Guardian Staff Needs A Serious Rework (Suggestions)

[xDudisx.5914]

Staff 1: change range to 450.

Staff 2: become aoe ground target.

Staff 4: be able to cast moving. Can be reduced speed, but needs to be able to move and cast.

[Incarne.4927]

Nothing changed about Guardian staff, but hey at least they buffed mantra aoes... I think it's safe to say this change will never happen and we'll have to just deal with how crappy staff is. Was fun, but I give up. Gonna take a break from the game and maybe in the future there will be some major changes.

[Alehin.3746]

Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Zenith.7301]

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

They do in PvE.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Since it's garbage in all three game modes, staff needs something rather than nothing though and considering that it is supposed to be a ranged support weapon by original design, adding healing to it is a sensible move.

[Alehin.3746]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>

> They do in PvE.

 

Nope. Specially now that grace of the land is gone.

 

> @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>

> Since it's garbage in all three game modes, staff needs something rather than nothing though and considering that it is supposed to be a ranged support weapon by original design, adding healing to it is a sensible move.

 

Not garbage in PvP and WvW. Not the best in PvE. Thats it.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> >

> > They do in PvE.

>

> Nope. Specially now that grace of the land is gone.

 

New GotL means druid will be the might stacker of choice. And they still have spirits.

 

Guardian provides nothing chrono and druid can't do better, so good luck with that. At least tempest and revenant have extreme amounts of healing compared to druid, but yeah, keep drinking anet's kool-aid.

 

And those changes to mantras are meaningless. They are still way too short.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @Alehin.3746 said:

 

> Not garbage in PvP and WvW. Not the best in PvE. Thats it.

 

You could change out staff for x/focus (or x/shield if that's not already your offhand set) and you would notice no difference in sustain, offensive pressure, CCs or overall survivability other than perhaps improvements to them.

 

For WvW it is most definitely garbage. It's essentially a melee weapon that outputs mediocre heals to allies, doesn't do any damage and has a slow, obvious and undertuned CC. There's a reason that the meta now is hammer and mace/sh or mace/x.

 

Oh wait, staff is kind of useful outside of combat to give yourself maybe 4-6 seconds of might before equipping another weapon in place of it or to give yourself/allies 3s of swiftness. Super. Freakin. Useful. I forgot, my bad.

 

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> Not garbage in PvP and WvW. Not the best in PvE. Thats it.

 

You could change out staff for x/focus (or x/shield if that's not already your offhand set) and you would notice no difference in sustain, offensive pressure, CCs or overall survivability other than perhaps improvements to them.

 

For WvW it is most definitely garbage. It's essentially a melee weapon that outputs mediocre heals to allies, doesn't do any damage and has a slow, obvious and undertuned CC. There's a reason that the meta now is hammer and mace/sh or mace/focus.

 

Oh wait, staff is kind of useful outside of combat to give yourself maybe 4-6 seconds of might before equipping another weapon in place of it or to give yourself/allies 3s of swiftness. Super. Freakin. Useful. I forgot, my bad.

 

 

[Alehin.3746]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > > Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> > >

> > > They do in PvE.

> >

> > Nope. Specially now that grace of the land is gone.

>

> New GotL means druid will be the might stacker of choice. And they still have spirits.

Yep, but it's just might stacking. Means we can have other classes doing it, like scourge, renegade and berserker. Not sure if they will just replace PS tho, empower allies, high personal dps, high cc and banners are just too good.

> Guardian provides nothing chrono and druid can't do better, so good luck with that.

Guardian provides fun and good healing per second, thats more than enough to me.

>At least tempest and revenant have extreme amounts of healing compared to druid, but yeah, keep drinking anet's kool-aid.

Iirc we agreed that we don't even need healers in raids, so why are you even using this as an argument? Also, you're wrong. Don't be salty because you didn't get what you wanted.

> And those changes to mantras are meaningless. They are still way too short.

Better than "healing on staff 1" in my opinion. I'm happy with the changes. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Alehin.3746]

> @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> > @Alehin.3746 said:

>

> > Not garbage in PvP and WvW. Not the best in PvE. Thats it.

