MUDse.7623 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > Assassin signet is not the problem,permastealth is. Stop trying to blame other mechanics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^this... > > > > > > > > > Blaming Assassins signet is like when people complained about torch for mirage. > > > > > > > > > It wont fix the real issue, and instead nerfs every other build but the one that is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can all agree stealth on dodge might be a little over bearing given that fact you can MalBS for 20k+ on an opener. repeatedly. > > > > > > > > > So fix the stealth issue, and no other build needs to be caught in the crossfire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aside from the fact that out there are daredevils doing the exact same because of that signet. > > > > > > > > sure you can do something about stealth on dodge, but if you want to gank like in that video people will still do it. if needed as daredevil that also will use endurance to stealth and in a group they might even do it as core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure DD can do the same thing in one burst. DD couldn't immediately re-enter stealth and gank a second or third person. The gank of thief hasn't changed, and wasn't a huge problem until DE came out. > > > > > > > So lets address the issue that arouse from PoF > > > > > > > Not nerf everything around PoF and hope it fixes the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > what prevents that DD from entering stealth? that 3s reveal? > > > > > > > > > > After a backstab? > > > > > Yes- The fact that DD doesn't have Shadow Meld to re-enter stealth immediately after a gank. > > > > > So if you BS a person with DD you have a window where you can be targeted, CC'd, or further revealed. > > > > > DE doesn't truly have that window. > > > > > Interesting thing as well like I said. The complaints for DD backstab was not nearly as bad as DE. > > > > > So why do you think that is? > > > > > > > > > > Also last I played DD, you have to build full glass to achieve this damage, and you had little to no room for error. > > > > > Unlike DE , you didn't have the luxury of taking the SA line for perma stealth shinanigans AND high damage > > > > > Has that changed all of a sudden? > > > > > And what build? > > > > > And why aren't people running that instead? > > > > > > > > > > Edit: and please note I said Immediately after- > > > > > As in MalBS to Meld. > > > > > You don't have a 3second window or any window with DE before they re-enter stealth because they can take the revealed debuff and completely ignore it if they choose too. > > > > > > > > so its shadowmeld causing the difference? > > > > > > > That is a really good question, I think Shadow Meld is part of the problem. I would love to test a theory I have that MalBS may be adding more damage values than what it is supposed to, as in it's getting an extra 10% when it shouldn't, but I would have to test that. > > the first adds more because of the minor trait. so basically you get dmg for marking as such and damage specifically on that MalBS. > > > > assassins signet just got changed shortly before PoF, since then any thief can do such high bursts thats why there havent been more complains before as assassins signet was different. > > > The CD got changed yes, the value of what it buffs did not. So while the frequency of the damage increased. It did not changed the value IIRC. > > it changed the value. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Signet/history > > look at what it was before august 2017 > > > > but my point was just that such instant kills like in the video are not deadeye exclusive and you wont change anything about them if you only change DE stealth access. but ofc you can change deadeye stealth access, that wont change one bit about those complains tho. > > > > > > I think people are more upset that they lose the window to attack. Again, The complaints were their for thief. I wont disagree with that. DE however has magnified it. > > > > that is indeed also a complaint, but a different one than we can see in the above video. > > > > also the 2nd one attacking the necro didnt even take half the necros life while building malice to m7, then the other finished it with several more shots that you can hear. > > > > Hmmm you're right about the signet. I thought when they changed it from % based to straight power that was a nerf to the signets overall damage potential. was a huge buff as 540 power is usually more than 15% and 5s dealing more damage on every hit is obviously better than just doing it on 5 hits. a daredevil really does compareable damage to the 0/1 malice backstabs of a deadeye, if you just replace deadeye line with daredevil. i mean deadeye backstabs are very strong but i would rather complain about the build up backstabs than the initial ones as malice only decays when mark runs out or a backstab lands. so you can build it up and then come with a much greater hit any time you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Assassin signet is not the problem,permastealth is. Stop trying to blame other mechanics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^this... > > > > > > > > > > Blaming Assassins signet is like when people complained about torch for mirage. > > > > > > > > > > It wont fix the real issue, and instead nerfs every other build but the one that is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can all agree stealth on dodge might be a little over bearing given that fact you can MalBS for 20k+ on an opener. repeatedly. > > > > > > > > > > So fix the stealth issue, and no other build needs to be caught in the crossfire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aside from the fact that out there are daredevils doing the exact same because of that signet. > > > > > > > > > sure you can do something about stealth on dodge, but if you want to gank like in that video people will still do it. if needed as daredevil that also will use endurance to stealth and in a group they might even do it as core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure DD can do the same thing in one burst. DD couldn't immediately re-enter stealth and gank a second or third person. The gank of thief hasn't changed, and wasn't a huge problem until DE came out. > > > > > > > > So lets address the issue that arouse from PoF > > > > > > > > Not nerf everything around PoF and hope it fixes the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what prevents that DD from entering stealth? that 3s reveal? > > > > > > > > > > > > After a backstab? > > > > > > Yes- The fact that DD doesn't have Shadow Meld to re-enter stealth immediately after a gank. > > > > > > So if you BS a person with DD you have a window where you can be targeted, CC'd, or further revealed. > > > > > > DE doesn't truly have that window. > > > > > > Interesting thing as well like I said. The complaints for DD backstab was not nearly as bad as DE. > > > > > > So why do you think that is? