Guardian Staff Needs A Serious Rework (Suggestions)

[Aeolus.3615]

for sure they will only add barrier to staff auto or orb..... its ANet working on a defensive class while they want game to be offensive easy to play.

Anythign that is defensivly nowadays ended with damage at same time or some other easy gimmick to pull, guardian core is dammn outdated... to the existent spam.

[Daffan.8924]

A lot of weapons and their abilities are really clunky and bad.

 

Like the projectiles in this game are awful and some other stuff.

[Azoqu.8917]

> @Daffan.8924 said:

> A lot of weapons and their abilities are really clunky and bad.

>

> Like the projectiles in this game are awful and some other stuff.

 

Hey man, torch is perfectly fine! Just ignore the fact that it lets you roll-play a storm trooper and the other skill might as well not exist.

[Incarne.4927]

I have my fingers crossed for a proper staff update, and I hope that post wasn't just for the new specializations/ weapons but old weapons too.

[Kuya.6495]

I would really love it if they added some condition cleanse in staff so it synergizes with Bunker FB in pvp. At the moment, taking staff doesn't put out enough healing to make it worth being vulnerable to use. But with condi cleansing on it, it might be worth putting in rotation. Maybe have it cleanse 1 condition per tick on symbol of swiftness or cleanse 3 conditions on nearby allies when you detonate the orb on staff 2.

[OJPhoenix.8703]

I believe Staff 2 could become the new Staff 1. Throwing a damaging and healing projectile forward or at our current target would make a great auto-attack. Removed the detonation component, wouldn't even mind if the range dropped to 900 as long as the ability can be used without a target and actually functioned correctly over terrain, it'd be great.

 

This would give guardians a much desired ranged healing option as an alternative to the melee healing provided by the Mace.

 

Shuffling and adjusting Orb of Light to be the new auto-attack and removing Wave of Wrath opens up the options for a new skill entirely.

 

That said I do like OPs Suggestions, especially for Staff 2 and 5 as these would provide significant benefits over their current iterations. That said Staff 5 is pretty good and if the staff had say a new ability with a CC option more easily thrown at bosses that tend to stand still, that would also be great, even if it was only soft CC.

[sacredninja.5236]

> @draxynnic.3719 said:

> Personally, even if one accepts that 600 range was too long (something I'm still sceptical about) I think cutting it down to 300 was serious overkill. About the only thing staff is really useful now is Empower, to the point where guardian would possibly be a stronger profession if Staff was deleted and Empower made into a utility. 400-450 would probably be justifiable, but 300 on something which was designed as a standoff weapon is ridiculous.

 

Personally i would like the ranged to be increased back to 600, besides Empower and swiftness symbol the staff is now utter useless both in PvE and WvW!

 

 

[RabbitUp.8294]

Making staff a melee weapon was stupid. Actually autoattacking (outside of pve farming) only happened in wvw, and it was a way for the support builds to do some safe damage. Nobody is going to go into melee range with staff now, what happens is that frontliners use hammer and backline support either does no damage, or use mace, since both weapons put you into melee range, but mace gives you some defence.

 

They might as well remove the auto completely, it makes no difference, that'd effectively what they did.

 

And if pve farming was the problem, they could have reduced it to 450, since engineers have the same with the flamethrower.

[Svarty.8019]

> @Hellios.4108 said:

> Totally with you on this one.

>

> Right now Staff skills are clunky

 

DRINK!

#PoFClunkyDrinkingGame

[draxynnic.3719]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> And if pve farming was the problem, they could have reduced it to 450, since engineers have the same with the flamethrower.

 

425, but yes. This. Whatever argument there might be for having reduced the range in the first place - which, as I noted above, I am still sceptical about, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't a total dartboard nerf and the buffing of other skills suggests it wasn't a deliberate boonsmiting - skills with similar mechanics provide a precedent that 400-ish range for a skill of this type is okay. Nerfing it down to 300 was overkill by any measure.

[Incarne.4927]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> Nobody is going to go into melee range with staff now,

Very true

> ...what happens is that frontliners use hammer and backline support either does no damage, or use mace, since both weapons put you into melee range, but mace gives you some defence.

Yeah, the problem I have is people saying mace is a support weapon when it really isn't. It's more of a tank/ support hybrid but its support capabilities mainly benefit yourself. If someone happens to be nearby to benefit from that small ranged mace auto attack chain heal, then that's awesome... but that's not very often. I also never understood why mace 2 doesn't function as a blast finisher.

 

 

> @OJPhoenix.8703 said:

> I believe Staff 2 could become the new Staff 1.

>

> This would give guardians a much desired ranged healing option as an alternative to the melee healing provided by the Mace.