>

> You could change out staff for x/focus (or x/shield if that's not already your offhand set) and you would notice no difference in sustain, offensive pressure, CCs or overall survivability other than perhaps improvements to them.

I'm sorry but if you need focus as a support you're just doing it wrong. I play WvW with mace+shield staff and it works. Try not getting caught by bubbles and bombs.

> For WvW it is most definitely garbage. It's essentially a melee weapon that outputs mediocre heals to allies, doesn't do any damage and has a slow, obvious and undertuned CC. There's a reason that the meta now is hammer and mace/sh or mace/x.

> Oh wait, staff is kind of useful outside of combat to give yourself maybe 4-6 seconds of might before equipping another weapon in place of it or to give yourself/allies 3s of swiftness. Super. Freakin. Useful. I forgot, my bad.

4~6 seconds? https://i.imgur.com/7eTeiGi.png

Staff is great for resets and might stacking. You don't need more healing than what FB already have, they didn't even get nerfed in this balance patch.

 

I completely agree that staff changes would be cool, but **guardian doesn't need more healing**. I'm sorry but if you're struggling so badly that you need a constant source of healing on staff 1, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> > @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> >

> > > Not garbage in PvP and WvW. Not the best in PvE. Thats it.

> >

> > You could change out staff for x/focus (or x/shield if that's not already your offhand set) and you would notice no difference in sustain, offensive pressure, CCs or overall survivability other than perhaps improvements to them.

> I'm sorry but if you need focus as a support you're just doing it wrong. I play WvW with mace+shield staff and it works. Try not getting caught by bubbles and bombs.

 

Oh it's not for support, it's for self sustain/offence. Pair it with sword and hey, you got some mobility. In pvp I've found sword/focus proves far more useful in team fights than staff does and also helps me get around more easily. When bunkering 1v1 or 1v2, staff didn't seem to help much compared to x/focus. Also, if I wanna beef up my offence a bit, x/focus is a far better choice since it can actually deal damage.

 

> > For WvW it is most definitely garbage. It's essentially a melee weapon that outputs mediocre heals to allies, doesn't do any damage and has a slow, obvious and undertuned CC. There's a reason that the meta now is hammer and mace/sh or mace/x.

> > Oh wait, staff is kind of useful outside of combat to give yourself maybe 4-6 seconds of might before equipping another weapon in place of it or to give yourself/allies 3s of swiftness. Super. Freakin. Useful. I forgot, my bad.

> 4~6 seconds? https://i.imgur.com/7eTeiGi.png

> Staff is great for resets and might stacking. You don't need more healing than what FB already have, they didn't even get nerfed in this balance patch.

Yes, 4-6 seconds. No one empowers as the enemy is attacking, they empower well before-hand. So you empower, and about 5-6 seconds later, you're finally in combat. Your 17s might stacks example there is cherry-picking and also is a very bad argument for why empower is useful since no weapon should require a very specific build to just barely be viable. Weapons have to have a solid foundation which staff absolutely does not. For someone who is not specialized in healing power or boon duration, staff offers mediocre boon support, abysmal damage, low healing, no sustain, no mobility and a negligable CC.

 

 

> I completely agree that staff changes would be cool, but **guardian doesn't need more healing**. I'm sorry but if you're struggling so badly that you need a constant source of healing on staff 1, you're doing something wrong.

 

I would agree that guard doesn't really need more healing (be it on staff 1, or what have you) but if they were to place healing on staff 1, I don't think we'd see anyone complaining. Staff needs love. I'd like to see major reworks but we all know Anet isn't a fan of doing that to weapon skills (at least not frequently). Pretty much anything would be welcome for staff since you can't really make it much worse than it currently is.

 

 

[Alehin.3746]

> @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> > > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > >

> > > > Not garbage in PvP and WvW. Not the best in PvE. Thats it.

> > >

> > > You could change out staff for x/focus (or x/shield if that's not already your offhand set) and you would notice no difference in sustain, offensive pressure, CCs or overall survivability other than perhaps improvements to them.

