EB the new EOTM & why eotm should have pips.

[SkyShroud.2865]

They should just remove eotm altogether, it serve no purpose.

[Rumba.3174]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > > > EoTM is not wvw.

> > > And then we have wiki:

> > > >@wiki

> > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**.

> > >

> >

> > Hold my beer.

> >

> > _Edge of the Mists provides instant access to competitive play, and **can be enjoyed while you're waiting for a Mist War map**. Progress made in the **Edge of the Mists does not count toward the Mist War score**

> > In-game description_

> >

> > And:

> >

> > _Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even **when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category**. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to core WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges._

> >

> > Full wiki:

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists

> >

> > Anet has made their position clear on no pips in EoTM (it's not technically possible). The whole argument is moot. It. Is. Not. Technically. Possible. EoTM simply does not work like wvw.

>

> I'll give you a second beer for that. Reality is, he won't listen. It would appear to this straw man that he doesn't want new players or pugs or loot seekers in HIS maps.

 

And the straw man scores agian :D

Mate it's you personally i won't litsen to and you know why, don't be a cry baby now. have a cookie and cheer up.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > > > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > > > > EoTM is not wvw.

> > > > And then we have wiki:

> > > > >@wiki

> > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Hold my beer.

> > >

> > > _Edge of the Mists provides instant access to competitive play, and **can be enjoyed while you're waiting for a Mist War map**. Progress made in the **Edge of the Mists does not count toward the Mist War score**

> > > In-game description_

> > >

> > > And:

> > >

> > > _Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even **when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category**. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to core WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges._

> > >

> > > Full wiki:

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists

> > >

> > > Anet has made their position clear on no pips in EoTM (it's not technically possible). The whole argument is moot. It. Is. Not. Technically. Possible. EoTM simply does not work like wvw.

> >

> > Look at this link:

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

> > > @wiki:

> > > It features open-world combat on **five** large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map.

>

> I'm running out of beer.

>

> The 5 maps listed on the left of the UI shown in the wiki includes Obsidian Sanctum (not even going to get into an OS argument). Otherwise it would state 6 maps.

>

> And:

> _Getting there

> Asura gates located at Lion's Arch Point of Interest

> Mist Portals lead to each WvW map.

> Each WvW map has asura gates to travel to other WvW maps.

> Waypoints can be used to travel between WvW maps if the player is already in a WvW map_

>

> I must have missed that EoTM portal in the citadel, my bad.

>

> And:

> _Interface

> The interface used in Borderlands and Eternal Battlegrounds at the top of your screen. **Edge of the Mists uses a different interface.**_

 

*sends a beer truck*

[Rumba.3174]

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> They should just remove eotm altogether, it serve no purpose.

 

You got a point there since it's almost as dead as dungeons since core wvw got pips.

[Blodeuyn.2751]

> @Rumba.3174 said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > > > > > EoTM is not wvw.

> > > > > And then we have wiki:

> > > > > >@wiki

> > > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**.

> > > > >

> > > > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic.

> > > >

> > > > Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Says the straw man :P And also takes feelings to be facts :P

> >

> > No actual reply? Speaking of straw.

> >

> > It's hard when someone disputes your facts that are derived from a third party source when you disregard an actual statement from the developers.

> >

> I personally rulled you out to be taken serious due to the straw man u pulled and and shortly after taking feelings to be facts so yeah.

> How other ppl want to responde to you is up to them, but you sure not worth my time to be serious to.

 

If he's not worth your time, why do you keep responding. :)

[Rumba.3174]

> @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > > > > > > EoTM is not wvw.

> > > > > > And then we have wiki:

> > > > > > >@wiki

> > > > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**.

> > > > > >

> > > > > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Says the straw man :P And also takes feelings to be facts :P

> > >

> > > No actual reply? Speaking of straw.

> > >

> > > It's hard when someone disputes your facts that are derived from a third party source when you disregard an actual statement from the developers.

> > >

> > I personally rulled you out to be taken serious due to the straw man u pulled and and shortly after taking feelings to be facts so yeah.

> > How other ppl want to responde to you is up to them, but you sure not worth my time to be serious to.

>

> If he's not worth your time, why do you keep responding. :)

 

My serious time. I should have phrased that better.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @Rumba.3174 said:

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> > They should just remove eotm altogether, it serve no purpose.

>

> You got a point there since it's almost as dead as dungeons since wvw got pips.

 

That's not it. It was intended as a off map for queue but it came a year late which by then majority already do not have queues outside reset. Contradictory, it pull away populations from WvW.

