Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic concerns [Merged]

[yann.1946]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

>

> > It's not a scam. It upfront tells us what it does.

> > You might not like that, you might prefer a different item on the TP, but that's a design concern, not one about whether we're being deliberately misled.

>

> The fact is that the phrasing requires careful reading to interpret correctly. A lot of players are likely to buy the item thinking it means they'll recover a rune/sigil. It's therefor taking advantage of a likely misunderstanding. If they weren't trying to get unearned sales, they'd do more to make sure it's clear to buyers that this does NOT recover items. It's not a 'scam' per se, but it definitely fishes for sales from people who misread the text.

 

Did everyone who misread and ask get their money back?

 

Secondly I think the text is quite clear people where just hoping on something and quick to read whatever they wanted to read

[Vayne.8563]

> @"totaloverride.3240" said:

> > @"GWMO.4785" said:

> > Correct me if im wrong.. but i feel like im missing something here. The description on the Rune kit says "100% chance of salvaging upgrades". As where silver kit has 80% of RECOVERING upgrade. Copper kit has 20% chance of salvaging upgrades (it always did. i never got an actual rune or sigil from it ever since the change). Same for Mystic kit but 80%. And finally the black lion kit has 100% chance of recovering upgrade, excl. infusions.

> >

> > So...

> > Why do some of these kits say salvage and others recover? shouldnt these be the same with the cost being higher or lower depending on the kit?

> > Why does non of them actually recover the upgrade other then the black lion kit? i know its a chance. but very oddly it never happend...

>

> all silver/copper/runecraft are salvaging all runes/sigils

> so it's a scam

>

> i want tool not to salvage runes/sigils. only if i click on rune/sigil, then they should be salvaged.

> argument that "it is faster this way", is so stupid that i don't want to comment on it

>

> once we empty TP for low tier runes/sigil, new rune/sigil system will blowup, bcs 99% of salvage you get dust

> you think runes/ sigils are now costly? wait few months it will be pain in the * to craft or buy them

 

It's a scam only for those who don't read carefully. I read the description, saw it salvaged upgrades (not recovered them) and knew what it did before I bought it.

 

The language is pretty clear. You chose to see it as what you wanted to believe it did. That's not Anet's fault.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > As it is now, the new one blows the silver fed ones usage out of the water due to it being half the price with only a 5% loss at a chance of rare materials.

> > Until someone publishes ecto salvage rates for it, I can't agree. If runecrafter has a 5% smaller rate of 82% instead of of 87%, then it looks like silver-fed is slightly better.

> >

> > Which is more valuable in 6 months is going to depend a lot on the markets for ecto, symbols, and charms.

> >

> > **My recommendation** is that if you own silver-fed already, don't buy runecrafter. And vice-versa: don't by runecrafter if you own silver-fed. Use either on masterwork & rares.

> > If you do own both, use RC on masterwork, SF on

> >

> >

> > ****

> >

> > Some back of the envelope numbers for 100 rares, 80 of which include an upgrade (rough guess of rares found in the wild). Assume half armor, half weapons. For Runecrafter, we can expect 3.9*0.5 of symbols, and the same number of charms. For silver-fed, it's 80% of that.

> >

> > Silver-fed: 19.6 gold

> > * 87 ecto @19s = 16.6 gold

> > * 3.9 * 0.8 * 0.5 symbols * 1.17g average value = 1.8g

> > * 3.9 * 0.8 * 0.5 charms * 1.13g average value = 1.77 g

> > * Cost = 60c * 100 = 0.6g

> >

> > Runecrafter: 19.8 gold

> > * 82 ecto @19s (reasonable guess) = 15.6

> > * 3.9 *1 * 0.5 symbols * 1.17 =2.3

> > * 3.9 * 1 * 0.5 charms * 1.13 = 2.2

> >

> > That's a difference of 20 silver-fed in salvaging 100 rares, which is negligible especially considering the number of assumptions made. The more rares you get without an upgrade, the better silver-fed becomes. We also don't know the actual ecto drop rate from runecrafter, which could be much less than 82, and that would make it a lot less worthwhile.

