Ranked Queue has become a joke, thanks to Duo Queue

[Blocki.4931]

So do I get this right

 

People beg for duo to return after it was disabled as a test and now duo queue is what ruins the game

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> So do I get this right

no

 

there used to be a solo arena and team arena for ranked games a while after launch, solo arena was removed to consolidate the shrinking playerbase into a single queue and we were left with team arena which became ranked arena. people have been complaining about no proper solo queue ever since.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> So do I get this right

>

> People beg for duo to return after it was disabled as a test and now duo queue is what ruins the game

Pretty much. Different groups of people each time though. You have one side which wants to play with friends and another side who want to blame everything for their failure except themselves.

[canseemee.8645]

is it more stressful for 1 human to carry 4 monkeys or for 2 humans to carry 3 monkeys?

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> Pretty much. Different groups of people each time though. You have one side which wants to play with friends and another side who want to blame everything for their failure except themselves.

 

Nobody mentioned anything about failures or losses, only poor quality of games. DuoQ taints as many wins as it is responsible for losses. There's nothing fun about 500-100 point wipes brought on by pip farming, wintrading, or powerstacking DuoQs regardless of whether or not you win or lose. It's just really unhealthy for the game regardless.

 

As to wanting to play with friends... bit surprised people are still drawing that victim card on this thread when the OP directly encourages more ways for people to play together in both ATs and unranked. Even with all that, they don't mention anything about TeamQ which, if it ever comes back, is another way to play Ranked with friends. The only real problem is DuoQ Ranked. It's too easily exploited, and when in the rare case it's not being exploited; there isn't enough people playing ranked for the matchmaker to competently match them against similarly ranked players. There's still plenty of ways to play PvP with friends; even competitively, and especially if 2v2 and/or TeamQing come back.

 

 

 

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> So do I get this right

>

> People beg for duo to return after it was disabled as a test and now duo queue is what ruins the game

 

That's not right at all really. It was the same abuse from the first few seasons that we're seeing now that it's back, that got it stripped from the game to begin with, and it wasn't disabled as a test. Tests don't last well over a year. It was removed because people absolutely hated it. The population was low enough going into Season 13 that a vocal minority of the highest top% of gw2 players were able to push for DuoQ to be added back after years of trying because nobody really cared. People tend to forget DuoQ already existed since then for anyone below 1600 rating. Couple that lack of recollection with actual posts from Arenanet showcasing just how uncommon DuoQ's were in that time and it becomes really easy to see past the "I just want to play with friends" excuse. DuoQ really only works to the advantage of those highest rated players. They're the only reason it exists now and it's not the sole thing ruining Ranked sPvP, but it is a rather huge contributing factor.

[Lexani.6152]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> The decision was bad and I'm just making this short post to point at the highlights:

> 1. We can see what the leaderboard looks like. Same old, multi-account people right up the top. Forming duo with friends from teams etc to gain advantage.

> 2. Bad duos wreck games too. On numerous occasions we end up with pipp farmer duo friends who have no idea what to do.

> 3. General balance across games has been poor.

> 4. Queue times have not improved at all. In fact, worsened.

>

> Don't start your chest banging below if you're in top 250 and I'm not. I really don't care about what tier or division anyone is in. This is the same poor quality of games across all tiers.

>

> Please, re-consider and make ranked as Solo Queue exclusive! Let every player complete on their own.

> Improve the ATs (e.g. make them more frequent etc) for players who would like to play with friends.

>

> Based on the current state of unranked, I now prefer to learn a new class in Ranked itself. There's no point playing unranked anymore for any purpose other than reward track farming while chilling out with guildies. I'm seeing several other players doing the same. They're learning in Ranked. Duo queues will eventually turn ranked into what unranked is now. Save it!

>

 

Mate, you make no sense. Firstly, queueing with a friend or a random is a lottery, not skill. And you want to play lottery hopping that your opponent will get a newbie player, and yes, there are thousands of them getting gold rank just after placement games. There should be only team queues, I mean 5 people, in the end this is game for the teams.

 

Okay, even 2 people is better than just solo, and I was queueing solo for the last 3 seasons as a protest, I dropped many games I could win, or played them by watching a movie, because it became rng, not skill. Anyway, pvp is dead for a long time now and you only see same players on top just because nobody play it seriously anymore. Damn, I am just farming shards for pvp mistforged set. So solo q is just a very poor idea.

