldowns up. I will quote ArenaNets Warrior-class philosophy from 2012. > "They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions." The core design of warrior was to load a few skills (like evade frame on GS 3) as well as traits in order to be able to power through Protection uptimes. Now that you have boon-rip and near unlimited access to to Resistance so that you can't really get kited as much, Warriors have turned into a new level of power-house. This is the last attempt I will try to get you to see that I'm not trying to butcher the class. I'm trying to bring it in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 TIL: FC is more skillful to activate than no scope headshots. Grats to all the skillful warriors for knowing exactly when to press F2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Amityel.5324 said: > guys just chill nerfhammer is on its way and I hope it will hit hard because 2 wars 2 necros everygame became a bit boring Two necros every game was common even prepatch when necro was bad. Literally nothing changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @Amityel.5324 said: > > guys just chill nerfhammer is on its way and I hope it will hit hard because 2 wars 2 necros everygame became a bit boring > > Two necros every game was common even prepatch when necro was bad. Literally nothing changed. My last few games as a Spellbreaker had no other warriors and no necromancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havok.6073 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @Amityel.5324 said: > > guys just chill nerfhammer is on its way and I hope it will hit hard because 2 wars 2 necros everygame became a bit boring > > Two necros every game was common even prepatch when necro was bad. Literally nothing changed. Yeah, something changed, there are two SB instead of two DH, that is why the forums are a river of tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivantreil.3092 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 You know, after a while of playing this meta, i finally feel comfortable dealing against a SB, the 1v1's have been won so far to either a Sb with all his defensive Cd's burnt out, or because i Moa'd my opponent in the right moment (playing Core Engie). At least i can finally read and what to do with them. That said, playing against a SB is nowhere similar to dueling other classes, no other class pressures me in these duels so hard as the current SB, ranging them out is essential for winning them, the moment a SB tries to get at melee with me, it means 2 things, retreat and burn defensive stuff, or pop Elixir X. The most comfortable way to deal with them is +1 ing the fight, if he tries to focus me, i go invisible and try to let my teammate take the focus. Warriors saying that it's a l2p issue are right, but only half right, if it was totally a l2p issue, people would have dropped SB and they would be dealing it with their main classes. The popularity of the class currently, only proves how nuts can they be, "WHEN" the tide is at their favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @KryTiKaL.3125 said: > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > Arc Diviner does not have a longer cast time than FC. Full Counter's 1.5 sec time is the duration of the skill, not the cast time; the cast is instant. If there is no tell between when the skill activates and when it begins to counter, then it is extremely difficult to predict and evade, especially if this was achieved through anything besides direct skill usage by you. No one is going to be able to react that quickly. Payoff for getting the skill to work is all well and good, but it is beyond easy to do in most situations. > > What? No. Go into the PvP lobby and go test it. Get Full Counter to proc and watch for the cast bar when it does. It has a 1 and a half second activation time after the counter attack is triggered, it is **not** instant. You can check for these things yourself extremely easily. To activate the skill it is instant, sure, but the duration is 2 seconds, it just doesn't list it but the activation time of the actual **attack** is 1 and a half seconds. I suggest you take your own advice and test it. 1.5s is the total amount of time the full counter block animation will play for. AKA you have 1.5s to absorb a hit or else you don't deal the strike. The situation that both he and I are talking about is as follows: Imagine a ranger is using rapid-fire on you and you manage to close the gap while rapidfire is still going off. Lets say you pop full counter, then about 1-6 frames later, you are hit by an arrow. Then lets also assume you aren't affected by quickness and the ranger does NOT dodge and eats FC. The total amount of time between when you pressed f2 and when the ranger takes damage is about 0.25 to 0.5s. You know what the average human reflex time is? 0.26 to 0.3s. Then you factor in average click-to-action latency (about 0.07 to 0.16s). Oh, and this is all assuming that the ranger who is about to trigger FC stopped attacked so that they aren't locked into part of an animation which would delay dodge.. Sorry bud, but it's faster than human reaction time as is every other skill in the game that can land in 0.25 to 0.5s after casted. Hell, even Spear of Justice on dragonhunter with its 0.75s cast time is still mildly difficult to dodge in 1v1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Arcaedus.7290 said: > > @KryTiKaL.3125 said: > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > Arc Diviner does not have a longer cast time than FC. Full Counter's 1.5 sec time is the duration of the skill, not the cast time; the cast is instant. If there is no tell between when the skill activates and when it begins to counter, then it is extremely difficult to predict and evade, especially