> > I'm sorry but if you need focus as a support you're just doing it wrong. I play WvW with mace+shield staff and it works. Try not getting caught by bubbles and bombs.

>

> Oh it's not for support, it's for self sustain/offence. Pair it with sword and hey, you got some mobility. In pvp I've found sword/focus proves far more useful in team fights than staff does and also helps me get around more easily. When bunkering 1v1 or 1v2, staff didn't seem to help much compared to x/focus. Also, if I wanna beef up my offence a bit, x/focus is a far better choice since it can actually deal damage.

You don't need more "self sustain" or offense as a healing FB, dude. The spec is overpowered as fuck, you literally can't die if people don't focus you down. And yes, sword is a good option for getting around quickly, but you're giving up on heals and CC from staff.

> > > For WvW it is most definitely garbage. It's essentially a melee weapon that outputs mediocre heals to allies, doesn't do any damage and has a slow, obvious and undertuned CC. There's a reason that the meta now is hammer and mace/sh or mace/x.

> > > Oh wait, staff is kind of useful outside of combat to give yourself maybe 4-6 seconds of might before equipping another weapon in place of it or to give yourself/allies 3s of swiftness. Super. Freakin. Useful. I forgot, my bad.

> > 4~6 seconds? https://i.imgur.com/7eTeiGi.png

> > Staff is great for resets and might stacking. You don't need more healing than what FB already have, they didn't even get nerfed in this balance patch.

> Yes, 4-6 seconds. No one empowers as the enemy is attacking, they empower well before-hand. So you empower, and about 5-6 seconds later, you're finally in combat. Your 17s might stacks example there is cherry-picking and also is a very bad argument for why empower is useful since no weapon should require a very specific build to just barely be viable. Weapons have to have a solid foundation which staff absolutely does not. For someone who is not specialized in healing power or boon duration, staff offers mediocre boon support, abysmal damage, low healing, no sustain, no mobility and a negligable CC.

Why you're not using empower while the enemy is attacking? Yeah, you're not supposed to stand still in the same place and get murdered (speaking about WvW, because you can't die while doing this in PvP) but you definitively use it whenever you can to keep your team healthy and with high might stacks, specially when theres no eles to provide fire and water fields. Also 17 seconds means 17 seconds, it's not the weapon's fault if you're using it too early.

 

"Builds that aren't specialized in healing and boon duration have shitty healing and boon duration", yes, thank god for that, and i hope ANet nerf healing and boons in all classes to help reduce the ammount of sustain we have in the game. Why can't you build like a support to support people just like you spec damage to do damage? Line of warding is not a bad CC, specially in small places, the problem is that everyone have a lot of stability during PvP and WvW fights (firebrand and guards lol), so you will never see it working. Also, the staff damage used to come from wave of wrath proccing permeating wrath every hit from 600 range, and thats why it got nerfed. It's a support weapon, it's not supposed to be dealing massive damage.

 

> > I completely agree that staff changes would be cool, but **guardian doesn't need more healing**. I'm sorry but if you're struggling so badly that you need a constant source of healing on staff 1, you're doing something wrong.

>

> I would agree that guard doesn't really need more healing (be it on staff 1, or what have you) but if they were to place healing on staff 1, I don't think we'd see anyone complaining. Staff needs love. I'd like to see major reworks but we all know Anet isn't a fan of doing that to weapon skills (at least not frequently). Pretty much anything would be welcome for staff since you can't really make it much worse than it currently is.

 

Then just make it a ranged AoE condi weapon. I rather watch staff become like ele's staff, but with AoE condi skills and fields, instead of just putting more healing into the game, specially on a class that is overperforming support-wise.

[Dragonhero.1852]

Yes please, anything that makes Guardian staff from incredibly boring farming weapon, to interesting support weapon I am all for!

 

I have hated Guard Staff since launch, and have always felt it should be Guards primary support weapon, but ever time anyone asked to have the weapon reworked, people would start complaining about wanting to keep it as is for farming in open world and WvW. It frustrating.