[Dahkeus.8243]

Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

 

P.s. I'd rather have duo queue available regardless of rank, but I also don't tie my ego to my PvP rank and love playing with friends.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

>

> P.s. I'd rather have duo queue available regardless of rank, but I also don't tie my ego to my PvP rank and love playing with friends.

It was all here.. even voted down in multiple threads. What are you talking about? It worked out as everyone expected: more imbalanced matches, more ppl who wouldnt even reach top250 carried to higher ranks. This was discussed and expected. Simply Anet decided to please the vocal minority.

[Dahkeus.8243]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

> >

> > P.s. I'd rather have duo queue available regardless of rank, but I also don't tie my ego to my PvP rank and love playing with friends.

> It was all here.. even voted down in multiple threads. What are you talking about? It worked out as everyone expected: more imbalanced matches, more ppl who wouldnt even reach top250 carried to higher ranks. This was discussed and expected. Simply Anet decided to please the vocal minority.

 

The question was rhetorical, but there's no clear measure of minority vs majority opinion in GW2 outside of who speaks up. People only speak up when there's something they don't like, so it's no surprise to see this community always chasing its tail, particularly since the PvP community is especially salty about everything and grateful for nothing.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

> > >

> > > P.s. I'd rather have duo queue available regardless of rank, but I also don't tie my ego to my PvP rank and love playing with friends.

> > It was all here.. even voted down in multiple threads. What are you talking about? It worked out as everyone expected: more imbalanced matches, more ppl who wouldnt even reach top250 carried to higher ranks. This was discussed and expected. Simply Anet decided to please the vocal minority.

>

> The question was rhetorical, but there's no clear measure of minority vs majority opinion in GW2 outside of who speaks up. People only speak up when there's something they don't like, so it's no surprise to see this community always chasing its tail, particularly since the PvP community is especially salty about everything and grateful for nothing.

 

What exactly should one be grateful for in regards to anything in sPvP? Honestly curious because as it stands...the current PvP population doesn't reflect *any* reason to have gratitude for anything in sPvP. ESL pulled out of GW2, 5 man premades were removed, Ranked is being abandoned for ATs and other tournament style systems, balance doesn't get better or worse it just stays in the same annoying place its been for months and months at a time, wintrading hasn't gone away *at all*, its all the same exact people with main and alt accounts at the top of the leaderboard on top of the sPvP community being so small that the top 250 means absolutely nothing now.

 

So I'll ask again, what exactly should people be grateful for?

[Sampson.2403]

I always find it interesting in these discussions how everyone assumes that if you duoQ you're automatically at an advantage. Unless you and your partner are top players, this just simply isn't true. The random teammates that are assigned by the match maker could easily be better than the person that you are quing with.

 

Also, i find it interesting how people automatically think that they're going to perform better just because they have a friend on the same team as them in a discord voice channel. If i que with you, what advantage are we getting by both being in discord? What information can you possibly give me that i dont already have through the UI?

 

Personally, someone talking to me about the game while I'm playing the game is super distracting and annoying. Effective ingame coordination takes practice and effort. Very few players are doing this, and the ones that are got there from playing together in tournaments etc and are at the top of the ladder.

 

Ill bet ya that Ben has the data to back up everything that I am saying.

 

Even though i always solo q ranked, i believe that the option should be there to que with as many players as you want simply for the social aspect of it. Also, for those that want to tryhard and develop effective communication with a group of players, they should have the option to do so. Playing with other people really is a core theme of any MMO.

[Dahkeus.8243]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > > Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

> > > >

> > > > P.s. I'd rather have duo queue available regardless of rank, but I also don't tie my ego to my PvP rank and love playing with friends.

> > > It was all here.. even voted down in multiple threads. What are you talking about? It worked out as everyone expected: more imbalanced matches, more ppl who wouldnt even reach top250 carried to higher ranks. This was discussed and expected. Simply Anet decided to please the vocal minority.