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also last I played DD, you have to build full glass to achieve this damage, and you had little to no room for error. > > > > > > Unlike DE , you didn't have the luxury of taking the SA line for perma stealth shinanigans AND high damage > > > > > > Has that changed all of a sudden? > > > > > > And what build? > > > > > > And why aren't people running that instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: and please note I said Immediately after- > > > > > > As in MalBS to Meld. > > > > > > You don't have a 3second window or any window with DE before they re-enter stealth because they can take the revealed debuff and completely ignore it if they choose too. > > > > > > > > > > so its shadowmeld causing the difference? > > > > > > > > > That is a really good question, I think Shadow Meld is part of the problem. I would love to test a theory I have that MalBS may be adding more damage values than what it is supposed to, as in it's getting an extra 10% when it shouldn't, but I would have to test that. > > > the first adds more because of the minor trait. so basically you get dmg for marking as such and damage specifically on that MalBS. > > > > > assassins signet just got changed shortly before PoF, since then any thief can do such high bursts thats why there havent been more complains before as assassins signet was different. > > > > The CD got changed yes, the value of what it buffs did not. So while the frequency of the damage increased. It did not changed the value IIRC. > > > it changed the value. > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Signet/history > > > look at what it was before august 2017 > > > > > but my point was just that such instant kills like in the video are not deadeye exclusive and you wont change anything about them if you only change DE stealth access. but ofc you can change deadeye stealth access, that wont change one bit about those complains tho. > > > > > > > > I think people are more upset that they lose the window to attack. Again, The complaints were their for thief. I wont disagree with that. DE however has magnified it. > > > > > > that is indeed also a complaint, but a different one than we can see in the above video. > > > > > > also the 2nd one attacking the necro didnt even take half the necros life while building malice to m7, then the other finished it with several more shots that you can hear. > > > > > > > Hmmm you're right about the signet. I thought when they changed it from % based to straight power that was a nerf to the signets overall damage potential. > > was a huge buff as 540 power is usually more than 15% and 5s dealing more damage on every hit is obviously better than just doing it on 5 hits. > a daredevil really does compareable damage to the 0/1 malice backstabs of a deadeye, if you just replace deadeye line with daredevil. > i mean deadeye backstabs are very strong but i would rather complain about the build up backstabs than the initial ones as malice only decays when mark runs out or a backstab lands. so you can build it up and then come with a much greater hit any time you want. I run Assassin signet/agility signet all the time when using DD and I can tell u that popping it and doing all attacks save for backstab do not come close to one shorting,sword still barely chips away at the opponents hp and bound/vault spam takes a lot of spams to down someone solely by themselves. If the opponent stands there and takes it there either new or afk lol. Ass signet isn’t some super signet like ur trying to make it out to be. U nerf the signet and all the thief attack damages are nurfed not just backstab. Stealth back stab nurf would be suitable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle of Stars.3049 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > I run Assassin signet/agility signet all the time when using DD and I can tell u that popping it and doing all attacks save for backstab do not come close to one shorting,sword still barely chips away at the opponents hp and bound/vault spam takes a lot of spams to down someone solely by themselves. If the opponent stands there and takes it there either new or afk lol. kitten signet isn’t some super signet like ur trying to make it out to be. U nerf the signet and all the thief attack damages are nurfed not just backstab. Stealth back stab nurf would be suitable Are you referring to an actual backstab nerf? Because that will hurt DD d/p more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I would rather not have to rely on backstab at all to achieve high burst if it’s at the cost of a assassin sig nurf because that effects all damage for every build running it and not just one type of attack. Ideally stealth access and burst on DE would be toned down without effecting core/dd at all bit assassin signet nurf isn’t that.stealth on kneel and reveal on movement woulda been a better stealth application for a sniper class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle of Stars.3049 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 No, stealth on kneel is difficult to implement for a class that relies on Stealth to strategically setup ambushes pre-emptively. Therefore, stealth on movement for this spec is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Umm no it’s not required,it’s required to melee ambush an opponent but as a sniper spec which I’m assuming a deadeye would be is a ranged ambush with a sniper rifle lol which is what snipers do, core/dd can melee ambush using tele’s just fine. If DE had a suitable amount of stealth on kneel needed to line up shots it would mean the sniper would have to be tactical in its position, high traffic spots and or patient for right opportunity to shoot, would also have to be mindful of getting to the location where ur gonna set up shop. This would justify high range one shots especially if there’s a short time window for counter. That’s a sniper class. What I see in this thread is people wanting to nurf aspects often times more than one that no ones complains about that may make a perma stealth thief a bit less effective thus not actually dealing with the very mechanics that are bringing the crazy amounts of complaints which is the DE access to perma stealth. Instead DE players are throwing out any suggestions that would effect them marginally but gutt the core/dd specs even more all so their precious perma stealth doesn’t get touched. U kno it’s a prob when vet thief players are even hating on the de spec and it’s not because of mechanics we had before lol yea they could stealth but not nearly to degree of DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Assassin signet is not the problem,permastealth is. Stop trying to blame other