Where are the mount skeptics from the old forums?

[otto.5684]

I actually liked the mounts in the demo testing and pre-release, but after release I do not. They ruin the game, making traveling irrelevant.

[Endless Soul.5178]

We're here, but as stated previously, it's pointless to talk about it now. _~shrugs~_

[Grimheart.2853]

What you fail to realise is that the general claims anti-mount people made back then are mostly still valid, and that mount supporters didn't win any debate on the topic.

 

The thing is that mount supporters mostly just wanted a skin to put on top of their character that would also increase their speed. What we got was NOT that.

 

Our mounts are controlled in an organic and immersive way that other MMOs disregard. There was no active discussion on that from the mount supporters.

 

Our mounts are tied to the new map exploration in a creative and fun way, rather than just giving a speed bump. There was no active discussion on that from the mount supporters.

 

Our mounts are obtained, if followed a proper chronological order, after you got to explore the core world on foot during personal story, and after you made your way through the treacherous enviroment of the unforgiving jungle. That means core world's feel gets broken pretty late in the game, when the novelty is gone anyway for a new player, and everything that's left to do there is basically world completion. There was no active discussion on that from the mount supporters.

 

People changed their minds because A-Net didn't introduce those soulless generic husks they didn't want in their expirience, they changed their minds because the devs managed to surprise everyone with content unique enough to compliment the project, rather than taint it.

 

Screw gryphon though. That thing has no right to be as good as it is.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

> @Tekey.7946 said:

> The whole discussion about mounts seems to have shifted 180 degrees since Path of Fire.

> In the old forums there were lots of people opposed to mounts **in general**. As well as people who said they're alright with mounts as long as they're **pure cosmetic items**.

> Or if they add the common **25% or 33% speed buff** - to get rid of the signets in your builds.

>

> Other than one thread (which dealt more with the griffon in particular), I couldn't see many people that are opposed to mounts anymore.

> I know there are several people who first thought mounts weren't a good idea but then changed their minds about it when they saw them (because of their special implementation and abilities in GW2). But I don't believe that **every single one** of them (hundreds or thousands of people) **drastically changed their minds** about them and no skeptics remained.

> There were people who didn't want to see mounts at all and now we even have a griffon being able to fly infinitely if you do it right. Did they leave the game? Did they just accept it?

>

> This is not a thread to discuss the features in general since they're already fully implemented now.

> I just want to undestand the shift of opinions that happened within an **extremely short amount of time** - I just can't explain it by myself.

> **Are there still any mount skeptics left?**

 

I was one of the people that was against Mounts. I still am against mounts. But I realize now that I was, and am, against mounts as they exist in other games, which is to say, nothing more than a cosmetic speedboost. What we got are far more than a cosmetic speedboost. We gained special terrain breaking abilities. Super high jump to bypass areas indiscriminately. Leaps and teleports to vastly change how we traverse the world. The ability to ignore water. The ability to fly, or effectively fly. This isn't just a way to run fast. It also isn't a scenario where the mount is representative of the person/character, it's representative of the need at the moment.

 

I'm happy for this. I'm also a fan of the enter combat mechanic, which takes it another step from being just a cosmetic speedboost. I will say the mounts heavily remove the value of character speed off of mounts. But for the utility granted it's a trade I'm willing to make.

[castlemanic.3198]

> @Grimheart.2853 said:

> What you fail to realise is that the general claims anti-mount people made back then are mostly still valid, and that mount supporters didn't win any debate on the topic.

>

> The thing is that mount supporters mostly just wanted a skin to put on top of their character that would also increase their speed. What we got was NOT that.

>

> Our mounts are controlled in an organic and immersive way that other MMOs disregard. There was no active discussion on that from the mount supporters.

>

> Our mounts are tied to the new map exploration in a creative and fun way, rather than just giving a speed bump. There was no active discussion on that from the mount supporters.

>

> Our mounts are obtained, if followed a proper chronological order, after you got to explore the core world on foot during personal story, and after you made your way through the treacherous enviroment of the unforgiving jungle. That means core world's feel gets broken pretty late in the game, when the novelty is gone anyway for a new player, and everything that's left to do threre is basically world completion. There was no active discussion on that from the mount supporters.

>

> People changed their minds because A-Net didn't introduce those soulless generic husks they didn't want in their expirience, they changed their minds because the devs managed to surprise everyone with content unique enough to conpliment the project, rather than taint it.

 

I can't decide between thumbs up and helpful, so i'm sticking with thumbs up for now because *this is 100% true*.

 

The concept of mounts in the previous forums were always, *always*, about cosmetic speed boosts. Had cosmetic speed boosts been introduced to the game, I guarantee you skeptics like me would have rioted.