> >

> > The question was rhetorical, but there's no clear measure of minority vs majority opinion in GW2 outside of who speaks up. People only speak up when there's something they don't like, so it's no surprise to see this community always chasing its tail, particularly since the PvP community is especially salty about everything and grateful for nothing.

>

> What exactly should one be grateful for in regards to anything in sPvP? Honestly curious because as it stands...the current PvP population doesn't reflect *any* reason to have gratitude for anything in sPvP. ESL pulled out of GW2, 5 man premades were removed, Ranked is being abandoned for ATs and other tournament style systems, balance doesn't get better or worse it just stays in the same annoying place its been for months and months at a time, wintrading hasn't gone away *at all*, its all the same exact people with main and alt accounts at the top of the leaderboard on top of the sPvP community being so small that the top 250 means absolutely nothing now.

>

> So I'll ask again, what exactly should people be grateful for?

 

Nothing! It's all evil! Eeeeeevil! They nerfed mah class and kicked my puppy! We're only here playing GW2 PvP and talking about it on the forums because we're noble martyrs heralding it's failures so as to make sure no one else makes the mistake of trying this game!

 

/s

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > > > Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

> > > > >

> > > > > P.s. I'd rather have duo queue available regardless of rank, but I also don't tie my ego to my PvP rank and love playing with friends.

> > > > It was all here.. even voted down in multiple threads. What are you talking about? It worked out as everyone expected: more imbalanced matches, more ppl who wouldnt even reach top250 carried to higher ranks. This was discussed and expected. Simply Anet decided to please the vocal minority.

> > >

> > > The question was rhetorical, but there's no clear measure of minority vs majority opinion in GW2 outside of who speaks up. People only speak up when there's something they don't like, so it's no surprise to see this community always chasing its tail, particularly since the PvP community is especially salty about everything and grateful for nothing.

> >

> > What exactly should one be grateful for in regards to anything in sPvP? Honestly curious because as it stands...the current PvP population doesn't reflect *any* reason to have gratitude for anything in sPvP. ESL pulled out of GW2, 5 man premades were removed, Ranked is being abandoned for ATs and other tournament style systems, balance doesn't get better or worse it just stays in the same annoying place its been for months and months at a time, wintrading hasn't gone away *at all*, its all the same exact people with main and alt accounts at the top of the leaderboard on top of the sPvP community being so small that the top 250 means absolutely nothing now.

> >

> > So I'll ask again, what exactly should people be grateful for?

>

> Nothing! It's all evil! Eeeeeevil! They nerfed mah class and kicked my puppy! We're only here playing GW2 PvP and talking about it on the forums because we're noble martyrs heralding it's failures so as to make sure no one else makes the mistake of trying this game!

>

> /s

 

Not the implication I was making. I was legitimately asking the question, what can you actually list that we have to be grateful for in regards to PvP? Just that its there? Seriously.

 

There are good parts to the game, obviously because otherwise I would never play, I don't play games that I don't enjoy like how I stopped playing League of Legends because I hate League of Legends, I stopped playing WoW *years and years* ago (like back in WOTLK) because I didn't enjoy the game, I don't play PUBG or other BR games not because they are bad games (I actually enjoy FPS games and shooters in general) but I am bored of the whole BR setup.

 

The reason I say and ask these things is because I've played this game for years and I appreciate the dev teams time they've put in but at the same time I'm not going to refrain from criticizing what is lacking and the current state of the game because I want things to improve and it honestly triggers me when this team whose work I've been with since GW1 in 2005/2006 just persistently botches things in regards to PvP in recent years (even PvE) or seems to do the bare minimum. Not everything has to be all nice and positive and in general pandering back slapping congratulations where we ignore the issues. Recognize the good but don't ignore the bad. Are there unjustified whiners out there? For fucking sure there is, there are *many*, but that doesn't mean all criticism falls into that category.

[Dahkeus.8243]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > > > > Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > P.s. I'd rather have duo queue available regardless of rank, but I also don't tie my ego to my PvP rank and love playing with friends.

> > > > > It was all here.. even voted down in multiple threads. What are you talking about? It worked out as everyone expected: more imbalanced matches, more ppl who wouldnt even reach top250 carried to higher ranks. This was discussed and expected. Simply Anet decided to please the vocal minority.