[Arcaedus.7290]

For the sake of brevity, there is only one thing you said here that I'd like to respond to:

 

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> Then just make it a ranged AoE condi weapon. I rather watch staff become like ele's staff, but with AoE condi skills and fields, instead of just putting more healing into the game, specially on a class that is overperforming support-wise.

 

Yeah, this would be fantastic. I'd much rather have this than some garbage healing on staff 1 because lets be honest, the way Anet would design it, the heal would be double-digits if you had 0 healing power, aka completely worthless to non-healing power builds and practically negligible to 1400 healing power builds (probably would go from healing 60 --> healing 240). However, if you support reworks, buffs and changes to staff, don't discourage them because you think it's a bad suggestion. That sends the message of "No, don't add X, I think staff is fine." even though your message really is "Staff needs reworks, don't add X, add Y instead."

 

[draxynnic.3719]

> @Dragonhero.1852 said:

> Yes please, anything that makes Guardian staff from incredibly boring farming weapon, to interesting support weapon I am all for!

>

> I have hated Guard Staff since launch, and have always felt it should be Guards primary support weapon, but ever time anyone asked to have the weapon reworked, people would start complaining about wanting to keep it as is for farming in open world and WvW. It frustrating.

 

You assume that just because people disagree with you it's only because lootstick...

 

Staff was a unique weapon - it was a hybrid between a flamethrower-type playstyle while still having long-range support options. This is, I think, a useful thing to have in the game. It was also good for situations where you needed to kill lots of enemies with low health, including things that don't grant experience and therefore don't trigger Renewed Justice for Tome of Justice. Examples can include the flowers in Twilight Arbor and the bomb golems in CoE.

 

Nowadays, of course, it's just uniquely useless.

[Svarty.8019]

I can't see Anet changing staff again after having done so only a couple of patches ago. They have to think about their reputation and they're currently suffering embarrassment having **flip flopped** Deathly Chill on Necromancer back to it's previous numbers.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > > > Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> > > >

> > > > They do in PvE.

> > >

> > > Nope. Specially now that grace of the land is gone.

> >

> > New GotL means druid will be the might stacker of choice. And they still have spirits.

> Yep, but it's just might stacking. Means we can have other classes doing it, like scourge, renegade and berserker. Not sure if they will just replace PS tho, empower allies, high personal dps, high cc and banners are just too good.

 

Except that druid stacks for 10 people, which makes it twice as effective as any other stacker, except Deadeye, who offers nothing else besides that, so it hardly counts as competition.

 

So, yes, druid will replace cPS as a build, while Berserker will play pure dps.

 

> > Guardian provides nothing chrono and druid can't do better, so good luck with that.

> Guardian provides fun and good healing per second, thats more than enough to me.

 

Entirely subjective. The good healing per second can be calculated, and no, it's not good at all.

 

> >At least tempest and revenant have extreme amounts of healing compared to druid, but yeah, keep drinking anet's kool-aid.

> Iirc we agreed that we don't even need healers in raids, so why are you even using this as an argument? Also, you're wrong. Don't be salty because you didn't get what you wanted.

 

"You are wrong, because I said so".

 

I'm not doing this again. What was it that I wanted? Firebrand being less garbage? I knew I wasn't going to get that from the beginning.

 

> > And those changes to mantras are meaningless. They are still way too short.

> Better than "healing on staff 1" in my opinion. I'm happy with the changes. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Some of us have standards.

 

 

> @Alehin.3746 said:

> You don't need more "self sustain" or offense as a healing FB, dude. The spec is overpowered as kitten, you literally can't die if people don't focus you down.

 

"You can't die, if you are not attacked". You don't say?

 

[Alehin.3746]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > > > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > > > > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > > > > > Guardian don't need more healing to be a good support. I'll take those changes to mantras over staff 1 heal anyday, but whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> > > > >

> > > > > They do in PvE.

> > > >

> > > > Nope. Specially now that grace of the land is gone.

> > >

> > > New GotL means druid will be the might stacker of choice. And they still have spirits.