mechanics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^this... > > > > > > > > > > > Blaming Assassins signet is like when people complained about torch for mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > It wont fix the real issue, and instead nerfs every other build but the one that is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can all agree stealth on dodge might be a little over bearing given that fact you can MalBS for 20k+ on an opener. repeatedly. > > > > > > > > > > > So fix the stealth issue, and no other build needs to be caught in the crossfire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aside from the fact that out there are daredevils doing the exact same because of that signet. > > > > > > > > > > sure you can do something about stealth on dodge, but if you want to gank like in that video people will still do it. if needed as daredevil that also will use endurance to stealth and in a group they might even do it as core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure DD can do the same thing in one burst. DD couldn't immediately re-enter stealth and gank a second or third person. The gank of thief hasn't changed, and wasn't a huge problem until DE came out. > > > > > > > > > So lets address the issue that arouse from PoF > > > > > > > > > Not nerf everything around PoF and hope it fixes the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what prevents that DD from entering stealth? that 3s reveal? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After a backstab? > > > > > > > Yes- The fact that DD doesn't have Shadow Meld to re-enter stealth immediately after a gank. > > > > > > > So if you BS a person with DD you have a window where you can be targeted, CC'd, or further revealed. > > > > > > > DE doesn't truly have that window. > > > > > > > Interesting thing as well like I said. The complaints for DD backstab was not nearly as bad as DE. > > > > > > > So why do you think that is? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also last I played DD, you have to build full glass to achieve this damage, and you had little to no room for error. > > > > > > > Unlike DE , you didn't have the luxury of taking the SA line for perma stealth shinanigans AND high damage > > > > > > > Has that changed all of a sudden? > > > > > > > And what build? > > > > > > > And why aren't people running that instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: and please note I said Immediately after- > > > > > > > As in MalBS to Meld. > > > > > > > You don't have a 3second window or any window with DE before they re-enter stealth because they can take the revealed debuff and completely ignore it if they choose too. > > > > > > > > > > > > so its shadowmeld causing the difference? > > > > > > > > > > > That is a really good question, I think Shadow Meld is part of the problem. I would love to test a theory I have that MalBS may be adding more damage values than what it is supposed to, as in it's getting an extra 10% when it shouldn't, but I would have to test that. > > > > the first adds more because of the minor trait. so basically you get dmg for marking as such and damage specifically on that MalBS. > > > > > > assassins signet just got changed shortly before PoF, since then any thief can do such high bursts thats why there havent been more complains before as assassins signet was different. > > > > > The CD got changed yes, the value of what it buffs did not. So while the frequency of the damage increased. It did not changed the value IIRC. > > > > it changed the value. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Signet/history > > > > look at what it was before august 2017 > > > > > > but my point was just that such instant kills like in the video are not deadeye exclusive and you wont change anything about them if you only change DE stealth access. but ofc you can change deadeye stealth access, that wont change one bit about those complains tho. > > > > > > > > > > I think people are more upset that they lose the window to attack. Again, The complaints were their for thief. I wont disagree with that. DE however has magnified it. > > > > > > > > that is indeed also a complaint, but a different one than we can see in the above video. > > > > > > > > also the 2nd one attacking the necro didnt even take half the necros life while building malice to m7, then the other finished it with several more shots that you can hear. > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm you're right about the signet. I thought when they changed it from % based to straight power that was a nerf to the signets overall damage potential. > > > > was a huge buff as 540 power is usually more than 15% and 5s dealing more damage on every hit is obviously better than just doing it on 5 hits. > > a daredevil really does compareable damage to the 0/1 malice backstabs of a deadeye, if you just replace deadeye line with daredevil. > > i mean deadeye backstabs are very strong but i would rather complain about the build up backstabs than the initial ones as malice only decays when mark runs out or a backstab lands. so you can build it up and then come with a much greater hit any time you want. > > I run Assassin signet/agility signet all the time when using DD and I can tell u that popping it and doing all attacks save for backstab do not come close to one shorting,sword still barely chips away at the opponents hp and bound/vault spam takes a lot of spams to down someone solely by themselves. If the opponent stands there and takes it there either new or afk lol. kitten signet isn’t some super signet like ur trying to make it out to be. U nerf the signet and all the thief attack damages are nurfed not just backstab. Stealth back stab nurf would be suitable do you really think core/DD would be less affected by a backstab nerf than an assassins signet nerf? ok.. i dont mind, if you prefer that. but i am certain a very huge chunk of the thief community will disagree here. also there is an option to CHANGE it. meaning give it another active effect not just: more damage. it doesnt have to be an overall nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle of Stars.3049 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Umm no it’s not required,it’s required to melee ambush an opponent but as a sniper spec which I’m assuming a deadeye would be is a ranged ambush with a sniper rifle lol which is what snipers do, core/dd can melee ambush using tele’s just fine. If DE had a suitable amount of stealth on kneel needed to line up shots it would mean the sniper would have to be tactical in its position, high traffic spots and or patient for right opportunity to shoot, would also have to be mindful of getting to the location where ur gonna set up shop. This would justify high range one shots especially if there’s a short time window for counter. That’s a sniper class. What I see in this thread is people wanting to nurf aspects often