+1, but only if they make it not get canceled out by terrain and not require a target to be cast.

 

> @sacredninja.5236 said:

>

> ...besides Empower and swiftness symbol the staff is now utter useless both in PvE and WvW!

I have to agree. Empower is great, swiftness symbol could be better, but otherwise its a completely useless weapon in every aspect.

 

> @draxynnic.3719 said:

>About the only thing staff is really useful now is Empower, to the point where guardian would possibly be a stronger profession if Staff was deleted and Empower made into a utility.

That is actually an amazing idea, holy crap. Would allow me to finally get rid of bow of truth and the horrible radius and cast time it has for healing.

[GoZero.9708]

The Wave of Wrath change turned Guardian's staff from an at least reliable tool for tagging mobs and providing support for teammates in large groups to an Empower stick. The boon change made Symbol of Swiftness detrimental to swiftness stacking for your own team mates. Life of Warding is fine as is but the protection for people going over it for allies would be a great touch. Orb of Light is clunky and could benefit from that blast finisher. But all the issues comes back to the Waves of Wrath nerf. The 300 range change might have been necessary to prevent abuse but by Grenth it made it a worthless autoattack. The width increase DOES NOT make up for the range decrease and the skill was given no additional utility (something Guardians who want to see staff turned into a better support tool have been BEGGING FOR for years) to even attempt to makeup for the castration. It provides worse healing than mace, barely has any more range, provides worse boons, and prevent the usage of Guardian's excellent offhand weapons. In addition, it was the only range alternative besides Scepter to Guardian without Dragonhunter and now that Firebrand is shiny and new and without longbow, the deficiency of having to stick to Scepter for actual range attacking (and given that scepter is pretty well regarded as a weapon that's better at close range due to the finicky projectiles) is VERY noticeable.

 

tl;dr: improving wave of wrath is the key

[phor.7952]

I think just about everyone is in agreement that Staff is garbage right now.

 

They nerfed the range on Wave of Wrath and then gave us Tome of Justice #1?

It makes so little sense that my brain hurts.

 

I would like to see Staff #1 as either a short range AoE heal or a 1200 range single target damage to give core and firebrand a ranged option.

Detonate Orb needs to be a blast finisher.

With the weird way that swiftness stacks and caps now, it simply doesn't make sense to have swiftness on a symbol anymore. I'd like to see Staff #3 give Vigor or Stability or Resistance instead.

Empower is fine, and Line of Warding is fine.

[Brutaly.6257]

It was the quickness that FB brought that killed the staff. As i said before PoF launch just imagine the amount of burning you would be able to stack with the original staff and add quickness to that. It would have been seriously game breaking in a number of scenarios, primarily wvw.

 

With that said i think the change is awful, they destroyed the possibility for decent ranged aoe burning we had and made staff completely useless. Empower is just awful even in wvw since groups tend to move so i cant even call it an empower stick.

[GoZero.9708]

> @Brutaly.6257 said:

> It was the quickness that FB brought that killed the staff. As i said before PoF launch just imagine the amount of burning you would be able to stack with the original staff and add quickness to that. It would have been seriously game breaking in a number of scenarios, primarily wvw.

>

> With that said i think the change is awful, they destroyed the possibility for decent ranged aoe burning we had and made staff completely useless. Empower is just awful even in wvw since groups tend to move so i cant even call it an empower stick.

 

I can't envision how staff would be much worse than what already are Tome of Justice's options. Even if the range was still at 600 (which matches ToJ's 1 skill Searing Spell btw), Firebrands would still just stick to having Tome opens as much as possible (given Radiance's traits, that's not difficult at all) and rely on dropping to staff when they couldn't get a kill to recharge their Tome or to drop it just before a kill, pop Empower and maybe LoW or SoS, and go back to ToJ. I really don't see how Wave of Wrath factors into it.

[Daffan.8924]

> @sacredninja.5236 said:

> > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > Personally, even if one accepts that 600 range was too long (something I'm still sceptical about) I think cutting it down to 300 was serious overkill. About the only thing staff is really useful now is Empower, to the point where guardian would possibly be a stronger profession if Staff was deleted and Empower made into a utility. 400-450 would probably be justifiable, but 300 on something which was designed as a standoff weapon is ridiculous.

>

> Personally i would like the ranged to be increased back to 600, besides Empower and swiftness symbol the staff is now utter useless both in PvE and WvW!

>

>

 

Range on abilities is a big problem with this game. It means everyone has to stack on each other, or half the abilities/procs simply do not work and are wasted.

 

I mean, compare it too ... dare I say WoW. Their support/defensive spells are 40yard range, offensive 30yard. In Guild Wars 2, support spells are like 5yards and offensive is 20yards lmaooooooo. Now you cant make it too big in GW2 due to the wvw zerg nature, but come on it's horrible design. It means the visual clutter from stacking is also 10x worse.

