List of legendary characters Revenant could channel to use Greatsword in the next elite spec

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > > > @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > > > @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > > > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > > > > > We dont need a shiro copycat power dps legend, but something more unique to make a new way of playing the class as Especs is intended for.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You know what I'd want? Or rather accept, as far as a Greatsword goes?

> > > > > > An *active* pet class. Make it an... Animancer. Someone who can, Guardian-style-but-more, animate a weapon to fight for them. New weapon can then be Greatsword, whatever.

> > > > > > Point is, they don't have weapon skills anyhow. Instead 1-5 become the pet control skills, and that pet has the autoattack and all, separate from me. But it has to be babysitted and controlled, because it's 90% of what I can do, only it is vulnerable and won't do anything on its own.

> > > > >

> > > > > AIs in this game tend to suck. Not sure that would work out very well.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I agree. AI has never really worked in this game. I can't see it working especially in PvP, turning it into Kalla 2.0.

> > > >

> > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > > > > @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > > > > > List of weapons which would be utterly boring to get because everyone and their mother already has them:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Greatsword.

> > > > >

> > > > > Has to be said once again, Greatswords are -boring-. Play a warrior or guardian or reaper if you want to use one. Dont force such a bland weapon upon unconventional revenants, they dont need it. We dont need a shiro copycat power dps legend, but something more unique to make a new way of playing the class as Especs is intended for.

> > > >

> > > > You keep on saying Greatswords are boring. That's just your opinion, not a fact.

> > > > In my opinion the caster weapons like sceptres are even more bland.

> > > > The only "unconventional" weapon revenants use is the ranged hammer

> >

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > Except Scepter has one of the most versatile move sets in the game, thanks to Elementalist. You may be able to say it looks bland but its performance is far from bland. When we say greatsword is boring we are talking performance, not looks.

> >

> > Yeah, but you could change the Scepter into any other spellcaster weapon and the effects could stay the same. Atleast you are using a greatsword and not just holding the weapon up in the air to cast something. That's what i mean with bland, it doesn't have any presonality.

> >

>

> Except they haven't. So that doesn't matter. It has a unique set of things it does. I am discussing the scepter, as it is presented, in this game. What they could do doesn't nullify what they have done. What they could do does not counter an argument based on what has been done. You could change the greatsword into any other melee weapon and the effects stay the same. That's really a fatuous argument.

>

> As for personality, really? By your very definition of what's bland the greatsword fits. You've effectively defined bland as how the weapon gets used. Since most uses of the great sword involved hitting people it is no different in function from holding a weapon up in the air. Unless your definition for bland is ranged attack vs melee attack but that definition for bland is truly uninspired. It also makes a definition of a weapon with personality as uninspired. You're loosely definition for personality seems to be melee vs caster which is just silly. So if they gave you a greatsword that they held up in the air and cast something would it still be bland and lack personality? Because that's what the Mesmer greatsword does. If the Mesmer greatsword has personality and isn't bland then it defeats your previous definition for bland (and I quote "not just holding the weapon up in the air to cast something. That's what i mean with bland, it doesn't have any presonality"). If the Mesmer greatsword, on the other hand, counts then clearly holding a weapon in the air is not bland. You strip everything away from Mesmer greatsword and it's just another weapon in the air to cast something.

>

> So which is it? Where does Mesmer fall? No matter how you answer the weapon, based on your ill-defined terms will violate one aspect of what you have, thus far, stated as having personality.

 

You’ve got some highly opinionated arguments here. I personally find most of the GS usage different from class to class. For example, the warrior GS is centered around movement. The guardian GS is centered around local area cleave/aoe. The ranger GS is a hybrid defensive weapon, with a movement and power burst move in it.

 

You may not like it, but what makes the most sense for the Revenant is having a cleaving weapon, and it being a hybrid power/condi skill set and GS makes the most sense here.

 

And to go back to the actual topic discussion, if Jora is it, the skill set for the utilities need to be transformations akin to the Norn racials, but with actual use!

[ParanoidKami.2867]

A greatsword makes more sense than an offhand magical weapon. They can make it a magical greatsword so all slots are for magic. They can put channeling on the greatsword, restoration for the heal and spirits for the utility slots. We can get our GW1 Ritualist back :)

[Ayrilana.1396]

My vote on Aurene although that probably doesn’t make sense with greatsword.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

> @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> A greatsword makes more sense than an offhand magical weapon. They can make it a magical greatsword so all slots are for magic. They can put channeling on the greatsword, restoration for the heal and spirits for the utility slots. We can get our GW1 Ritualist back :)

 

this guy gets it

[NaiveBayes.2587]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> Razzah: He could switch classes and of them wielded a scythe so GS isnt that farfetched aaaaand it fits revenant perfectly.