 

What we got are mechanically interesting speed boosts that interact with the environment in a Guild Wars 2 fashion that distinguishes it from almost every other mmo in existence, *even with the gryphon*.

 

They're not necessary nor needed within core tyria, that point still stands because waypoint distribution and map design were not altered (ignoring invisible walls), meaning that mounts have become a bonus feature for core tyria.

 

Mounts, in my opinion, are absolutely crucial for HoT maps because HoT maps have gone from utterly dreadful and horrific experiences to manageable, all because of mounts. I literally quit the game and didn't come back until season 3 began because i hated heart of thorns maps with a passion. I now have the ability to traverse the maps without the huge hassle that it once was. Even after getting full gliding, nuhoch wallows and itzel poison training, i STILL believe HoT maps are a complete disaster and completely unfun without mounts.

 

As it is, as one of those mount skeptics from the old forums, I hated the idea of mounts, but GW2 did *justice* with mounts, they made mounts *fun*, not an unnecessary cosmetic speed boost. I love mounts now and enjoy taking them everywhere, even core tyria zones where they have the least mileage.

 

> Screw gryphon though. That thing has no right to be as good as it is.

 

***How dare you***

 

=p

[Auralae.7482]

I was perfectly fine with the idea of mounts and they were a major factor in my purchase of PoF. However, I really question the decision to allow mounts in central Tyria. I think they are a bit game breaking there, even though I enjoy blazing past mobs when trying to get to my destination.

[rdfaye.4368]

Mounts were implemented, so why argue about what is done? I do think Anet did a beautiful job on the design and controls on the mounts. But I still think they should have been banned from core Tyria. The maps are not designed for them, and the griffon especially allows too much to be skipped.

 

One of the things that made me fall in love with this game as a new player is the helpfulness of others. Many times if I was in trouble in a fight, another player just passing through would give me a hand, or rez me, without being asked. I fear that the mounts, especially griffon, will distance the riding players from those new players needing a hand. And something special from core Tyria will be lost.

 

So we are here, but since mounts were implemented, no point in complaing, and are getting on with the game.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @rdfaye.4368 said:

> Mounts were implemented, so why argue about what is done? I do think Anet did a beautiful job on the design and controls on the mounts. But I still think they should have been banned from core Tyria. The maps are not designed for them, and the griffon especially allows too much to be skipped.

>

> One of the things that made me fall in love with this game as a new player is the helpfulness of others. Many times if I was in trouble in a fight, another player just passing through would give me a hand, or rez me, without being asked. I fear that the mounts, especially griffon, will distance the riding players from those new players needing a hand. And something special from core Tyria will be lost.

>

> So we are here, but since mounts were implemented, no point in complaing, and are getting on with the game.

 

Downed icons show up from far enough away most griffon riders will dive in to help (literally) unless they would just run past without a mount.

[Ardid.7203]

I'm sure "skeptic" this is not the correct word, because I didn't denied any "believing", I just were truly aware of the multiple things adding mounts COULD break, and was very specific in my opinions about what Anet should have to do to make mounts acceptable for me. But Anet solved a lot of the problems with their implementation of the concept, so most of my fears were appeased. GW2 mounts are acceptable, in my opinion. :

 

- They are NOT just a speed boost. They have distinct animations and are less precise than the characters on foot most of the time, so they don't compete as directly with exploration builds as "normal" mounts would.

- They are NOT available in WvW and PvP, so the movement aspect of those modes is still in check.

- They are NOT displayed during combat or when interacting with npcs or actionable objects, greatly solving the visual clutter one could expect from "normal" mounts. (However, there are already some people complaining because they want to do everything without dismounting...)

- I don't know their impact on performance. I believe Anet must have done really well in this department because I haven't read a lot of complains about excesive loading due to mounts. But I can't be sure because I changed my computer for a way better one a few days before PoF release.

 

Mounts still damaged some of the basics exploration concepts in the game, trivializing a lot of content, in core maps specially. And they do create visual clutter, just not as unbearable as I feared.

I still don't think they are a truly valuable addition for the game. Don't feel like I gained anything that great except good animations and the option to skip a lot of exploring, and a new button to manage. If you don't see me complaining about them is because they are already here, and most of my warnings were at least taken on account by Anet.

[Coffietire.2783]

> @Adenin.5973 said:

> "People that actually want quality can suck it."

> You want quality mastery points? You don't want any mastery points? You want something completely different?

> I have no clue what you're meaning by that and this is exactly the problem with such comments like yours they don't amount or contribute to anything.

 

By quality content, they of course means facerolling the story in 2 hours, being able to ignore most of the map. Then go back to LA to continue oogling at their underboob thief.

