Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > another solution, make it only available when you are out of stealth, because it seems some people are really sensitive when one says "reveal". > > > its not much a problem with reveal as such but more with the reasoning. we both agree that the skill is too powerfull to be invisble while cast from stealth. however the proposed solution is not 'make it visible', but make it not unusable while stealthed/revealing. why is a visible animation not enough to ask for, when the issue seems to be that the animation is hidden, why do you further have to interfere on the **deadeyes gameplay** part of that situation? > > > > > > > **Deadeyes gameplay** you mean being in stealth 90% of the time? well yeah I don't care if I have to interfere as long as the spec becomes healthier because right now it isn't. > > Also I don't think they know or can make what you want so that's why I recommend to either do the reveal or simply make it only available out of stealth. > > exactly that is the problem: you dont care for the deadeye, only for its opponent. but the opponent is still only one half of the encounter. making suggestions that only keep in mind the opponent is the reason why most suggestion on this forum for any class are terribly bad. > > and again assuming incompetence on anets part.. :3 Don't even bother responding to his dishonest claims. Being 90% in stealth means you're only doing damage 10% of the time, which is moronic to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > Binding Shadow can actually be stopped. And it requires line of sight. If the player recognizes the animation on the de- they can outright avoid it with a dodge, line of sight, or aegis. As it stands theres no other tell which is actually a problem. The opponent should have a clear indication that hes about to go down so he has a chance. It does not need to be for the full duration. But a quick animation of a gust of shadow magic swarming the target at the last second should be enough. > > > > > > > > > Basilisk venom is completely unblockable, does not get expended if the target dodges, and can be used at all ranges as long as you deal power damage. It even works with DE mark/mug combo. Previously it was utterly useless. Now its one of the thiefs strongest utilities. As its one of two options a thief has to break through a targets defense. The other being S/d which is not a popular weapon set for some pretty good reasons. > > > > > > The basilisk venom also has venom share, which is a critical property in PvP and PvE. A roaming thief can actually dive in, pop basilisk venom, and spontaneously give his group a huge advantage in a single second. More so if they went aupport build with leeching venoms. > > > > the problem with this skill is when you use it from stealth, it has 0 counterplay if you can't see the animation > > Not true. Binding shadow deals damage which will automatically reveals the Thief. Even if you didn't see the animation, the reveal gives you a window for counter play. > > > and deadeyes usually combine that + mark with DJ so it's a really poweful combo that literally requires 0 brain cells to execute, just go in stealth and nobody will know. > > > > Have you ever pulled off this said "really powerful" combo? I doubt it. If you have, you won't say that it "literally requires 0 brain cells". > > It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot. Saying that it requires 0 brain cells sounds like you can just randomly swing a hammer and you'll eventually build yourself a house. lol. > > If you want to be taken seriously, don't misrepresent and don't be dishonest. > > > another solution, make it only available when you are out of stealth, because it seems some people are really sensitive when one says "reveal". > > I can tell that you have not played a Thief. Do you even realize that a Thief can stealth, wait 3s for stealth to be over, cast Binding, then dodge to stealth again? You will only see that Thief in a split second just to cast Binding then poof, they're gone again. > > Besides, why are you egging on Binding when DJ is the one killing you? The new iteration of DJ was toxic when it was unblockable and it is still toxic even when it is blockable. It just deals so much damage for a ranged skill. The original DJ was better and the only problem with it was the kneel requirement. after few tries i managed to pull it out with 80% of succes. the key is to press ur buttons as fast as possible :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 > @"Xenji.4907" said: > I just need some insight on what is going on with Anet... Seriously. I love this game and I love thief but the balancing doesn't make any sense and leave people guessing and trying their hardest to rationalise it. Lol the first mistake is trying to rationalize what ANet was thinking with the PoF specs. If they took a rational approach to the DE it wouldn't exist at all. > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. You mentioned the big bad R word. Shame on you for being punishable and wanting to play at a high speed with lots of skill expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > Binding Shadow can actually be stopped. And it requires line of sight. If the player recognizes the animation on the de- they can outright avoid it with a dodge, line of sight, or aegis. As it stands theres no other tell which is actually a problem. The opponent should have a clear indication that