[Incarne.4927]

> @Daffan.8924 said:

> > @sacredninja.5236 said:

> > > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > Personally, even if one accepts that 600 range was too long (something I'm still sceptical about) I think cutting it down to 300 was serious overkill. About the only thing staff is really useful now is Empower, to the point where guardian would possibly be a stronger profession if Staff was deleted and Empower made into a utility. 400-450 would probably be justifiable, but 300 on something which was designed as a standoff weapon is ridiculous.

> >

> > Personally i would like the ranged to be increased back to 600, besides Empower and swiftness symbol the staff is now utter useless both in PvE and WvW!

> >

> >

>

> Range on abilities is a big problem with this game. It means everyone has to stack on each other, or half the abilities/procs simply do not work and are wasted.

>

> I mean, compare it too ... dare I say WoW. Their support/defensive spells are 40yard range, offensive 30yard. In Guild Wars 2, support spells are like 5yards and offensive is 20yards lmaooooooo. Now you cant make it too big in GW2 due to the wvw zerg nature, but come on it's horrible design. It means the visual clutter from stacking is also 10x worse.

 

It is kinda annoying to be a melee support and not know where people are without viable and visible health bars. It really sucks sometimes....

[guildabd.6529]

Staff should be reworked into anti condi weapon. Also line of warding needs a nerf, it does not have line of sight check.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @GoZero.9708 said:

> > @Brutaly.6257 said:

> > It was the quickness that FB brought that killed the staff. As i said before PoF launch just imagine the amount of burning you would be able to stack with the original staff and add quickness to that. It would have been seriously game breaking in a number of scenarios, primarily wvw.

> >

> > With that said i think the change is awful, they destroyed the possibility for decent ranged aoe burning we had and made staff completely useless. Empower is just awful even in wvw since groups tend to move so i cant even call it an empower stick.

>

> I can't envision how staff would be much worse than what already are Tome of Justice's options. Even if the range was still at 600 (which matches ToJ's 1 skill Searing Spell btw), Firebrands would still just stick to having Tome opens as much as possible (given Radiance's traits, that's not difficult at all) and rely on dropping to staff when they couldn't get a kill to recharge their Tome or to drop it just before a kill, pop Empower and maybe LoW or SoS, and go back to ToJ. I really don't see how Wave of Wrath factors into it.

 

The only valid argument I've seen for the nerf was that Wave of Wrath can be used to shoot through doors in WvW. (A lot of people go on about "lootsticking", but a weapon being good for tagging is a _really_ bad reason to nerf it, particularly when half of the reason it was called a lootstick in the first place was the perception, justified or otherwise, that that was all it was good for...)

 

On the assumption that this was the reason, then the distinction is probably that you can Wave of Wrath through a door indefinitely. You can't Tome of Justice through a door indefinitely, though - you only get so many shots until the tome runs out and goes on cooldown. Granted, if you have Radiance traited and get a kill it will refresh, but I imagine that actually securing a kill through a door using Tome of Justice (specifically, with the actual kill being scored _after_ the tome has gone on cooldown) is probably hard enough to pull off that ArenaNet feels that if you do manage it, you've earned it.

[Loboling.5293]

Staff 1: The skill needs some healing added imo. Similar to mace.

Staff 2: Cleanse 1 condition on pass, and 1 on burst.

Staff 3: Pretty decent skill. (Reduce cooldown?)

Staff 4: Should provide 1 stack of stability in aoe on cast. and 1 second of resistance on finish. And maybe improve the healing slightly.

Staff 5: Good skill, maybe decrease the cooldown a little. (Or change it to a circle, like sanctuary)

[GoZero.9708]

> @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > @GoZero.9708 said:

> > > @Brutaly.6257 said:

> > > It was the quickness that FB brought that killed the staff. As i said before PoF launch just imagine the amount of burning you would be able to stack with the original staff and add quickness to that. It would have been seriously game breaking in a number of scenarios, primarily wvw.

> > >

> > > With that said i think the change is awful, they destroyed the possibility for decent ranged aoe burning we had and made staff completely useless. Empower is just awful even in wvw since groups tend to move so i cant even call it an empower stick.

> >

> > I can't envision how staff would be much worse than what already are Tome of Justice's options. Even if the range was still at 600 (which matches ToJ's 1 skill Searing Spell btw), Firebrands would still just stick to having Tome opens as much as possible (given Radiance's traits, that's not difficult at all) and rely on dropping to staff when they couldn't get a kill to recharge their Tome or to drop it just before a kill, pop Empower and maybe LoW or SoS, and go back to ToJ. I really don't see how Wave of Wrath factors into it.