 

I hear Razah being thrown around a lot, although I did like Razah in GW1 and it would be cool to channel it. I mus ask what exactly did Razah do that would qualify it as legendary in Tyria's history? Why Razah and not any of the other companions we had?

[Dace.8173]

> @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:>

> You’ve got some highly opinionated arguments here. I personally find most of the GS usage different from class to class. For example, the warrior GS is centered around movement. The guardian GS is centered around local area cleave/aoe. The ranger GS is a hybrid defensive weapon, with a movement and power burst move in it.

>

> You may not like it, but what makes the most sense for the Revenant is having a cleaving weapon, and it being a hybrid power/condi skill set and GS makes the most sense here.

>

> And to go back to the actual topic discussion, if Jora is it, the skill set for the utilities need to be transformations akin to the Norn racials, but with actual use!

 

The fact that the attacks are the same is not an opinion. It's an observable fact. The experience of them may be different but a spin attack is still a spin attack. That isn't an opinion, that's an observable fact. A gap closer is still a gap closer. That's not an opinion, that's an observable fact. An attack that draws your opponent to you is still an attack that draws your opponent to you. These are all observable facts, not opinions. What you are discussing with Warrior, Guardian, and Ranger are what they do with the weapon. What I was discussing was how they go about doing that and how they copy the same basic move sets in order to do that. They could have gone down the road of making the Warrior's movement based greatsword attacks different from Ranger and Guardian, but they didn't.

 

As for cleave, Revenant already has cleaving attacks. The following attacks are cleave attacks for Revenant; sword: Rift Slash, Precision Strike, and Unrelenting Assualt; Mace: Misery Swipe, Anguish wipe, Manifest Toxin; Staff: Rapid Strike, Forceful Bash, Rejuvenating Assualt. You may not like it but Revenant actually has cleave attacks so an argument based around _NEEDING_ a cleaving weapon is built on sand. Additionally, any weapon can be a hybrid power/condi weapon. There is no weapon that inherently makes more sense for that role. Especially if we consider that the majority of greatsword move sets are not hybrid power/condi skill sets. Across the board, greatsword has pretty much been a power weapon. So while any weapon can be a hybrid weapon one cannot make the argument that the greatsword is logically the best choice for this because its use for other professions/Elites has been power. One can not also argue for cleave attacks in a fashion, such as yours, that implies that Revenant lacks cleave attacks. Revenant has three cleaving weapons. Those three weapons are actually staples of most Revenant builds anyway.

 

It simply cannot be argued that greatsword makes the most sense. Revenant already has cleave attacks. Most power builds run with sword/staff providing a player with 6 cleave attacks and condi builds run with Mace which provides 3 (possibly more if you take staff as your backup weapon). There is nothing inherent about the greatsword that says its the best weapon for hybrid builds, more so when you consider it is more a power weapon in most builds that use it. Thus you can argue that you want great sword because you feel that Revenant needs more cleave attacks and you want those cleave attacks to come from great sword. But there is no logic that supports greatsword being a natural choice for hybrid weapons.

 

Though the whole cleave thing amuses me since folks keep insisting that greatsword doesn't have to be a physical weapon and that it could play more like Mesmer.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"NaiveBayes.2587" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > Razzah: He could switch classes and of them wielded a scythe so GS isnt that farfetched aaaaand it fits revenant perfectly.

>

> I hear Razah being thrown around a lot, although I did like Razah in GW1 and it would be cool to channel it. I mus ask what exactly did Razah do that would qualify it as legendary in Tyria's history? Why Razah and not any of the other companions we had?

 

He is a mist being. He is not from this world and he is somewhat unique and die to the fact that he can swap classes so easily maybe he was the proto-revenant.

Dont care how hard he impacted the story but rather how the story arround him could evolve.

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

 

-To be fair. All weapons are made like this. some have block , some gap closer,.. You always find similarities in all weapon sets.

-Hybrid GS is(was) Reapers GS. You can actually still play it as condi.