if this was achieved through anything besides direct skill usage by you. No one is going to be able to react that quickly. Payoff for getting the skill to work is all well and good, but it is beyond easy to do in most situations. > > > > What? No. Go into the PvP lobby and go test it. Get Full Counter to proc and watch for the cast bar when it does. It has a 1 and a half second activation time after the counter attack is triggered, it is **not** instant. You can check for these things yourself extremely easily. To activate the skill it is instant, sure, but the duration is 2 seconds, it just doesn't list it but the activation time of the actual **attack** is 1 and a half seconds. > > I suggest you take your own advice and test it. 1.5s is the total amount of time the full counter block animation will play for. AKA you have 1.5s to absorb a hit or else you don't deal the strike. The situation that both he and I are talking about is as follows: > > Imagine a ranger is using rapid-fire on you and you manage to close the gap while rapidfire is still going off. Lets say you pop full counter, then about 1-6 frames later, you are hit by an arrow. Then lets also assume you aren't affected by quickness and the ranger does NOT dodge and eats FC. The total amount of time between when you pressed f2 and when the ranger takes damage is about 0.25 to 0.5s. You know what the average human reflex time is? 0.26 to 0.3s. Then you factor in average click-to-action latency (about 0.07 to 0.16s). Oh, and this is all assuming that the ranger who is about to trigger FC stopped attacked so that they aren't locked into part of an animation which would delay dodge.. Sorry bud, but it's faster than human reaction time as is every other skill in the game that can land in 0.25 to 0.5s after casted. Hell, even Spear of Justice on dragonhunter with its 0.75s cast time is still mildly difficult to dodge in 1v1s. I must be superhuman then because I've dodged another Spellbreaker's Full Counter after triggering it. Oh and man, I must be going up against other superhuman individuals because they have triggered and dodged the damage from my Full Counter as well. Man, can I be a super hero? No wait...am I Kirito? No but really...it isn't faster than human reaction time. Also most animations, even cast/channeled abilities can be animation cancelled. Dodge is one of the main ways to do this with several abilities. So...what are you even going on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @SPESHAL.9106 said: > The problem is that it does too many things on such a short cooldown PLUS it's on a profession that already doesn't have to waste a cast on heal. Thus, it makes the profession far too potent for so little skill. The cooldown absolutely needs to change so that there is at least some skill and decision to use it versus just spamming. We need to gain adren for it.Same as do for a burst,then we choose to burst if upclose,or counter which can reset a burst..So if you deny counter you deny adren hp stacking - cleansing - bursting - resetting a burst.> @Arcaedus.7290 said: > In this thread: > > Most people: Please, small nerfs to full counter to balance it in pvp/wvw. > > Some of the people: Idk how full counter works, but it's kinda op, pls nerf. > > Warrior mains: Hurr durr durrr, stop spamming your skills, full counter is fine, l2p scrubs. > @Arcaedus.7290 said: > > @KryTiKaL.3125 said: > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > Arc Diviner does not have a longer cast time than FC. Full Counter's 1.5 sec time is the duration of the skill, not the cast time; the cast is instant. If there is no tell between when the skill activates and when it begins to counter, then it is extremely difficult to predict and evade, especially if this was achieved through anything besides direct skill usage by you. No one is going to be able to react that quickly. Payoff for getting the skill to work is all well and good, but it is beyond easy to do in most situations. > > > > What? No. Go into the PvP lobby and go test it. Get Full Counter to proc and watch for the cast bar when it does. It has a 1 and a half second activation time after the counter attack is triggered, it is **not** instant. You can check for these things yourself extremely easily. To activate the skill it is instant, sure, but the duration is 2 seconds, it just doesn't list it but the activation time of the actual **attack** is 1 and a half seconds. > > I suggest you take your own advice and test it. 1.5s is the total amount of time the full counter block animation will play for. AKA you have 1.5s to absorb a hit or else you don't deal the strike. The situation that both he and I are talking about is as follows: > > Imagine a ranger is using rapid-fire on you and you manage to close the gap while rapidfire is still going off. Lets say you pop full counter, then about 1-6 frames later, you are hit by an arrow. Then lets also assume you aren't affected by quickness and the ranger does NOT dodge and eats FC. The total amount of time between when you pressed f2 and when the ranger takes damage is about 0.25 to 0.5s. You know what the average human reflex time is? 0.26 to 0.3s. Then you factor in average click-to-action latency (about 0.07 to 0.16s). Oh, and this is all assuming that the ranger who is about to trigger FC stopped attacked so that they aren't locked into part of an animation which would delay dodge.. Sorry bud, but it's faster than human reaction time as is every other skill in the game that can land in 0.25 to 0.5s after casted. Hell, even Spear of Justice on dragonhunter with its 0.75s cast time is still mildly difficult to dodge in 1v1s. Lets assume im a billionaire and never have to work a day in my life again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Loop.8106 said: >The core