hes about to go down so he has a chance. It does not need to be for the full duration. But a quick animation of a gust of shadow magic swarming the target at the last second should be enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > Basilisk venom is completely unblockable, does not get expended if the target dodges, and can be used at all ranges as long as you deal power damage. It even works with DE mark/mug combo. Previously it was utterly useless. Now its one of the thiefs strongest utilities. As its one of two options a thief has to break through a targets defense. The other being S/d which is not a popular weapon set for some pretty good reasons. > > > > > > > > The basilisk venom also has venom share, which is a critical property in PvP and PvE. A roaming thief can actually dive in, pop basilisk venom, and spontaneously give his group a huge advantage in a single second. More so if they went aupport build with leeching venoms. > > > > > > the problem with this skill is when you use it from stealth, it has 0 counterplay if you can't see the animation > > > > Not true. Binding shadow deals damage which will automatically reveals the Thief. Even if you didn't see the animation, the reveal gives you a window for counter play. > > > > > and deadeyes usually combine that + mark with DJ so it's a really poweful combo that literally requires 0 brain cells to execute, just go in stealth and nobody will know. > > > > > > > Have you ever pulled off this said "really powerful" combo? I doubt it. If you have, you won't say that it "literally requires 0 brain cells". > > > > It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot. Saying that it requires 0 brain cells sounds like you can just randomly swing a hammer and you'll eventually build yourself a house. lol. > > > > If you want to be taken seriously, don't misrepresent and don't be dishonest. > > > > > another solution, make it only available when you are out of stealth, because it seems some people are really sensitive when one says "reveal". > > > > I can tell that you have not played a Thief. Do you even realize that a Thief can stealth, wait 3s for stealth to be over, cast Binding, then dodge to stealth again? You will only see that Thief in a split second just to cast Binding then poof, they're gone again. > > > > Besides, why are you egging on Binding when DJ is the one killing you? The new iteration of DJ was toxic when it was unblockable and it is still toxic even when it is blockable. It just deals so much damage for a ranged skill. The original DJ was better and the only problem with it was the kneel requirement. > > after few tries i managed to pull it out with 80% of succes. the key is to press ur buttons as fast as possible :> You're doing it wrong. You're not suppose to use more than 0 brain cells. Which means, a person in a coma can do it better than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elxdark.9702 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > Binding Shadow can actually be stopped. And it requires line of sight. If the player recognizes the animation on the de- they can outright avoid it with a dodge, line of sight, or aegis. As it stands theres no other tell which is actually a problem. The opponent should have a clear indication that hes about to go down so he has a chance. It does not need to be for the full duration. But a quick animation of a gust of shadow magic swarming the target at the last second should be enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basilisk venom is completely unblockable, does not get expended if the target dodges, and can be used at all ranges as long as you deal power damage. It even works with DE mark/mug combo. Previously it was utterly useless. Now its one of the thiefs strongest utilities. As its one of two options a thief has to break through a targets defense. The other being S/d which is not a popular weapon set for some pretty good reasons. > > > > > > > > > > The basilisk venom also has venom share, which is a critical property in PvP and PvE. A roaming thief can actually dive in, pop basilisk venom, and spontaneously give his group a huge advantage in a single second. More so if they went aupport build with leeching venoms. > > > > > > > > the problem with this skill is when you use it from stealth, it has 0 counterplay if you can't see the animation > > > > > > Not true. Binding shadow deals damage which will automatically reveals the Thief. Even if you didn't see the animation, the reveal gives you a window for counter play. > > > > > > > and deadeyes usually combine that + mark with DJ so it's a really poweful combo that literally requires 0 brain cells to execute, just go in stealth and nobody will know. > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever pulled off this said "really powerful" combo? I doubt it. If you have, you won't say that it "literally requires 0 brain cells". > > > > > > It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot. Saying that it requires 0 brain cells sounds like you can just randomly swing a hammer and you'll eventually build yourself a house. lol. > > > > > > If you want to be taken seriously, don't misrepresent and don't be dishonest. > > > > > > > another solution, make it only available when you are out of stealth, because it seems some people are really sensitive when one says "reveal". > > > > > > I can tell that you have not played a Thief. Do you even realize that a Thief can stealth, wait 3s for