[ShadowGryphon.6257]

> @Khisanth.2948 said:

> The controls are still sluggish and clumsy.

Yeah, but they can be gotten used to

>They went ahead and made large empty maps

Nope. not even close to being empty.

>while reducing the number of waypoints.

Yep, but so what?

>ANet didn't care before why would they start caring about that now?

They didn't?

 

 

[Jaquelidor.2618]

> @Fluffball.8307 said:

> Mounts in core Tyria are somewhere between a distraction to game-breaking.

 

Prior to their release I was for mounts. Having played MMOs for many, many years I didn't see that mounts could significantly change the game and the behaviour of the community. But as someone still working through Vanilla and seeing how players with mounts behave I've been slowly changing my mind. Maybe ANet didn't think through the implications of the mounts in Vanilla. Maybe they decided old content=don't care. Maybe they thought that since the game is well-known for it's community players wouldn't abuse the mounts. Unfortunately I'm seeing a rather steady change in the "feel" of the game since mounts were added. While the Griffon is the "target of the day" it's the Raptor which I find most abused during Events. Players on Raptors run ahead of those without mounts and proceed to one shot things just using the Raptor attack. On events where you need to kill/collect they're even worse, jumping ahead of a player without a mount and killing the MOb the player was obviously running to attack. I've been completely shut out of some Events by two or three players using Raptors.

 

I'm not going to petulantly demand mounts be disable in the Vanilla game. That would be naive and childish. Plus being able to use mounts in Vanilla was a selling point for PoF. I could use one of my boosts to get a level 80 character and acquire a mount to "level the playing field". But then would that make me any better than the players abusing them now? I guess I'm just sad watching the community which drew me to and convinced me to keep playing GW2 slide into the toxic behaviour so common in other MMOs.

[EdgarMTanaka.7291]

Well I am one of those who where against the mounts people where asking for, that is mounts only to move faster and skip mobs. Mounts as they are now are now is something in between of what I wanted. I wanted mounts to work more like the Griffons work while doing the achievements to unlock it. I mean that mounts are placed on different places of the maps and you can mount them and leave them but then you iether has to go back where you left them or find another.

 

I am okay with how they work now and I won't complain becouse they are fantastic, they are not the usuall WoW-mounts and that is super.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @Jaquelidor.2618 said:

> > @Fluffball.8307 said:

> > Mounts in core Tyria are somewhere between a distraction to game-breaking.

>

> Prior to their release I was for mounts. Having played MMOs for many, many years I didn't see that mounts could significantly change the game and the behaviour of the community. But as someone still working through Vanilla and seeing how players with mounts behave I've been slowly changing my mind. Maybe ANet didn't think through the implications of the mounts in Vanilla. Maybe they decided old content=don't care. Maybe they thought that since the game is well-known for it's community players wouldn't abuse the mounts. Unfortunately I'm seeing a rather steady change in the "feel" of the game since mounts were added. While the Griffon is the "target of the day" it's the Raptor which I find most abused during Events. Players on Raptors run ahead of those without mounts and proceed to one shot things just using the Raptor attack. On events where you need to kill/collect they're even worse, jumping ahead of a player without a mount and killing the MOb the player was obviously running to attack. I've been completely shut out of some Events by two or three players using Raptors.

>

> I'm not going to petulantly demand mounts be disable in the Vanilla game. That would be naive and childish. Plus being able to use mounts in Vanilla was a selling point for PoF. I could use one of my boosts to get a level 80 character and acquire a mount to "level the playing field". But then would that make me any better than the players abusing them now? I guess I'm just sad watching the community which drew me to and convinced me to keep playing GW2 slide into the toxic behaviour so common in other MMOs.

 

what happened is that those with xperience of what mounts do to mmorpgs tried to call it out exactly what is happening now in vanilla, and those that wanted mounts regardless argued for mounts.. Anet saw the latter and spoted an opportunity for another horozonal progression opportunity. Be careful for what you ask for as they say.

[JaddynnStarr.5201]

I was against mounts to begin with... Still am... but they have now been forced upon us and they have changed the basic game travel mechanics to make it work. So there is no need to continue fighting it, there are 2 options... leave them in and roll with it, or pull them out and add more WP's in to compensate. I don't see anet pulling them out so, no need to CONTINUE to beat a dead horse that is already been beaten into a liquid..... all you are doing is getting yourself wet...

[ONko.7460]

> @otto.5684 said:

> I actually liked the mounts in the demo testing and pre-release, but after release I do not. They ruin the game, making traveling irrelevant.

 

Sorry, what? How on earth mounts make travelling irrelevant? The ARE the travelling. And more fun than walking.