 

Then, when wvw population algorithm came, it does not account for EOTM population. EOTM therefore itself contribute to inaccurate population representation mainly due to guilds running in eotm due to boring matchup or practice or whatever. Likewise, existence of EOTM guilds which every once awhile bring their eotm blob into WvW. All of those activities are not account by the wvw population algorithm.

 

Now, pips bring great majority of the people back into WvW therefore allowing the population to be more accurately calculated. As for now, there are little queues outside reset, it longer has any purpose. While the initial intention of EOTM is good, it doesn't mean it end up beneficial to the game mode as a whole.

[Junkpile.7439]

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> They should just remove eotm altogether, it serve no purpose.

 

Where would i play after ticket i have capped weekly tickets?

[Jana.6831]

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

>While the initial intention of EOTM is good, it doesn't mean it end up beneficial to the game mode as a whole.

I don't think so. I was on an NA server when it launched and us and the servers we played against rarely even had a blob. Until we were near T1, I think - the upper servers were crowded. And that's the sole reason why EotM was invented, because NA T1 stacked (and manipulated the game) - instead of trying to solve the root they invented EotM.

There's more to it actually. I'm not so sure EotM is 'dead' (if it is) because all who would've played EotM otherwise are in wvw for the pips. And I don't know if EotM really bothered me that much. Them getting rewards a lot easier for playing karma train did bother me, yes. But I never felt as if EotM was drawing players.

 

 

[Zephyra.4709]

I am sorry, OP, but I respectfully disagree with allowing pips in EoTM. It's a 'testing ground' by default according to the wiki nor is it part of _The Mist War._

 

> Skirmishes are only part of The Mist War and not part of EoTM. Because of that pips cannot be earned while in EoTM. - McKenna Berdrow

 

Source: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wuv/New-WvW-blog-post-June-1-2017/page/2

[Swamurabi.7890]

Welcome to the official Guild Wars 2 Wiki, the comprehensive reference written and maintained **by the players**.

 

Notice how it doesn't say maintained by Anet?

 

Wiki is not the GW2 bible.

[xDudisx.5914]

I agree. Add a pip system to EoTM. Could have 50% less rewards.

[Rhiannon.1726]

So anet should waste resources to create a pip system for eotm that would lure people away from wvw?

That really sounds like a great business plan! (Sorry for the sarcasm.)

 

The “pugs” you want to get rid of capture sentries, camps, sometimes towers/keeps, they kill yaks and they fill up the zerg.

Most guilds don’t do that during prime time, because they just want to fight.

Capturing stuff belongs to wvw as well as fighting.

Some of these “pugs” will join ts, will start to learn and maybe like wvw. Some of them may become good fighters and even join a wvw guild.

 

IMO the pip system with special loot was created to lure people into wvw. A pip system for eotm would do the opposite.

 

PS:

For me it wasn’t pips that brought me to wvw, but wvw map completion (you needed that for the Gift of Battle).

Sometimes you need a reason to leave your comfort zone to discover something new.

 

[Lambros Augustus.6594]

Well i got the WvW backpiece Warbringer early a week after catmanders came out and now I am going for the legendary armors. So for the love of all that is not a Durios Anza loop I would like to get full pips in EoTM too as its an easy solution for when I am bored which is often ticket wise.

[Loosmaster.8263]

> @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> Welcome to the official Guild Wars 2 Wiki, the comprehensive reference written and maintained **by the players**.

>

> Notice how it doesn't say maintained by Anet?

>

> Wiki is not the GW2 bible.

 

Thanks for that clarification. Now maybe they'll stop using it, lol.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Loosmaster.8263 said:

> > @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > Welcome to the official Guild Wars 2 Wiki, the comprehensive reference written and maintained **by the players**.

> >

> > Notice how it doesn't say maintained by Anet?

> >

> > Wiki is not the GW2 bible.

>

> Thanks for that clarification. Now maybe they'll stop using it, lol.

 

 

This needs to be reposted, the Official Stance Of Anet on EotM and on Rewards.

 

> EotM announcement:

> "We are in the process of designing a brand-new map that will let you enjoy WvW while waiting to enter the existing Borderlands and Eternal Battleground maps."

>

> McKenna:

> "Skirmishes are only part of The Mist War and not part of EoTM. Because of that pips cannot be earned while in EoTM. However, vendors for both the backpack and skirmish rewards will be in EoTM in case of queues."

 

As stated before EotM isn’t part of the Mist Wars so they don’t get the Mist War Rewards, Pips and related rewards are exclusive and need to be to the Mist Wars. EotM is a Overflow Queue for when maps are queued, oh look at all the complaints of map Queues EotM is doing its job as an Overflow while people wait in Queue

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> >While the initial intention of EOTM is good, it doesn't mean it end up beneficial to the game mode as a whole.