stealth to be over, cast Binding, then dodge to stealth again? You will only see that Thief in a split second just to cast Binding then poof, they're gone again. > > > > > > Besides, why are you egging on Binding when DJ is the one killing you? The new iteration of DJ was toxic when it was unblockable and it is still toxic even when it is blockable. It just deals so much damage for a ranged skill. The original DJ was better and the only problem with it was the kneel requirement. > > > > after few tries i managed to pull it out with 80% of succes. the key is to press ur buttons as fast as possible :> > > You're doing it wrong. You're not suppose to use more than 0 brain cells. Which means, a person in a coma can do it better than you. yeah listen to this guy, you need the exact timing, think before pressing your skillful dodge to get stealth to do it correctly, I recommend to use SA so you can stay more time in stealth and plan your 200 IQ oneshot carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. if you mark before binding shadows, then at least put a skirmishers shot before DJ for a 3 malice DJ. else first binding shadows, then mark and DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > if you mark before binding shadows, then at least put a skirmishers shot before DJ for a 3 malice DJ. else first binding shadows, then mark and DJ. > Sure do whatever you want. Cook breakfast, go on a date. Either way you just gotta smash your face on a couple keys and you kill something before they can react to it. Not saying this doesn't happen with other professions. But you get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > if you mark before binding shadows, then at least put a skirmishers shot before DJ for a 3 malice DJ. else first binding shadows, then mark and DJ. > > > > Sure do whatever you want. Cook breakfast, go on a date. Either way you just gotta smash your face on a couple keys and you kill something before they can react to it. Not saying this doesn't happen with other professions. But you get the point. how many buttons should i press to kill another player for it to feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > > if you mark before binding shadows, then at least put a skirmishers shot before DJ for a 3 malice DJ. else first binding shadows, then mark and DJ. > > > > > > > Sure do whatever you want. Cook breakfast, go on a date. Either way you just gotta smash your face on a couple keys and you kill something before they can react to it. Not saying this doesn't happen with other professions. But you get the point. > > how many buttons should i press to kill another player for it to feel better? After you see them give them a ten second head start. Like the predator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > > > if you mark before binding shadows, then at least put a skirmishers shot before DJ for a 3 malice DJ. else first binding shadows, then mark and DJ. > > > > > > > > > > Sure do whatever you want. Cook breakfast, go on a date. Either way you just gotta smash your face on a couple keys and you kill something before they can react to it. Not saying this doesn't happen with other professions. But you get the point. > > > > how many buttons should i press to kill another player for it to feel better? > > After you see them give them a ten second head start. Like the predator. i do, however they do not see me duing those 10 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. > > Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. > > I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. 1500 range ;) Complaints about CnD only ever had merit before revealed was added to the game because it could be spammed to stay in stealth + dealing damage + initiative refunding via the old SA and CS traits that gave initiative whenever gaining stealth + whenever you crit, but those traits haven't been around for years lol. Anyone claiming CnD, especially now with the sheer amount of hit negation in the game, is even remotely decent as a skill is either terrible and/or deluded. But I mean... I guess given the state of the game we're in it'd make sense the only people really left playing seriously are of that caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > > > > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > > > > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. > > > > Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. > > > > I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > 1500 range ;) > > Complaints about CnD only ever had merit before revealed was added to the game because it could be spammed to stay in stealth + dealing damage + initiative refunding via the old SA and CS traits that gave initiative whenever gaining stealth + whenever you crit, but those traits haven't been around for years lol. Anyone claiming CnD, especially now with the sheer amount of hit negation in the game, is even remotely decent as a skill is either terrible and/or deluded. > > But I mean... I guess given the state of the game we're in it'd make sense the only people really left playing seriously are of that caliber. I believe that Binding shadow is 1200 range which is why I said 1200. You are correct 1500 is the range of DJ and Mark etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > > > > if you mark before binding shadows, then at least put a skirmishers shot before DJ for a 3 malice DJ. else first binding shadows, then mark and DJ. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure do whatever you want. Cook breakfast, go on a date. Either way you just gotta smash your face on a couple keys and you kill something before they can react to it. Not saying this doesn't happen with other professions. But you get the point. > > > > > > how many buttons should i press to kill another player for it to feel better? > > > > After you see them give them a ten second head start. Like the predator. > > i do, however they do not see me duing those 10 seconds. You are RPing the predator correctly then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 > @"syszery.1592" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"syszery.1592" said: > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > Binding Shadow can actually be stopped. And it requires line of sight. If the player recognizes the animation on the de- they can outright avoid it with a dodge, line of sight, or aegis. As it stands theres no other tell which is actually a problem. The opponent should have a clear indication that hes about to go down so he has a chance. It does not need to be for the full duration. But a quick animation of a gust of shadow magic swarming the target at the last second should be enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > Basilisk venom is completely unblockable, does not get expended if the target dodges, and can be used at all ranges as long as you deal power damage. It even works with DE mark/mug combo. Previously it was utterly useless. Now its one of the thiefs strongest utilities. As its one of two options a thief has to break through a targets defense. **The other being S/d which is not a popular weapon set for some pretty good reasons.** > > > > > > > > The basilisk venom also has venom share, which is a critical property in PvP and PvE. A roaming thief can actually dive in, pop basilisk venom, and spontaneously give his group a huge advantage in a single second. More so if they went aupport build with leeching venoms. > > > > > > Ehm, are we playing the same game? > > > > It's accurate. S/D is popular for Core, not for DE. You just can't replace the synergy of DA/Acr/Trick when using S/D. You just can't. > > I know; S/D is meta in sPvP and very common in WvW. I was just wondering if the other guy who claimed it "is not a popular weapon set for some pretty good reasons" is actually serious -- but maybe he meant PvE... > > Edit: Ok, I got your point. You mean he is referring to S/D as weapons set for Deadeyes? Yes, then he is right although it can be situationally good... But it is really uncommon :dizzy: It's not popular on DE. I figured we could assume this is in reference to the DE, since Binding Shadow is the topic. I should have made this distinction a bit more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureskullz.7536 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > I think the message is clear. > Play Deadeye. Sums the whole point of an expansion lmfao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > > > > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > > > > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. > > > > Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. > > > > I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > 1500 range ;) > > Complaints about CnD only ever had merit before revealed was added to the game because it could be spammed to stay in stealth + dealing damage + initiative refunding via the old SA and CS traits that gave initiative whenever gaining stealth + whenever you crit, but those traits haven't been around for years lol. Anyone claiming CnD, especially now with the sheer amount of hit negation in the game, is even remotely decent as a skill is either terrible and/or deluded. > > But I mean... I guess given the state of the game we're in it'd make sense the only people really left playing seriously are of that caliber. The suggestion was, _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ as if it's going to solve the problem. The reference to CnD has nothing to do with anything that's being discussed here, rather to prove that if I can use CnD from stealth to deal dmg then go back in stealth, I can easily stealth, use Binding Shadows out of stealth, then go back in stealth in a split seconds. The point is, if you can pull it off with CnD, making Binding Shadows only available when out of stealth does nothing to address the issue brought up in this thread. Another point I made that is completely ignored is that, the problem is DJ's damage not Binding Shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > > > > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > > > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > > > > > > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > > > > > > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. > > > > > > Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. > > > > > > I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. > > > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > > > 1500 range ;) > > > > Complaints about CnD only ever had merit before revealed was added to the game because it could be spammed to stay in stealth + dealing damage + initiative refunding via the old SA and CS traits that gave initiative whenever gaining stealth + whenever you crit, but those traits haven't been around for years lol. Anyone claiming CnD, especially now with the sheer amount of hit negation in the game, is even remotely