how do people decide that mirage is op? (it's not op, a defense of the cyber bullied class)

[Khalisto.5780]

Oh well

 

I decided that when I was struggling to climb ranks for months than I pick mesmer and with only 2 days playing it I climb from silver 2 to gold 3. Pick mesmer, chain all your deffensive skills, kill ppl that are far better than you mechanically, you might only lose to other mesmers, soulbeasts and hollos

[rev in love.8439]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> seems like these days the tension has risen due to a certain popular streamer's videos and all the peons are in an uproar with their pitchforks with the hope of getting lord arena net to once and for all completely obliterate and delete the spec mirage and their reasoning? It's " overpowered" . When asked to present arguments and when they fail to present arguments or even to understand how mirage skills even work they resort to the argument

> "" ** it's not fun to play against ** "" . Well guess what - i don't have fun playing against all sorts of cheesy bs. Fun is subjective, i have fun playing vs CONDI mirages. (not power, power is a sea animal)

>

> I started off with warrior but due to mass QQ some mechanics were reworked and the class stopped being fun for me so i rerolled to elementalist which fell off cus anet really hates elementalists and they keep trying to make some tank elementalist instead just a proper mage nuker, then i rerolled to thief but i didn't like its role, then i rerolled to necro and to ranger and to engi and so on i ended up playing all classes

> mirage is the last class i rerolled to as a main (except rev which is the one class ive never played and most likely never will) . I actually like mirage, finally found a class that can do hybrid damage that doesn't insta die to necros or thieves. I like the concept and i like the gameplay but for some reason lower elo people won't shut up about how op the class is when in reality it's simply not true

>

> Mirage was the least represented class in the top rankings for the last 2 seasons on average and in general the class isn't that popular on higher elo

> Mirage isn't the best duelist in the game any more due to repeated nerfs and it loses to other classes which makes it obsolete as a duelist

> Mirage doesn't have the best dps in the game

> Mirage isn't the hardest to kill class in the game

>

> there are 2 types of condition mirage

> type 1 is with staff which gives access to more sustain and protection and vigor and type 2 is without staff which has more forceful damage

>

> type 1 - staff mirage - is outdated now because boonbeast exists. Staff projectiles are slow, staff doesn't have burst damage, staff doesn't have instant damage (or forceful damage as i call it cause you're not pressing anything) staff is mainly a on-point-utility/defensive weapon which is not oppressive. I guess why people cry about it is because of the auto attack/ illusion auto's bounces which apply conditions which are actually a huge source of damage for staff but it's slow . Staff's mirage cloak can fail easily because of how its programmed and it often just goes past the target

>

> type 2 - no staff mirage - no protection, usually no chaos so no vigor either which means you're incredibly squishy and can be punished super easily. You can and will get oneshot by random power bursts. Core guard standing on one place and using his own self heal and smite condi at the right moment with retaliation on 3 illusions can result in 18k damage in less than a second on me while he heals fully and that's a real thing. The upside is that it has more instant/forceful damage and in general can be oppressive but can also be shut down. It's high risk high reward. It also has mixed dmg so its harder to counter for some cause its both power and condi but at the same time it's much worse vs actual tanks cus you're splitting your dmg and they have easier time dealing with it.

>

> The reason why i'm making this thread is because mirage is the only class i like playing right now because i like playing condi and because necro is garbage since it has no stealth or mobility and it's too slow and those 2 are the only classes that work as condi since you destroyed/nerfed everything else cus some people don't understand the concept of condition removal.

> Mesmer already got nerfed way too many times - pretty much in **EVERY SINGLE PATCH** since last year's march which is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. The class is far from " the best class in the game ". It's not even top 3 best class in the game

>

> the most influential classes in the game are the ganker classes because of how ridiculous their burst dmg is right now and how uncounterable it is, if anything POWER MIRAGE is better than condi mirage because power damage has gotten way too high but the only difference is that sPvP is about point holding and power mirage's dmg is lower in close range and it also has lower sustain dps and that's why it looks like its worse but it's actually better ,it's simply a **different role** and people don't judge it as a different role which is their mistake

>

>

>

> so how do you decide that mirage is op if both high elo play rate and high elo ranking statistics don't support this claim

>

> it's not that mirage is overpowered, it's that mirage is a condi build that actually works and if other condi builds werent so severely nerfed for no reason they would be the same but anet keeps nerfing everything due to mass outcry because people can't put condi removal instead of quickness utilities and somehow that's the game's fault

>

> the class stopped being OP after the first 2 nerfs in 2018 which is now more than half a year ago.

>

> Everything a mirage does has counter - conditions have counter, its slow attacks have counter, illusions have counter mirage lacks a lot of things like unblockable attacks or stability boon or protection in almost all builds and none in utility skills. You know what has no counter? A class that can teleport with a 10k+ casted damage that needs no line of sight and can go up/down through elevations, through walls, with an unblockable attack that can't be reacted to because it's instant

> basically revenant or for the most part core guard and thief

>

> and that's why there are on average more of those 3 classes in top of the ladder than any other classes, because they are easy to execute with and hard to counter due to no cast time no line of sight teleports tied to a big burst damage nuke

>

> btw looking at low elo people's opinions on how to balance a game when they clearly can't play the game is like going to the local village to interview farmers on how a surgery should be done because you don't want to listen to actually trained people for how a surgery should be done and that's where they all resort to the argument that " fighting mirage is not fun"

> well fighting core guard is not fun either, fighting thief is not fun either, fightin revenant is not fun either, fighting bunkers is not fun either, fighting full zerker classes is not fun either

>

> how bout that? fun is subjective, i have fun when i fight condi mirages even if you don't. I'll agree that the class has toxic mechanics but compared to the rest of the game it's nothing out of place. The game has a lot of issues and a lot of toxic mechanics and if you're going to talk about them at least talk about all of them and not just the ones you don't like. Gw2 pvp could be improved a lot and that does include changing mirage but at the same time it includes changing a bunch of other classes and mechanics which are just as big and even bigger issues than mirage is

>

 

Hummm, you forgot to mention the absurdly more toxic that exists in gw2 "dodge while you are dazed, sunk, rejected" ... that only and exclusively has the profession to which you defend.