> > > >

> > > > The question was rhetorical, but there's no clear measure of minority vs majority opinion in GW2 outside of who speaks up. People only speak up when there's something they don't like, so it's no surprise to see this community always chasing its tail, particularly since the PvP community is especially salty about everything and grateful for nothing.

> > >

> > > What exactly should one be grateful for in regards to anything in sPvP? Honestly curious because as it stands...the current PvP population doesn't reflect *any* reason to have gratitude for anything in sPvP. ESL pulled out of GW2, 5 man premades were removed, Ranked is being abandoned for ATs and other tournament style systems, balance doesn't get better or worse it just stays in the same annoying place its been for months and months at a time, wintrading hasn't gone away *at all*, its all the same exact people with main and alt accounts at the top of the leaderboard on top of the sPvP community being so small that the top 250 means absolutely nothing now.

> > >

> > > So I'll ask again, what exactly should people be grateful for?

> >

> > Nothing! It's all evil! Eeeeeevil! They nerfed mah class and kicked my puppy! We're only here playing GW2 PvP and talking about it on the forums because we're noble martyrs heralding it's failures so as to make sure no one else makes the mistake of trying this game!

> >

> > /s

>

> Not the implication I was making. I was legitimately asking the question, what can you actually list that we have to be grateful for in regards to PvP? Just that its there? Seriously.

>

> There are good parts to the game, obviously because otherwise I would never play, I don't play games that I don't enjoy like how I stopped playing League of Legends because I hate League of Legends, I stopped playing WoW *years and years* ago (like back in WOTLK) because I didn't enjoy the game, I don't play PUBG or other BR games not because they are bad games (I actually enjoy FPS games and shooters in general) but I am bored of the whole BR setup.

>

> The reason I say and ask these things is because I've played this game for years and I appreciate the dev teams time they've put in but at the same time I'm not going to refrain from criticizing what is lacking and the current state of the game because I want things to improve and it honestly triggers me when this team whose work I've been with since GW1 in 2005/2006 just persistently botches things in regards to PvP in recent years (even PvE) or seems to do the bare minimum. Not everything has to be all nice and positive and in general pandering back slapping congratulations where we ignore the issues. Recognize the good but don't ignore the bad. Are there unjustified whiners out there? For kitten sure there is, there are *many*, but that doesn't mean all criticism falls into that category.

 

It's not about having something specific to be "grateful" for. It's about people only coming to the forum when they're upset about something. People rarely discuss tactics, post guides, etc. The only posts that get attention or replies are ones where people are salty about something. That's not to say that there aren't things being upset over, but when that's the **only** reason people come to the forums, you don't have people here to defend things that are working well. People that are happy with how the game is going don't come to the forums much and people that are upset about ANet for something will rarely stick around to speak up against a complaint post for something they do like because they just care about ANet fixing the problem that matters to them.

 

So the result is basically what happened. When ANet only allowed solo queue past a certain rank, there was a vast majority arguing to remove this. Sure, some people defended it, but most didn't bother because it wasn't the chip on their shoulder that they came here to gripe about. Now that it's been changed, it's the same situation in reverse.

 

As I said: There's no way to tell if a vocal part of the community is the majority or the minority because the only people that feel reason to speak up about anything are the ones that are upset at something.

[BadMed.3846]

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> I always find it interesting in these discussions how everyone assumes that if you duoQ you're automatically at an advantage.

 

I think you need to read properly. It was mentioned clearly that duo queue offers both advnantages and disadvantages. I've seen 2 duos on one team lose to a team of 5 randoms. In this scenario one of the duo was horrible. End result was still poor match quality.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> Where was all this criticism when the community was raging against the devs for restricting high end PvP to solo queue only?

 

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> The question was rhetorical, but there's no clear measure of minority vs majority opinion in GW2 outside of who speaks up. People only speak up when there's something they don't like, so it's no surprise to see this community always chasing its tail, particularly since the PvP community is especially salty about everything and grateful for nothing.

 

Was it rhetorical because that rage and criticism didn't exist and you knew that when posting? There was absolutely no reason for anyone outside the highest end of pvp players to be upset about DuoQ being locked past plat2 unless they desired to be boosted or be instrumental in wintrading. The general census was that nobody really cared, so the highest ranked players were able to get what they want rather easily, as per usual.