decent as a skill is either terrible and/or deluded. > > > > But I mean... I guess given the state of the game we're in it'd make sense the only people really left playing seriously are of that caliber. > > The suggestion was, _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ as if it's going to solve the problem. The reference to CnD has nothing to do with anything that's being discussed here, rather to prove that if I can use CnD from stealth to deal dmg then go back in stealth, I can easily stealth, use Binding Shadows out of stealth, then go back in stealth in a split seconds. The point is, if you can pull it off with CnD, making Binding Shadows only available when out of stealth does nothing to address the issue brought up in this thread. > > Another point I made that is completely ignored is that, the problem is DJ's damage not Binding Shadows. The difference is if you can chain CnD on someone endlessly and not die they're either a blithering idiot or literally AFK. The notion here isn't the damage lol. Very few people actually care about DJ because it has substantial counterplay, and MBS is generally the bigger damage threat, anyways. Binding Shadow is just BV++ because it does basically three utility skill's worth of stuff for setup in one skill which people think is absurd for a normal utility on a lower cooldown. But I know you're super happy with how DE came out, think it's well-designed, and want nothing about it to change, so there's little sense in arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 LoL some people actually have problems dealing with binding shadow? That skill is literally useless in any serious competetive pvp scenario, equipping it turns you into a one trick pony. If the enemy has a stunbreak/has passive lifesavers/is a mirage/blocks/dodges it, you're over. You've sacrificed an important skillslot that would come really handy now that the enemy is alerted to your presence and your burst has failed. Not to mention, making the next attack of 5 people unblockable AND inflict the strongers CC this game has is just objectively stronger, BS is hardly on the level of other thief elites. Removeing revealed, 4+ second evadeframe, instantly killing someone without a downed phase... those effects are more desireable. Actually I wouldn't care if you got the skill nerfed or turned into an elite, it's already trash... so go ahead and make noise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > LoL some people actually have problems dealing with binding shadow? That skill is literally useless in any serious competetive pvp scenario, equipping it turns you into a one trick pony. If the enemy has a stunbreak/has passive lifesavers/is a mirage/blocks/dodges it, you're over. You've sacrificed an important skillslot that would come really handy now that the enemy is alerted to your presence and your burst has failed. > > Not to mention, making the next attack of 5 people unblockable AND inflict the strongers CC this game has is just objectively stronger, BS is hardly on the level of other thief elites. Removeing revealed, 4+ second evadeframe, instantly killing someone without a downed phase... those effects are more desireable. > Actually I wouldn't care if you got the skill nerfed or turned into an elite, it's already trash... so go ahead and make noise! What? You know what BS does right? Marked targets get knocked down which means no skill usage of any type for a short duration. Plus immobilize. It is literally a BV on steroids that has no tell at all if you are stealthed. Also seeing as it has a 1200 range the enemy won't know you are there. If you are +1 they are an easy kill 100%. It is literally better than every elite other than Dagger Storm. If you have a weed supplier hit me up with their contact info because they must have some good green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > > > > > > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > > > > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > > > > > > > > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. > > > > > > > > Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. > > > > > > > > I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. > > > > > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > > > > > 1500 range ;) > > > > > > Complaints about CnD only ever had merit before revealed was added to the game because it could be spammed to stay in stealth + dealing damage + initiative refunding via the old SA and CS traits that gave initiative whenever gaining stealth + whenever you crit, but those traits haven't been around for years lol. Anyone claiming CnD, especially now with the sheer amount of hit negation in the game, is even remotely decent as a skill is either terrible and/or deluded. > > > > > > But I mean... I guess given the state of the game we're in it'd make sense the only people really left playing seriously are of that caliber. > > > > The suggestion was, _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ as if it's going to solve the problem. The reference to CnD has nothing to do with anything that's being discussed here, rather to prove that if I can use CnD from stealth to deal dmg then go back in stealth, I can easily stealth, use Binding Shadows out of stealth, then go back in stealth in a split seconds. The point is, if you can pull it off with CnD, making Binding Shadows only available when out of stealth does nothing to address the issue brought up in this