> I don't think so. I was on an NA server when it launched and us and the servers we played against rarely even had a blob. Until we were near T1, I think - the upper servers were crowded. And that's the sole reason why EotM was invented, because NA T1 stacked (and manipulated the game) - instead of trying to solve the root they invented EotM.

> There's more to it actually. I'm not so sure EotM is 'dead' (if it is) because all who would've played EotM otherwise are in wvw for the pips. And I don't know if EotM really bothered me that much. Them getting rewards a lot easier for playing karma train did bother me, yes. But I never felt as if EotM was drawing players.

>

>

 

In that case, that is because you are in a fairly crowded server. Majority of the servers' players from lower tiers will choose to go EOTM because there are more actions there as compare to what they have in normal WvW. Furthermore, it is also more rewarding. As a player, if you have to pick between WvW that is fairly empty and not so rewarding with EOTM that is populated and rewarding, it is a obvious decision. This attracted a lot of people to EOTM, drawing a lot of people from WvW as well.

 

When anet did the linking, the populations went up but since the servers are already fairly empty, it doesn't really make a lot of queues for those links that made up by clusters of low tier servers. However, the larger amount of actions in normal WvW did attract more people into WvW, it grow bigger and bigger over time with the attractions. Servers grew bigger, it really grew.

 

When the pips came, it finally draw a noticeable line between EOTM and WvW. The pips really put EOTM to its own place as a off map for queue, the pips truly differentiate EOTM and WvW.

[Jana.6831]

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> In that case, that is because you are in a fairly crowded server. Majority of the servers' players from lower tiers will choose to go EOTM because there are more actions there as compare to what they have in normal WvW.

You didn't read the timeline, did you? It was launched when nothing but T1 and T2 on NA was stacked. No one left our server to play EotM, not even after it was launched. It became a thing in NA again when the servers really were dead due to HoT's imbalance and people quitting left and right.

It was launched somewhen January? 2014. My buddies only played EotM anymore (because of the reasons you gave) around december 2015. EotM was deserted on NA on EU it wasn't.

 

>Furthermore, it is also more rewarding. As a player, if you have to pick between WvW that is fairly empty and not so rewarding with EOTM that is populated and rewarding, it is a obvious decision. This attracted a lot of people to EOTM, drawing a lot of people from WvW as well.

No, most who played EotM weren't interested in WvW. The rewards don't matter for 'real' wvw players.

 

>Servers grew bigger, it really grew.

I don't see that actually. At least not on EU, we became less and less. The pips brought an influx but wvw didn't get better.

 

> When the pips came, it finally draw a noticeable line between EOTM and WvW. The pips really put EOTM to its own place as a off map for queue, the pips truly differentiate EOTM and WvW.

I don't care about the pips or the backpiece or any rewards :D

 

ETA: And don't get me wrong: WvW needed an initative for people to try it. Maybe gift of battle was enough, maybe it wasn't. I get that the pips were a reward for longtime players - and I 'approve' it. There is a problem with too many inexperienced players coming to wvw - but WvW is that broken that none of it really matters anyway.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> > In that case, that is because you are in a fairly crowded server. Majority of the servers' players from lower tiers will choose to go EOTM because there are more actions there as compare to what they have in normal WvW.

> You didn't read the timeline, did you? It was launched when nothing but T1 and T2 on NA was stacked. No one left our server to play EotM, not even after it was launched. It became a thing in NA again when the servers really were dead due to HoT's imbalance and people quitting left and right.

> It was launched somewhen January? 2014. My buddies only played EotM anymore (because of the reasons you gave) around december 2015. EotM was deserted on NA on EU it wasn't.

 

This in itself is a bold claim, how you even know not a single person play EOTM come from WvW, are you speaking for your guild or your server?

 

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> >Furthermore, it is also more rewarding. As a player, if you have to pick between WvW that is fairly empty and not so rewarding with EOTM that is populated and rewarding, it is a obvious decision. This attracted a lot of people to EOTM, drawing a lot of people from WvW as well.

> No, most who played EotM weren't interested in WvW. The rewards don't matter for 'real' wvw players.

That isn't the point. WvW is supported by wide variety of players, if you only think about "real" and "unreal" players, you are already proceeding into a narrow perspective.

 

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> >Servers grew bigger, it really grew.

> I don't see that actually. At least not on EU, we became less and less. The pips brought an influx but wvw didn't get better.

That is falsehood, if you became less, your servers won't be full. Also, please do not compare POF periods for obvious reason.

 

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> > When the pips came, it finally draw a noticeable line between EOTM and WvW. The pips really put EOTM to its own place as a off map for queue, the pips truly differentiate EOTM and WvW.