 

Also, going by that it's actually _very easy_ to measure minority vs majority opinion. While everyone who consistently sat under plat2 had absolutely no good reason to be concerned with it whatsoever, that's not even taking into account the people 1600+ who were/are already satisfied playing SoloQ. You are left with a small portion of what is already the very top% of players in a competitive mode with an already terribly small population. **You can easily call that a minority of players.**

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Lexani.6152" said:

> Mate, you make no sense. Firstly, queueing with a friend or a random is a lottery, not skill. And you want to play lottery hopping that your opponent will get a newbie player, and yes, there are thousands of them getting gold rank just after placement games. There should be only team queues, I mean 5 people, in the end this is game for the teams.

>

> Okay, even 2 people is better than just solo, and I was queueing solo for the last 3 seasons as a protest, I dropped many games I could win, or played them by watching a movie, because it became rng, not skill. Anyway, pvp is dead for a long time now and you only see same players on top just because nobody play it seriously anymore. kitten, I am just farming shards for pvp mistforged set. So solo q is just a very poor idea.

 

Mate, **YOU** make no sense. Ranked can feel like a bit of a diceroll, I get that, but playing in a DuoQ as Arenanet has gone on to admit; makes it difficult to fit you into an evenly matched game. By playing in a Duo, you actually make the game much more RNG for yourself. I get wanting TeamQ back as well. That could be a thing, but one still has to consider the state of this game and how difficult it is for the average player regardless of rank to get 5 people together just to play. It can't be the _only_ competitive option outside ATs.

 

Why were you Qing Solo as a protest if you're adamant in defending DuoQ? Before Season 13 even when nobody was particularly bothered by it? Why were you watching a movie while playing PvP? Isn't that a bit distracting? So many questions. The only suggestion I could contribute is to stop making it hard on yourself. If you think Solo Q is a bad idea and you hate it, then I think you shouldn't do it. You should use what systems are in place that give you the easiest time in accomplishing your goals.

[Shadow Dragon.1469]

If we are saying they should get rid of duo q in ranked pvp i agree.

 

However they should add a team q for those people that can't play the game in a solo environment because of (insert reason) and this que shouldn't even allow for a single solo person so min2 & max5 group if someone has a group of 2 they have to wait for a group of 3 or tough luck <---- this idea sucks but w/e

 

or

 

Have a ranked q for only teams of 5, long waits? too bad

 

The only way ranked would be balanced (ignoring classes) is if everyone has to abide by the same lottery of straight solo games instead of gaming the system with a person you know till then i don't take it seriously either, but notice i did say people that want to team up should have their own outlet as well but they shouldn't mix and match.

[BadMed.3846]

We should simply have an individual as well as a team leaderboard. Cut out everything in between. Either solo or full team. But you don't progress solo leaderboard by playing as a team.

2v2 needs to be a completely separate game mode.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > Pretty much. Different groups of people each time though. You have one side which wants to play with friends and another side who want to blame everything for their failure except themselves.

>

> Nobody mentioned anything about failures or losses, only poor quality of games. DuoQ taints as many wins as it is responsible for losses. There's nothing fun about 500-100 point wipes brought on by pip farming, wintrading, or powerstacking DuoQs regardless of whether or not you win or lose. It's just really unhealthy for the game regardless.

>

Wintrading, etc. happened during solo queue too. Outside of match manipulation, the match quality argument is completely subjective. I would argue that many matches with seemingly blow-out scores (100-200 vs 500) were actually a lot closer. A few repeated mistakes makes a world of difference. If one hadn't have been made, the score could have been 400-500. The argument that duo queue makes overall match quality worse is completely unfounded. It's just something people use to blame for losses.

 

> As to wanting to play with friends... bit surprised people are still drawing that victim card on this thread when the OP directly encourages more ways for people to play together in both ATs and unranked. Even with all that, they don't mention anything about TeamQ which, if it ever comes back, is another way to play Ranked with friends. The only real problem is DuoQ Ranked. It's too easily exploited, and when in the rare case it's not being exploited; there isn't enough people playing ranked for the matchmaker to competently match them against similarly ranked players. There's still plenty of ways to play PvP with friends; even competitively, and especially if 2v2 and/or TeamQing come back.