thread. > > > > Another point I made that is completely ignored is that, the problem is DJ's damage not Binding Shadows. > > The difference is if you can chain CnD on someone endlessly and not die they're either a blithering idiot or literally AFK. > That was not the point I made. Chaining CnD for the purpose of re-stealthing, not for the purpose of chaining it endlessly. > The notion here isn't the damage lol. Very few people actually care about DJ because it has substantial counterplay, and MBS is generally the bigger damage threat, anyways. Binding Shadow is just BV++ because it does basically three utility skill's worth of stuff for setup in one skill which people think is absurd for a normal utility on a lower cooldown. > Sorry, but I don't see it that way. BV is lacking for an Elite skill. It always been lacking and the only reason people take it is because there were no other choice. Now, Dagger Storm threatens that Elite slot. Venoms were always been crappy skills. > But I know you're super happy with how DE came out, think it's well-designed, and want nothing about it to change, so there's little sense in arguing. lol, talk about reading comprehension problem. I have always complained about how clunky DE is without Steal. I have also complained about how clunky Kneel is. I have also complained about why there is no Cantrip CDR trait. I've also hated Rifle. So the idea that I am "super happy" about DE is very dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > > > > > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > > > > > > > > > > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. > > > > > > > > > > Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. > > > > > > > > > > I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. > > > > > > > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > > > > > > > 1500 range ;) > > > > > > > > Complaints about CnD only ever had merit before revealed was added to the game because it could be spammed to stay in stealth + dealing damage + initiative refunding via the old SA and CS traits that gave initiative whenever gaining stealth + whenever you crit, but those traits haven't been around for years lol. Anyone claiming CnD, especially now with the sheer amount of hit negation in the game, is even remotely decent as a skill is either terrible and/or deluded. > > > > > > > > But I mean... I guess given the state of the game we're in it'd make sense the only people really left playing seriously are of that caliber. > > > > > > The suggestion was, _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ as if it's going to solve the problem. The reference to CnD has nothing to do with anything that's being discussed here, rather to prove that if I can use CnD from stealth to deal dmg then go back in stealth, I can easily stealth, use Binding Shadows out of stealth, then go back in stealth in a split seconds. The point is, if you can pull it off with CnD, making Binding Shadows only available when out of stealth does nothing to address the issue brought up in this thread. > > > > > > Another point I made that is completely ignored is that, the problem is DJ's damage not Binding Shadows. > > > > The difference is if you can chain CnD on someone endlessly and not die they're either a blithering idiot or literally AFK. > > > > That was not the point I made. Chaining CnD for the purpose of re-stealthing, not for the purpose of chaining it endlessly. > Your post was meaningless and off-point and inaccurate. Chaining CnD still requires the skill to be used while the thief is in stealth. It works by buffering the precast animation to land precisely as stealth is expiring so that the stealth effect, which has a slight lag on ending, "ends" from the first cast after becoming invisible during the second cast. The important part here is buffering the cast time. If something is disabled outright while in stealth, it cannot be buffered while in stealth, thus, forcing the thief to be visible for the period of its full cast. > > The notion here isn't the damage lol. Very few people actually care about DJ because it has substantial counterplay, and MBS is generally the bigger damage threat, anyways. Binding Shadow is just BV++ because it does basically three utility skill's worth of stuff for setup in one skill which people think is absurd for a normal utility on a lower cooldown. > > > > Sorry, but I don't see it that way. BV is lacking for an Elite skill. It always been lacking and the only reason people take it is because there were no other choice. Now, Dagger Storm threatens that Elite slot. Venoms were always been crappy skills. > BV is and historically always has been a great utility and I can't fathom any possible reason why anyone would claim otherwise. If your qualm is "but other professions and powercreep!" that's a whole other problem unrelated to BV on its own, and iss a logical fallacy. An unblockable stunning attack that becomes part of an attack (and thus can be applied on the fastest, hardest-hitting, and generally most-difficult-to-negate attacks with fantastic synergy with Improv thanks to venoms not being a dominant util type (which is great on core thief since it has a higher probability of triggering due to running fewer util types) which can be precasted OOC, in stealth, etc. which has its effect also last for 75% of its base duration while ticking on cooldown is very strong. > > But I know you're super happy with how DE came out, think it's