times more than one that no ones complains about that may make a perma stealth thief a bit less effective thus not actually dealing with the very mechanics that are bringing the crazy amounts of complaints which is the DE access to perma stealth. Instead DE players are throwing out any suggestions that would effect them marginally but gutt the core/dd specs even more all so their precious perma stealth doesn’t get touched. U kno it’s a prob when vet thief players are even hating on the de spec and it’s not because of mechanics we had before lol yea they could stealth but not nearly to degree of DE It is. As much as I hate DEs myself I disagree on this one. There are lots of instances where you need to change your positioning in relation to your target and goals. In sPvP setting, everyone is required to move especially that contested nodes change from time to time. Moreover, you can't move revealed, then kneel for a stealth shot. That DE might have stealthed but his opponent still knows that they're there. You're accusing DE players throwing out suggestions with minimal loss on their side but a major loss on core/dd specs, yet you yourself wanted a backstab nerf? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 If I were dev for a day, I would remove stealth from dodge on the trait and replace the additional stealth by making Death's Retreat (rifle 4, standing) a skill that grants stealth while increasing ini cost to 5 (on par with CnD). I would also change Sniper's Cover (rifle 4, kneeling) to 5 ini in PvP and 3 ini in PvE and have it grant stealth. At least this way, stealth spamming would limit damage to some degree. It would still be fair to Deadeyes since Death's Retreat evades and Sniper's Cover is only a 1/4 cast time (shorter than CnD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 There is never a need that a character needs to change its position while being completely invisible to other players,that in itself will never be ok from a balance stand point and as long as a class has stealth access for any appreciable amount of time especially when only being unsteathed when it decides to be for the most part will just result in said class being gutted in every other aspect in attempts to make it balanced,which won’t happen until the day perma stealth is addressed. DE can move around map with good a mobility as most classes still unstealthed,once fight is reset they can chose another location, the whole needing to relocate while totally un noticed is a bs mechanic. This would make it so if a DE fails it’s initi burst it can’t just stealth and try again cuz being able to like it can now is ridiculous in a pvp mode. This would force DE to use skill to fight if burst from range failed to promote a healthy playstyle or I’d have to run away using its other mobility methods,shodowstep or imp arrow to escape and tactically be patient and relocate for another go at another victim lol. Every other pvp game that has an invisibility skill has heavy cost,either running disabled,short duration or is blended into background when still but noticeable when movement is active Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Umm no it’s not required,it’s required to melee ambush an opponent but as a sniper spec which I’m assuming a deadeye would be is a ranged ambush with a sniper rifle lol which is what snipers do, core/dd can melee ambush using tele’s just fine. If DE had a suitable amount of stealth on kneel needed to line up shots it would mean the sniper would have to be tactical in its position, high traffic spots and or patient for right opportunity to shoot, would also have to be mindful of getting to the location where ur gonna set up shop. This would justify high range one shots especially if there’s a short time window for counter. That’s a sniper class. What I see in this thread is people wanting to nurf aspects often times more than one that no ones complains about that may make a perma stealth thief a bit less effective thus not actually dealing with the very mechanics that are bringing the crazy amounts of complaints which is the DE access to perma stealth. Instead DE players are throwing out any suggestions that would effect them marginally but gutt the core/dd specs even more all so their precious perma stealth doesn’t get touched. U kno it’s a prob when vet thief players are even hating on the de spec and it’s not because of mechanics we had before lol yea they could stealth but not nearly to degree of DE > > It is. As much as I hate DEs myself I disagree on this one. There are lots of instances where you need to change your positioning in relation to your target and goals. In sPvP setting, everyone is required to move especially that contested nodes change from time to time. Moreover, you can't move revealed, then kneel for a stealth shot. That DE might have stealthed but his opponent still knows that they're there. > > You're accusing DE players throwing out suggestions with minimal loss on their side but a major loss on core/dd specs, yet you yourself wanted a backstab nerf? What? No I do not want a backstab nurf,I said I’d rather it than nurfing assassin signet. I would wages that would be a bigger nurf than backstab as a whole. I said ideally neither be nurfed and that perma stealth nurf would be the best route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle of Stars.3049 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said: > > It is. As much as I hate DEs myself I disagree on this one. There are lots of instances where you need to change your positioning in relation to your target and goals. In sPvP setting, everyone is required to move especially that contested nodes change from time to time. Moreover, you can't move revealed, then kneel for a stealth shot. That DE might have stealthed but his opponent still knows that they're there. > > > > You're accusing DE players throwing out suggestions with minimal loss on their side but a major loss on core/dd specs, yet you yourself wanted a backstab nerf? What? > No I do not want a backstab nurf,I said I’d rather it than nursing assassin signet. I would wages that would be a bigger nurf than backstab as a whole. I said ideally neither be nurfed and that perma stealth nurf would be the best route > Oh, alright I misunderstood you on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Obviously no thief player wants any further back stab nurfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > It would still be fair to Deadeyes since Death's Retreat evades uhm i dont evade during death's retreat. but i think i would be fine with your suggestions as i run with m7, this would probably overall turn to a slight buff :3 (because its faster and DR opens a wider gap than dodge, having my dodges only to dodge also means i can stay longer visible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assassin signet is not the problem,permastealth is. Stop trying