>

> So, i just salvaged 325 rares using the runecrafters and got 345 ecto from it. However, i did notice that i didnt get any essence of luck from those rares. I did get 487 motes, but only 5 symbols.

 

Pretty sure we never got essences of luck from rares, with any salvage tool.

[Keefe.3821]

Basically, I wasted my money thinking the Runecrafter and Black Lion Salvage Kit worked the same. This really pisses me off.

 

Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic: Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 20% chance of rarer materials. 100% chance of salvaging upgrades.

 

Black Lion Salvage Kit: Double-click, then select an item in your inventory to salvage for crafting materials. 100% chance of recovering upgrades (excluding infusions). 50% chance to get rarer materials.

[Keefe.3821]

Just a PSA to those planning on buying this item and didn't understand its functions. IT DOES NOT work like a Black Lion Salvage Kit. It only salvages runes at a 100% rate and will NEVER recover them.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Keefe.3821" said:

> Basically, I wasted my money thinking the Runecrafter and Black Lion Salvage Kit worked the same. This really pisses me off.

>

> Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic: Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 20% chance of rarer materials. 100% chance of salvaging upgrades.

>

> Black Lion Salvage Kit: Double-click, then select an item in your inventory to salvage for crafting materials. 100% chance of recovering upgrades (excluding infusions). 50% chance to get rarer materials.

 

So send in a ticket explaining the confusion (politely) and asking for a refund.

[Keefe.3821]

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"Keefe.3821" said:

> > Basically, I wasted my money thinking the Runecrafter and Black Lion Salvage Kit worked the same. This really pisses me off.

> >

> > Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic: Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 20% chance of rarer materials. 100% chance of salvaging upgrades.

> >

> > Black Lion Salvage Kit: Double-click, then select an item in your inventory to salvage for crafting materials. 100% chance of recovering upgrades (excluding infusions). 50% chance to get rarer materials.

>

> So send in a ticket explaining the confusion (politely) and asking for a refund.

 

Its worth a shot I guess

 

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Keefe.3821" said:

> > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > @"Keefe.3821" said:

> > > Basically, I wasted my money thinking the Runecrafter and Black Lion Salvage Kit worked the same. This really pisses me off.

> > >

> > > Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic: Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. 20% chance of rarer materials. 100% chance of salvaging upgrades.

> > >

> > > Black Lion Salvage Kit: Double-click, then select an item in your inventory to salvage for crafting materials. 100% chance of recovering upgrades (excluding infusions). 50% chance to get rarer materials.

> >

> > So send in a ticket explaining the confusion (politely) and asking for a refund.

>

> Its worth a shot I guess

>

 

They are generally very helpful, so it's absolutely worth a try! Do it as soon as possible, but expect a response to take a few days.

[Randulf.7614]

As the other larger thread next to this already states. For ref, link is below

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64680/runecrafters-salvage-o-matic-concerns/p1

[Keefe.3821]

I made this thread as it really gets straight the point of the biggest concern with this item. It doesn't function like a Black Lion Salvage Kit which is what most people will find out the hard way.

[perilisk.1874]

I mean... I just can't understand the mindset of someone who would think an infinite-use BLSK would be available for 600 gems. 4800 gems, ok, I can see how you might be misled. But really, for the price of a few keys or upgrade extractors (which don't even destroy the item), you're going to get infinity BLSKs? If it sounds too good to be true...

[Ari.4023]

Cheaper and better than the Silver Salvage-o-matic... Now anyone who bought the silver one feels cheated yeah? Let us exchange the silver one for this.

Got silver back in the day but after a simple calculation it is cheaper to use mystic salvage kits so i'm not even using it, used it very very little.

 

This however, this I would use alot... But having the silver one just sitting in my bank while this better version exists.. FeelsBadMan.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ari.4023" said:

> Cheaper and better than the Silver Salvage-o-matic...