well-designed, and want nothing about it to change, so there's little sense in arguing. > > lol, talk about reading comprehension problem. I have always complained about how clunky DE is without Steal. I have also complained about how clunky Kneel is. I have also complained about why there is no Cantrip CDR trait. I've also hated Rifle. So the idea that I am "super happy" about DE is very dishonest. That's funny, because there's a link in my signature referencing some of your past posts which downright refused an extremely fluid concept on the basis it was built around being visible while enabling counterplay and helping promote more aggressive playstyles for the thief. I see a trend of being resistant to being visible, which is ironically, all of the source of complaints about DE from virtually every angle today, including those from most thief mains. You're only unhappy with the actually balanced parts of DE lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said: > > > > > > > > lmao why do i waste my time with these people, it's useless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "It requires serious planning and timing to execute the perfect shot" HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHH omg im dying, good rp sir that got me. > > > > > > > > freaking rpers man, you guys are too good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ is made by someone who uses 0 brain cells. Because ever since release, Thief has been chaining CnD, which should have given you a clue that activating skills out stealth will not do anything significant and that your "brilliant" idea is anything but. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yes, please do us all a favor, don't bother wasting your time. A discussion is useless if you're only going to be dishonest. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chaining CnD was never really a thing unless your target was bad at the game. People didn't just stand around and let you CnD. Especially not remotely recently. But I mean you are trying to compare a skill that actually costs initiative that needs to hit, and be cast out of stealth. To DE which can literally stealth for free(endurance cost is meaningless) and not break stealth during their setup until BS hits in which your target is already dead so revealed is meaningless. Like. Oh this is all from 1200 range as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know LoS was brought up but BS only needs LoS to activate so literally 0 IQ needed to do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dodge for stealth. Mark target. BS. DJ. Like. You could literally buy an MMO mouse and just rub your thumb across it and kill someone. > > > > > > > > > > 1500 range ;) > > > > > > > > > > Complaints about CnD only ever had merit before revealed was added to the game because it could be spammed to stay in stealth + dealing damage + initiative refunding via the old SA and CS traits that gave initiative whenever gaining stealth + whenever you crit, but those traits haven't been around for years lol. Anyone claiming CnD, especially now with the sheer amount of hit negation in the game, is even remotely decent as a skill is either terrible and/or deluded. > > > > > > > > > > But I mean... I guess given the state of the game we're in it'd make sense the only people really left playing seriously are of that caliber. > > > > > > > > The suggestion was, _"make it only available when you are out of stealth"_ as if it's going to solve the problem. The reference to CnD has nothing to do with anything that's being discussed here, rather to prove that if I can use CnD from stealth to deal dmg then go back in stealth, I can easily stealth, use Binding Shadows out of stealth, then go back in stealth in a split seconds. The point is, if you can pull it off with CnD, making Binding Shadows only available when out of stealth does nothing to address the issue brought up in this thread. > > > > > > > > Another point I made that is completely ignored is that, the problem is DJ's damage not Binding Shadows. > > > > > > The difference is if you can chain CnD on someone endlessly and not die they're either a blithering idiot or literally AFK. > > > > > > > That was not the point I made. Chaining CnD for the purpose of re-stealthing, not for the purpose of chaining it endlessly. > > > Your post was meaningless and off-point and inaccurate. Chaining CnD still requires the skill to be used while the thief is in stealth. It works by buffering the precast animation to land precisely as stealth is expiring so that the stealth effect, which has a slight lag on ending, "ends" from the first cast after becoming invisible during the second cast. The important part here is buffering the cast time. If something is disabled outright while in stealth, it cannot be buffered while in stealth, thus, forcing the thief to be visible for the period of its full cast. > I'm not talking about continuous stealth as I have stated very clearly, "I can easily stealth, **use Binding Shadows out of stealth**, then go back in stealth in a split seconds" -- I never said anything about pre-casting CnD in stealth. Casting Binding Shadows from stealth will Revealed you since it deals damage so what's the point of that? You're arguing against a position that I never made. > > > The notion here isn't the damage lol. Very few people actually care about DJ because it has substantial counterplay, and MBS is generally the bigger damage