ATs in their current state do not facilitate playing with friends. Even swiss style won't fix that (and it's been in development for a year). If I have a few friends online, we want to play _now_ - not an hour from now. And we'd like to play for a couple hours. The only way ATs could fix that is on-demand ATs. The only other choice is bringing back team (groups of 1-5 players) queue. Funny story is that we used to have both solo and team queue. Solo queue had an initial spike in popularity, but fell way below team queue in participation because solo queue fostered a toxic atmosphere where teamplay was avoided - kinda like what we have now. The simple solution is to just re-enable team queue in ranked and ignore the whiners - they whine regardless of what you do because they'll never accept that they aren't as good as they think they are.

 

[BadMed.3846]

Nothing else facilitates team play well so let's wreck a single player leaderboard based ranked game mode. This is exactly what is sickening about this game mode and the decision to allow it to happen.

Match quality with duos is pathetic compared to full solo queues.

[BadMed.3846]

Team queue should be enabled but only to face another team queue. Good luck with your long queues. At least you will be playing against like minded people.

[Chaith.8256]

We can continue to disable and enable duo queuing every other season. However, let's get rid of the false assumption that switching it again will do what you think it will.

 

Disabling/enabling duo queue will not noticeably improve the match quality.

 

[Chilli.2976]

Duo queue is too OP for the current state of the game and the population it's self. 100 players playing PvP 25% of them top 25 = no balance.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> Wintrading, etc. happened during solo queue too. Outside of match manipulation, the match quality argument is completely subjective. I would argue that many matches with seemingly blow-out scores (100-200 vs 500) were actually a lot closer. A few repeated mistakes makes a world of difference. If one hadn't have been made, the score could have been 400-500. The argument that duo queue makes overall match quality worse is completely unfounded. It's just something people use to blame for losses.

>

> ATs in their current state do not facilitate playing with friends. Even swiss style won't fix that (and it's been in development for a year). If I have a few friends online, we want to play _now_ - not an hour from now. And we'd like to play for a couple hours. The only way ATs could fix that is on-demand ATs. The only other choice is bringing back team (groups of 1-5 players) queue. Funny story is that we used to have both solo and team queue. Solo queue had an initial spike in popularity, but fell way below team queue in participation because solo queue fostered a toxic atmosphere where teamplay was avoided - kinda like what we have now. The simple solution is to just re-enable team queue in ranked and ignore the whiners - they whine regardless of what you do because they'll never accept that they aren't as good as they think they are.

>

 

Yeah, I know Wintrading exists in SoloQ. I'm not preaching that SoloQ was perfect by any means, nor do I wish to imply DuoQ is the only issue that makes ranked such a hassle, but I do mean to say that Wintrading is far easier and more commonplace with ranked DuoQ and it comes with some other big problems you wouldn't get in a SoloQ environment, like the very top% of players running things like a circle_kitten_ and the lower ranked DuoQ's pipfarming and being placed in much higher ranked games than they, and their teams would like. All three of which problems I **subjectively** believe diminish match quality, just like I **subjectively** believe those same scenarios of games where you win or lose by 300, 400, or more points are poor quality matches and not the byproduct of some "mistakes" made in a match _unless_ the mistake you're referencing is 2 stacked top 10 players farming a bunch of golds and plat1 players. It's a feature I guess, because any argument against DuoQ is apparently unfounded.

 

As to what you said about ATs... I think that sounds like more of a personal issue, purely **subjective.** If it were me and my friends wanting to do ATs on the other hand, we can look and see exactly when to be on. If some of us are busy at that time we can fill through LFG of any kind. I do kind of agree with you here, and adhere to the OP's thoughts where they need to be more frequent to appeal to those people who want to play them quicker. Similarly, 2v2 ATs were pretty neat, I personally think that should be a permanent feature, and again; more frequent. I'm also all for TeamQ coming back, so long as they're split into fighting other 5 stacks, and that doesn't remain the only option for competitive play outside ATs.

 

I'd like to note real quick that of course I speak subjectively, as does nearly everyone else here. Personal feelings that come from personal experience and some fact. I think it's kind of an unfair standard if you expected a post like this to have discussions rooted in objectivity.