 

This guy plays mirage very well, you can go to see ;)

 

https://www.twitch.tv/tykolgw2/clip/ThirstyPiliableWerewolfBigBrother?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

 

[Reirli.3817]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Reirli.3817" said:

> > Mirage is a different story than the current Boonbeast build, Mirage as a whole is pretty powerful while Boonbeast is simply a build.

> >

> > Mirage is annoying to fight against, I don't care how much damage their confusion does or whatever they throw initially at me, I honestly don't care how many overbearing conditions they can inflict on me at once, I just want to be able to be given the luxury to actually hit them without being interrupted constantly by their distortion/reflection/break target/stealth&shadowstep. I want to be able to pick them off their clones if they mess up, my pick with mirage is that they're not only very offensive, but also very defensive. I honestly have no other qualms because they've been OP since the beginning of time, and that fact is just something we all have to live with.

> >

> > Sincerely, GS/LB ranger

>

> Boonbeast mains made up ranks 1,2,3, and 4 on NA last season. # 10 last season swapped to Boonbeast to climb during the last day of the season. I know 9 mained Deadeye but dunno about 5,6,7, and 8. Like get out of here if you don't think Boonbeast is clearly a problem.

 

I never said boonbeast wasn't powerful, the fact that i mentioned it meant that I was clearly aware that its one of the best and if not top 1v1 build right now. But if you read it carefully, I made the distinction that it was a build, and a build is not the same as a whole elite spec.

 

Aside from Mirage, the nature of mesmer has always been to be tricky and slippery, but I'm not a fan of the fact that mirages can evade, hide behind their clones, and also very much able to reflect projectiles with distortion..all while simultaneously move around and deal damage. I don't particularly think the movement mechanisms is OP, but its very annoying, and trying to take down a mirage is like trying to do a word search with soap in your eyes. They have as much strong qualities as the other classes except they can also clone themselves. Look I like mirage.. I play it both pvp and pve, its a fun class, but i do believe balance needs to be put where it belongs to go.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Susy.7529" said:

> I don't think I'm that bad of a player but while I can fight equally with most classes, I can't fight with mesmers, this must say something.

 

This is just conceited. If I can go toe to toe with anything on any class but for some reason struggle against revs and gaurds no matter how much I try does that now mean they are a problem and OP? Or is it only officially OP after it becomes an appeal to popularity and many vocal people struggle with it?

 

What if no matter how someone tries they can't pin down how, or when to pressure an ele and they keep healing up?

What if no matter how someone tries they cannot seem to avoid backstabs or snipes?

 

I guess it should all be nerfed because some people are inept.

 

> @"Susy.7529" said:

> Not everybody wants to learn as much, many people are just casuals who plays from time to time and don't have that much time investment to specifically learn the difficult ways to counter Mirages, still those people are a part of the community like you.

> If we were that bad agains every single classes we didn't deserve any attention, but only Mirage causes that much of a problem to us compared to other classes, so I think Mirage should be made clearer to fight against, like other classes are.

 

Mesmer has always been designed as a mind manipulation magical duelist class where you should be **forced to out play them to win.** This was only made a reality with Mirage since core was really simple so long as you could dodge a shatter, or read a quick burst combo you'd win. Now there are tools that means **both sides** have to out play each-other. You may find a mirage slippery, but realistically unless you're a necro you can be just as slippery to the mirage even on warrior, if you have any general idea of how mesmer works.

In reality at even skill level vs a mirage it can be a 50/50 (or 30/70 when hard countering them), if you know what you are doing, and can capitalize on a mirage's mistakes vs their ability to capitalize on yours. Sure, **Condi mirage does over perform and needs some reductions to it's offense**, I don't disagree on that; but bads will still complain because they haven't learned.

 

If this is to hard for casuals, they shouldn't PvP.

People who play Starcraft need to learn how to macro, People in melee have to learn to wave dash. In both cases they need to learn their matchups.

GW2 has other game types for varying degrees of skill levels for people to get involved with if they cannot keep up with sPvP.

(**"Dark were the skies and chilled was the wind, but the casuals cried so the nerfed the weather"** - Totalbiscuit)

 

But I guess by your logic casuals who cannot clear raids should be able to 5 man them in bad gear with bad builds without having to learn the encounters. On the basis that they are part of the community too. lol

 

Besides what do you intend? Nerf something that is already not over performing at high end despite it's over tuned condi output?

Make something completely counterable even easier to counter so people don't need to think? Might as well make it so you can see my footprints whenever I go invisible with thief, might as well show my initiative bar too. lol

 

It doesn't take that long to learn how, just get a mesmer to tutor you.

[incisorr.9502]

> @"Mathias.9657" said:

> Nukes are the least used bomb, they are obviously harmless dude.

 

i get what point you're trying to make but the example is really trash

 

you can't compare nukes to mirages, nukes have long-lasting environmental effects that affect even the user, on top of that everyone has nukes people don't use them cus if they do they'll die themselves as well

in gw2 if you use mirage then you'll be free elo unless you can actually play, bad mirages are the easiest people to kill in this game because the class either has no damage either fully relies on active defense, which requires skill and timing to pull off

my easiest matchup after necro (cus necro is useless and trash) is mirage and i often beat even plat 3+ mirages in 1v2 directly because of how much worse they are and because of how much skill mirage actually requires as long as you know the class