 

Actually, Silver-Fed is better in some niches, Runecrafter's in others.

* For more about the value of mats salvaged from one versus the other, see [this thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64720/which-salvage-kit-should-i-use-recommendations-now-with-data).

* ~~For the existing discussion about the description of the new Runecrafter's kit, see [that thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64680/runecrafters-salvage-o-matic-concerns-merged).~~ (thread got merged into this one)

[Ensign.2189]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> FYI the ratio isn't 20% or 25% for ecto. I really don't understand how ANet's description predicts the ecto rate and the few times they tried to clarify made things more opaque, not less (in my opinion anyhow).

 

When salvaging level 68+ rares, you have an X% chance to receive 1-3 ecto (equal chance of each). The other 1-X% of the time you receive 0-1 ecto (equal chance).

 

With a rare kit, that is a 1/12 chance of 3 ecto, 1/12 of 2 ecto, and an 11/24 chance of 1 ecto, for an average of 0.875 ecto per rare.

 

With the runecrafter kit, that is a 1/15 chance of 3 ecto, 1/15 of 2 ecto, and a 14/30 chance of 1 ecto, for an average of 0.80 ecto per rare.

 

With a common kit, that is a 1/30 chance of 3 ecto, 1/30 chance of 2 ecto, and a 29/60 chance of 1 ecto, for an average of 0.65 ecto per rare.

 

Hope that helps!

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ensign.2189" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > FYI the ratio isn't 20% or 25% for ecto. I really don't understand how ANet's description predicts the ecto rate and the few times they tried to clarify made things more opaque, not less (in my opinion anyhow).

>

> When salvaging level 68+ rares, you have an X% chance to receive 1-3 ecto (equal chance of each). The other 1-X% of the time you receive 0-1 ecto (equal chance).

>

> With a rare kit, that is a 1/12 chance of 3 ecto, 1/12 of 2 ecto, and an 11/24 chance of 1 ecto, for an average of 0.875 ecto per rare.

>

> With the runecrafter kit, that is a 1/15 chance of 3 ecto, 1/15 of 2 ecto, and a 14/30 chance of 1 ecto, for an average of 0.80 ecto per rare.

>

> With a common kit, that is a 1/30 chance of 3 ecto, 1/30 chance of 2 ecto, and a 29/60 chance of 1 ecto, for an average of 0.65 ecto per rare.

>

> Hope that helps!

 

That does. Thanks for the explanation.

[Solomko.3798]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Recommend uses:

> * Fine or less: copper-fed/basic

> * Masterwork: runecrafter's _or_ silver-fed if you don't have rc

> * Rares: silver-fed, mystic, or masterwork

> FYI to recover upgrades, there's the endless upgrade extractor that drops from the TP,

 

Sorry, what \ who \ where is TP? What is it TP?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Solomko.3798" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Recommend uses:

> > * Fine or less: copper-fed/basic

> > * Masterwork: runecrafter's _or_ silver-fed if you don't have rc

> > * Rares: silver-fed, mystic, or masterwork

> > FYI to recover upgrades, there's the endless upgrade extractor that ~~drops~~ can be acquired from the TP,

>

> Sorry, what \ who \ where is TP? What is it TP?

 

The trading post.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Solomko.3798" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > Recommend uses:

> > > * Fine or less: copper-fed/basic

> > > * Masterwork: runecrafter's _or_ silver-fed if you don't have rc

> > > * Rares: silver-fed, mystic, or masterwork

> > > FYI to recover upgrades, there's the endless upgrade extractor that drops from the TP,

> >

> > Sorry, what \ who \ where is TP? What is it TP?

>

> The trading post.