to blame other mechanics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^this... > > > > > > > > > > > > Blaming Assassins signet is like when people complained about torch for mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > It wont fix the real issue, and instead nerfs every other build but the one that is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can all agree stealth on dodge might be a little over bearing given that fact you can MalBS for 20k+ on an opener. repeatedly. > > > > > > > > > > > > So fix the stealth issue, and no other build needs to be caught in the crossfire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aside from the fact that out there are daredevils doing the exact same because of that signet. > > > > > > > > > > > sure you can do something about stealth on dodge, but if you want to gank like in that video people will still do it. if needed as daredevil that also will use endurance to stealth and in a group they might even do it as core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure DD can do the same thing in one burst. DD couldn't immediately re-enter stealth and gank a second or third person. The gank of thief hasn't changed, and wasn't a huge problem until DE came out. > > > > > > > > > > So lets address the issue that arouse from PoF > > > > > > > > > > Not nerf everything around PoF and hope it fixes the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what prevents that DD from entering stealth? that 3s reveal? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After a backstab? > > > > > > > > Yes- The fact that DD doesn't have Shadow Meld to re-enter stealth immediately after a gank. > > > > > > > > So if you BS a person with DD you have a window where you can be targeted, CC'd, or further revealed. > > > > > > > > DE doesn't truly have that window. > > > > > > > > Interesting thing as well like I said. The complaints for DD backstab was not nearly as bad as DE. > > > > > > > > So why do you think that is? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also last I played DD, you have to build full glass to achieve this damage, and you had little to no room for error. > > > > > > > > Unlike DE , you didn't have the luxury of taking the SA line for perma stealth shinanigans AND high damage > > > > > > > > Has that changed all of a sudden? > > > > > > > > And what build? > > > > > > > > And why aren't people running that instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: and please note I said Immediately after- > > > > > > > > As in MalBS to Meld. > > > > > > > > You don't have a 3second window or any window with DE before they re-enter stealth because they can take the revealed debuff and completely ignore it if they choose too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so its shadowmeld causing the difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a really good question, I think Shadow Meld is part of the problem. I would love to test a theory I have that MalBS may be adding more damage values than what it is supposed to, as in it's getting an extra 10% when it shouldn't, but I would have to test that. > > > > > the first adds more because of the minor trait. so basically you get dmg for marking as such and damage specifically on that MalBS. > > > > > > > assassins signet just got changed shortly before PoF, since then any thief can do such high bursts thats why there havent been more complains before as assassins signet was different. > > > > > > The CD got changed yes, the value of what it buffs did not. So while the frequency of the damage increased. It did not changed the value IIRC. > > > > > it changed the value. > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Signet/history > > > > > look at what it was before august 2017 > > > > > > > but my point was just that such instant kills like in the video are not deadeye exclusive and you wont change anything about them if you only change DE stealth access. but ofc you can change deadeye stealth access, that wont change one bit about those complains tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are more upset that they lose the window to attack. Again, The complaints were their for thief. I wont disagree with that. DE however has magnified it. > > > > > > > > > > that is indeed also a complaint, but a different one than we can see in the above video. > > > > > > > > > > also the 2nd one attacking the necro didnt even take half the necros life while building malice to m7, then the other finished it with several more shots that you can hear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm you're right about the signet. I thought when they changed it from % based to straight power that was a nerf to the signets overall damage potential. > > > > > > was a huge buff as 540 power is usually more than 15% and 5s dealing more damage on every hit is obviously better than just doing it on 5 hits. > > > a daredevil really does compareable damage to the 0/1 malice backstabs of a deadeye, if you just replace deadeye line with daredevil. > > > i mean deadeye backstabs are very strong but i would rather complain about the build up backstabs than the initial ones as malice only decays when mark runs out or a backstab lands. so you can build it up and then come with a much greater hit any time you want. > > > > I run Assassin signet/agility signet all the time when using DD and I can tell u that popping it and doing all attacks save for backstab do not come close to one shorting,sword still barely chips away at the opponents hp and bound/vault spam takes a lot of spams to down someone solely by themselves. If the opponent stands there and takes it there either new or afk lol. kitten signet isn’t some super signet like ur trying to make it out to be. U nerf the signet and all the thief attack damages are nurfed not just backstab. Stealth back stab nurf would be suitable > > do you really think core/DD would be less affected by a backstab nerf than an assassins signet nerf? ok.. i dont mind, if you prefer that. but i am certain a very huge chunk of the thief community will disagree here. > also there is an option to CHANGE it. meaning give it another active effect not just: more damage. it doesnt have to be an overall nerf. Any damage loss will hurt core/DD so any change that reduces damage of assassin damage boost would be a huge loss. Core especially is already lost too much damage,u think thief core players and DD would be ok losing more so u can keep ur perma stealth,yeah lol. There are already so many complaints about core/DD damage nurfs and u think losing more damage and gaining what? More utility is better?core already hits like shit these days lol name any s/d players that think they do tonnes of damage compared to their hp/sustain. Dagger damage was reduced also. Why not nurf everything but perma stealth and backstab so DE is the only viable spec with only 2 cheesy