-I can't say that Precision Strike is something good for cleave. Because you can hit 1 target with all 3 attacks if you get near the hitbox.SW3 you cannat really control. So no cleave from this one but with other spells I will agree with you. Guy maybe means that Guard can deal massive AoE. yea we can autoattack ˘˘

 

Im kinda OK with every weapon. If it will be usefull. I believe if devs decide to go for GS it will be visualy awesome and it gets some nice skills. All Rev weapons are really different from other classes weapons so im not worry about it.

 

 

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:>

> > You’ve got some highly opinionated arguments here. I personally find most of the GS usage different from class to class. For example, the warrior GS is centered around movement. The guardian GS is centered around local area cleave/aoe. The ranger GS is a hybrid defensive weapon, with a movement and power burst move in it.

> >

> > You may not like it, but what makes the most sense for the Revenant is having a cleaving weapon, and it being a hybrid power/condi skill set and GS makes the most sense here.

> >

> > And to go back to the actual topic discussion, if Jora is it, the skill set for the utilities need to be transformations akin to the Norn racials, but with actual use!

>

> The fact that the attacks are the same is not an opinion. It's an observable fact. The experience of them may be different but a spin attack is still a spin attack. That isn't an opinion, that's an observable fact. A gap closer is still a gap closer. That's not an opinion, that's an observable fact. An attack that draws your opponent to you is still an attack that draws your opponent to you. These are all observable facts, not opinions. What you are discussing with Warrior, Guardian, and Ranger are what they do with the weapon. What I was discussing was how they go about doing that and how they copy the same basic move sets in order to do that. They could have gone down the road of making the Warrior's movement based greatsword attacks different from Ranger and Guardian, but they didn't.

>

> As for cleave, Revenant already has cleaving attacks. The following attacks are cleave attacks for Revenant; sword: Rift Slash, Precision Strike, and Unrelenting Assualt; Mace: Misery Swipe, Anguish wipe, Manifest Toxin; Staff: Rapid Strike, Forceful Bash, Rejuvenating Assualt. You may not like it but Revenant actually has cleave attacks so an argument based around _NEEDING_ a cleaving weapon is built on sand. Additionally, any weapon can be a hybrid power/condi weapon. There is no weapon that inherently makes more sense for that role. Especially if we consider that the majority of greatsword move sets are not hybrid power/condi skill sets. Across the board, greatsword has pretty much been a power weapon. So while any weapon can be a hybrid weapon one cannot make the argument that the greatsword is logically the best choice for this because its use for other professions/Elites has been power. One can not also argue for cleave attacks in a fashion, such as yours, that implies that Revenant lacks cleave attacks. Revenant has three cleaving weapons. Those three weapons are actually staples of most Revenant builds anyway.

>

> It simply cannot be argued that greatsword makes the most sense. Revenant already has cleave attacks. Most power builds run with sword/staff providing a player with 6 cleave attacks and condi builds run with Mace which provides 3 (possibly more if you take staff as your backup weapon). There is nothing inherent about the greatsword that says its the best weapon for hybrid builds, more so when you consider it is more a power weapon in most builds that use it. Thus you can argue that you want great sword because you feel that Revenant needs more cleave attacks and you want those cleave attacks to come from great sword. But there is no logic that supports greatsword being a natural choice for hybrid weapons.

>

> Though the whole cleave thing amuses me since folks keep insisting that greatsword doesn't have to be a physical weapon and that it could play more like Mesmer.

 

Wow, you’re really passionate about making sure Gs doesn’t get to Rev.

 

Anyways, it sounds like you’re arguing with yourself about functionality. If you’re unwilling to see the differences in class functionality that are observable, that’s on you and the argument is just opinion.

 

On cleaving, you’re arguing semantics, so I’ll clarify my point a bit. Revenant needs a proper, dps cleaving weapon that has a wide area of attack. One could argue that there is staff, but that’s a support weapon with not so great dps.

 

On hybrid skills, well you got me on that one. I should have explained my point a bit more but was trying to avoid a wall of text, and I say that while glaring at your post. A hybrid power/condi weapon is missing from the Rev arsenal.

 

Thus the above is why IMO, Gs makes sense as the next weapon.

 

Also, please don’t stereotype me with “folks” that are amusing you with the Mes throw back. I said nothing of the sort in my post to you. If you’re going to go down that road, I find it equally amusing how you and another poster on this thread feel the need to regurgitate your anti-Gs rhetoric on every thread that asks for Gs.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

>

> -To be fair. All weapons are made like this. some have block , some gap closer,.. You always find similarities in all weapon sets.