[Shaaba.5672]

> @Larenc.1269 said:

> Seriously though why did we not get a horse? The one mount that fits Gw they ignored it and put a "Giant Rabbit" and a "Raptor"

 

Does it really fit though? That's the ongoing question, isn't it? What happened to the horses that are referenced occasionally, but never seen. I like that we didn't get them.

[Dante.1763]

> @Shaaba.5672 said:

> > @Larenc.1269 said:

> > Seriously though why did we not get a horse? The one mount that fits Gw they ignored it and put a "Giant Rabbit" and a "Raptor"

>

> Does it really fit though? That's the ongoing question, isn't it? What happened to the horses that are referenced occasionally, but never seen. I like that we didn't get them.

 

They are just figments of the mists, we all are ;)

 

TBH the mounts we got fit GW2 much better than a horse would.

[castlemanic.3198]

Coming back to this discussion because it's become **very** apparent to me how broken mounts have become in core tyria. The number of invisible walls i've run into (or that one fun time where an invisible wall *spawned behind me*) has been infuriating. On top of that, the tuning on the engage skills needs a serious priority look on it, because I should not be one shotting 10 enemies on raptor, springer and griffon. Even though I've had fun with that, once I realised how I might be impacting other players in an event with canonball, i stopped. It's unfair to have that much of an advantage over others who don't have mounts. I do understand invisible walls when it comes to springers and griffons, I wish they weren't needed but the reality is in some cases they are, so those don't really have to be changed.

 

But yeah, the mounts have apparently brought some toxicity into the game (argued with someone on these forums about how they suggested other people were putting themselves at a disadvantage for not buying pof and that they should deal with it, like seriously?), not a fan of the toxicity, not a fan of the completely overtuned engage skills, I think these things need to be resolved as soon as possible, along with methods of making sure players on mounts do not prevent players without mounts from getting experience for events.

[BANISHED.9785]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> I can't speak for others, but as for myself, I'd have to say that I was only thinking about how mounts are handled in other games. Mounts in GW2 were handled **right**. Yeah, they're a speed boost, but between the unique handling and the utilitarian focus, ANet definitely built the best mount system in gaming today.

 

BDO mounts are kinda interesting.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @Goettel.4389 said:

> My guess is they're enjoying their mounts too much to roam the forums ;-)

 

My guess is once they decided to implement it, the people against it didn't see any logical reason to keep complaining and either left the game or bought the mounts. They did have valid concerns of which we are seeing now in reference to core tyria and new accounts unable to keep up. (bought a friend PoF/HoT but while he was free to play he would follow the people on mounts to an event that they would finish before he could run there, not knowing about swiftness and other methods of transport, he only played when I would so I could guide him around so he didnt miss out on anything)

 

I was against mounts but I wrongly assumed how mounts would be implemented. I love drifting on my Stingray, now I gotta find Steve Irwin. (if you're not Australian, you may have to google him to get that joke)

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

> @Coffietire.2783 said:

> > @Adenin.5973 said:

> > "People that actually want quality can suck it."

> > You want quality mastery points? You don't want any mastery points? You want something completely different?

> > I have no clue what you're meaning by that and this is exactly the problem with such comments like yours they don't amount or contribute to anything.

>

> By quality content, they of course means facerolling the story in 2 hours, being able to ignore most of the map. Then go back to LA to continue oogling at their underboob thief.

 

And then come here to complain about how there's "no content".

[Dante.1763]

> @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

> > @Coffietire.2783 said:

> > > @Adenin.5973 said:

> > > "People that actually want quality can suck it."

> > > You want quality mastery points? You don't want any mastery points? You want something completely different?

> > > I have no clue what you're meaning by that and this is exactly the problem with such comments like yours they don't amount or contribute to anything.

> >

> > By quality content, they of course means facerolling the story in 2 hours, being able to ignore most of the map. Then go back to LA to continue oogling at their underboob thief.

>

> And then come here to complain about how there's "no content".

 

I unno(im not saying there is no content btw) but i finished the story, all the maps, most of the collections including the Gryph, the funerary and the dwarven ruins in the first week and a half of playing 4-5 hours a day after work. Loved every minute and very much so got my moneys worth. But still, i would have liked so harder, or longer collections to achieve that would take weeks, or months to do in the time i have available.

[Djinn.9245]

> @Khisanth.2948 said:

> Still here but now that the rice is cooked and the poor horse has been beaten into a paste what is the point of saying repeating? The controls are still sluggish and clumsy. They went ahead and made large empty maps while reducing the number of waypoints. ANet didn't care before why would they start caring about that now?

 

Basically this. Mounts ended up being exactly what I thought but they are out now so what can we do? Anet isn't going to delete them all.

[Drew.1865]

Probably on their griffon mounts in game lol.