options of attack lol that be fun. And I’m sure there’s a lot of players that don’t rely on backstab, I mained thief for2.5 yrs and rarely set out to Preform them as part of a regular playstyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assassin signet is not the problem,permastealth is. Stop trying to blame other mechanics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blaming Assassins signet is like when people complained about torch for mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wont fix the real issue, and instead nerfs every other build but the one that is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can all agree stealth on dodge might be a little over bearing given that fact you can MalBS for 20k+ on an opener. repeatedly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So fix the stealth issue, and no other build needs to be caught in the crossfire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aside from the fact that out there are daredevils doing the exact same because of that signet. > > > > > > > > > > > > sure you can do something about stealth on dodge, but if you want to gank like in that video people will still do it. if needed as daredevil that also will use endurance to stealth and in a group they might even do it as core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure DD can do the same thing in one burst. DD couldn't immediately re-enter stealth and gank a second or third person. The gank of thief hasn't changed, and wasn't a huge problem until DE came out. > > > > > > > > > > > So lets address the issue that arouse from PoF > > > > > > > > > > > Not nerf everything around PoF and hope it fixes the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what prevents that DD from entering stealth? that 3s reveal? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After a backstab? > > > > > > > > > Yes- The fact that DD doesn't have Shadow Meld to re-enter stealth immediately after a gank. > > > > > > > > > So if you BS a person with DD you have a window where you can be targeted, CC'd, or further revealed. > > > > > > > > > DE doesn't truly have that window. > > > > > > > > > Interesting thing as well like I said. The complaints for DD backstab was not nearly as bad as DE. > > > > > > > > > So why do you think that is? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also last I played DD, you have to build full glass to achieve this damage, and you had little to no room for error. > > > > > > > > > Unlike DE , you didn't have the luxury of taking the SA line for perma stealth shinanigans AND high damage > > > > > > > > > Has that changed all of a sudden? > > > > > > > > > And what build? > > > > > > > > > And why aren't people running that instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: and please note I said Immediately after- > > > > > > > > > As in MalBS to Meld. > > > > > > > > > You don't have a 3second window or any window with DE before they re-enter stealth because they can take the revealed debuff and completely ignore it if they choose too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so its shadowmeld causing the difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a really good question, I think Shadow Meld is part of the problem. I would love to test a theory I have that MalBS may be adding more damage values than what it is supposed to, as in it's getting an extra 10% when it shouldn't, but I would have to test that. > > > > > > the first adds more because of the minor trait. so basically you get dmg for marking as such and damage specifically on that MalBS. > > > > > > > > assassins signet just got changed shortly before PoF, since then any thief can do such high bursts thats why there havent been more complains before as assassins signet was different. > > > > > > > The CD got changed yes, the value of what it buffs did not. So while the frequency of the damage increased. It did not changed the value IIRC. > > > > > > it changed the value. > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Signet/history > > > > > > look at what it was before august 2017 > > > > > > > > but my point was just that such instant kills like in the video are not deadeye exclusive and you wont change anything about them if you only change DE stealth access. but ofc you can change deadeye stealth access, that wont change one bit about those complains tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are more upset that they lose the window to attack. Again, The complaints were their for thief. I wont disagree with that. DE however has magnified it. > > > > > > > > > > > > that is indeed also a complaint, but a different one than we can see in the above video. > > > > > > > > > > > > also the 2nd one attacking the necro didnt even take half the necros life while building malice to m7, then the other finished it with several more shots that you can hear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm you're right about the signet. I thought when they changed it from % based to straight power that was a nerf to the signets overall damage potential. > > > > > > > > was a huge buff as 540 power is usually more than 15% and 5s dealing more damage on every hit is obviously better than just doing it on 5 hits. > > > > a daredevil really does compareable damage to the 0/1 malice backstabs of a deadeye, if you just replace deadeye line with daredevil. > > > > i mean deadeye backstabs are very strong but i would rather complain about the build up backstabs than the initial ones as malice only decays when mark runs out or a backstab lands. so you can build it up and then come with a much greater hit any time you want. > > > > > > I run Assassin signet/agility signet all the time when using DD and I can tell u that popping it and doing all attacks save for backstab do not come close to one shorting,sword still barely chips away at the opponents hp and bound/vault spam takes a lot of spams to down someone solely by themselves. If the opponent stands there and takes it there either new or afk lol. kitten signet isn’t some super signet like ur trying to make it out to be. U nerf the signet and all the thief attack damages are nurfed not just backstab. Stealth back stab nurf would be suitable > > > > do you really think core/DD would be less affected by a backstab nerf than an assassins signet nerf? ok.. i dont mind, if you prefer that. but i am certain a very huge chunk of the thief community will disagree here. > > also there is an option to CHANGE it. meaning give it another active effect not just: more damage. it doesnt have to be an overall nerf. > Any damage loss will hurt core/DD so any change that reduces damage of assassin damage boost would be a huge loss. Core especially is already lost too much damage,u think thief core players and DD would be ok losing more so u can keep ur perma stealth,yeah lol. There are already so many complaints about