 

In the interests of accuracy, the TP is the Trading Post, but the Endless Upgrade Extractor is a super-rare drop from Black Lion Chests, which do not drop from the trading post -- although you can buy keys to unlock the chests on the TP.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Solomko.3798" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > Recommend uses:

> > > > * Fine or less: copper-fed/basic

> > > > * Masterwork: runecrafter's _or_ silver-fed if you don't have rc

> > > > * Rares: silver-fed, mystic, or masterwork

> > > > FYI to recover upgrades, there's the endless upgrade extractor that drops from the TP,

> > >

> > > Sorry, what \ who \ where is TP? What is it TP?

> >

> > The trading post.

>

> In the interests of accuracy, the TP is the Trading Post, but the Endless Upgrade Extractor is a super-rare drop from Black Lion Chests, which do not drop from the trading post -- although you can buy keys to unlock the chests on the TP.

 

Right, sorry I meant to write, "there's the endless upgrade extractor that can be _acquired_ from the TP." I'll fix it in the original.

[Solomko.3798]

I like GuildWars. So MUCH changes, I have stoped to play last year (spring), and now it's like a new game for me :)

[SabreWolf.4537]

I'm a new player (level 50) and I don't have any Salvage-o-matics yet. The copper is 800 gems and the runecrafters is 600 gem.. which one should I get? I don't really understand this whole salvage thing yet.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"SabreWolf.4537" said:

> I'm a new player (level 50) and I don't have any Salvage-o-matics yet. The copper is 800 gems and the runecrafters is 600 gem.. which one should I get? I don't really understand this whole salvage thing yet.

 

Depending on the rarity of an item, you'll want to use a better salvage kit. For example, using an expensive rare salvage kit on a blue item wouldn't be very interesting, because the materials that you'll get from this item won't be great anyway. You'll get more overall value by using a cheap salvage kit and getting a little bit fewer materials. If your item is rare, it then becomes interesting to use an expensive salvage kit, in order to extract every bit of rare (and valuable) material that this item has to offer.

 

My personnal solution is to use the silver-fed salvage-o-matic on every rare or exotic item (though it is important to note that I never had to actually use it on an exotic item, since I loot fewer exotic items than I loot Black Lion salvage kits, which I find are better for them because they have a higher chance of extracting upgrades), and to use the copper-fed salvage-o-matic on every other item. Note that ascended items can't be salvaged by any of these and require a specific ascended salvage kit, which can be obtained via a NPC in the Fractals of the Mists hub, which itself is accessible through the central portal, south of Lion's Arch.

 

You should also know that the silver and copper fed salvage-o-matics have the exact same salvage chances as their equivalents sold by almost any merchant in the game. The only appeal of purchasing these items is for the convenience of never having to worry about buying new limitted-use salvage kits to the merchant. The Runecrafter's samvage-o-matic is a different case, but I think it's only really useful if you intend to specificly craft runes, though I don't know of any consensus on that.

 

Finally, I'll allow myself to tell you that this question should probably have been posted as a new topic, since this thread is not really about that and is 3 months old... ;)

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

>

> Finally, I'll allow myself to tell you that this question should probably have been posted as a new topic, since this thread is not really about that and is 3 months old... ;)

 

It was its own topic, forum mods (apparently) merged it.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> >

> > Finally, I'll allow myself to tell you that this question should probably have been posted as a new topic, since this thread is not really about that and is 3 months old... ;)

>

> It was its own topic, forum mods (apparently) merged it.

 

Oh? That's weird. Okay then, nevermind ^^

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"SabreWolf.4537" said:

> I'm a new player (level 50) and I don't have any Salvage-o-matics yet. The copper is 800 gems and the runecrafters is 600 gem.. which one should I get? I don't really understand this whole salvage thing yet.

 

I'd advise not worrying about it right now. Once you've put in a few dozen hours, you'll get a sense of the sort of things you like and dislike doing in the game. Right now, it's viable to collect the unID gear over time (from L80 characters) and sell it all, without worrying about salvaging. For under L80, you can make do with salvage kits from vendors.

 

Later, there are numerous guides out there for extracting the most coin possible from drops, if you decide that's a good way to spend your time.