> -Hybrid GS is(was) Reapers GS. You can actually still play it as condi.

> -I can't say that Precision Strike is something good for cleave. Because you can hit 1 target with all 3 attacks if you get near the hitbox.SW3 you cannat really control. So no cleave from this one but with other spells I will agree with you. Guy maybe means that Guard can deal massive AoE. yea we can autoattack ˘˘

>

> Im kinda OK with every weapon. If it will be usefull. I believe if devs decide to go for GS it will be visualy awesome and it gets some nice skills. All Rev weapons are really different from other classes weapons so im not worry about it.

>

>

 

Not all weapons. Some have worse overlap than others. Weapons like Scepter, staff, rifle, and pistol have a lot more variety. Even sword tends to have a bit more variety than what we see from greatsword. ANet clearly puts more thought into some weapon types than they do others. I expect some overalp between weapons. Just when it comes to greatsword ANet has too much overlap in how they go about it. Considering how imaginative they get with some weapons, such as your mention of Revenant weapons, its a shame that ANet takes a weapon like greatsword and just copy and pastes so much. I'm not arguing that other weapons don't overlap, just that greatsword overlaps more than most.

 

Precision Strike would count because the skill says it can cleave. Lack of actual control doesn't change that it can do it. That's more an argument for whether or not it's a good cleave skill. I was arguing that we had cleave weapons already, not really evaluating the individual skills. But to be fair, how much control do you really have with most cleave attacks? It's not like you are choosing the specific targets to cleave. Typically its just the three people that are in the weapons arc. This really comes down to whether or not you enjoy the way in which Precision Strike chooses targets opting to dart about as opposed to hitting the three closest people.

 

 

 

> @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

>

> Wow, you’re really passionate about making sure Gs doesn’t get to Rev.

 

Meh, not really. This is just something that passes the time when I'm bored. It's not like I would stop playing the game if they gave Revenant a greatsword.

 

> Anyways, it sounds like you’re arguing with yourself about functionality. If you’re unwilling to see the differences in class functionality that are observable, that’s on you and the argument is just opinion.

 

Well no. You're not really using opinion correct in these instances. The statements about the moves I made are observable facts, not opinions. Unless you want to argue that it is only an opinion that an attack that clearly spins should be called a spin attack the specific arguments I made are fact-based. Whether or not it matters to you would be an opinion (though whether or not something is an opinion is immaterial. The statement that something is an opinion is not an actual argument or a point. It's like saying the sky is blue). Also, class functionality is still an argument about functionality.

 

> On cleaving, you’re arguing semantics, so I’ll clarify my point a bit. Revenant needs a proper, dps cleaving weapon that has a wide area of attack. One could argue that there is staff, but that’s a support weapon with not so great dps.

 

This too is a semantic argument.

 

 

> On hybrid skills, well you got me on that one. I should have explained my point a bit more but was trying to avoid a wall of text, and I say that while glaring at your post. A hybrid power/condi weapon is missing from the Rev arsenal.

>

> Thus the above is why IMO, Gs makes sense as the next weapon.

 

The two do not follow. The act of needing a hybrid power/condi weapon does not follow that the greatsword makes the most sense for that weapon. Any weapon can be a hybrid weapon and because of that reason there no logical link between that need and that need being filled by another weapon. The logical weapon would really come down to the nature of the Elite spec in question.

 

> Also, please don’t stereotype me with “folks” that are amusing you with the Mes throw back. I said nothing of the sort in my post to you. If you’re going to go down that road, I find it equally amusing how you and another poster on this thread feel the need to regurgitate your anti-Gs rhetoric on every thread that asks for Gs.

 

That doesn't bother me one bit. Feel free to do so. 100% ok with what you find amusing. I wasn't talking about you (so being placed in that category is all on you) but if you feel the need to place me into a category of people then, by all means, have at it. It's not like I'm oblivious to this or such a statement would change anything I've said or will say. The same group of people tend to push having a greatsword. Is that something that we should care about too?

 

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> >

> > -To be fair. All weapons are made like this. some have block , some gap closer,.. You always find similarities in all weapon sets.

> > -Hybrid GS is(was) Reapers GS. You can actually still play it as condi.