>

> The only valid argument I've seen for the nerf was that Wave of Wrath can be used to shoot through doors in WvW. (A lot of people go on about "lootsticking", but a weapon being good for tagging is a _really_ bad reason to nerf it, particularly when half of the reason it was called a lootstick in the first place was the perception, justified or otherwise, that that was all it was good for...)

>

> On the assumption that this was the reason, then the distinction is probably that you can Wave of Wrath through a door indefinitely. You can't Tome of Justice through a door indefinitely, though - you only get so many shots until the tome runs out and goes on cooldown. Granted, if you have Radiance traited and get a kill it will refresh, but I imagine that actually securing a kill through a door using Tome of Justice (specifically, with the actual kill being scored _after_ the tome has gone on cooldown) is probably hard enough to pull off that ArenaNet feels that if you do manage it, you've earned it.

 

Maybe the issue there that needs to be fixed is the capacity to attack invaders through gates at all.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

..> @Daffan.8924 said:

> > @sacredninja.5236 said:

> > > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > Personally, even if one accepts that 600 range was too long (something I'm still sceptical about) I think cutting it down to 300 was serious overkill. About the only thing staff is really useful now is Empower, to the point where guardian would possibly be a stronger profession if Staff was deleted and Empower made into a utility. 400-450 would probably be justifiable, but 300 on something which was designed as a standoff weapon is ridiculous.

> >

> > Personally i would like the ranged to be increased back to 600, besides Empower and swiftness symbol the staff is now utter useless both in PvE and WvW!

> >

> >

>

> Range on abilities is a big problem with this game. It means everyone has to stack on each other, or half the abilities/procs simply do not work and are wasted.

>

> I mean, compare it too ... dare I say WoW. Their support/defensive spells are 40yard range, offensive 30yard. In Guild Wars 2, support spells are like 5yards and offensive is 20yards lmaooooooo. Now you cant make it too big in GW2 due to the wvw zerg nature, but come on it's horrible design. It means the visual clutter from stacking is also 10x worse.

 

Game is ment to be extremmely easy, designed for players that are not good just be efficient with the gimmicks and a try to shorted the gap between bad and good players at the max possible with the easy damage output, its not a game towards team play and skill.

 

 

For sure ANet will had barrier to staff orb or empower.... and change a little bit the range form auto to 400....

 

I would not mind if staff got removed and re-added on the next expantion, BUUT in exchange they would allow guard to equip hammer-shield with armor boost so we can push in mellee range from the aoe spam, theres to much aoe spam and red circles and nothing to push....

 

Hammer+Shield and a bit of resistance and barrier build would make sense ._. on the current AOE spam noob friendly cancerous meta...

 

preserve the 3 first hammer skills + shield, make hammer auto 3 apply minor barrier with the protection, give barrier pulses while SoA dome is up.

reduce hammer damage by 10% when use with offhand....

[Brutaly.6257]

> @GoZero.9708 said:

> > @Brutaly.6257 said:

> > It was the quickness that FB brought that killed the staff. As i said before PoF launch just imagine the amount of burning you would be able to stack with the original staff and add quickness to that. It would have been seriously game breaking in a number of scenarios, primarily wvw.

> >

> > With that said i think the change is awful, they destroyed the possibility for decent ranged aoe burning we had and made staff completely useless. Empower is just awful even in wvw since groups tend to move so i cant even call it an empower stick.

>

> I can't envision how staff would be much worse than what already are Tome of Justice's options. Even if the range was still at 600 (which matches ToJ's 1 skill Searing Spell btw), Firebrands would still just stick to having Tome opens as much as possible (given Radiance's traits, that's not difficult at all) and rely on dropping to staff when they couldn't get a kill to recharge their Tome or to drop it just before a kill, pop Empower and maybe LoW or SoS, and go back to ToJ. I really don't see how Wave of Wrath factors into it.

 

if you played condi frontliner with staff in wvw before PoF was released i believe its rather easy to understand what i mean. FB/quickness would have increased the burning with 33% and add ashes of the just on top of that and it would have been, well, not very balanced.

[phor.7952]

@"Brutaly.6257" but his point is that Tome of Justice #1 is just as strong as what you're claiming would have been OP about Staff.

Sure, it requires Renewed Justice procs in order to "spam" it, but it's a 600 range cone AoE that hits the same number of targets as Staff #1, does more direct damage per hit, and applies a longer duration burning on EVERY hit (instead of every 3-5 hits like Staff would). In that regard, it's even stronger than what you're claiming would have been overpowered with the old Staff #1.

[Opopanax.1803]

I never liked staff 1. It needs to be a ranged attack and bring staff into the ranged weapon category.