> I don't care about the pips or the backpiece or any rewards ::dizzy:

It isn't about you, you are going off topic.

 

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> ETA: And don't get me wrong: WvW needed an initative for people to try it. Maybe gift of battle was enough, maybe it wasn't. I get that the pips were a reward for longtime players - and I 'approve' it. There is a problem with too many inexperienced players coming to wvw - but WvW is that broken that none of it really matters anyway.

I have a issue with you not wanting too many inexperienced players into WvW. When the game launched, do you think everyone was experienced? Everyone was a noob, every single person. Elitism perspective prevent growth.

[Jana.6831]

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> This in itself is a bold claim, how you even know not a single person play EOTM come from WvW, are you speaking for your guild or your server?

 

Simple, because I played both modes.

ETA: And in case you finally read it: EotM on NA was deserted all around, all colors didn't have players. For months. It wasn't only snubbed on my server it likely was snubbed on every NA server.

When I came to EU in summer/fall 2014 it was a thing (on EU). My buddies on NA still didn't play it until after HoT. None of the guys I played with in WvW (on EU) was in EotM, only if they were noobs or didn't like WvW too much anyway or trained with their guild. The playerbase on EotM was a different than WvW.

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> That isn't the point. WvW is supported by wide variety of players, if you only think about "real" and "unreal" players, you are already proceeding into a narrow perspective.

You said people want rewards and therefore rather play EotM - I say they want to play WvW even if the rewards in EotM are/were better. And I know because none of my wvw buddies played EotM - those who played WvW to join their buddies but didn't really like it were more often in EotM.

 

> @Jana.6831 said:

> That is falsehood, if you became less, your servers won't be full. Also, please do not compare POF periods for obvious reason.

I'm not playing this game anymore, I quit with the PoF patch.

And how do you know that my observations are false? (and yours are right for that matter)

 

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> It isn't about you, you are going off topic.

You don't really read what I write - offtopic at it's finest.

 

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> I have a issue with you not wanting too many inexperienced players into WvW.

I have played WvW for 4 years. I saw my server dying after the last tournament. I know what hurts a WvW community. It's nothing about elitism and I guess PvE raid players would roll their eyes would I join them with no clue what to do. Give them 5 inexperienced players and they'll ragequit.

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

>When the game launched, do you think everyone was experienced? Everyone was a noob, every single person. Elitism perspective prevent growth.

And that is an argument for what exactly?

[Jana.6831]

Double post

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

*slightly off topic* pug used to mean pick up group. Now pug is just anyone who isn't part of your circle. Reading pug this - pug that, has gotten to be tiresome.

 

Players play where they want to either have fun or earn some trinket (everyones hope is to do both). WvW PIP don't belong in EOTM even in a modified form. If a player likes EOTM, they can go enjoy the game there. This argument about adding 'pips', which is just the path to earning rewards, is just a variation of the PVE player demands for a way to earn legendary armor outside of raids.

 

My thought is if you want to earn those trinkets, play the mode it was designed for.

 

[Blodeuyn.2751]

 

> @"Lambros Augustus.6594" said:

> Well i got the WvW backpiece Warbringer early a week after catmanders came out and now I am going for the legendary armors. So for the love of all that is not a Durios Anza loop I would like to get full pips in EoTM too as its an easy solution for when I am bored which is often ticket wise.

 

This is exactly why EoTM should not have pips.

[Junkpile.7439]

 

> @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

>

> > @"Lambros Augustus.6594" said:

> > Well i got the WvW backpiece Warbringer early a week after catmanders came out and now I am going for the legendary armors. So for the love of all that is not a Durios Anza loop I would like to get full pips in EoTM too as its an easy solution for when I am bored which is often ticket wise.

>

> This is exactly why EoTM should not have pips.

Yes it's better that we akf in normal WvW. :D

 

[Kaiser.9873]

> @Rumba.3174 said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > So now that we have new people in WvW, it's 'they stink so get out?'

> >

> > You must be playing on a server that ques all 4 maps then.

> Yes we have new players and that really awesome! Indeed I’m in a server that got 4 queues.

>

> But as I said in OP, due to that eotm does not have pips the pugs come to core wvw and they don’t want to join VoIP, cos they are pugs. Due to this it causes alot of friction in map/team chat. So by giving eotm pips they can enjoy their pug wvw back in eotm and still get their rewards.

 

Most servers do NOT queue all 4 maps, except on reset. You take the PuGs/militia/whatever fotm name you want to give them away then there would be less than a hand full of servers that would queue all 4 maps ON reset.

 

You want YOUR EotM back. You don't care about PuGs. You want to go farm pips more easily.