> > -I can't say that Precision Strike is something good for cleave. Because you can hit 1 target with all 3 attacks if you get near the hitbox.SW3 you cannat really control. So no cleave from this one but with other spells I will agree with you. Guy maybe means that Guard can deal massive AoE. yea we can autoattack ˘˘

> >

> > Im kinda OK with every weapon. If it will be usefull. I believe if devs decide to go for GS it will be visualy awesome and it gets some nice skills. All Rev weapons are really different from other classes weapons so im not worry about it.

> >

> >

>

> Not all weapons. Some have worse overlap than others. Weapons like Scepter, staff, rifle, and pistol have a lot more variety. Even sword tends to have a bit more variety than what we see from greatsword. ANet clearly puts more thought into some weapon types than they do others. I expect some overalp between weapons. Just when it comes to greatsword ANet has too much overlap in how they go about it. Considering how imaginative they get with some weapons, such as your mention of Revenant weapons, its a shame that ANet takes a weapon like greatsword and just copy and pastes so much. I'm not arguing that other weapons don't overlap, just that greatsword overlaps more than most.

>

> Precision Strike would count because the skill says it can cleave. Lack of actual control doesn't change that it can do it. That's more an argument for whether or not it's a good cleave skill. I was arguing that we had cleave weapons already, not really evaluating the individual skills. But to be fair, how much control do you really have with most cleave attacks? It's not like you are choosing the specific targets to cleave. Typically its just the three people that are in the weapons arc. This really comes down to whether or not you enjoy the way in which Precision Strike chooses targets opting to dart about as opposed to hitting the three closest people.

>

>

>

> > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> >

> > Wow, you’re really passionate about making sure Gs doesn’t get to Rev.

>

> Meh, not really. This is just something that passes the time when I'm bored. It's not like I would stop playing the game if they gave Revenant a greatsword.

>

> > Anyways, it sounds like you’re arguing with yourself about functionality. If you’re unwilling to see the differences in class functionality that are observable, that’s on you and the argument is just opinion.

>

> Well no. You're not really using opinion correct in these instances. The statements about the moves I made are observable facts, not opinions. Unless you want to argue that it is only an opinion that an attack that clearly spins should be called a spin attack the specific arguments I made are fact-based. Whether or not it matters to you would be an opinion (though whether or not something is an opinion is immaterial. The statement that something is an opinion is not an actual argument or a point. It's like saying the sky is blue). Also, class functionality is still an argument about functionality.

>

> > On cleaving, you’re arguing semantics, so I’ll clarify my point a bit. Revenant needs a proper, dps cleaving weapon that has a wide area of attack. One could argue that there is staff, but that’s a support weapon with not so great dps.

>

> This too is a semantic argument.

>

>

> > On hybrid skills, well you got me on that one. I should have explained my point a bit more but was trying to avoid a wall of text, and I say that while glaring at your post. A hybrid power/condi weapon is missing from the Rev arsenal.

> >

> > Thus the above is why IMO, Gs makes sense as the next weapon.

>

> The two do not follow. The act of needing a hybrid power/condi weapon does not follow that the greatsword makes the most sense for that weapon. Any weapon can be a hybrid weapon and because of that reason there no logical link between that need and that need being filled by another weapon. The logical weapon would really come down to the nature of the Elite spec in question.

>

> > Also, please don’t stereotype me with “folks” that are amusing you with the Mes throw back. I said nothing of the sort in my post to you. If you’re going to go down that road, I find it equally amusing how you and another poster on this thread feel the need to regurgitate your anti-Gs rhetoric on every thread that asks for Gs.

>

> That doesn't bother me one bit. Feel free to do so. 100% ok with what you find amusing. I wasn't talking about you (so being placed in that category is all on you) but if you feel the need to place me into a category of people then, by all means, have at it. It's not like I'm oblivious to this or such a statement would change anything I've said or will say. The same group of people tend to push having a greatsword. Is that something that we should care about too?

>

 

Now you’re just arguing to argue. No, I do not concur with your opinions.

[Samuel.4812]

I don’t see why they couldn’t do GS/Balthazar stance without making it different from other specs. It could be very much like a spell mage but deliver quicker attacks than hammer.

 

I would love to see my revs hold their great sword aloft towards the sky and channeling a fiery aoe spell from 1200 range.

 

People want different rev weapons but really focus and scepter look terribly odd on heavy armor characters.