core/DD damage nurfs and u think losing more damage and gaining what? More utility is better?core already hits like kitten these days lol name any s/d players that think they do tonnes of damage compared to their hp/sustain. Dagger damage was reduced also. Why not nurf everything but perma stealth and backstab so DE is the only viable spec with only 2 cheesy options of attack lol that be fun. And I’m sure there’s a lot of players that don’t rely on backstab, I mained thief for2.5 yrs and rarely set out to Preform them as part of a regular playstyle > you dont understand a bit, do you? first of all i was running with power and permastealth before PoF as daredevil aswell, so yeah if you cut DE too much i might switch to DD to play with stealth again i dont mind. second. the topic of this thread is the oneshot out of nowhere. i barely said that this is not DE exclusive and a DD is easily able to do the same. i am not asking for anything. i am just pointing out that if you want to get rid of such backstabs, you need to change something about the core thief, just changing something on DE wont fix that problem. i know you would rather want to see DE nerfed than DD. but thats completly irrelevant right now. either you are oke with such backstabs or not. if your not oke with them -> change core thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I don’t play thief much these days anyway lol but Iya a great game,a lot of great qualities and want the population to stay healthy and active and for it to continue to do well. Because I like thief so much and played it for some time it will just be unfortunate for a class to be ruined in the end due to a new spec that takes a mechanic too far being added to the game. As long as perma stealth is around it will always be a problem not just for thief,as seen by many salty player post lol. But if arenanet and a small portion of the community think perm stealth is something that’s required than really who the hell am I to argue lol I’m nobody so matters little lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Haha yea I remember all those perma stealth DD threads, oh wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 The fact that I’m going back in forth with someone about whether being permanently invisible in a pvp mode is a ok mechanic and whether it’s needed and or healthy for said game mode tells me this is a waste lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > It would still be fair to Deadeyes since Death's Retreat evades > > uhm i dont evade during death's retreat. > but i think i would be fine with your suggestions as i run with m7, this would probably overall turn to a slight buff :3 (because its faster and DR opens a wider gap than dodge, having my dodges only to dodge also means i can stay longer visible) > D'oh, you're right. Shows how much I play rifle. I'm fine with Deadeye getting a buff, so long as it's tied to mechanics that reward good gameplay and punish mistakes. > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Haha yea I remember all those perma stealth DD threads, oh wait! Well, it's been about 5 years since the Yishis videos were big and D/D was considered a good choice for WvW, but D/P definitely seemed to be the target for most QQ threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said: > > > It would still be fair to Deadeyes since Death's Retreat evades > > > > uhm i dont evade during death's retreat. > > but i think i would be fine with your suggestions as i run with m7, this would probably overall turn to a slight buff :3 (because its faster and DR opens a wider gap than dodge, having my dodges only to dodge also means i can stay longer visible) > > > D'oh, you're right. Shows how much I play rifle. I'm fine with Deadeye getting a buff, so long as it's tied to mechanics that reward good gameplay and punish mistakes. > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Haha yea I remember all those perma stealth DD threads, oh wait! > Well, it's been about 5 years since the Yishis videos were big and D/D was considered a good choice for WvW, but D/P definitely seemed to be the target for most QQ threads. there was allways builds to complain about. dont forget condi evade or ghost :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"kash.9213" said: > How is it that the same group of people make a thread with multiple chopped up videos and nearly the same exact number of Thumbs Up each in a short amount of time yet they're the only ones agreeing with each other? I had a conversation with an Ele main a few weeks ago. Apparently you can make a lot of free accounts for social validation. As was demonstrated by said ele in the aforementioned thread. Edit: I am NOT saying that was done in this thread. Just that it is something that can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethanzephyr.7298 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I know it sucks to get bombed from stealth, but some of you are grossly over-reacting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"juno.1840" said: > So broken - it is one of the reasons why WvW is not as much fun as it use to be. > > This is just one of many toxic mechanics the game allows in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assassin signet is not the problem,permastealth is. Stop trying to blame other mechanics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blaming Assassins signet is like when people complained about torch for mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It wont fix the real issue, and instead nerfs every other build but the one that is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can all agree stealth on dodge might be a little over bearing given that fact you can MalBS for 20k+ on an opener. repeatedly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So fix the stealth issue, and no other build needs to be caught in the crossfire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aside from the fact that out there are daredevils doing the exact same because of that signet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure you can do something about stealth on dodge, but if you want to gank like in that video people will still do it. if needed as daredevil that also will use endurance to stealth and in a group they might even do it as core. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure DD can do the same thing in one burst. DD couldn't immediately re-enter stealth and gank a second or third person. The gank of thief hasn't changed, and wasn't a huge problem until DE came out. > > > > > > > > > > > > So lets address the issue that arouse from PoF > > > > > > > > > > > > Not nerf everything around PoF and hope it fixes the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what prevents that DD from entering stealth? that 3s reveal? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After a backstab? > > > > > > > > > > Yes- The fact that DD doesn't have Shadow Meld to re-enter stealth immediately after a gank. > > > > > > > > > > So if you BS a person with DD you have a window where you can be targeted, CC'd, or further revealed. > > > > > > > > > > DE doesn't truly have that window. > > > > > > > > > > Interesting thing as well like I said. The complaints for DD backstab was not nearly as bad as DE. > > > > > > > > > > So why do you think that is? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also last I played DD, you have to build full glass to achieve this damage, and you had little to no room for error. > > > > > > > > > > Unlike DE , you didn't have the luxury of taking the SA line for perma stealth shinanigans AND high damage > > > > > > > > > > Has that changed all of a sudden? > > > > > > > > > > And what build? > > > > > > > > > > And why aren't people running that instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: and please note I said Immediately after- > > > > > > > > > > As in MalBS to Meld. > > > > > > > > > > You don't have a 3second window or any window with DE before they re-enter stealth because they can take the revealed debuff and completely ignore it if they choose too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so its shadowmeld causing the difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a really good question, I think Shadow Meld is part of the problem. I would love to test a theory I have that MalBS may be adding more damage values than what it is supposed to, as in it's getting an extra 10% when it shouldn't, but I would have to test that. > > > > > > > the first adds more because of the minor trait. so basically you get dmg for marking as such and damage specifically on that MalBS. > > > > > > > > > assassins signet just got changed shortly before PoF, since then any thief can do such high bursts thats why there havent been more complains before as assassins signet was different. > > > > > > > > The CD got changed yes, the value of what it buffs did not. So while the frequency of the damage increased. It did not changed the value IIRC. > > > > > > > it changed the value. > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Signet/history > > > > > > > look at what it was before august 2017 > > > > > > > > > but my point was just that such instant kills like in the video are not deadeye exclusive and you wont change anything about them if you only change DE stealth access. but ofc you can change deadeye stealth access, that wont change one bit about those complains tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are more upset that they lose the window to attack. Again, The complaints were their for thief. I wont disagree with that. DE however has magnified it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is indeed also a complaint, but a different one than we can see in the above video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also the 2nd one attacking the necro didnt even take half the necros life while building malice to m7, then the other finished it with several more shots that you can hear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm you're right about the signet. I thought when they changed it from % based to straight power that was a nerf to the signets overall damage potential. > > > > > > > > > > was a huge buff as 540 power is usually more than 15% and 5s dealing more damage on every hit is obviously better than just doing it on 5 hits. > > > > > a daredevil really does compareable damage to the 0/1 malice backstabs of a deadeye, if you just replace deadeye line with daredevil. > > > > > i mean deadeye backstabs are very strong but i would rather complain about the build up backstabs than the initial ones as malice only decays when mark runs out or a backstab lands. so you can build it up and then come with a much greater hit any time you want. > > > > > > > > I run Assassin signet/agility signet all the time when using DD and I can tell u that popping it and doing all attacks save for backstab do not come close to one shorting,sword still barely chips away at the opponents hp and bound/vault spam takes a lot of spams to down someone solely by themselves. If the opponent stands there and takes it there either new or afk lol. kitten signet isn’t some super signet like ur trying to make it out to be. U nerf the signet and all the thief attack damages are nurfed not just backstab. Stealth back stab nurf would be suitable > > > > > > do you really think core/DD would be less affected by a backstab nerf than an assassins signet nerf? ok.. i dont mind, if you prefer that. but i am certain a very huge chunk of the thief community will disagree here. > > > also there is an option to CHANGE it. meaning give it another active effect not just: more damage. it doesnt have to be an overall nerf. > > Any damage loss will hurt core/DD so any change that reduces damage of assassin damage boost would be a huge loss. Core especially is already lost too much damage,u think thief core players and DD would be ok losing more so u can keep ur perma stealth,yeah lol. There are already so many complaints about core/DD damage nurfs and u think losing more damage and gaining what? More utility is better?core already hits like kitten these days lol name any s/d players that think they do tonnes of damage compared to their hp/sustain. Dagger damage was reduced also. Why not nurf everything but perma stealth and backstab so DE is the only viable spec with only 2 cheesy options of attack lol that be fun. And I’m sure there’s a lot of players that don’t rely on backstab, I mained thief for2.5 yrs and rarely set out to Preform them as part of a regular playstyle > > > > you dont understand a bit, do you? > first of all i was running with power and permastealth before PoF as daredevil aswell, so yeah if you cut DE too much i might switch to DD to play with stealth again i dont mind. > second. the topic of this thread is the oneshot out of nowhere. i barely said that this is not DE exclusive and a DD is easily able to do the same. i am not asking for anything. i am just pointing out that if you want to get rid of such backstabs, you need to change something about the core thief, just changing something on DE wont fix that problem. > i know you would rather want to see DE nerfed than DD. but thats completly irrelevant right now. either you are oke with such backstabs or not. if your not oke with them -> change core thief. I think u also don't understand. Problems with de are not only Backstab out of nowhere, but Backstab on steroids, and nuts stealth access by 1 button press, and shitty long periods of time it can stay in. Add dodge food to this equation and u will break any logic laws. Not sure if all of u guys defending DE are trolling or u rly think ur right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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