threat, anyways. Binding Shadow is just BV++ because it does basically three utility skill's worth of stuff for setup in one skill which people think is absurd for a normal utility on a lower cooldown. > > > > > > > Sorry, but I don't see it that way. BV is lacking for an Elite skill. It always been lacking and the only reason people take it is because there were no other choice. Now, Dagger Storm threatens that Elite slot. Venoms were always been crappy skills. > > > BV is and historically always has been a great utility and I can't fathom any possible reason why anyone would claim otherwise. If your qualm is "but other professions and powercreep!" that's a whole other problem unrelated to BV on its own, and iss a logical fallacy. An unblockable stunning attack that becomes part of an attack (and thus can be applied on the fastest, hardest-hitting, and generally most-difficult-to-negate attacks with fantastic synergy with Improv thanks to venoms not being a dominant util type (which is great on core thief since it has a higher probability of triggering due to running fewer util types) which can be precasted OOC, in stealth, etc. which has its effect also last for 75% of its base duration while ticking on cooldown is very strong. > I don't agree with that opinion. Historically, there is no other Elite skill other than BV that take that slot. Other choices are historically worst than BV. That's like calling sewage water is the best water you have ever drank just because you have not tasted what clean water tastes like, but I'll leave you to your opinion. > > > But I know you're super happy with how DE came out, think it's well-designed, and want nothing about it to change, so there's little sense in arguing. > > > > lol, talk about reading comprehension problem. I have always complained about how clunky DE is without Steal. I have also complained about how clunky Kneel is. I have also complained about why there is no Cantrip CDR trait. I've also hated Rifle. So the idea that I am "super happy" about DE is very dishonest. > > That's funny, because there's a link in my signature referencing some of your past posts which downright refused an extremely fluid concept on the basis it was built around being visible while enabling counterplay and helping promote more aggressive playstyles for the thief. I see a trend of being resistant to being visible, which is ironically, all of the source of complaints about DE from virtually every angle today, including those from most thief mains. > I never like Elite specs ideas that is built around Revealed. That was what your concept was proposing. Revealed and Exhaustion are two things added to the Thief that I would never approve of. I have accepted Deadeye since there's nothing I can do about it, but that doesn't mean I am "super happy" with it. > You're only unhappy with the actually balanced parts of DE lol. Yet another dishonesty even after I've listed what I hated about DE. I'm not the one who cries about balance. My main concern is playability. If something is not fun, I don't play it. Period. Just to get you up to date of what I'm using now. Ever since they've changed Swindler's, I've been using Core S/D. Without Steal, DE is unplayable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > blablabla > > What? You know what BS does right? Marked targets get knocked down which means no skill usage of any type for a short duration. Oh. I was unaware that stunbreakers cannot be used while knocked down. Thanks for enlightening me. > Plus immobilize. I was also unaware of condi removal not working on immobilise. Also there are definitely no skills which break stun AND remove condis at the same time. Or... you know, immunities with no casting time or even passive versions of those. Endure Pain, Stone signet, Instant Reflexes, Elixir S... if we had any skills like those... but we don't! > If you are +1 they are an easy kill 100%. You mean if you +1 a fight you get to kill someone? Thats outrageous! Builds that can do that need a nerf ASAP. > It is literally better than every elite other than Dagger Storm. If you have a weed supplier hit me up with their contact info because they must have some good green. Man I wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > blablabla > > > > What? You know what BS does right? Marked targets get knocked down which means no skill usage of any type for a short duration. > > Oh. I was unaware that stunbreakers cannot be used while knocked down. Thanks for enlightening me. > > > Plus immobilize. > > I was also unaware of condi removal not working on immobilise. Also there are definitely no skills which break stun AND remove condis at the same time. Or... you know, immunities with no casting time or even passive versions of those. Endure Pain, Stone signet, Instant Reflexes, Elixir S... if we had any skills like those... but we don't! > > > If you are +1 they are an easy kill 100%. > > You mean if you +1 a fight you get to kill someone? Thats outrageous! Builds that can do that need a nerf ASAP. > > > It is literally better than every elite other than Dagger Storm. If you have a weed supplier hit me up with their contact info because they must have some good green. > > Man I wish... For some reason I feel you can still shadowstep while knocked down but you still are down for the duration. Or the few times I think that happened I just so happened to shadow step and get knocked down simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now