design of warrior was to load a few skills (like evade frame on GS 3) as well as traits in order to be able to power through Protection uptimes. Now that >you have boon-rip and near unlimited access to to Resistance so that you can't really get kited as much, Warriors have turned into a new level of power-house. >This is the last attempt I will try to get you to see that I'm not trying to butcher the class. I'm trying to bring it in line. I believe Anet originally referred to it as roles with holes. Its the balance philosophy they followed. The holes were the apparent weaknesses of each class. Like with guardian, their weakness is boon strip and sluggish mobility. They were meant to get into combat and stay there according to the original balance team. Warrior like wise was suppose to be different than guardian, instead of being boon centric they were suppose to use raw power. Its why if you look at the original core traits they didn't have access to things like protection. Hell, warrior wasn't even suppose to have a great deal of condi removal. When they added cleansing ire, they were throwing warrior a bone. Because they didn't want to move too far away from its original design. Which leads to something else. Originally Guardian had the same health tier as warrior. But due to their high protection up time and access to blocks, they were nerfed to ele tier health. 5 years later we got warriors with high block up time and protection. Its a twist in philosophy and its the result of Anet losing sight of the holes in roles philosophy. What they need to do is go back to their original intention with classes, instead of trying to get rid of their weaknesses all together. You need apparent weaknesses to have respectable counter play. Spellbreaker is a example of everything wrong with the game balance wise and how Anet does not care about pvp what so ever. Damage is too high, sustain is too high, aoes are too much, everything needs to be toned down a few notches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartharina.3542 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said: > > > The most i would accept is a 10 second CD and have the daze only got the one who triggered it. Anything more and you'll destroy the sped and make it useless in all modes. > > > > This. > > > > People seem to think that Warrior shouldn't be viable. They just don't want to learn how to kite a melee class, so instead they cry and cry until anet nerfs and it becomes a trash class for the next season. This is because warrior is a class that has no stealth and is almost entirely confined to single target melee damage, as opposed to being able to 12345 a billion ranged AoE abilities like many of the other classes. As a result of these limitations, Warrior *has* to be tough to kill or else it immediately becomes fodder. > > > > Hopefully anet has learned to ignore the over-reaction people have this time. > > Yeah, as if any class but thief or druid could actually kite a greatsword warrior. Nobody's buying your BS. > > A necro isn't going to kite a warrior, a guardian isn't going to kite a warrior. An engineer is not going to kite a warrior, and especially an elementalist isn't going to kite a warrior. > > Drop the crap. Elementalist can't kite a warrior? what league are you in, bronze?! Engineer has plenty of tools to kite a warrior, or otherwise shut it down. Guardians can go toe-to-toe with warriors with a 50/50 chance of winning. Necros don't kite warriors - they just feed those boons right back to them, while laughing off the Warrior's attempts to scratch their excessive health (Barrier/Shroud). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leolas.6273 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Spellbreaker is overtuned and i main one. Nothing else to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivantreil.3092 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Sartharina.3542 said: > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said: > > > > The most i would accept is a 10 second CD and have the daze only got the one who triggered it. Anything more and you'll destroy the sped and make it useless in all modes. > > > > > > This. > > > > > > People seem to think that Warrior shouldn't be viable. They just don't want to learn how to kite a melee class, so instead they cry and cry until anet nerfs and it becomes a trash class for the next season. This is because warrior is a class that has no stealth and is almost entirely confined to single target melee damage, as opposed to being able to 12345 a billion ranged AoE abilities like many of the other classes. As a result of these limitations, Warrior *has* to be tough to kill or else it immediately becomes fodder. > > > > > > Hopefully anet has learned to ignore the over-reaction people have this time. > > > > Yeah, as if any class but thief or druid could actually kite a greatsword warrior. Nobody's buying your BS. > > > > A necro isn't going to kite a warrior, a guardian isn't going to kite a warrior. An engineer is not going to kite a warrior, and especially an elementalist isn't going to kite a warrior. > > > > Drop the crap. > > Elementalist can't kite a warrior? what league are you in, bronze?! > > Engineer has plenty of tools to kite a warrior, or otherwise shut it down. Guardians can go toe-to-toe with warriors with a 50/50 chance of winning. > > Necros don't kite warriors - they just feed those boons right back to them, while laughing off the Warrior's attempts to scratch their excessive health (Barrier/Shroud). As an Engineer, yes we have the tools for kite a warrior, however, they have to be used at the right moment otherwise the warrior will catch up and tear you apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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