> > Yep, but it's just might stacking. Means we can have other classes doing it, like scourge, renegade and berserker. Not sure if they will just replace PS tho, empower allies, high personal dps, high cc and banners are just too good.

>

> Except that druid stacks for 10 people, which makes it twice as effective as any other stacker, except Deadeye, who offers nothing else besides that, so it hardly counts as competition.

> So, yes, druid will replace cPS as a build, while Berserker will play pure dps.

Yep. Wonder if they will keep 10-man might stacking or nerf it to 5 targets.

> > > Guardian provides nothing chrono and druid can't do better, so good luck with that.

> > Guardian provides fun and good healing per second, thats more than enough to me.

>

> Entirely subjective. The good healing per second can be calculated, and no, it's not good at all.

> At least tempest and revenant have extreme amounts of healing compared to druid, but yeah, keep drinking anet's kool-aid.

Clearly haven't played heal FB or even core guard. Try it for yourself before speaking, please.

> > Iirc we agreed that we don't even need healers in raids, so why are you even using this as an argument? Also, you're wrong. Don't be salty because you didn't get what you wanted.

>

> "You are wrong, because I said so".

No, you're wrong because you're being unfair / speaking about something you don't have enough experience with.

> I'm not doing this again. What was it that I wanted? Firebrand being less garbage? I knew I wasn't going to get that from the beginning.

Then ask for significant changes and stop crying because anet didn't give you 200~600 healing on staff 1.

> > > And those changes to mantras are meaningless. They are still way too short.

> > Better than "healing on staff 1" in my opinion. I'm happy with the changes. Different strokes for different folks.

>

> Some of us have standards.

Oh? Standards? You mean "If anet doesn't buff/nerf what i like/don't like, they suck!" Thing? You can have that.

>

> > @Alehin.3746 said:

> > You don't need more "self sustain" or offense as a healing FB, dude. The spec is overpowered as kitten, you literally can't die if people don't focus you down.

>

> "You can't die, if you are not attacked". You don't say?

**Focused**. I mean multiple enemy team members attacking you at the same time, so they take you down/pressure you out of the fight so you can't provide support to their squishies. I know my english isn't the best, but don't pretend i said X instead of Y.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

i fear Anet migh add barrier on staff instead a core class mechanic :\

 

Besides empower most skills on the weapon are useless, Anet needs really to find a role for the weapon rather than only change skills quoficients :\

[Alehin.3746]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> i fear Anet migh add barrier on staff instead a core class mechanic :\

>

> Besides empower most skills on the weapon are useless, Anet needs really to find a role for the weapon rather than only change skills quoficients :\

 

I can imagine anet changing empower's heal to barrier and pissing off everyone LMAO

[Tongku.5326]

I literally just hate staff now. Even in groups whenever people want empower + symbol from staff 3 I ask them if they could live without it and tell them how much and why I hate it. Most of the time they are cool about it and things end up being fine.

 

Not quite sure what changes I would like to see specifically that haven't been mentioned here or other places already, but it needs more offense. In its current state it feels to me like just a couple more utility slots, not a weapon, feels like a complete waste of a weapon slot. It was a crappy weapon to begin with except the "lootstick" effect of it, once that got super nerfed it is completely useless for offense.

 

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

I like staff 1 as it is because it allows us to apply Burning in a cone every few attack (number of attacks depends on having a specific trait). I think that staff and trident should swap some of their weapon abilities between themselves, namely empower with pillar of light and orb of light with purifying blast.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

> @"Jack Skywalker.5674" said:

> I like staff 1 as it is because it allows us to apply Burning in a cone every few attack (number of attacks depends on having a specific trait). I think that staff and trident should swap some of their weapon abilities between themselves, namely empower with pillar of light and orb of light with purifying blast.

 

I am sorry for the double post but I just realized I said something stupid. Empower should swap places with Ray of Judgement from Focus because Shield of Wrath from Focus actualy synergises with Empower.

[GoZero.9708]

Funny how our new mantras had to immediately be buffed because the range on the abilities was lacking and therefore considered unwieldy and difficult to use for something that applies over a short distance... what was the range before the patch again? 300? Sounds familiar...